PDA

View Full Version : Shrink Item Question (and a few others)



Emperor Tippy
2008-08-05, 02:27 AM
Step 1: Cast Shrink Item on a sack.
Step 2: Cast Permanency on Shrink Item.
Step 3: Put something in the unshrunk sack.
Step 4: Say the command word to shrink the sack.
Step 5: ???

What happens after step 4?

I'm of the opinion that whatever is in the sack is shrunk as well, just as it would be if you cast shrink item on a filled sack but I would like to here your opinions.

---
If multiple people are attempting to drag an object you add the amount they can add together to see if they can move the object, correct?

only1doug
2008-08-05, 04:45 AM
If i were GMing it i'd rule that only the sack was effected, the items inside weren't there when the spell was originally cast so aren't part of the spell.

then i'd have the sack shrink to the point where it completely surrounds item and use enlarge person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm) rules (or common sense) to determine if the item inside is crushed down to a smaller size.

I wouldn't warn the player that this would happen, unless he passed a tough knowledge arcana check (which he would have to choose to roll).

If the sack was originally enchanted with items inside it then both the sack and the items would shrink simultaneousely, as long as they were touching. if any part of the original target of the spell is not present then the shrink effect will not work until all parts are again present.

Note: if you were able to shrink a bag of holding or a handy haversack (which you can't, as they are magic items) then I would rule that only the appature will be effected, the extradimensional space would not be reduced.

-------------

Agreed, multiple people's drag capacities would be added together




Doug

Talic
2008-08-05, 05:01 AM
Shrink item affects only the bag (spell description). Thus, the items inside would not be subject to the spell.

Now, the fun part. Permanency a Shrink Item spell on a corpse. Cast Raise Dead. Now you can make a midget at will, and, since his items are attended, they would grow and shrink with him. By the description of the spell, it would turn a 16 foot tall cloud giant into a 1 foot tall diminutive creature. A 6 foot tall man? Becomes 4.5 inches tall. How's that for fitting in small spaces?

Emperor Tippy
2008-08-05, 05:02 AM
Too bad their isn't an expand item :D

Talic
2008-08-05, 05:09 AM
True... But there are all sorts of uses for the midget version.

Imagine... 4 inch tall warlocks on bookshelves! 4 inch mages (size bonus to AC, anyone? Ride your cat familiar?) Heck, the mage could even control it himself. (contingent shrink item, on his death, followed by immediate resurrection, and permanency off a scroll). Good times.

Emperor Tippy
2008-08-05, 05:20 AM
You have to have permanency cast on your when you are dead. To make Shrink Item permanent, permanency has to be cast on an object.

Hmm, use true res for no negative level.

Let's see what it would cost:
Contingent Shrink Item - Free (or do you need craft contingent spell?)
Scroll of Gate - 8,825 GP
True Resurrection - 11,530 (paying a level 17 cleric to cast it)

Step 1: Get Contingent Shrink Item.
Step 2: Use the Scroll of Gate to Gate in a Solar.
Step 3: Order the Solar to make Shrink Item permanent when you die.
Step 4: Kill yourself.
Step 5: The Solar makes the Shrink Item permanent.
Step 6: The Cleric casts True Resurrection on you.

Total Cost: 20,355 GP

kamikasei
2008-08-05, 05:50 AM
Wouldn't the change from an object (corpse) to a creature (resurrected person) make the spell end as no longer having a valid target?

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2008-08-05, 05:52 AM
Which is another reason that the rules for only checking the legality of targets upon casting can be problematic.

But having a midget warrior capable of going in to your mouth to clean the back teeth is just priceless (well not really, clearly affordable as shown above). Those kernels can be really annoying.

Emperor Tippy
2008-08-05, 05:52 AM
Wouldn't the change from an object (corpse) to a creature (resurrected person) make the spell end as no longer having a valid target?

Nope. Target is only checked when you cast a spell, and never again. An example is if you use dominate person on someone and then they are polymorphed into a dragon (not a valid target for dominate person) then the dominate person doesn't end.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-05, 11:30 AM
It is a little gray: The spells states you are able to shrink one non magical item as long as it is within spell size limitations and later cites an example even a burning fire and it's fuel (as written there can be more than a single fuel source, more than a single log or a single jar or pool of of burning oil feeding the single flame).

I'd allow a chest and it's contents to be shrunk as long as they met the 2 cubic feet a level requirement based on the flame example and I'd allow the chest to have permanency cast on the spell.

Any magic items inside the chest would not allow it to be shrunk.

What would happen with a dispel magic on a permanent magical item inside a trunk already shrunk when the magic was restored?

Arbitrarity
2008-08-05, 11:42 AM
Let's see what it would cost:
Contingent Shrink Item - Free (or do you need craft contingent spell?)
Scroll of Gate - 8,825 GP
True Resurrection - 11,530 (paying a level 17 cleric to cast it)

Step 1: Get Contingent Shrink Item.
Step 2: Use the Scroll of Gate to Gate in a Solar.
Step 3: Order the Solar to make Shrink Item permanent when you die.
Step 4: Kill yourself.
Step 5: The Solar makes the Shrink Item permanent.
Step 6: The Cleric casts True Resurrection on you.

Total Cost: 20,355 GP

Actually, 35255, as True Ressurection costs 26530 to have a cleric cast. 25K material component, not 10000.