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only1doug
2008-08-03, 05:36 PM
hi,

I'm playing a Chaotic Neutral dragonwrought kobold ftr1 / sorcerer6 / dragonhearted mage 6 and i want to pick up dracolexi, but i'm short by 4 ranks of perform.
Int is a dump stat and perform is cross class, as far as i can see the only way i can swing it is if i dip into a class with at least 4+ int bonus skill/lvl and perform as a class skill.
So my base class choices are bard, rogue or Monk (chaotic)
anyone able to suggest any other ways of getting it (no feats available)

Unless i get any other suggestions i'll dip into bard for 1 lvl, but my GM doesn't think bard suits the character (i can see it myself, he likes talking about the glory of dragons)
Clericy based solutions would be very acceptable as he is a devoted follower of Aasterinian and fighty based solutions would also work as he often substitutes for the tank (high AC + good concentrate skill + wings of flurry = awesome).

Item slots free are arms and face if that makes any difference.

Doug

BizzaroStormy
2008-08-03, 05:40 PM
Only thing I could think of is either asking if you're DM will allow you to reallocate skill points or just ignore the requirement altogether.

TeeEl
2008-08-03, 05:42 PM
Is the character build up to this point finalized? If you choose a battle dragon for your draconic heritage you get Perform as a sorcerer class skill.

Kyeudo
2008-08-03, 05:49 PM
You can always trade a feat for 5 skill points. There's a feat called Open Minded in the psionic section of the SRD. That can help with your skill trouble if feats arn't as tight.

JellyPooga
2008-08-03, 06:27 PM
He's a devoted follower of Aasterinian, the Trickster God of Dragons and your DM is worried about Bard not fitting the character concept? Hell, I'm not sure why you haven't got levels in Bard or Rogue already!!

I can't actually think of anything that will crowbar those skill points for you easily myself, but you have to consider why you're going in for Dracolexi....from the sounds of things, this character is a Fighting Spellcaster...wades in with magic to make up for physical shortcomings...am I right? If that is the case, then aside from mechanical reasons, ask yourself why your character is going into a scholars PrC?

Dracolexi is a PrC, from a mechanical standpoint, for those that specialise in Power Word and Language based spells...generally those that aren't of particular use to the Combat Caster.

From the RP standpoint, it's almost the perfect Adventuring Scholars PrC. The linguist that wants to see the world ends up as a Dracolexi. The bookish bard that is more interested in ancient tales than piping a merry tune ends up a Dracolexi. The aggressive Dragonwrought Kobold sorcerer, focused on releasing the power locked within his Draconic heritage (i.e. Dragonheart Mage) generally won't be looking at Dracolexi unless he's been thinking of it for a while or studies for it (read: has already spent cross-class skill points to qualify for it or over the next couple of levels spends cross-class skill points to qualify).

In short I guess I'm asking you to ask yourself why and how your character is going to go from Fighter/Sorcerer/Dragonheart to Dracolexi in as a short time-scale as you seem to wish...if you can come up with something good, bearing in mind that your character hasn't been aiming at it in his career so far, then start thinking about crow-barring those skills...otherwise, my advice is to stick at the Dragonheart Mage for another couple of levels and pick up that Perform requirement cross-class...though I personally don't think it's worth you trying for Dracolexi at all; by the time you do qualify for it, you're not going to get any of the best features of the PrC anyway (at least before Epic levels)...if you're that set on playing a Dracolexi, retire your current character and stat a new one that is better focused for it.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-03, 11:33 PM
If he isn't going to use the Koblold ritual to advance spellcasting. You could do it with the Variant Spellcaster class by chosing perform as a class skill instead of Sorcerer and pick up an extra feat at VS-5.

You can do it with a Paizo Sorcerer (slightly tweaked base class including skills). http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards Free download Alpha 3pdf release.

DMG II Apprentice Feat "Entertainer" associated skills Diplomacy and Performer.

Other feats should provide the skill also.

Maybe a level dip into the Variant Rogue - 1 instead of Fighter - 1 for lots of skills and skill points along with a bonus feat instead of +1D6 Sneak Attack (6 base hit points vice 10 base hit points and lose the +1 BAB).

only1doug
2008-08-04, 03:39 AM
He's already in play. dragon type is set to Brass.


yup he's a fighting caster, i have been building toward Dracolexi for awhile but had other interim goals (ie high concentration check to make a DC20 roll without failure chance) that sadly focused all my skill points (2/lvl) into one skill. i can meet the other requirements of dracolexi but 4 ranks of a cross class skill at 2/lvl is just too slow.

GM is confident that we'll eventually go epic (if we survive) so i'm not too worried about cross classing, i guess i'll just strengthen the trickery aspect a bit to encourage bard. (the GM has no objection to rogue but i'd prefer bard, or find another route)

The reason i like dracolexi is mainly the voice in silence, staying in a d6 hit die caster class is also good.

my next level is DHM6 (for D8's firebreathing) then rogue or bard for perform (unless you find me another route) then dracolexi for more and better words and eventually Voice in silence.

Varient rogue, sounds good, i don't like rogue because we have enough people with backstab damage.... where are the varients covered please?


party at the moment:
Aasamir Cleric 6 / warpriest 4
Tiefling rogue 7 / swashbuckler 4
halfling sorcerer 10 / spellthief 2
Dwarf fighter 5 / stonelord 4 / paladin 2
finhead saurial scout 7 killed in first attack of combat last night, player decided not to take rez
elf druid 8 / warshaper 4
ftr1 / sorcerer 6 (*7) /dragonhearted Mage 5 *bonus sorcerer level from greater kobold ritual, does not increase character level or BAB / Saves (GM ruling)

Peoples attendance is unpredictable so everyone has to be ready to fill in (if rogue is absent then he just auto spots traps ie takes a 10 on search for result of 25) and we try not to include absentee's in combat unless its a known boss fight.

spell point system + wound / vitality point system, its easy to die but magic is flexible.

Doug

JellyPooga
2008-08-04, 07:46 AM
Okey-pokey then...if you have been working towards it after all, then crowbars are needed (I guess it's one of the reasons I rarely have an Int less than 12 and play classes with high skill points...)

If you're going into Epic levels, then I'll retract my statement about not taking Bard. In fact, seeing as you already have a Sorcerer in the party, I would be tempted to advance Bard casting with Dracolexi rather than Sorcerer (perhaps taking out 1 level to put into Sorc). By the end of Dracolexi you would be cating as a Level 13-14 Sorcerer and a Level 10-11 Bard...enough to give you 4th level Bard spells (Cure Critical Wounds, Freedom of Movement, Zone of Silence, etc.) and 6th or 7th level Sorcerer spells (Greater Teleport, Limited Wish, Spell Turning, etc.)...sure, you're not exactly pulling the biggest baddest spells in the game, but you are chucking the spells you do have around like they're penny candy!

If you wanted a little advice for post-Dracolexi prograssion...I'd say Sublime Chord to fast track your spellcasting to higher level spells...just my advice though.

only1doug
2008-08-04, 08:37 AM
Hmm, well the other sorcerer is gonna push spellthief a bit, i was planning on hitting mainly sorcerer caster levels with the PRC's and when i finish dracolexi going back to DHM.

My intention was to only dip into bard caster levels once (for Cure light) before sorcerer 20.

i have a ring of Arcane might (i think thats the name) that grants +1 CL on all arcane spells (other sorcerer hasn't been around since we found it so its mine! at least until he can be bothered to turn up and argue for it)

Spell like abilities:
3/day Identify,
3/day prestidigitate (could be swapped for any spell of up to 4th level but that spell would be removed from my known list, would reduce available spellpoints)

Notable spells:
Power word Pain (RotD version), shield, magic missile, Bless (as a sorcerer spell), arcane fusion (complete mage), Wings of flurry, Heart of earth, heart of air, heart of fire, heart of water, Greater mighty Wallop, Crown of might, Magic of the dragonheart, fly, resist elements.

Future casting:
i'd like mordenkainen's Magnificent mansion and tensors transformation.
yeah TT normally sucks but i don't read it as blocking the SU: dragon breath
(sacrifice a spell slot to breath fire) so turn on TT, wade into middle of fray, fry the suckers.

Hmm, must get around to posting full character online somewhere.

Party druid has standing orders that if my character dies then re-incarnate me instead of allowing the cleric to rez me. heh, if i came back as a bugbear i'd get effectively +12 to my physical stats, at no penalty to mental stats, +2 increase to natural armour.

Ok, so i'd need to retrain 3 feats and would lose my wings.

Note: fighter level was to gain access to alternate class ability Dragonscale husk (which lists no spell failure chance for 6 AC) now if only i could get my caster levels to count as levels that give the heavy armour feat...

Note: i'd have a better int score if i'd cheesed the Dragonwrought Kobold angle- mine is only 12 years old, instead of 122.
Age would have removed my wisdom penalty too.

raw (unbuffed) stats
str 10
dex 14
con 14
int 10
wis 9
cha 20


Doug

Telonius
2008-08-04, 09:12 AM
Marshal also has Perform as a class skill. (So do Aristocrat and Expert, but I think we can ignore those).

If you qualify for Exemplar, that's another potential one-level dip, though you might do better with Rogue.

only1doug
2008-08-04, 10:42 AM
Marshal also has Perform as a class skill. (So do Aristocrat and Expert, but I think we can ignore those).

If you qualify for Exemplar, that's another potential one-level dip, though you might do better with Rogue.

ROFL if this Minatures rules Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) is accurate to the 3.5 version then if my GM lets me dip to 1 lvl of marshal then we win DnD.

pick one of:
Minor Aura: A minor aura lets allies add the marshal's Charisma bonus (if any)(+6) to certain rolls.

* Accurate Strike: Bonus on rolls made to confirm critical hits. (crits can insta kill under rules varient we are using, +6 to confirm = win)
* Art of War: Bonus on disarm, trip, bull rush, and sunder attempts.
* Demand Fortitude: Bonus on Fortitude saves.
* Determined Caster: Bonus on rolls to overcome spell resistance.
* Force of Will: Bonus on Will saves. (nice)
* Master of Opportunity: Bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity.
* Master of Tactics: Bonus on damage rolls when flanking. (say ouch)
* Motivate Charisma: Bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks.
* Motivate Constitution: Bonus on Constitution checks and Constitution-based skill checks.
* Motivate Dexterity: Bonus on Dexterity checks, Dexterity-based skill checks, and initiative checks.
* Motivate Intelligence: Bonus on Intelligence checks and Intelligence-based skill checks.
* Motivate Strength: Bonus on Strength checks and Strength-based skill checks.
* Motivate Wisdom: Bonus on Wisdom checks and Wisdom-based skill checks.
* Over the Top: Bonus on damage rolls when charging. (meh, tactics is better)
* Watchful Eye: Bonus on Reflex saves. (also a good one)

to effect all allies, permanently (ok, can be broken by certain conditions)

I'll look up marshal when i get home to see how different it is.

Doug

grinner666
2008-08-04, 01:22 PM
Put off taking the PrC for two levels? More levels of Sorcerer will hardly hurt your effectiveness ... :smallsmile:

FinalJustice
2008-08-04, 01:45 PM
Does Cloistered Cleric have Perform as class skill/with domains? If so, can be a good dip. Use divine spell-triggered items, turn undead to boost some divine feats, combined with your high cha, can be cool. If you are hitting epic, once you finish Dracolexi, you can start MT or Dweomercheater.

only1doug
2008-08-04, 03:07 PM
woah, that miniature handbook IS the source of the martial class, Ok I'll ask the GM if he'd prefer me to break his game or play a bard :P

Doug

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-05, 12:39 AM
Varient rogue, sounds good, i don't like rogue because we have enough people with backstab damage.... where are the varients covered please?


party at the moment:
Aasamir Cleric 6 / warpriest 4
Tiefling rogue 7 / swashbuckler 4
halfling sorcerer 10 / spellthief 2
Dwarf fighter 5 / stonelord 4 / paladin 2
finhead saurial scout 7 killed in first attack of combat last night, player decided not to take rez
elf druid 8 / warshaper 4
ftr1 / sorcerer 6 (*7) /dragonhearted Mage 5 *bonus sorcerer level from greater kobold ritual, does not increase character level or BAB / Saves (GM ruling)

Doug

Originally in Unearthed Arcana. The bottom Rogue variant:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue

Rogue
The rogue who favors martial training over stealth and cunning can profit if she chooses her fights carefully.

Gain
Bonus feats (as fighter).

Lose
Sneak attack

only1doug
2008-08-06, 04:30 AM
I'd still prefer a Bard Varient, i'm hoping i can satisfy the GM if i come up with a decent varient choice.

an existing Bard Variant is the Fey Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bard)

A rare bard might display a special link to nature and the mysterious world of the fey. Such characters tend to be more aloof and less inspiring than standard bards.

Gain: Animal companion (as druid), nature sense (as druid), resist nature's lure (as druid), wild empathy (as druid).

Lose: Bardic knowledge, inspire courage, inspire competence, inspire greatness, inspire heroics.


so how about Variant Bard- Focused Bard

A rare bard might have an unusual focus on a single subject. Such characters tend to be less knowledgable about the world around them and know almost everything about their focused subject.

Gain: Focus, Focused Knowledge, one track mind.

Focus: a focused bard has to pick a single subject that is his primary interest, this focus can be a creature or monster type, a geographical area, a historical period or anything else that can be agreed with the GM as a NARROW focus of attention.
Focused Knowledge: A focused bard makes bardic knowledge checks like any other bard, if the subject is related to his focus then he gains a +5 bonus to the check, if it is not related to his focus then he suffers a -5 penalty. if it is only partially related to his focus he suffers no penalty but also recieves no bonus.
one track mind: A focused bard is mainly interested in his focused subject, all of his stories, songs, tales etc will be on that subject. Any information the bard imparts will feature the focus in some way.


Lose: Bardic knowledge.


what do you think?


Doug

Darrin
2008-08-07, 10:27 AM
Is the character build up to this point finalized? If you choose a battle dragon for your draconic heritage you get Perform as a sorcerer class skill.

It's not too late to change your Draconic Heritage. For 5000 GP, the Rite of Draconic Affinity (Races of the Dragon p. 59) can switch your heritage to Battle Dragon (from the Draconomicon). This would give you Perform as a class skill.

If your DM allows you to retrain skills... consider Flexible Mind (Dragon #326):
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Flexible_Mind,Dragon
Pick any two skills to be class skills, and a +1 bonus on each.

Ardent Dilletante might also work (Planar Handbook, p. 55). Easy to qualify for (8 ranks in any one skill, five other skills with at least 1 rank), and gets 6 + Int skill points. *ALL* skills are class skills.

No one mentioned Factotum yet?

only1doug
2008-08-07, 11:00 AM
I kind of like the Brass Heritage, i use the key skill (gather information) quite a lot. and i am the best info gatherer in the party by a Looong way (due to Magic of the dragonheart)

Nope, no one mentioned Factotum


Doug

Darrin
2008-08-07, 12:48 PM
I kind of like the Brass Heritage, i use the key skill (gather information) quite a lot. and i am the best info gatherer in the party by a Looong way (due to Magic of the dragonheart)


Hmm. Well, for another 5000 GP, you could switch it back to Brass once you get the Perform ranks you need.