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Deth Muncher
2008-08-05, 07:50 PM
So my DM has decided to scrap his current campaign (the one I was making the Dread Necromancer for, for those of you keeping score), and has decided to instead have us make new characters in Dominaria, which is the basic plane of existence for Magic: The Gathering. Our campaign will be set some time during the Brothers' War, after Urza and Mishra have established their kingdoms. The problem is my DM needs all the help he can get for creating the world. Now, we've got a guy who's got an almost disturbing encyclopedic knowledge of everything MTG. Hopefully though, you Playgrounders might know something more.

These are the things we need help on:

-What races should be allowed?

-What classes should be allowed?

-What sort of alternate features should be allowed?

What we HAVE decided is:

-Humans, dwarves and Half-elves.

-Lowish magic (as in, not really any spellcasting classes.)

-Monks, artificers and warlocks are OK, as well as Enlightened Fist.

I myself plan on playing an Artificer (hopefully an apprentice of Urza), and the guy who's the walking MTG encyclopedia is planning on the MonkX/Sorc3/Enlightened FistX build.

Discuss.

Thiel
2008-08-05, 07:54 PM
I know very little of MTG, but isn't the powerlevel in that game a couple of orders of magnitude higher than in D&D?
I mean, we're talking about wizards who summon entire armies.

Deth Muncher
2008-08-05, 08:04 PM
I know very little of MTG, but isn't the powerlevel in that game a couple of orders of magnitude higher than in D&D?
I mean, we're talking about wizards who summon entire armies.

Well, on that particular note, those would be what we call Planeswalkers (Or, what the Horizon Walker PrC wishes it was). We are completely and utterly NOT allowed to be one of those, at all, no matter what, end of story. Which is, in fact, why we're so low on the magic level of the game.

People might say "But wait! Didn't you say that Warlocks and Artificers are OK?"

Well, yes, they are. Why? Because they aren't exactly spellcasters. Warlocks utilize magic to basically power themselves and do such things, and their power comes from within (or contracts with evil outsiders, or whatnot). Artificers are abundantish in the campaign, probbably, because they use their power to infuse their weapons, plus they make constructs.

There IS an island with a school of magic on it, but that's about it.

TheDarkOne
2008-08-05, 08:29 PM
Well, on that particular note, those would be what we call Planeswalkers (Or, what the Horizon Walker PrC wishes it was). We are completely and utterly NOT allowed to be one of those, at all, no matter what, end of story. Which is, in fact, why we're so low on the magic level of the game.

There are a lot of characters in MTG worlds that are both spell casters and not Planeswalkers(for example, Tim), I don't see any reason why you shouldn't allow casters or make the world low magic.

Deth Muncher
2008-08-05, 08:31 PM
There are a lot of characters in MTG worlds that are both spell casters and not Planeswalkers(for example, Tim), I don't see any reason why you shouldn't allow casters or make the world low magic.

Heh, Tim the Prodigal. But roll back the age-o-meter to the era of the Brothers' War. Was there all that much casting at the time? (This is a serious question, not sarcasm.)

vicente408
2008-08-05, 08:49 PM
During the Brothers' War in Terisiare, as far as I know Magic wasn't a terribly well-known or well-practiced thing. Artifacts were definitely in full force, and used heavily by both sides of that conflict, and archaeological digs for ancient Thran artifacts were very common and a subject of great academic interest long before.

Magic definitely was known, though, as Urza had certainly heard of it, but always dismissed it as fantasy until he activated the Golgothian Sylex. But in other places around the plane, there were difinitely magic-users, usually shamanic-types in more primitive cultures.

I think this is a pretty cool idea for a campaign setting. Lots of artificers and martial classes, that's for sure. Low-magic would be the norm, I'd imagine, so probably no wizards and such. Clerics, probably ok. Druids from Argoth are definitely appropriate as well.

Deth Muncher
2008-08-05, 09:02 PM
During the Brothers' War in Terisiare, as far as I know Magic wasn't a terribly well-known or well-practiced thing. Artifacts were definitely in full force, and used heavily by both sides of that conflict, and archaeological digs for ancient Thran artifacts were very common and a subject of great academic interest long before.

Magic definitely was known, though, as Urza had certainly heard of it, but always dismissed it as fantasy until he activated the Golgothian Sylex. But in other places around the plane, there were difinitely magic-users, usually shamanic-types in more primitive cultures.

I think this is a pretty cool idea for a campaign setting. Lots of artificers and martial classes, that's for sure. Low-magic would be the norm, I'd imagine, so probably no wizards and such. Clerics, probably ok. Druids from Argoth are definitely appropriate as well.

Ah, thank you for reminding me of The Thran. That's a very good point. I mean, I remembered that Urza and Mishra started out on that dig.

And we had some concerns with clerics and the like. What if some of their spell abilities were to be replaced? I mean, how about instead of having certain spells or whatever, change it up so they get better against Artifacts? We're basically dropping alignment from the game (pretty much, we're all gonna be neutral, and if someone HAS to be a certain alignment, they will), and with that, all those Circle Against X and Smite X spells/abilities are...well, useless. Perhaps for every instance of alignment, we put Artifact? Like, if (for some unknown reason) someone played a Paladin, they would get Smite Construct? Clerics can instead Turn Artifact?

Some possibilities to consider.

Also, are the Ghitu anywhere near Terisiare? Because I would think Dragonfire Adept would be an appropriate class for them.

vicente408
2008-08-05, 10:52 PM
Ah, thank you for reminding me of The Thran. That's a very good point. I mean, I remembered that Urza and Mishra started out on that dig.

And we had some concerns with clerics and the like. What if some of their spell abilities were to be replaced? I mean, how about instead of having certain spells or whatever, change it up so they get better against Artifacts? We're basically dropping alignment from the game (pretty much, we're all gonna be neutral, and if someone HAS to be a certain alignment, they will), and with that, all those Circle Against X and Smite X spells/abilities are...well, useless. Perhaps for every instance of alignment, we put Artifact? Like, if (for some unknown reason) someone played a Paladin, they would get Smite Construct? Clerics can instead Turn Artifact?

Some possibilities to consider.

Also, are the Ghitu anywhere near Terisiare? Because I would think Dragonfire Adept would be an appropriate class for them.

The Ghitu are from Shiv.

Other places on Dominaria could make cool places for settings too. Jamuraa is a pretty big place and if played during the Mirage war could have plenty of political intrigue that could be played off of, as well as big evil forces like Kaervek and Shauku.

Or other planes, even. Ravnica is kick-ass, as is Kamigawa.

mmmmm_PIE
2008-08-05, 11:31 PM
When I think back to the novelization of the Brother's War and its sequels (its been a few years, but they're gathering dust on my bookshelf if you have any specific question) the images and themes that come back clearest are of Mithra's early Phyrexian-esque monstrosities: blood and oil coating muscle and metal fused in the most abhorent way possible. If you're playing for Argive or Argoth, these are your principle foes. If you're playing for Fallaji, especially late in the war, or for Kolios this is your primary fluff.

Dominaria is strangely huge for a fantasy world, and even if you won't be leaving Terisiare (likely the case), you have quite the continent to play in. For a quick reference, wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terisiare) ain't bad.

There are three two supernatural power sources at play here.
On one hand the very good nature goddess Gaea (a Thran ascended by absorbing a rediculous amount of pure white mana) who lends herself to alternatively flavored clerics and druids and is revered by elves (Or half-elves if that's how you'll play it). her power base is the island of Argoth.
On the other hand the very evil techno-biological Demon Gix (A Phyrexian general) who lends himself to alternatively flavored artificers and all kinds of mechanically 'enhanced' warriors. His power base is the ruined city of Kolios, though he his agents across the continent. His influence over Mishra and Fallaji grows signifigantly over time.

Much more prominent than either of these powers, however, is modern artifice which Urza and Mishra build from the ruins of the Thran. This lends itself to an artificer and warrior classes very differently flavored from what Gix offers. Note that the construction of deadly flying machines, utterly massive siege engines is common, and even advanced robotics is common. IFRC, Mishra has what amounts to a Warforged dragon for a mount.

There are certainly wizards about, but there powers tend to be very specialized (each wizard is very good at one thing, and one thing only). Some very strict school-specialization house-rules would be more appropriate then a complete magic-nerf. Note that arcane magic (blue manna, basically) is very different than what powers the world's artifice.

Its a cool world (Though not anywhere near as cool, IMHO, as the same plane immediately prior to The Thaw, which I consider one of the top five fantasy settings of all time). Have fun with it!

Deth Muncher
2008-08-05, 11:57 PM
When I think back to the novelization of the Brother's War and its sequels (its been a few years, but they're gathering dust on my bookshelf if you have any specific question) the images and themes that come back clearest are of Mithra's early Phyrexian-esque monstrosities: blood and oil coating muscle and metal fused in the most abhorent way possible. If you're playing for Argive or Argoth, these are your principle foes. If you're playing for Fallaji, especially late in the war, or for Kolios this is your primary fluff.

Dominaria is strangely huge for a fantasy world, and even if you won't be leaving Terisiare (likely the case), you have quite the continent to play in. For a quick reference, wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terisiare) ain't bad.

There are three two supernatural power sources at play here.
On one hand the very good nature goddess Gaea (a Thran ascended by absorbing a rediculous amount of pure white mana) who lends herself to alternatively flavored clerics and druids and is revered by elves (Or half-elves if that's how you'll play it). her power base is the island of Argoth.
On the other hand the very evil techno-biological Demon Gix (A Phyrexian general) who lends himself to alternatively flavored artificers and all kinds of mechanically 'enhanced' warriors. His power base is the ruined city of Kolios, though he his agents across the continent. His influence over Mishra and Fallaji grows signifigantly over time.

Much more prominent than either of these powers, however, is modern artifice which Urza and Mishra build from the ruins of the Thran. This lends itself to an artificer and warrior classes very differently flavored from what Gix offers. Note that the construction of deadly flying machines, utterly massive siege engines is common, and even advanced robotics is common. IFRC, Mishra has what amounts to a Warforged dragon for a mount.

There are certainly wizards about, but there powers tend to be very specialized (each wizard is very good at one thing, and one thing only). Some very strict school-specialization house-rules would be more appropriate then a complete magic-nerf. Note that arcane magic (blue manna, basically) is very different than what powers the world's artifice.

Its a cool world (Though not anywhere near as cool, IMHO, as the same plane immediately prior to The Thaw, which I consider one of the top five fantasy settings of all time). Have fun with it!

At the current point in time, I believe we're doing it where Argoth hasn't quite been "discovered" yet: I mean, this is the island where they ended up washing up on, yes? It's been a yearish since I've read it, so I'm not always that clear.

And I think we're all, for the most part, going to be on the goodish side of things, so probbably not as much of the allying with Gix/Yawgmoth/Phyrexians kind of thing.

And the DM is placing a huge magic restricion based on the assumption that...actually, I don't really know why.

Someone on Brilliant Gameologists reccomended something of the Magic Nodes from Faerun?

vicente408
2008-08-06, 12:33 AM
On one hand the very good nature goddess Gaea (a Thran ascended by absorbing a rediculous amount of pure white mana)

This is generally considered to be untrue. The only character to make this claim was Yawgmoth, who, at the time of making the statement, was a bit unstable. However plausible it may be the Gaea is actually Rebbec, Yawgmoth also referred to the Weatherlight as Rebbec, so it's pretty clear that he's just projecting her onto anything that opposes him. He's not quite all there, what with the corrupting near-godlike power and such.

Just saying. It's quite vague as to what Gaea really is, if she/it really does exist. Gaea is considered to be the spirit or embodiment of the plane, specifically Nature. There have been a few occurrences that have been attributed as Gaea's doing, such as the emergence of the Kavu during the Phyrexian Invasion, but I don't think there's any definite proof of her existing as a definite entity. That said, she's the closest thing to a god on Dominaria, I'm not aware of anything else considered as such beyond local religious beliefs in certain regions.

Edit: Here (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Countries_of_Terisiare_at_the_Time_of_The_Brothers '_War) is a page that might have some helpful information regarding the various nations of Terisiare. There's a map at the bottom of the page as well.

llamamushroom
2008-08-06, 04:42 AM
I'd probably say that, instead of having traditional spellcasters, you have people who 'channel' the power of 'gods' (like Gaea or Yawgmoth) and planeswalkers (like Serra). Perhaps even treating them a little like the Dragon Disciple class - you start out able to do a couple of things tied to your power-source, and slowly change until you become a living embodiment of that source.

Also, it would be cool if you just had people devoted to a certain colour of mana.

Why not do away with morality/ethicity thingies and instead go with colours - not only are they a lot more multifaceted, but they also fit in with the world better.

Was phasing in the set you're basing this in? 'Cos that would be so cool

Finally, have the viashino. I don't care if they don't come in until later, or are from a completely different continent. They are awesome... come to think of it, they're like gigantic kobolds.

Deth Muncher
2008-08-06, 04:57 AM
Was phasing in the set you're basing this in? 'Cos that would be so cool

Finally, have the viashino. I don't care if they don't come in until later, or are from a completely different continent. They are awesome... come to think of it, they're like gigantic kobolds.

Phasing? As in, the early form of Vanishing or something? I seem to remember a card, Paralax Somethingsomething...in any event, I don't know.

And the Viashino. Aren't they miles away with the Ghitu?

Speaking of Kobolds...so help me, I'm going to build The Clockwork Armor and go to the Kher Mountains to see if I can't slaughter me some tiny lizard-folk.

Quietus
2008-08-06, 05:07 AM
Phasing? As in, the early form of Vanishing or something? I seem to remember a card, Paralax Somethingsomething...in any event, I don't know.

It's been years since I touched any M:tG cards, but that was during the time when I started playing... I started when Ice Age was nearing its apex, and stopped around Urza's Saga. Phasing, I remember being from the saga that came between those two, most prominently on some kind of blue wyvern - and if memory serves, it was one of those "This is a cool monster/item, it doesn't cost much mana to summon, but it's got a big downside" abilities. Assuming I'm remembering correctly, what it basically did was every other turn, you'd flip the card, and it was considered out of play for that turn. Couldn't be affected by spells or abilities, but it also couldn't attack or defend.

Though if I'm mistaken, I assume someone will correct me. :smalltongue:

llamamushroom
2008-08-06, 05:26 AM
Yep, that's pretty much phasing. Essentially, at the beginning of the upkeep (why is it never the end or middle?), all cards with phasing that are in play are phased out, and all cards (no matter what) that are phased out are phased in at the same time. Being phased out is basically like being removed from the game, but you keep all enchantments and equipment - I think those are also phased out along with the card they're attached to.

Anyhoo, it would make for a really annoying villain. If each of their spells, say, did 2d6 damage and phased out the target, that would mean they'd be able to take out one opponent per round! And if they needed to make a quick getaway, or at least a getaway, or at least stop themselves from dying, they could just phase themselves out every round.

Who cares where the viashino are? Just shoehorn them in, anyway! Maybe Mishra's monstrosities are using parts from Shivan Dragons, so the viashino are getting all tetchy.

Deth Muncher
2008-08-08, 06:04 PM
Right, so we did our prelogues [sic] today (as our DM calls them). Watch out, Playgrounders, as this references bits of The Brothers' War book, and may contain SPOILERS.

Apparently, my character (a Human Artificer) had much the same thing as what happened to Urza and Mishra happen to them: as a child of wealthy nobles in X_Town (this town being the one that sounds like Pendragon and is where U&M are from), he had lots of random trinkets and gizmos and doodads to fiddle and tinker with. Then at age 10, he went to go work at a digsite, where he hung around the Fallaji, dug stuff up from the Thran era, and stays there until age 17, when he leaves. A few days later, it is found that the funding has been cut and one of the head researchers is found dead (yeah, you guys remember that? Mhm.), but there is a "Grand Artificer" in Y_Town (this being that town in the southern part of the continent past Kher Ridge), and so I'm headed off in that direction.


That being said, what are some nifty things that one could build in a Dominaria setting? I mean, at some point, I'd like to hybridize the Clockwork Armor of Eberron and the Ornithopter of MTG into one, amazing piece of flying armor.

Related Artificer Questions: Also, isn't there an Alternate Class Feature for artificers that lets them replace their homonculous? And is there any set number of infusions I can use per day? Or do I just do them to my heart's content?

vicente408
2008-08-09, 01:56 AM
First city is Penregon. Second is either Kroog or Korlis... which side of the Kher Ridge is it on?

Reinboom
2008-08-09, 02:25 AM
Yep, that's pretty much phasing. Essentially, at the beginning of the upkeep (why is it never the end or middle?), all cards with phasing that are in play are phased out, and all cards (no matter what) that are phased out are phased in at the same time. Being phased out is basically like being removed from the game, but you keep all enchantments and equipment - I think those are also phased out along with the card they're attached to.

It's the beginning because:

1. cards need consistency
2. the "middle" would be near impossible to define. phases in magic really only exist as 'states', they are gone when both players pass on them. When is the middle? When the active player passes priority for the first time?
3. The end would be easier to define (when all players pass during the phase), but... having something trigger at that time causes something very much akin to some of the oddities that occur during certain playable events in the cleanup phase (things that trigger when you discard, usually) in that it would have to 'spawn' a new step period in order to actually play these abilities.
4. Combine the top two: The game would just become even more convoluted and confusing to new players, and that's really not easy to describe on a single card.


And phasing was a major theme in Mirage (1996). This is not the same continent, or time period.

Also, great idea for a campaign setting, though, a little strange.
Are you going to play it as though the ice age is inevitable, or, are you all going to have free range on changing the course of events?

Deth Muncher
2008-08-09, 11:21 AM
First city is Penregon. Second is either Kroog or Korlis... which side of the Kher Ridge is it on?

Correct. City X is Penregon, and City Y is Kroog. It saddens me as well, because during the "prelogue" where I was going across Kher Ridge, my DM had me roll d%, and I rolled really low. Had I rolled higher, I was going to have a fight with Kobolds/Goblins.



It's the beginning because:

1. cards need consistency
2. the "middle" would be near impossible to define. phases in magic really only exist as 'states', they are gone when both players pass on them. When is the middle? When the active player passes priority for the first time?
3. The end would be easier to define (when all players pass during the phase), but... having something trigger at that time causes something very much akin to some of the oddities that occur during certain playable events in the cleanup phase (things that trigger when you discard, usually) in that it would have to 'spawn' a new step period in order to actually play these abilities.
4. Combine the top two: The game would just become even more convoluted and confusing to new players, and that's really not easy to describe on a single card.


And phasing was a major theme in Mirage (1996). This is not the same continent, or time period.

Also, great idea for a campaign setting, though, a little strange.
Are you going to play it as though the ice age is inevitable, or, are you all going to have free range on changing the course of events?

You know? We haven't even talked about the Ice Age. I'm pretty sure right now the timeline is scaling perfectly with Urza/Mishra's stories. I mean, apparently, I didn't know them, but my backstory is borrowed heavily from theirs, and it seems I left my digsite days before they ended up killing their digsite leader (whose name escapes me at the moment).

Ganurath
2008-08-09, 12:19 PM
Heh, Tim the Prodigal. But roll back the age-o-meter to the era of the Brothers' War. Was there all that much casting at the time? (This is a serious question, not sarcasm.)Not really. People depended heavily upon artifice to get the most out of the world's magic. However, Argoth had more than a few druids defending it. Then there were the Phyrexians...

Oh! Have the warlock's flavor tie to Phyrexians!

Deth Muncher
2008-08-09, 12:23 PM
Not really. People depended heavily upon artifice to get the most out of the world's magic. However, Argoth had more than a few druids defending it. Then there were the Phyrexians...

Oh! Have the warlock's flavor tie to Phyrexians!

Actually, I don't know if the warlock is going to be around now. That player got promoted to DM.

vicente408
2008-08-09, 04:16 PM
Aww, yeah, Gixian Warlocks would be kick-ass. Too bad. Well, maybe your DM can use that idea for some bad guys. That idea is too cool to pass up.

Deth Muncher
2008-08-09, 04:20 PM
Aww, yeah, Gixian Warlocks would be kick-ass. Too bad. Well, maybe your DM can use that idea for some bad guys. That idea is too cool to pass up.

Oh hecks yes.

Now wait, I know there's a Temple of Gix in the middle-ish of Terisiere. Would these Warlocks make good clergymen, or should there be Clerics of Gix?

Jack Mann
2008-08-09, 04:35 PM
-Monks, artificers and warlocks are OK, as well as Enlightened Fist.

So, you're allowing the strongest class in the game, and two of the weakest? That doesn't quite seem right, somehow...

vicente408
2008-08-09, 04:49 PM
Oh hecks yes.

Now wait, I know there's a Temple of Gix in the middle-ish of Terisiere. Would these Warlocks make good clergymen, or should there be Clerics of Gix?

Why not both? A Warlock is an individual who has made a pact of some sort with Gix or with Phyrexia. They cement this contract by sacrificing a portion of their flesh (maybe an arm or something) and replacing it with improved Phyrexian technology. This could be the source of their Eldritch blasts as well. A cleric would be someone who worships the power of Phyrexia and Yawgmoth, but has not made that bodily sacrifice.