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fireinthedust
2008-08-04, 02:41 PM
so I'm wondering what the most useful race for the wizard class is. I've not played 4e yet, but my initial thinking is:

human (for the extra ability; that means I get another one for use in play, right?)

Eladrin (the teleport looks really useful; otherwise a full ability would likely be better)

half-elf (probably eldritch blast, maybe some martial attack and then go sword of corellon).

so what's better: more abilities, or fey step?

any other wizard advice (other than expanded spellbook)

Edge of Dreams
2008-08-04, 02:47 PM
Human is really, really good for wizard, mainly because you can get 3 different types of at-will attacks: a close blast (thunderwave), a ranged aoe (scorching burst), and your choice of a ranged single target attack (ray of frost or magic missle, I really don't care for cloud of daggers).

Eladrin are nice if you like the flavor and are planning on using wand mastery, but remember that dex and int serve the same role for defense, so don't neglect your con and wis. The PHB overstates the importance of dex for a wizard who should already be maxing out int anyway.

Expanded spellbook is actually not all it's cracked up to be. Due to the lack of easy divination in 4e, you're less likely to know what you'll be up against tomorrow, so most wizards will end up picking their favorite daily power at each level and sticking to it.

Edit: Also consider the human-only feats. Action Surge is awesome for use with a daily power.

Charity
2008-08-04, 03:01 PM
Edge gives sage advice, the MM gives more choices Githyanki's being pretty good candidates, Dopplegangers are fun, Gnomes still make good mages and if you fancy out angsting the tiefling there is always the Shadar-kai.

JackMage666
2008-08-04, 04:27 PM
Githyanki gets flavor points, plain and simple. Give 'em a quarterstaff and Staff of Defense, and you're well on your way to making an awesomely flavorful war-wizard.

Mechanic wise, I'd say humans, but really anything with that +2 Int is good.

Saph
2008-08-04, 04:41 PM
I'd say humans, simply because Wizards are pretty much the only class that really really benefit from an extra at-will. Wizards have probably the nicest variety of at-will powers of any class.

That said, if you're planning to go as far as the Paragon tier, the Eladrin's +2 Dex is nice for getting Arcane Reach.

- Saph

Dan2
2008-08-04, 04:55 PM
I find that dex is still significantly useful for wizards.

For wands, it's invaluable (+ to hit is pretty rare).
It helps out your initiative, which is gold for any wizard.
It opens up a number of feats ranging from really useful to meh.

Not to say that Con is useless or even unimportant, but it does a lot less than it used to, and I think people overestimate it's worth.

To be fair, I'm also a huge supporter of Eladrin.



As far as the "best" race? Depends on what you're going to be doing, but Eladrin, Elves, and Humans compete for the top IMO.

Douglas
2008-08-04, 05:38 PM
Eladrin are pretty much designed specifically for the wizard class. The two most important stats in general for wizards are intelligence and arcana, and Eladrin get bonuses to both of them. Fey Step is also a great escape ability, allowing your fragile mage to flee without provoking opportunity attacks and, depending on the terrain, possibly put yourself in a position where most enemies cannot easily follow.

Humans are also a good choice, but that's more of an incidental thing. Their ability to choose which ability score gets a bonus lets them match the Eladrin intelligence bonus, at least, and wizards have a sufficient variety of at-will powers that getting one more is a significant bonus.

Kurald Galain
2008-08-04, 06:09 PM
Wizards are the foremost "single stat" class, which means anything with an int bonus is good. Consider starting with a 20 int at first level - a high int helps you a lot more with hitting than your one-time wand of accuracy (besides, unless your character has studied at Hogwarts, wands are seriously lame).

EagleWiz
2008-08-04, 06:12 PM
Also wisdom is important if you use orbs. Giving a enemy -6 to saves is increadably deadly.

Dan2
2008-08-04, 06:18 PM
Wizards are the foremost "single stat" class, which means anything with an int bonus is good. Consider starting with a 20 int at first level - a high int helps you a lot more with hitting than your one-time wand of accuracy (besides, unless your character has studied at Hogwarts, wands are seriously lame).

Wizards get too much out of Wisdom for me to consider them the foremost "single stat" class. Unless you build a blaster... Then I'd agree readily.

If you are talking about the flavor of using wands being lame, meh, it's debatable.
If you are talking about the mechanics of the wand mastery being lame, then we have a pretty big disagreement.

Edea
2008-08-04, 07:29 PM
IMO, Elves. The rest of my thoughts are spoilered.


They get a bonus to both secondary stats and, much more importantly, the Elven Accuracy racial power. Attack rolls are one of the most important aspects of 4e, and the reroll 1/enc is going to help you more than the +1 to hit from a 16-boosted-to-18 Int score (I speak from experience, and I believe the CO boards back me up, here; take that as you wish), especially if you've -also- got a Wand specialty (in particular a magic wand).

Battles of equivalent character level usually last ~4 or 5 combat rounds. If they're going much longer than that, your stats are not the problem :smallbiggrin:.

Also, BRING A TACTICAL WARLORD AS AN ALLY. Please, for the love of GOD, bring one of those. It makes life a -hell- of a lot easier for you and everybody else, right out the gate (and in Epic tier they are invaluable).

One possible party: 2H Fighter, Melee Cleric, Ranger (preferably melee, but bow ranger will still be quite efficient), Warlord(Tactical)/Wizard multi, Wizard/Laser Cleric multi.

(22 point buy)
Str 8
Con 11
Dex 16
Int 16
Wis 16
Cha 12

Boost Int on: 4th/8th/11th/12th/16th/20th/21st/24th. End score: 24 (+7)
Boost Dex on: 4th/11th/12th/20th/21st/28th. End score: 22 (+6)
Boost Wis on: 8th/11th/16th/24th/21st/28th. End score: 22 (+6)

Heroic Tier:
================================================== ======
Specialize in the Wand. Multiclass into Cleric before you reach Paragon tier. Take Elven Precision at 1st. Expanded Spellbook is nice, mainly for Utility powers (as those are accrued instead of retrained). Durable, Improved Initiative, Armor Proficiency (Leather), Toughness, and Skill Training/Focus feats are all decent choices. Sadly, they nerfed Stealth ($#^*@); previously that was a fantastic choice for a Wizard to get a feat for, as constant CA means constant +2 to-hit. I'd grab Heal later on.

If you want to gain the power swap feats, go ahead, but they're entirely optional. You only need the Initiate feat, but it IS nice to have a couple powers that only hit enemies and that are Radiant-elemental, and the to-hit difference between Int and Wis powers is only going to be at most +1 (and for now, it's +0).

For at-wills, choose Thunderwave and Scorching Burst. You're an elf, and therefore automatically proficient with a longbow, thus making Magic Missile pretty obsolete; CoD is crap (you shouldn't even BE missing, especially against a single minion, whose status you should be unaware of, anyway), and RoF is a Warlock power (in other words, not what you're supposed to be doing).

Don't worry about Rituals yet, that's Paragon stuff; just pick whatever (try to focus on Rituals that do not run off of an actual skill check, at least for now).

As for powers, go for the ones that have a "Primary/Secondary" target setup, or ones that only hit enemies (The Level 3 Encounter power, fire-elemental, is an AWESOME ability in comparison to the others at its level). Do not try to inflict conditions with encounter powers alone; you will meet with disappointment (again, my own experience). Save that stuff for your dailies (in particular the Sleep and Web spells), especially 'save ends' (besides that one encounter power I mentioned, that's ENTIRELY the realm of daily spells; that's when you use your Orb implement once in the Paragon Tier, to negate a Solo's save bonus or to make an Elite extremely miserable).

Paragon Tier:
================================================== ======
Cha will be at 13 when you reach Paragon, so you can take the Spell Focus feat. Grab this immediately, along with Second Implement (Orb) via retraining, at level 11. You already qualify for Arcane Reach at that point, so grab it at 12 (this makes Thunderwave significantly more useful). You'll probably want to have Quick Draw (to be able to swap between a wand and an orb in the same turn and still attack), but that one's probably dependant on how your DM treats you having two implements at once. Danger Sense is a decent one if you took Improved Initiative (and if you brought along a Warlord).

Take the Divine Oracle paragon path (remember, you multied into cleric). This makes hitting things with your powers a lot easier.

Speaking of powers, things start getting slightly more interesting as far as selection is concerned. With encounter powers, you should still focus on a primary/secondary hit structure. Dailies, focus on the conditions inflicted. Size is nice, but the bigger it is, the harder it's going to be to use properly until you've hit 21st level.

Now's about the time you need to make sure you and the Cleric have the necessary rituals (Raise Dead, the curative ones, etc.). Try to improve your Ritual repertoire before going Epic.

Epic Tier:
================================================== ======
Spell Accuracy at 21st. ALWAYS. Now your power selection should change somewhat; focus on huge-ass area effects, as now you can exclude your allies from said effects. As your Epic Destiny, I'd probably pick Archmage; Demigod is sorely tempting, but its best effect doesn't kick in until 30th, leading to some undesirable bumpiness on your character's roadmap. Deadly Trickster would be incredible, but you don't qualify for it. Eternal Seeker is a bit underpowered as written, due to the paucity of available classes atm.

Feats other than Spell Accuracy are really up to you at this point; Epic Resurgence and Irresistible Flame will probably help the most out of the Epic Tier Feats.

Zocelot
2008-08-04, 09:23 PM
IMO, Elves. The rest of my thoughts are spoilered.


They get a bonus to both secondary stats and, much more importantly, the Elven Accuracy racial power. Attack rolls are one of the most important aspects of 4e, and the reroll 1/enc is going to help you more than the +1 to hit from a 16-boosted-to-18 Int score (I speak from experience, and I believe the CO boards back me up, here; take that as you wish), especially if you've -also- got a Wand specialty (in particular a magic wand).

Battles of equivalent character level usually last ~4 or 5 combat rounds. If they're going much longer than that, your stats are not the problem :smallbiggrin:.

Also, BRING A TACTICAL WARLORD AS AN ALLY. Please, for the love of GOD, bring one of those. It makes life a -hell- of a lot easier for you and everybody else, right out the gate (and in Epic tier they are invaluable).

One possible party: 2H Fighter, Melee Cleric, Ranger (preferably melee, but bow ranger will still be quite efficient), Warlord(Tactical)/Wizard multi, Wizard/Laser Cleric multi.

(22 point buy)
Str 8
Con 11
Dex 16
Int 16
Wis 16
Cha 12

Boost Int on: 4th/8th/11th/12th/16th/20th/21st/24th. End score: 24 (+7)
Boost Dex on: 4th/11th/12th/20th/21st/28th. End score: 22 (+6)
Boost Wis on: 8th/11th/16th/24th/21st/28th. End score: 22 (+6)

Heroic Tier:
================================================== ======
Specialize in the Wand. Multiclass into Cleric before you reach Paragon tier. Take Elven Precision at 1st. Expanded Spellbook is nice, mainly for Utility powers (as those are accrued instead of retrained). Durable, Improved Initiative, Armor Proficiency (Leather), Toughness, and Skill Training/Focus feats are all decent choices. Sadly, they nerfed Stealth ($#^*@); previously that was a fantastic choice for a Wizard to get a feat for, as constant CA means constant +2 to-hit. I'd grab Heal later on.

If you want to gain the power swap feats, go ahead, but they're entirely optional. You only need the Initiate feat, but it IS nice to have a couple powers that only hit enemies and that are Radiant-elemental, and the to-hit difference between Int and Wis powers is only going to be at most +1 (and for now, it's +0).

For at-wills, choose Thunderwave and Scorching Burst. You're an elf, and therefore automatically proficient with a longbow, thus making Magic Missile pretty obsolete; CoD is crap (you shouldn't even BE missing, especially against a single minion, whose status you should be unaware of, anyway), and RoF is a Warlock power (in other words, not what you're supposed to be doing).

Don't worry about Rituals yet, that's Paragon stuff; just pick whatever (try to focus on Rituals that do not run off of an actual skill check, at least for now).

As for powers, go for the ones that have a "Primary/Secondary" target setup, or ones that only hit enemies (The Level 3 Encounter power, fire-elemental, is an AWESOME ability in comparison to the others at its level). Do not try to inflict conditions with encounter powers alone; you will meet with disappointment (again, my own experience). Save that stuff for your dailies (in particular the Sleep and Web spells), especially 'save ends' (besides that one encounter power I mentioned, that's ENTIRELY the realm of daily spells; that's when you use your Orb implement once in the Paragon Tier, to negate a Solo's save bonus or to make an Elite extremely miserable).

Paragon Tier:
================================================== ======
Cha will be at 13 when you reach Paragon, so you can take the Spell Focus feat. Grab this immediately, along with Second Implement (Orb) via retraining, at level 11. You already qualify for Arcane Reach at that point, so grab it at 12 (this makes Thunderwave significantly more useful). You'll probably want to have Quick Draw (to be able to swap between a wand and an orb in the same turn and still attack), but that one's probably dependant on how your DM treats you having two implements at once. Danger Sense is a decent one if you took Improved Initiative (and if you brought along a Warlord).

Take the Divine Oracle paragon path (remember, you multied into cleric). This makes hitting things with your powers a lot easier.

Speaking of powers, things start getting slightly more interesting as far as selection is concerned. With encounter powers, you should still focus on a primary/secondary hit structure. Dailies, focus on the conditions inflicted. Size is nice, but the bigger it is, the harder it's going to be to use properly until you've hit 21st level.

Now's about the time you need to make sure you and the Cleric have the necessary rituals (Raise Dead, the curative ones, etc.). Try to improve your Ritual repertoire before going Epic.

Epic Tier:
================================================== ======
Spell Accuracy at 21st. ALWAYS. Now your power selection should change somewhat; focus on huge-ass area effects, as now you can exclude your allies from said effects. As your Epic Destiny, I'd probably pick Archmage; Demigod is sorely tempting, but its best effect doesn't kick in until 30th, leading to some undesirable bumpiness on your character's roadmap. Deadly Trickster would be incredible, but you don't qualify for it. Eternal Seeker is a bit underpowered as written, due to the paucity of available classes atm.

Feats other than Spell Accuracy are really up to you at this point; Epic Resurgence and Irresistible Flame will probably help the most out of the Epic Tier Feats.


Thats a nice build. Some people might want to play a Wizard that isn't a multiclass Cleric, Divine Oracle and Archmage though.
I still see your point about the different powers, but I feel Human is better then elf. They get the bonus to Int which elves do not. The bonus to the saves and the extra feat are particularly useful, especially at low levels. At higher levels, when combat last a bit longer and requires more tactical thinking, the extra at-will is better then any racial encounter power. Additionally, the Human feats are much better.

fireinthedust
2008-08-04, 10:08 PM
thanks for the massive build info (I think you've been thinking about that build for a while now).

(any info on half-elf builds would be good; I get the feeling they're better warlocks than wizards, but prove me wrong!)

My group, however, is a bit erratic for game nights (about four constant players now, some probable shows backing that up). Also, concepts are thought up individually, so having that specific party is unlikely.

I'm thinking of eladrin simply because flanking and AoO are such a huge factor in our 3.5 game right now. (I'm a dwarven fighter, there's a barbarian, and a wad of clerics)
Having Fey step... does it let me go up? Like, could I go up a tree or something?
However, human could certainly work; if he's from the human kingdom that just flopped (from the classes/races preview), that would work with the idea I've got. Also, an extra at-will would be great.

He'll be a rake, I think, unaligned, sort of a nobleman; I don't know if you've seen the second season of Rome, but the adviser of Octavian with black hair is one influence. This one's red haired and smokes an exotic hosed pipe with scented spices in it (not drugs, thanks, or nicotine, but similar to a hooka and merely for flavor and effect; really affluent hobby, like romans using a vomitorium, but just smoke ("less bother, and I can't stand the smell")). Adventuring mostly because he's interested in power and items, but heroics because he's not really all that bad deep down. I intend to have him aloof with the occasional quote from some poetry to show how much better educated he is. Think the Caterpillar from Alice in Wonderland, but more snide.

So, whatever the alignment, he'll go for fireworks and rituals, and almost exclusively mage spells in a fight.

What should I go for in terms of magic? I like the staves I've seen: big damage. I don't understand implements yet (just got the rules the other day; we're still in 3.5 at the table).

Any other hints for a human or Eladrin build?

TheEmerged
2008-08-04, 10:42 PM
My experience goes like this:

#1> Humans. No other class benefits from having a third at-will from the same class list as much as wizard. Wizards are, as mentioned, one of the top "one attribute" classes so only getting a +2 to one attribute isn't the penalty for wizards it is for, say, clerics or rogues. Between their bonus feat and their bonus skill learned, a human wizard can realistically start out with every ritual skill available for their level (Start with Arcana & Nature. Add Religion from Initiate of the Faith, and Heal from Skill Training). Humans also have among the best racial feats.

#2> Eladrin. +2 to Intelligence is better than the +2 to Dex, but don't forget that while Ref defense is redundant between the two, initiative isn't. Fey Step is a heck of an escape clause. They have the best skill bonuses of the races on this list for a wizard. The additional skill means they can start out with ritual skills capped too (since their bonus skill doesn't have to be from their skill list, they can take Arcana, Nature, and Religion as from their class choices and Heal as their racial bonus skill).

#3> Tiefling. +2 to Intelligence, but the +2 to Cha is not as useful to most mages unless they're shooting for the feat to reduce saves. Skill pluses are not as good for a mage as the Eladrin bonuses, IMO. Infernal wrath requires the wizard to get hit, which is not usually a good requirement for a mage.

#4> Half Elf. There's a noted lack of at-will attack powers from other classes that use +Int, so Dilentee doesn't benefit the wizard the way it does most other classes, and their ability & skill bonuses hardly scream wizard.

wodan46
2008-08-04, 11:24 PM
Humans are natural Wizards. Humans are the only class to get more than 2 at-wills, and Wizards are the only class to get more than 4 at-will powers (6 currently). The most powerful conventional Wizard build uses Wis as a secondary (for the at-wills and orb), but no race has an ability bonus to both Int and Wis. Humans only give 1 ability bonus anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Cloud of Dagger is a fine power, it deals 1d6+Int damage if it hits, and it deals Wis damage no matter what. For a Wizard with 18 Int and 16 Wis and 50% hit chance, this will deal 6.75 average damage, and if the enemy moves out and engages you in melee combat, you can Thunderwave it back into the Cloud the next turn, dealing 5.25 average damage (less because you will only do the auto damage if the Thunderwave hits, but doing it this way means the enemy gets no opportunity attacks)

EndlessWrath
2008-08-04, 11:46 PM
I played a really good Eladrin wizard who focused more on dmg and blast spells. He was really good. at one point a blinked past a group of guys..and cast wall of fire. next turn they all got caught in it... and they got hit by fireball next turn. good aoe...and since I had a 20 int... I had +5 + my level to spell attacks. The dex is good for AC too

Edit: don't forget about trance as well. Trance lets you stay aware of your surroundings while asleep..which you only have to do for 4 hours

TheOOB
2008-08-05, 12:50 AM
Humans are good, +2 Int is always useful, and many builds will be unable to fit the amazing thunderwave in their build if they are not human(scorching burst is almost a must for wizards, and you should also have a single target at-will), and the other human abilities(like the action surge feat) are always good.

Eladrin are pretty good all around wizards, +2 Int as usually is pretty good, and +2 Dex improves your initiative and makes your wand of accuracy better(your awesome powers only matter if they hit). Fey Step is to get out of a sticky situation or to teleport to high ground where you have a clear view of the battlefield and are difficult to hit, eladrin don't have to use as many of their utility spells for defense.

Tieflings are pretty awesome. +2 Int is, as usually, pretty good, and +2 Cha makes acquiring spell focus a little easier(and a couple other useful feats). While infernal wrath isn't anything special(not useless though, you will get hit sometime), +1 attack vs bloodied foes is great, and the feat that gives +1 attack and damage on fire spells is very good as well, with wizards having no shortage of fire spells.

Elves are also very good wizards. While not having a bonus to int hurts, elven accuracy is one of the most useful racials in the game(for wizards and everyone else), and the stat bonuses arn't bad either. Dex is good for initiative and wand of accuracy, and Wis is good for the orb of imposition, which is usually considered the most powerful implement mastery at high levels. The extra speed and ability to shift away from enemies in difficult terrain(which you very well might have made in the first place) are just icing on the cake. You'll probally have to take an 18 on int though, which really hurts your other stats.

tbarrie
2008-08-05, 02:47 AM
Human is really, really good for wizard, mainly because you can get 3 different types of at-will attacks: a close blast (thunderwave), a ranged aoe (scorching burst), and your choice of a ranged single target attack (ray of frost or magic missle, I really don't care for cloud of daggers).

Unless you've decided to make Wisdom your dump stat or you have a warlord in the party who's going to be handing out a boatload of extra ranged basic attacks, I have difficulty seeing why Magic Missile would ever even be worth considering over Cloud of Daggers, Am I underestimating the number of times fights take place at ranges greater than 10?

Dhavaer
2008-08-05, 04:44 AM
The dex is good for AC too

Not if your Intelligence is 20. You use the highest of your Intelligence or Dexterity, which for a Wizard will almost always be Intelligence.

Saph
2008-08-05, 05:45 AM
Unless you've decided to make Wisdom your dump stat or you have a warlord in the party who'se going to be handing out a boatload of extra ranged basic attacks, I have difficulty seeing why Magic Missile would ever even be worth considering over Cloud of Daggers, Am I underestimating the number of times fights take place at ranges greater than 10?

There's something to be said in favour of being able to shoot a monster from outside its charge range.

But personally, I'm not a fan of either Magic Missile or Cloud of Daggers. I always pick my Wizard at-wills from Scorching Burst, Ray of Frost, and Thunderwave (which is why I like Humans - you get all three!)

- Saph

Charity
2008-08-05, 06:37 AM
More sage advice

Edge of Dreams
2008-08-05, 12:22 PM
Unless you've decided to make Wisdom your dump stat or you have a warlord in the party who'se going to be handing out a boatload of extra ranged basic attacks, I have difficulty seeing why Magic Missile would ever even be worth considering over Cloud of Daggers, Am I underestimating the number of times fights take place at ranges greater than 10?

Well, first off, yes, I have been in plenty of fights at range greater than ten squares. Recently, my party invaded a kobold lair and ended up fighting over thirty kobolds in a roughly 30 sq. x 20 sq. cavern with barricades and traps. Our ranger was able to stay behind cover and at long range to stay away from the kobold slingers while everyone else had to charge forward to get within range of melee or the warlock and wizards 10 square range. Also, if your DM ever has you fight on an open plain, or even in a forrest, the fight should start at a range of at least twenty squares, if not more, unless one group sneaks up on the other.

Secondly, cloud of daggers does less damage than magic missile unless your wisdom modifier is fairly high, and it is really not much of a deterrent to anything that's not a minion. Cloud of Daggers can be decent in tight corridors, but even then, many enemies will just take the hit, and once they're in melee range CoD can't make them retreat, because the auto-damage isn't avoidable.

Even if Cloud of Daggers averages 2 or 3 points a round higher damage, that can still be outweighed by getting one extra shot in at long range at the start of smaller battles, or repeatedly sniping enemies that are attacking from range.

Finally, having a longer ranged attack is beneficial when you need to finish off the last runaway enemy before they escape and alert their friends you're coming.

Ray of Frost, however, is roughly equal to MM in my opinion thanks to the slow benefit.

wodan46
2008-08-05, 12:55 PM
Assuming 50% chances of hitting, 18 Int, and 16 Wisdom:

Magic Missile: 9 damage on a hit, 0 damage on a miss, 4.5 avg dmg
Cloud of Daggers: 10.5 damage on a hit, 3 damage on a miss, 6.75 avg dmg

Cloud of Daggers deals 2.25 more damage on average, and always does at least 3 damage, with the chance of doing more to any that pass through, or are pushed through by Thunderwave and the like.

Unless you frequently encounter enemies at ranges greater than 50 feet, you are unlikely to need Magic Missile.

Edge of Dreams
2008-08-05, 03:25 PM
Assuming 50% chances of hitting, 18 Int, and 16 Wisdom:

Magic Missile: 9 damage on a hit, 0 damage on a miss, 4.5 avg dmg
Cloud of Daggers: 10.5 damage on a hit, 3 damage on a miss, 6.75 avg dmg

Cloud of Daggers deals 2.25 more damage on average, and always does at least 3 damage, with the chance of doing more to any that pass through, or are pushed through by Thunderwave and the like.

Unless you frequently encounter enemies at ranges greater than 50 feet, you are unlikely to need Magic Missile.

I stand corrected on the damage output of Magic Missile vs. Cloud of Daggers. And it is true that CoD has advantages against minions and as terrain control. I still maintain, however, that unless your campaign is entirely urban and/or dungeon crawl, you should be having at least some encounters where some (not necessarily all) enemies are more than 10 squares away from the wizard for at least part of the fight. Yes, I know that's a lot of qualifications, and that not all DM's run the same types of encounters, but I do not think Magic Missile is an invalid choice. Magic Missile is, however, a better choice for humans than for other races due to a human's extra at-will.

fireinthedust
2008-08-05, 08:19 PM
Yeah, but Cloud of Daggers is also At-will.

I would like to remind folks also that the party meatshield(s) are likely to be between the badguys and the wizard. If there's a tunnel, hallway or even a room, CoD means the wizard can target the foe while the other PCs wail on it with their own attacks.
And, since Dexterity isn't as important for defence for a highl Int PC, Wisdom isn't likely to be a dump stat (for spells AND will saves).

I havn't found it yet, but are there AoO's in 4e? Like, if I use Thunderwave to knock a kobold into my CoD, do the other PCs get an AoO? That could be brutal.

Also, I've noted there's no "improved Crit" feat (that I've found). That's too bad, as the magic staves and other items only allow the mega damage bonus on criticals. Anything to help optimize this?

wodan46
2008-08-05, 09:13 PM
AoOs are NOT triggered by forced movement, unless actually specified by the power in question (Cause Fear states this, which is fair given that it deals no regular damage).

AoOs are triggered mainly by voluntarily moving away from an enemy and making ranged attacks while standing next to the enemy. Combat Challenge attacks are not opportunity attacks, which means that if a marked enemy makes a ranged attack while standing next to you, you get TWO free hits on it.

Close attacks do not trigger AoOs, which is why Thunderwave is so awesome. Wizards can shove enemies away without triggering an AoO, then use their move action to hide behind the resident meatshield again.

Viruzzo
2008-08-07, 05:56 AM
I would like to remind folks also that the party meatshield(s) are likely to be between the badguys and the wizard.
Allies don't provide cover.

Kurald Galain
2008-08-07, 06:13 AM
Allies don't provide cover.

No, but enemies do.

Beleriphon
2008-08-07, 12:05 PM
Allies don't provide cover.

That was more a comment that the CoD ability to deal damage and terrain control should be less of an issue if there a big strapping fighter between the wizard and the kobold hordes.