Rich, could we buy an OOTS book as a PDF file?

[tomaO2]

Goblins sells it's books both in paper AND as a PDF file.

I prefer the file, honestly. It's cheaper and immediate gratification for my money. Plus, I'm not sure I want a big book. If one of the prequels sold as a PDF file for somewhere around 5-10 bucks, I would buy it. As it is, I'm interested but not interested enough to buy a paper copy.

[Admiral_Kelly]

...

Words cannot describe how much of an epic fail this idea is.

Okay, I'll try a few. You get comics for free on your computer already for free! The whole point of buying a webcomic in book form is so you can have something tangible (and get nifty bonus material). Can someone explain to me how getting it in PDF format is worth paying for?

[AmberVael]

...

Words cannot describe how much of an epic fail this idea is.

Okay, I'll try a few. You get comics for free on your computer already for free! The whole point of buying a webcomic in book form is so you can have something tangible (and get nifty bonus material). Can someone explain to me how getting it in PDF format is worth paying for?

'cause the Start of Darkness and the Origin of PCs books aren't available online.

[WarriorTribble]

One wonders if Rich doesn't release those two as PDF due to concerns of piracy.

[NerfTW]

One wonders if Rich doesn't release those two as PDF due to concerns of piracy.

I think someone asked this about Start of Darkness and that was a major reason. Face it, a PDF would be distressingly easy to pass around.

[tomaO2]

Ridiculous.

This is a proven idea that has worked in the past. Again, I point to Goblins.

Take a look. (http://comics.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=11897&it=1)

I defy anyone to find any of the short stories that are included as extras in this book. Feel free to look around the website at the other books you can buy as well.

You also forget that there are many comics that you need to subscribe to in order to read. I don't see any piracy issues with them, why would OOTS be different?

Also, it's not just the small potatoes doing this, Marvel (http://www.marvel.com/digitalcomics/) has taken up the digital comic, pay-as-you-go model.

On top of that, we all know that the paper world is going to the digital. Newspapers are going digital, Magazines are going digital, heck, you can't even buy TV Guide on paper anymore. That was something I got for years and was very sad to find they had discontinued but the point is, the paper world is coming to us. To ignore the paying benefits from selling digital PDF files in favor of making most of your money through paper is going backwards to the trend that's developing.

The risk of piracy is low. About as low as a person taking a scanner to an OOTS book and publishing it online (which is not overly difficult).

Also, I personally have no particular interest in buying a graphic novel for something I can hold in my hands. Regular books, yes. Comics? I prefer reading them online. I'm sure many others feel the same.

In addition, there are reasons to download to your computer instead of just reading online. For instance, on your computer, you don't have to worry about load times or internet connections. Plenty of people download PDFs just for that, especially if it was free, even if there was no new content.

One comic that has gone this route is Penny and Aggie (http://www.pennyandaggie.com/pages/ebooks.html) They just PDF their books, it's free to download (for American users) and every download makes them 50 cents.

So as you can see, selling PDF files has plenty of money making potential for the Giant and there doesn't seem to be any downside for him trying it. So why not? Nothing ventured , nothing gained. :)

[Admiral_Kelly]

'cause the Start of Darkness and the Origin of PCs books aren't available online.Point, I had forgotten about those. Still; getting PDFs for the webcomic strips themselves is pretty pointless.

[NerfTW]

Toma, Marvel is not comparable to Giant in the Playground. Marvel has released 40 years of comics on $20 DVDs. They have money and can absorb a loss. A small company cannot.

Further, what works for one person does not work for everyone. The Giant said that the loss of book sales would make the number of book orders too small to print. The price for an actual book would go through the roof.

Print NEWS is going away in favor of online due to the speed issue, but you'd be hardpressed to find people who enjoy reading novels on a computer screen.

And why on earth would anyone BUY a PDF to save on thier computer when they can save the comics themselves for free?

There are several downsides to PDFs, and it's a bit ridiculous to say that you know a company's entire business situation.

[tomaO2]

Point, I had forgotten about those. Still; getting PDFs for the webcomic strips themselves is pretty pointless.

I disagree with that statement but even if it was, your forgetting the author's comments that you could read and, don't forget, some additional pages were added (such as the fight with the silver dragon in Palidan Blues). Jeez man, your talking about a few bucks. What do you expect for that kind of price? The older books would be quite cheap or even free depending on how it was marketed.

[snoopy13a]

Goblins sells it's books both in paper AND as a PDF file.

I prefer the file, honestly. It's cheaper and immediate gratification for my money. Plus, I'm not sure I want a big book. If one of the prequels sold as a PDF file for somewhere around 5-10 bucks, I would buy it. As it is, I'm interested but not interested enough to buy a paper copy.

If they did sell the books as PDF files then it would probably be at the same price as the paper versions. Otherwise, the publisher of the paper versions would be shortchanged.

A comparison can be made to buying wine straight from the winary. Winaries tend to charge the same prices for their wine as do the local wine shops, liquor stores and in states which allow it, grocery stores. This not only doesn't penalize the merchant who sell their produce but it also gives them more profit.

[tomaO2]

Toma, Marvel is not comparable to Giant in the Playground. Marvel has released 40 years of comics on $20 DVDs. They have money and can absorb a loss. A small company cannot.

Marvel wouldn't be doing it if there was no profit. What makes you so sure they are taking a loss on it? In any case, it was just one example to show that many people are doing it and that it wasn't just profitable to smaller players.


Further, what works for one person does not work for everyone. The Giant said that the loss of book sales would make the number of book orders too small to print. The price for an actual book would go through the roof.

So let me get this straight. Your arguing that if the preequal books were sold as PDF files there would not be enough books to make a printing order? Then I guess the Giant will not be able to sell any of his new book, "War and XPs" because that is all online. Except it's already worked for the previous 2 dispite that, right? So having a free online comic hasn't taken away from selling the book for the Giant specificilly, has it? Why be so positive that it will in the future?

If this is a genuine worry, then try selling just the first preequal book in PDF. It's already been though several runs and the risk, if any, would be smallest on that as the selling of copies is already lower.


Print NEWS is going away in favor of online due to the speed issue, but you'd be hardpressed to find people who enjoy reading novels on a computer screen.


Already said that normal novels are not popular (although the market is growing) but GRAPHIC novels likely are. They are for me. I enjoy reading comic online rather then off. Plus I DO read more online then off. I read a good 2 dozen webcomics regularity but rarely read paper. I'd imagine you and most of the readers here are the same. Comics have come of age for the internet. It has renewed and invigorated the genre.

And why on earth would anyone BUY a PDF to save on thier computer when they can save the comics themselves for free?

Already argued this. Better question. If you really love the comic, why not? At worst you can look at it as a donation. It's only a few bucks.


There are several downsides to PDFs, and it's a bit ridiculous to say that you know a company's entire business situation.

Please enlighten me as to what they are. I'm interested to know. As far as I can see, piracy is overblown, and online does not eat into offline sales. In fact, an online presence seems to help overall. I'm not aware of any other downsides. That's just my own inexpert opinion though. I'm sure your fully informed, professional like opinion will enlighten and educate us all.



If they did sell the books as PDF files then it would probably be at the same price as the paper versions. Otherwise, the publisher of the paper versions would be shortchanged.

A comparison can be made to buying wine straight from the winary. Winaries tend to charge the same prices for their wine as do the local wine shops, liquor stores and in states which allow it, grocery stores. This not only doesn't penalize the merchant who sell their produce but it also gives them more profit.

If? You didn't click on the link I gave, did you?

It's considerably cheaper. Wine is wine. You pay for the same product either way. On the other hand, for comics... While the content is the same online or off, it's still 2 different products. Besides even if online sales DID cut into offline sales... You do know that you get more money for each online sale right?

[dogmac]

I would actually love a pDF purchase of these books.

Basically, because I'm in Australia. I haven't been able to get my hands on these books, mainly because the postage from the US is so expensive. To justify paying $20-30 in postage, I would need to buy all the books at once. I can't afford to buy all the books at once. Hence....

You get the idea.

I have no intention of looking at pirated works. I respect Rich's artistic endeavors far too much for that, but unless I win lotto, it is extremely unlikely I'll be getting my hands on these books (or the Girl Genius ones) any time soon.

[WuanAnselm]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="indigo"]Ridiculous.

*snip*

On top of that, we all know that the paper world is going to the digital. Newspapers are going digital, Magazines are going digital, heck, you can't even buy TV Guide on paper anymore. That was something I got for years and was very sad to find they had discontinued but the point is, the paper world is coming to us. To ignore the paying benefits from selling digital PDF files in favor of making most of your money through paper is going backwards to the trend that's developing.

The risk of piracy is low. About as low as a person taking a scanner to an OOTS book and publishing it online (which is not overly difficult).

Now this is ridiculous, Scanning each page of every book and then uploading it somewhere can take a while, uploading a bunch of PDF files will just take seconds, It's ridiculously easy to pirate digital propriety, If you ever checked a torrent site it will have loads of stuff like music, full movies, video games, and yes, even books, all freely available to download, Risk of piracy is low? Companies loose millions each year because of piracy. As someone else said big companies can take those losses, but Rich's is only a small business.

A TV guide and stuff like that isn't exactly valuable, hell for the most part on-line mags and things like that are already free to begin with, but on the other hand, a comic or a book, is something that takes a lot of time and effort to make and is definitively something you wouldn't want to risk like this.

If somehow Rich decided to release the books for on-line purchase I certainly wouldn't complain, I don't think they will ever be sold in my country and buying them digitally is pretty much the only way I could get a hold of them short of going to the USA, but if he never does I will understand and even agree with his reasons.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Regarding "Goblins, Life Through Their Eyes"


If they did sell the books as PDF files then it would probably be at the same price as the paper versions. Otherwise, the publisher of the paper versions would be shortchanged.

A comparison can be made to buying wine straight from the winary. Winaries tend to charge the same prices for their wine as do the local wine shops, liquor stores and in states which allow it, grocery stores. This not only doesn't penalize the merchant who sell their produce but it also gives them more profit.

Actually, no.

The Book version is $24.99, plus S&H. (http://goblinscomic.com/Book1.html)

The eBook version is $4.99 for either book, or both books bundled for $7.99. (http://comics.drivethrustuff.com/index.php?cPath=608&affiliate_id=59640")

Some people (me, for one), are old-fashioned traditionalists, who like having a paper copy to read, especially when I'm on a long flight and a computer battery that's getting a bit elderly. Others like electronic copies, as long as they can transfer them from one computer to another...

Ultimately, Giantitp is Rich's business, and he seems to have a sound business model. His is about the only webcomic without a donation button, advertising, or any other "Spare change? Got any spare change" techniques to boost his revenue stream. The books seem to keep him in skittles and beer, and are always top sellers at both his own and other affiliated sales websites. I kind of think he may know what he's doing. :smallwink:

[theKOT]

This question has been raised afore. Quoth th' Giant: Nevermore!

So, as much as I appreciate the sentiment, this is not something we're interested in. While yes, piracy* is an issue, the more important issue is the cost of printing the books and the large amount of stock that has already been printed. If we were to make an "On the Origin of PCs" PDF, then many people who would pay for the book will instead download the PDF, and we're stuck with a few thousand extra paper copies that no one wants. This would cost us a lot more than the few extra sales a PDF copy would generate over and above paper sales. Especially since we would likely have to mark the PDF cover price down significantly.

Further, it would hurt our ability to put future products into print, because printing costs are significantly reduced as the quantity increases. If we knew that 50% of our sales will end up being PDFs, the reduced quantity printed on each print run would mean we suddenly are paying 60-70% more per copy of the printed book, cutting our revenue from the book sales dramatically. In the long run, we would be unable to offer printed books at all without losing money, and I personally believe in the value of having the work in permanent format.


* If pirates weren't lazy to begin with, they wouldn't resort to piracy, so yes, I think ease of piracy is a valid concern.

Sorry about the bad Poe reference. I'm a little crazy.

[Warren Dew]

I'd be happy if Rich could just figure out how to ship the paper versions without damaging them. Amazon does it, and Rich has got to be at least as smart as Amazon.

[tomaO2]

WuanAnselm, the chances is low for an INCREASE in piracy, is what I meant. By your own admission, it's a huge problem in everything and it doesn't matter if the company makes a digital copy or not. Pirates find a way. Therefore, if it was going to be done it would have been done already.

If it's already been done, then it's not a problem is it? More digital copies are not going to continue to harm us. If it HASN'T been done, then I doubt it will be a problem in the future as long as the Giant's comic remains a niche item. Pirates go after things based on expense and popularity.

Saying something like "because the OOTS books hasn't been pirated yet because they have not been made into a PDF file by the Giant" is something I just can't understand. If pirates want it, they will take it and nothing you will do will stop it. The only way to fight this, is to join it. Take the music industry. They had overpriced CD's that people did not want to pay for one or two good songs. Then piracy took off online. The companies tried and tried to stop piracy and in the end they gave up and sold their songs for a dollar apiece, online. People will pay if they feel the price is reasonable. We WANT to be honest, as a general rule.

Now I could be wrong, perhaps I am, so why don't you go through the bother of trying to track down a PDF file of Goblins or some other niche comic. Innocent until proven guilty, I say. Unlike some people in this thread, I believe that the fast majority of of are not/will not be pirates. People like myself and dogmac, we want to pay but it's just SOO expensive, so cumbersome. It seems unfair to make it that difficult. Perhaps we can just be met halfway sales would soar without cutting into the paper market.

There's a half dozen books out now. Nothing I have read so far seems a good reason not to experiment with at least one volume and see how it goes and remember, EVERYTHING is going digital. That is inarguably the trend. This is the future. Don't fight it, embrace it.

PS. Oh, all right Kot. I'd like to know how why the giant thinks that piracy would run rampant and regular book orders would collapse (where is there evidence that any such thing would happen? Is this just a personal opinion or have we seen such a thing happen?) but surely nothing I say will change his mind.

I really think it would be a good idea though. I have never heard anything to give any base to these fears (and I'm talking about online niche comics specifically) but would love to know if there was.

Grr, some of these books have been out for years. They can't be selling too well anymore. A shut out of even considering the idea like that seems so frikken unfair...

PPS. While people might BUY from pirates because they are lazy, people who pirate in the first place are hard workers. They have to buy the item, copy it, market it and make a profit. I just can't agree with the Giant on that one. Libraries don't harm book sales. The whole statement feels completely counterintuitive and I don't see any examples that making PDF files has hurt any other comic. People want to be good and not steal if you treat them decently, dang it. :smallannoyed:

[WarriorTribble]

The risk of piracy is low. About as low as a person taking a scanner to an OOTS book and publishing it online (which is not overly difficult).I disagree, using a scanner and damaging a physical copy of a book is much more convoluted than sharing a PDF. Heck, I know at least some material on P2P networks got there by sheer accident cause the person in question accidentally shared the entire contents of his harddrive. The porn industry I believe has decent examples. I know three companies, two of them release non-DRMed downloadable material, while they all release DVDs. The one that doesn't release content via download is arguably more popular since it's been around much longer, and have the highest quality, yet only a small fraction of it's works can be found on P2P. The ones that allow downloads on the otherhand, have 90% of their stuff online.

[theKOT]

For the record toma, I wasn't arguing with any of your points or anything. Just trying to answer the questions. I don't really have an opinion here. As long as the G could make a PDF while keeping the print I don't really care.

[tomaO2]

DVDs are usually spread as a single file. It's quite large with hefty download times. Why bother with that when you can just get a bunch of smaller ones? I think the reason has more to do with length and size over other considerations. Again, while pirates are industrious, people that buy from them are lazy. They will take the easier option. Especially when there is so very much choice in the first place.

Point is, that it's not the exact same product. (Or perhaps it's to much of an overflow of similar product? A lot of porn seems interchangable to me.The online content is quite satisfying enough without bothering with non internet companies.) On the other hand, if you had 2 movies that were equally popular and of equal length and the main difference was that one had been allowed to be loaded online and the other had not, I would bet even money that the two would be equally represented on the website because someone would have gone though the trouble to get the non-digital movie online. Pirated copies can be found within days of a movie's release. If the theater itself released a movie online (such as "Dr. Horrible's Sing Along") it would not change the amount of pirated copies.

PS. *Nods in understanding to Kot's last post* And I appreciate it. Thank you.

[brilliantlight]

Now this is ridiculous, Scanning each page of every book and then uploading it somewhere can take a while, uploading a bunch of PDF files will just take seconds, It's ridiculously easy to pirate digital propriety, If you ever checked a torrent site it will have loads of stuff like music, full movies, video games, and yes, even books, all freely available to download, Risk of piracy is low? Companies loose millions each year because of piracy. As someone else said big companies can take those losses, but Rich's is only a small business.

A TV guide and stuff like that isn't exactly valuable, hell for the most part on-line mags and things like that are already free to begin with, but on the other hand, a comic or a book, is something that takes a lot of time and effort to make and is definitively something you wouldn't want to risk like this.

If somehow Rich decided to release the books for on-line purchase I certainly wouldn't complain, I don't think they will ever be sold in my country and buying them digitally is pretty much the only way I could get a hold of them short of going to the USA, but if he never does I will understand and even agree with his reasons.

You can easily scan something and turn it into a PDF. I think the print costs are the more likely reason.

[Zorn]

I'm going to have to agree with tomaO2 on this one. An online version makes buying much more convenient which, of course, means more customers. It also allows the Giant to effectively cut out the middle man; by eliminating production and shipping costs, he can slash prices and draw even more sales.

A PDF form doesn't make piracy much more difficult. Scanning pages is very simple and fast. Even if it wasn't, if someone wants to pirate something they can. Paper form may slow the piracy process somewhat, but no amount of barriers will stop a determined pirate.

Re releasing the earlier books online is a good idea. If the information leaks out too quickly the Giant can always just close off the PDF method with minimal losses, but if it works he's got himself an effective marketing tool. We see the movie companies putting out remakes all the time. Why do they do it? For the minimal effort of transferring the movie from one form of media to another (i.e. video cassette to DVD), the company can make a good deal of money off of people who either missed it the first time around or liked it so much that they want an updated version. Personally I think the potential for profit far outweighs the possibility of piracy, especially when pirating the books is a preexisting threat.

[theKOT]

But Zorn, I love having a print version. I find books easier to read than something on a computer screen, and I find people more responsive to borrowing the books from me than following the url to check it out. I would be less likely to buy PDF format than print, even with lower costs. I would hate to see print superseded by PDF, and I'm sure there are many customers on both sides of this issue.

[Trazoi]

But Zorn, I love having a print version. I find books easier to read than something on a computer screen, and I find people more responsive to borrowing the books from me than following the url to check it out. I would be less likely to buy PDF format than print, even with lower costs. I would hate to see print superseded by PDF, and I'm sure there are many customers on both sides of this issue.
Me too. The way I support webcomics is by buying their books and other physical mechandise (like T-shirts). Admittedly the shipping is usually pricey as I live on the other side of the world from most print warehouses, but I prefer to have something physical on my bookshelf. I usually buy two copies as well; one for me, one to gift to a friend or family member who I think would enjoy it.

I woudn't prefer it if OotS went for downloadable PDFs instead of print. We've already got most of OotS in accessable digital format already. While I wouldn't mind downloadable PDFs as well as printed books, the posted quote from Rich makes a lot of sense. Digital downloads would hurt the sales of the print versions, which would mean more costly small print runs would have be made rather than more cost effective bulk ones done now. I wouldn't like it for the PDFs to kill off the print versions ability to support Rich financially; that's a big part of the reason why I buy them.

[factotum]

Let's not forget here that the Giant pretty much supports himself from sales of OotS merchandise. If he thought more money could be made selling them as PDFs, I'm sure he'd do it. The fact he isn't should be enough to indicate that he doesn't see enough of a margin in it--and he, after all, is considerably more privy to the workings of his own business than anyone posting in this thread!

[AdamG]

I bought two OOTS books already. They are good quality too, and I'd gladly buy the rest if I had the money to spare for them. With that said, having a much lower priced PDF with high quality resolution pictures so I could print them myself until I had the dough for the proper books would be nice. If high quality PDFs were made available for around $5 each, I would most likely buy them. :smallsmile:

Whether or not PDF versions would make good financial sense for Rich, I don't know. I don't want to even speculate because I don't want to be wrong and cause him to lose revenue. :smallconfused:

[Prowl]

If a file were made available it would instantly hit the torrent sites and be freely distributed far and wide without a dime going to the author.

If that would result in no more comic, then I'd prefer not to see it in digital format.

[Bayar]

One wonders if Rich doesn't release those two as PDF due to concerns of piracy.

Seconded. I actually saw a torent with all the online strips, and 2 comments: they were both begging for otooPC's and SoD...go figure.

[tomaO2]

I still say that it's a very large assumption to state that making an official PDF file for purchase would result in such a rash of piracy. It's also boggling for me to hear that simply because you can get an online version, the print would be history. Girl Genius is one of the biggest comics around and the only reason they got popular was because they posted EVERYTHING online. The author's have admitted they were struggling until they did this. I can read the whole story FREE but that has only helped their sales of paper. Again and again, people buy the paper versions of stories they can get free online and they don't need any special content to do so. This is basically the Giant's model for business but somehow, if the pre-equal books were avalable to be sold as a PDF file that would destroy the market? How does that even make sense? Take your argument to the logical end and the Giant should pack up and never update the comic on this site again. I guarantee that nothing good will come from it if that happened.

Online PDF sales are very reasonably priced. I didn't buy Goblins books because that was expensive and cumbersome for me but I did buy the PDF file that Thunt sold. Plenty of people feel the same and anyone that wants the book will buy the book, regardless of a PDF alternative or not.

This is all fear mongering. I'd like to see some real hard data indicating that this wouldn't work. What's the real basis for this fear? You all make statements with nothing to back it up. I can back up what I say because the buisness model for giving people a free online comic and then selling them a paper version (along with other items) has been the basic model for success again and again and again. Bayer admitted that there are PDF files of the regular books online and yet the paper versions still sell. Sure, some comments were begging for the prologue books but do you think those people would have bought the comic anyway? I think if you really look into this, you'll all find that your worrying over nothing.

Prove me wrong.

Since the Giant has decided (I'm not convinced he's put any serious thought behind this decision but nothing I say would make him consider he's wrong) that this is not the way to go, I'm done arguing for it. So this is my last post on this topic unless someone comes up with a relevant (not porn/movies or the like, I mean a REAL example of how this didn't work for a webcomic) example as to why this would wreck his revenue stream if implemented.


Otherwise, we're just rehashing at this point.

[Lissou]

Just my two cents here:

Je reason I never bought the Goblins books is that I'm waiting for the second one to be available in print form so I can buy both at once and reduce the shipping fees. It hasn't happened yet, but I really hope it does at some point.

I'd have no interest in PDFs. I find them painful to read, honestly, more than the website because you'd have to scroll down all the time rather than clicking the "next" arrow.

If someone wants PDFs, I don't really objects to that, unless it affects me. If doing so would reduce book sales and make it worthless to print the books, and I get deprived of getting them, I'll be pretty pissed. So in a case like that, I'm against it.
If it doesn't affect me and allows people to get the PDFs when they wouldn't get the books, then sure, why not. That being said, Rich is already busy with lots of stuff and might not want to take extra time for that.

And I do agree that getting PDFs for the compilation books would have a very limited interest. Basically, only the bonus strips (what is it, 5-10 pages per book?) and the commentary (around 1 page per "chapter") and preface/introduction would be new material. That's a low portion of the book, and would require the price of the PDF to be quite low. In the end, it might not be worth the trouble.

I also disagree about digital stuff destroying paper stuff. I think it happens to an extent, but I don't think it will ever happen for books, and yes, I include graphic novels. Look at all the comics that you can get on the internet and yet print their compilations and make profit. I mean, Dilbert for instance, or most newspaper comics.
And a lot of other webcomics only print already-online comics, and they still sell books. When I like a webcomic, my first instinct is to check if they sell compilation books. I know I'm not the only one.
A PDF will always be limited to your computer (or other computers). A book you can bring with you when you go camping, you can lend to a friend, you can keep in your bag to read on your break. It's just more practical.

[SoC175]

The risk of piracy is low. About as low as a person taking a scanner to an OOTS book and publishing it online (which is not overly difficult).
I would say it's a lot higher because it requires much less effort. On the other hand basically every RPG books finds a pirate who is willing scan side after side, compile them into a PDF and release them online. It's just one of the sad facts of modern culture.

So I wouldn't be suprised if all released OotS books are long since circulating through the torrent networks anyway. Why still not sell PDFs? At least it usually takes a couple of days until the printed books arrive as torrents, while a water marked PDF would most likely have the water mark removed and be ready to be pirated withing hours

[Bayar]

I would say it's a lot higher because it requires much less effort. On the other hand basically every RPG books finds a pirate who is willing scan side after side, compile them into a PDF and release them online. It's just one of the sad facts of modern culture.

So I wouldn't be suprised if all released OotS books are long since circulating through the torrent networks anyway. Why still not sell PDFs? At least it usually takes a couple of days until the printed books arrive as torrents, while a water marked PDF would most likely have the water mark removed and be ready to be pirated withing hours

I would be surprised since most of the people that actually buy Rich's books respect him and would not do anything to compromise his income.

[Volodea]

I'd also enjoy buying a virtual copy, seeing how I live in Romania, and I'm not willing to spend a ridiculous price (yes, more expensive than the book) on the shipping. I'm not gonna torrent it either, because I just like it too much.

[kpenguin]

The Modguin: Please don't revive threads that are over six weeks old, much over two years old. Thread locked.