The Emporer vs. Xykon

[fraud]

if Darth Sidious from Star Wars were to fight Xykon who would win?

Xykon can't be harmed by Force Lightining because he's immune to lightining and he can't suffer from Force Choke but Darth Sidious could easily slice him up with his lightsaber.

[Emperor Tippy]

Are we going with the EU Emperor or the movie Emperor?

Either way I would probable say the Emperor, if only because he has a brain. A wizard/sorcerer who knows what they are doing (and if you play with real physics) can create c-fractional missiles with no real effort. And I don't care how good Star War's shields are, a 1000 pound object traveling at .9999999999999 c and appearing inside its target will vaporize it (its equivalent to a 48 petaton explosion). Hell, it would put a good dent in a planet.

[Cybren]

The emperor is also in command of a type 2 Kardashev civilization. (that is to say, the Galactic empire is capable of harnessing the output of an entire star system.) it is two differences of scale that no amount of skeletons and zombies could overcome. In anything but a one on one dual, Palpatine wins. (And on that matter, it always bothered me that they actually had palpatine and yoda fight in episode 3. it was so common i found it hard to believe. Yoda fighting also annoyed me what with all the acrobatics. He should have at least done something cool like used thirty lightsabers with the force)

[Emperor Tippy]

Again, being in command of a type 2 civilization is nothing compared to what D&D magic can do if used properly. Xykon just doesn't use it properly.

D&D is beyond the laws of thermodynamics.

[Emperor Tippy]

Incidentally, D&D could actually feed Coruscant. And it would only cost 69,444,450,000 GP. D&D could also handle their waste and heat problems.

[Selrahc]

A wizard/sorcerer who knows what they are doing (and if you play with real physics) can create c-fractional missiles with no real effort.

Go on then. Explain that one. I love reading these tricks.

As a side note, I would say that the Emperor in the movies, in a white room match up against Xykon would get beaten. Xykon is flat out immune to electricity. He has a solid damage reduction against most things the Emperor could throw at him and a boat load of hit points to help him out against lightsabers. The Emperor has very little he could do to hurt Xykon. And Xykon has a lot of artillery to take out the much more fragile Emperor.

In the EU the Emperor did stuff like defeat entire space fleets on his own, so I would definitely downgrade Xykons chances from "Excellent" to "Miniscule" if it was EU Emperor.

[Emperor Ing]

I think the battle should be just this:

The Emperor (darth sidious) and Xykon are in an arena. There is no escape, none possible, unless either Xykon or Sidious are defeated.

I think Sidious has this in the bag. He has a brain, he can reflect projectile attacks, he's a great spellcaster, and I would believe his Will and Reflex saves would be astronomical.
And all Sidious has to do is chop up Xykon nicely with his lightsaber, problem solved. :smallwink:

[SilverSheriff]

I concur, Sidious is the one antagonist I dread fighting against, he has a Lightsabre and tons of force powers, none of which are limited to simple titled tricks, he could do a lot more than a 'Force choke', maybe even a 'force crush all the bones in your body into dust'.

[Emperor Tippy]

Go on then. Explain that one. I love reading these tricks.

Step 1: Turn etheral and head down under a mountain a ways.
Step 2: Cast a transdimensional disintegrate to make a cave. Cast disintegrate repeatedly until you have a 20x20x20 foot room.
Step 3: Fill a bag of holding with adamantium.
Step 4: Shapechange into a golem
Step 5: Use Fabricate to turn the adamantium into a hollow column that has a hollow section 15 meters long and 5 wide in the middle and walls 1 foot thick. 5 meters from the bottom should be a small shelf that sticks out an inch or so and runs around the entire column.
Step 6: Use greater teleportation to teleport the acceleration chamber, standing vertical, into its hole.
Step 7: Use Stone Shape to make a base that will hold the acceleration chamber firm.
Step 8: Create a small construct using the feat Rudimentary Intelligence to give in an Intelligence score.
Step 9: Cast Telepathic Bond on the construct.
Step 10: Make the bond permanent.
Step 11: Teleport the construct into the bottom of the acceleration chamber.
Step 12: Give the construct a ring gate on a 5 foot tall metal pole.
Step 13: Use Soverign Glue to glue a ring gate to the top of the acceleration chamber (not linked to the constructs gate, and so that items come out the end pointing down and from now on referred to as RG 2).
Step 14: Cast Teleportation Circle on the shelf, it should teleport to right below the top of the acceleration chamber.
Step 15: Make it permanent.

Ammunition:
Step 1: Create an adamantium missile that weighs less than 100 pounds.
Step 2: Use Animate Object to animate the missile.
Step 3: Make Animate Object permanent.
Step 4: Use Craft Contingent Spell to put a contingent Energy Immunity (Fire) spell on said object with an activation condition of "Touches air after the phrase "Arm Missile Number (Insert missile number here)" is spoken and then not touching air for at least 30 seconds.

Arming:
Step 1: Select a missile and speak its arming phrase.
Step 2: Drop the missile through the ring gate linked RG 2 one.

Firing:
Step 1: Place the ring gate linked to the one the golem has above your target
Step 2: Order the golem in the bottom of the acceleration chamber to raise his ring gate up through the teleportation circle.

If you need more range (recommended when using c-fractional missiles) or want a bigger payload then make use of more teleportation circles. Remove the construct and ring gates. Cast a Teleportation Circle that is outside the Acceleration Chamber and teleports to the very top inside of it.

When you want to fire just teleport into the bottom of the acceleration chamber, cast a teleportation circle that teleports to your target, and then just cast dispel magic on the first teleportation circle (it is now disabled for 10 minutes). The missile falls through and hits the TC that takes it to its target.

Incidentally, if you want to improve the yield add in another contingent spell. A contingent resilient sphere set to go off around the missile as soon as it emerges from the teleport. This stops over penetration and allows for a more complete transfer of energy. Once the resilient sphere ends (7 minutes after the teleport) whatever the target was is gone. Wall of Force works as well, except you have to make sure not to aim for a target directly below because the wall of force has to be vertical.

If you want faster acceleration use a higher gravity world.

With earth standard gravity it would take 30,591,067.1 seconds or about 355 days to reach a velocity so close to c as to be indistinguishable.

[d'Bwobsling]

All Xykon needs to do is fly out of reach of the Emporer, then he can blast him with energy drains and meteor swarms. The Emporer doesn't seem to have many hit points, and his spells would most likely be useful against Xykon

[Dervag]

Again, being in command of a type 2 civilization is nothing compared to what D&D magic can do if used properly. Xykon just doesn't use it properly.

D&D is beyond the laws of thermodynamics.Thing is, Xykon doesn't know about that exploit.

I am sure it is within your power to cook up some way to use D&D spells to set up relativistic missile strikes when you are allowed to use an arbitrary combination of spells and physical laws that may or may not apply to the products of those spells. You're very, very good at that kind of thing.

But the character Xykon isn't going to try it because he doesn't know about relativistic missiles. He knows about D&D spells, but he doesn't have the kind of metagaming knowledge of physics that you bring to the table. Moreover, it is likely that his knowledge of his own universe is not as vast and encyclopedic as yours, since you spend a lot of time hunting for these exploits.

So you're right. "Xykon doesn't use D&D magic properly." That said, can he beat Palpatine using his improperly used magic, which is used in the way that pretty much all D&D characters represented in fiction use it? Or would he have to use your unprecedented God-button tactics to use it?

[tanonx]

I think this really depends on whose ruleset we're using. I mean, if it's Xykon bringing his spells into the Star Wars universe, I'm actually under the impression that Sidious would be toast, courtesy of low level spells being perfectly lethal and not measured in hit points. After all, Magic Missile never misses, and so far as I know, Sidious has nothing by way of actual armor so much as mega-Force-deflection powers.

[Lorn]

Step 1: Turn etheral and head down under a mountain a ways.
Step 2: Cast a transdimensional disintegrate to make a cave. Cast disintegrate repeatedly until you have a 20x20x20 foot room.
Step 3: Fill a bag of holding with adamantium.
Step 4: Shapechange into a golem
Step 5: Use Fabricate to turn the adamantium into a hollow column that has a hollow section 15 meters long and 5 wide in the middle and walls 1 foot thick. 5 meters from the bottom should be a small shelf that sticks out an inch or so and runs around the entire column.
Step 6: Use greater teleportation to teleport the acceleration chamber, standing vertical, into its hole.
Step 7: Use Stone Shape to make a base that will hold the acceleration chamber firm.
Step 8: Create a small construct using the feat Rudimentary Intelligence to give in an Intelligence score.
Step 9: Cast Telepathic Bond on the construct.
Step 10: Make the bond permanent.
Step 11: Teleport the construct into the bottom of the acceleration chamber.
Step 12: Give the construct a ring gate on a 5 foot tall metal pole.
Step 13: Use Soverign Glue to glue a ring gate to the top of the acceleration chamber (not linked to the constructs gate, and so that items come out the end pointing down and from now on referred to as RG 2).
Step 14: Cast Teleportation Circle on the shelf, it should teleport to right below the top of the acceleration chamber.
Step 15: Make it permanent.

Ammunition:
Step 1: Create an adamantium missile that weighs less than 100 pounds.
Step 2: Use Animate Object to animate the missile.
Step 3: Make Animate Object permanent.
Step 4: Use Craft Contingent Spell to put a contingent Energy Immunity (Fire) spell on said object with an activation condition of "Touches air after the phrase "Arm Missile Number (Insert missile number here)" is spoken and then not touching air for at least 30 seconds.

Arming:
Step 1: Select a missile and speak its arming phrase.
Step 2: Drop the missile through the ring gate linked RG 2 one.

Firing:
Step 1: Place the ring gate linked to the one the golem has above your target
Step 2: Order the golem in the bottom of the acceleration chamber to raise his ring gate up through the teleportation circle.
Question.

Just how long is this going to take, in rounds? Rounds in with Sidious could be attacking, force-whatevering, or anything else he feels like?

[Manga Shoggoth]

[QUOTE=Emperor Tippy;4659770]Step 1: Turn etheral and head down under a mountain a ways.
Step 2: Cast a transdimensional disintegrate to make a cave. Cast disintegrate repeatedly until you have a 20x20x20 foot room.
Step 3: Fill a bag of holding with adamantium.
Step 4: Shapechange into a golem
Step 5: Use Fabricate to turn the adamantium into a hollow column that has a hollow section 15 meters long and 5 wide in the middle and walls 1 foot thick. 5 meters from the bottom should be a small shelf that sticks out an inch or so and runs around the entire column.
Step 6: Use greater teleportation to teleport the acceleration chamber, standing vertical, into its hole.
Step 7: Use Stone Shape to make a base that will hold the acceleration chamber firm.
Step 8: Create a small construct using the feat Rudimentary Intelligence to give in an Intelligence score.
Step 9: Cast Telepathic Bond on the construct.
Step 10: Make the bond permanent.
Step 11: Teleport the construct into the bottom of the acceleration chamber.
Step 12: Give the construct a ring gate on a 5 foot tall metal pole.
Step 13: Use Soverign Glue to glue a ring gate to the top of the acceleration chamber (not linked to the constructs gate, and so that items come out the end pointing down and from now on referred to as RG 2).
Step 14: Cast Teleportation Circle on the shelf, it should teleport to right below the top of the acceleration chamber.
Step 15: Make it permanent.

Ammunition:
Step 1: Create an adamantium missile that weighs less than 100 pounds.
Step 2: Use Animate Object to animate the missile.
Step 3: Make Animate Object permanent.
Step 4: Use Craft Contingent Spell to put a contingent Energy Immunity (Fire) spell on said object with an activation condition of "Touches air after the phrase "Arm Missile Number (Insert missile number here)" is spoken and then not touching air for at least 30 seconds.

Arming:
Step 1: Select a missile and speak its arming phrase.
Step 2: Drop the missile through the ring gate linked RG 2 one.

Firing:
Step 1: Place the ring gate linked to the one the golem has above your target
Step 2: Order the golem in the bottom of the acceleration chamber to raise his ring gate up through the teleportation circle.

Although I hate to take part in a Vs thread, I have to comment on this one. It's a nice idea, but has a couple of flaws:

1. The chamber will have to be perfectly evacuated, or the missile will simply reach terminal velocity and then stop accelerating.

2. There will have to be some way of making sure that both the chamber is perfectly vertical and that the missile's path is also perfectly vertical. If not the missile will eventually impact the side of the chamber. This will (a) slow it down, and (b) probably start it bouncing around the chamber. (The first bounce will give the missile a spin, successive ines will be ... bad)

3. (And at this point I am on to speculation as Relativity gives me a headache) As the missile's speed increases, its relative mass will increase. Eventually it will reach a point when its local gravitational field will be strong enough to collapse its surroundings (Or some other effect will moderate the speed)

(Note: Relativity throws out all the "usual" views of physics. Beware of relativistic speeds...)

[FujinAkari]

Question.

Just how long is this going to take, in rounds? Rounds in with Sidious could be attacking, force-whatevering, or anything else he feels like?

Since step 1 is to Turn Etherial, all of Sidious' attacks miss.

[Hung Lo]

If we assume that the Emperor's powers are drawn from "class levels" - then we have seen that Xykon can break down an epic-level opponent with Energy Drain (Dorukan).

The Emperor could probably deflect energy attacks such as Meteor Swarm using the Force.

Xykon can fly, but the Emperor can TK his body weight off the ground, like Yoda can.

Xykon is probably not resistant to lightsaber damage, but he has lots of hit points.

The Emperor would have an advantage in being able to see the future, so he may get some clue on how to defeat Xykon. They are evenly matched in their lack of morals, so no tactic would be too evil for them to use (like the Emperor calling in Star Destroyers for a saturation turbolaser bombardment).

I think Xykon isn't dumb when it comes to his powers or fighting epic-level foes - he knows how to kill, he's been doing it for more than one lifetime.

So I think it's pretty even - but it gets more interesting if you throw in the number 2 men...

Redcloak vs. Darth Vader! :smalltongue:

[Lord Iames Osari]

Redcloak vs. Vader? Assuming that they start within visual ange of each other?

Vader.

Force Choke => inability to speak => no verbal spell components => one dead goblin.

[Hung Lo]

What if Redcloak gets initiative?

Destruction!

And Vader goes <POOF!> (if Vader fails his save, of course)

So it's not so one-sided... if Vader backs Redcloak into a corner, his lightsaber will finish the match easily.

Yet Redcloak would be aware of this (actually having a clue about most things) and might throw large Summons to distract Vader while he pelts him with 9th level spells...

[Kato]

I don't think much of the emperor... though I only know the movies. I'd give Xykon the point, since his level of spellcasting includes various spells as Disintegrate or Finger of Death, which mean instant death onto the whimpy emperor :P Though, we have to guess how much a skeleton is affected by the force. But even if he could let's say throw him all around or choke him (lol) he'd not receive much damage from it. As to the 'crush his bones' argument... I've never seen either a Jedi nor a Sith do that, though it was probably possible, it means their is either a restriction or some other reason they don't do the like. (And if not, Xykon probably has an ace up his sleeve for that one) Light saber againt Xykon... We do know he doesn't care much about being beheaded, so what shall he do? Pulverize him? Good luck.

RC vs Vader... might be up to who gets first strike. A Disintegrate or the like would be deathly, but choking or other attacks might work best, which means whoever can deal damage faster will win.

[d'Bwobsling]

It depends if you mean the young Vader without his suit, or the old one that has a dex of -3

[Da'Shain]

Since step 1 is to Turn Etherial, all of Sidious' attacks miss.Well, all of his attacks which aren't Force.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Cybren]

Again, being in command of a type 2 civilization is nothing compared to what D&D magic can do if used properly. Xykon just doesn't use it properly.

D&D is beyond the laws of thermodynamics.

I don't think there's much response to having your planet asploded from astronomical distances by a small moon space station.

[Krrth]

Well, all of his attacks which aren't Force.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

...if it makes you feel any better, I was thinking the exact same thing...

[Emperor Tippy]

I don't think there's much response to having your planet asploded from astronomical distances by a small moon space station.

Not letting it happen. Divinations + Teleport mean that you take out the death star before it attacks you.

[Ubiq]

In a one-on-one fight, I'd pick Xykon. Palpatine's Force abilities aren't going to accomplish all that much (Force Push will probably be the most effective though, especially if it breaks Xykon's concentration) and closing to within lightsabre range of a Lich doesn't seem like the best idea in the world.


And I don't care how good Star War's shields are, a 1000 pound object traveling at .9999999999999 c and appearing inside its target will vaporize it (its equivalent to a 48 petaton explosion). Hell, it would put a good dent in a planet.

Well, inside of the target sure. Outside of the target... not so much. The Executor had three ISDs slam into her shields and shrugged it off. Since the ISDs were in the process of coming out of hyperspace at the time, they may well have been traveling at near .c at the time.


The emperor is also in command of a type 2 Kardashev civilization. (that is to say, the Galactic empire is capable of harnessing the output of an entire star system.)

That's rather low isn't it? Wikipedia lists a Type 2 civilization as generating power in the E27 range, which is less than what I've seen listed for the Executor's reactor (E28 range).

[kamikasei]

That's rather low isn't it? Wikipedia lists a Type 2 civilization as generating power in the E27 range, which is less than what I've seen listed for the Executor's reactor (E28 range).

It's not exactly a fine-grained scale. To bump the Empire up to a Type 3 it'd have to be capable of harnessing all the energy output of an entire galaxy.

[Trixie]

Um, you do realize that the Emperor has official 3.5 edition stats?

A few nitpicks:

1) F.L. doesn't deal electrical damage, it deals darkside damage. I'm pretty sure Xykon isn't immune to that.
2) Emperor has lightsaber (I don't remember his stats, but I can look them up, if you want) dealing around 7d8-9d8 damage per attack. While L.S. isn't magical or bludgeoning, it does ignore DR and most probably is masterworked up to +5 modifier to both attack and damage. Even 5 attacks equal 170+ damage.
3) Force grip, as written, would actually damage Xykon.
4) Both Emperor & Vader do have a pretty useful pool of force points, with a high bonus due to their levels.
5) I don't remember what powers they have, but if they do have suggestion...
or absorption - they would simply add magical attacks to their own.
6) SW 3.5 uses wound points as well, but I don't remember what happens when you attack someone with no WPs at all. Auto kill? Or does it occur only after they lose all HPs?

[Theodoriph]

If we're just going off the movie, Xykon easily. The emperor in the movie was just a regular human. Class levels and hitpoints don't exist for those of us who don't live in a game worlds with game mechanics as our laws of physics. A magic missile to the temple or the throat would probably kill him.

[Ubiq]

It's not exactly a fine-grained scale. To bump the Empire up to a Type 3 it'd have to be capable of harnessing all the energy output of an entire galaxy.

Wikipedia says that Kardashev suggested a Type 3 civilization would produce energy in the E37 range; estimates of what the DS1 did to Alderaan peg it in the E36 range. A completed DS2 would have about 125 times the volume and a much more massive reactor as a result. Considering that the DS2 was a secret military project that reputedly had all of its materials transported by a single shipping firm, then the Empire should have been capable of much, much more if they openly devoted all of the resources at their disposal.

If nothing else, they're well past a Type 2 civilization. Your average ISD alone has a reactor within an order of magnitude to a Type 2 civilization's entire output.

[Selrahc]

MEthodology on missiles

So if I understand this right, you have a teleportation loop and a chamber without a terminal velocity? Wouldn't the missile just splinter under the stress? DnD Adamantine has a set hardness and hit point stat, which doesn't look like it could handle near light speeds.

Although I note you said Adamantium rather than Adamantine ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#adamantine ). Is adamantium some purified, unbreakable form of adamantine or somesuch?

I did also have some nagging doubts about the relativity thing, but I don't know enough about physics to have any idea about the effects.


Just how long is this going to take, in rounds? Rounds in with Sidious could be attacking, force-whatevering, or anything else he feels like?

I imagine it will take 1 round. The uber mages tend to have private demiplanes where a minute is equal to a year. Alternatively since the ubermage is intelligence 30 or so he may have had it prepared just in case he needed to fight an enemy in a space ship.


Well, inside of the target sure. Outside of the target... not so much. The Executor had three ISDs slam into her shields and shrugged it off. Since the ISDs were in the process of coming out of hyperspace at the time, they may well have been traveling at near .c at the time.

I imagine the operating procedure is to teleport it into the nice juicy innards of a space ship instead of blasting its shields.

If in fact the shields do hold up to the blow, and the missile is indestructable that would make it even worse, since the hyperfast missile would ricochet around inside the shielding breaking apart the hull in many places, rather than just the one.

[Emperor Tippy]

So if I understand this right, you have a teleportation loop and a chamber without a terminal velocity? Wouldn't the missile just splinter under the stress? DnD Adamantine has a set hardness and hit point stat, which doesn't look like it could handle near light speeds.
What would happen to the missile is anyones guess. We have never accelerated an object up to those kinds of speeds.


Although I note you said Adamantium rather than Adamantine ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#adamantine ). Is adamantium some purified, unbreakable form of adamantine or somesuch?
Nah, just mistyped.


I did also have some nagging doubts about the relativity thing, but I don't know enough about physics to have any idea about the effects.
I know that the yield is correct and I know that the time required to accelerate to such speeds is correct. Not exactly sure about the rest either.


I imagine it will take 1 round. The uber mages tend to have private demiplanes where a minute is equal to a year. Alternatively since the ubermage is intelligence 30 or so he may have had it prepared just in case he needed to fight an enemy in a space ship.
Without messing with time it takes about 355 days to reach that speed. But you can have missiles pretty much stacked end to end in the chamber. A hundred and your at 4.8 exaton's. And thanks to Resilient Sphere you have to deal with the entire energy release.


I imagine the operating procedure is to teleport it into the nice juicy innards of a space ship instead of blasting its shields.
Yeah, but its shields will usally work just fine as well.


If in fact the shields do hold up to the blow, and the missile is indestructable that would make it even worse, since the hyperfast missile would ricochet around inside the shielding breaking apart the hull in many places, rather than just the one.

Thanks too the resilient sphere you don't have to deal with that.

---
Oh, instead of adamantium use Riverrine from Stormwrack. It is immune to damage as it is made out of walls of force. That also solves the stress problems.

[Hung Lo]

Maybe a more dedicated wizard might create a lightspeed mass driver through magic, but Xykon probably wouldn't have the attention span or interest to follow through on such a project.

He can barely keep his mind on getting control of The Snarl, with so many funner distractions close at hand.

Xykon could more easily get behind other incredibly destructive projects - say, if Redcloak were to think of a way to get Xykon aboard a Star Destroyer... a Star Destroyer in orbit around Coruscant?

[Dervag]

I'd compromise and put the Galactic Empire at a 2.5 on the Kardashev scale. It's not difficult for them to build a weapon capable of destroying planets (the Death Star was expensive, but not ruinously so). They can even work out a way to blow up stars if they want to do it badly enough, if you believe the Expanded Universe.

On the other hand, they can't do the kind of "relocate entire star systems" stuff that a 'true' Kardashev Level 3 civilization is supposed to be capable of according to Kardashev.

If they got into a fight with a civilization that fully tapped the power of one star, they'd win handily. But they can't really manipulate all the resources of their galaxy any more than real life humans can really manipulate all the resources of our planet.

[Werewindlefr]

What about the Immortal Emperor of Man vs. Xykon?

[fangthane]

Unfortunately, Tippy's methodology won't work if you DM it right. Lateral deflections due to the moving frame of reference will cause the missile to hit the side of the column and shred the whole thing. I guess you'd call that "underground testing" :)

Because after all, what's "down" now will be "up" in 12 hours. As Bender discovered to his dismay, the laws of physics be a harsh mistress.

[Moff Chumley]

You forgot that that this is D&D.

(Also, centerpoint station.)

[Telonius]

If the fight is held aboard a spaceship, Xykon has a heavy advantage. Just blast a hole in the ship, and laugh as all of the air-breathers die of strangulation.

[Emperor Tippy]

Unfortunately, Tippy's methodology won't work if you DM it right. Lateral deflections due to the moving frame of reference will cause the missile to hit the side of the column and shred the whole thing. I guess you'd call that "underground testing" :)

Because after all, what's "down" now will be "up" in 12 hours. As Bender discovered to his dismay, the laws of physics be a harsh mistress.

Actually thats only a problem if lateral deflections are enough to throw if off over a single iteration (less than a round). The Teleportation Circle at the bottom realigns it every time it ports the missile back to the top.

[Mr. Scaly]

Palpatine wins...he's more of a ham than Xykon, though the X-man does give it a run for his money.

[Bago!!!]

You know, heres a little something.


*Palpatine brings out lightsaber*: *Cackle* Die fool!

Xykon: Alright, I go first. SHATTER!
(Shatters the lightsaber because its a non-magical item)
Palpatine: *Blink*
Xykon: Now lets see.... *Maximized magic missle*


That is how a vs. match would go.

Now as for a battle match.......


Xykon: *Ghostform*, *scry on Palpatine to find where he is*
*Move in on his position*



Xykon isn't stupid, he just gets REALLY bored and makes stupid mistakes/choices. He's epic atleast.

Magic ROCKS!!!

[Talkkno]

You know, heres a little something.


*Palpatine brings out lightsaber*: *Cackle* Die fool!

Xykon: Alright, I go first. SHATTER!
(Shatters the lightsaber because its a non-magical item)
Palpatine: *Blink*
Xykon: Now lets see.... *Maximized magic missle*


T
Thats not true lightsabers are assembled and attuned to a particular Force user using the Force.

[Selrahc]

Thats not true lightsabers are assembled and attuned to a particular Force user using the Force.

A. The Force is different than magic.
B. Even a magic sword still gets shattered. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html

[Hung Lo]

What else can the Emperor do?

A. Cackle evilly
B. Fight with lightsaber
C. Throw Force Lightning
D. See the future
E. Summon Darth Vader
F. Summon Star Destroyers, stormtroopers, etc
G. Manipulate the weak-minded

???

Heh, Shatter on the lightsaber is good - unless the Emperor makes his save, of course.

[Moff Chumley]

What can Xykon do?
a) Anything
b) Anything else

Epic magic kind of wins.

[Bago!!!]

If he could see the future, he would have knowned that force lightening would have been a stupid idea against Mace Windu.

Throwing Lightsaber? Well, presuming that there is a lightsaber.... *OUCH!* But he could very well still be there. And, just so we're clear, Xykon is not weak willed. Impuslive, no doubt but weak willed? Unlikely. Besides, by vertue of being an undead, all mind manipulating effects are totally ineffective toward him, simply because his mind is not all there (if I am correct).

And if I can recall, Xykon has the ability to make viewers laugh while making the protagonist pissed off!

Xykon's Magic Missle still hits automatically, and it does deal a good deal of magic.

You summon darth vader? Shatter his weapon aswell, or, if failing that, lightening bolt. Against darth vader, VERY effective.

Summoning storm troopers and star destroyers? Please, what can they do to Xykon in ethereal form? If its not magic, it doesn't work.

[Krrth]

A. The Force is different than magic.
B. Even a magic sword still gets shattered. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html
An attuned Lightsaber is about as magic as you are going to get. At the very least, it gets a saving throw (like a magic weapon does). ALso, don't forget the force power that can absorb energy, or deflect it back. That maximized magic missle kinda sucks when it gets re-directed at your ethereal self, now doesn't it?

[Inhuman Bot]

[QUOTE=Bago!!!;4670805]
Xykon: Now lets see.... *Maximized Issac's Missle storm*
QUOTE]
That's what you meant, right?

[Mortith]

Well, if your talking about who would win in a war or large scale conflict, most likely the emporer would win. I mean Imperial Star Destroyers Vs. Redcloak's Goblins and some assorted zombies. The emporer controls a whole galaxy when Xykon is having a fair bit of trouble takeing one city.

However, If Luke Skywalker was replaced with Xykon in that duel aboard the 2nd Death star. Xykon would almost assuradly win.
Hes got massive damage reduction, and protective spells. And the emporer probly has like 1 hp cause he is never physically injured.

[Bago!!!]

Attuned lightsaber requires a item of magic, not a item of any other type. Simple as that. Magic and the force are not the same, so they follow different rules.

In a vs. army match, Xykon could stand alone because of ghostform. Lasers can't touch him. Plus, he just needs to find the emporer in order to win. Not too hard, since he has scrying spells.


Deflect magic missle.... I always thought it automatically hit.
And if we put disintergrate.......


He may have that Issac spell, but I don't know for sure.


Xykon may be fickle and easily bored, but he's a goddamn genius. His wisdom is probally just low.

[Jayngfet]

The emperor, Dude can generate hurricanes from halfway across the galaxy, planet sized hurricanes.

[GoC]

The emperor, Dude can generate hurricanes from halfway across the galaxy, planet sized hurricanes.

:smallconfused:

[Feralgeist]

question about force lightning. Is darkside damage in any way similar to negative energy? Cause they both corrupt life forms, and if theyre the same, emperor would unknowingly heal Xykon.

My money is on Xykon, but it doesnt really matter who wins, does it?? i mean, darkside users can just possess someone elses's body, and Xykon will just reform.



Edit: Scratch that, who needs to destroy bodies, just give 'em a good ol' dose of Mindrape.

[Hung Lo]

[QUOTE=Frozen;4694269]question about force lightning. Is darkside damage in any way similar to negative energy? Cause they both corrupt life forms, and if theyre the same, emperor would unknowingly heal Xykon.[QUOTE]

That's an excellent point - that would be a nice surprise for Xykon.

Emp: NOW DIE!
Xykon: Ooooo... that tickles!

Also, Magic Missiles do "force" damage - would that mean that the Emperor's "force" defenses would protect him?

Could a Dark Jedi block a magic missile with a lightsaber? Or just absorb the shot like Darth Vader did when Han Solo shot him with a blaster?

Also, obviously, items such as lightsabers get saving throws from Shatter - the spell description in the PHB says so... even if there are no saving throws in the Star Wars universe, right?

[TheRiov]

Saga Edition isnt that far off from D&D 3.5

Someone roll it out and try it.
Assume force=Magic, force lightning=electrical damage, force push=force damage

But I gotta say force storms (the ability to shatter entire starfleets) trump anything xykon can throw out.

[Ganurath]

Sidious vs Xykon:

Since we're doing single combat, Xykon wins this one. After Sidious finds his force powers don't work on liches and that he can deflect Xykon's choice spells, the lightsaber comes out. Xykon casts Shatter, since he figures the fancy magic sword is the full caster's last resort and wants to piss him off. Eventually, Xykon finds Magic Missile works, and spams Sidious to death.

Vader vs Redcloak:

As it's been stated, whoever acts first wins. Redcloak is smart enough to study a foe with divinations ahead of time, and Vader is stupid enough to preceed every fight with a monologue. Recloak Shatters Vader's life support, and Vaders manages to get a force choke off, but between him dying faster and Redcloak having prepped himself with Spell Resistance, Redcloak wins it.

As for the Magic Missile Force question, in D&D force is mass made of pure magical energy. It'd be like trying to deflect Force Wave in KotOR.

[Sam]

Well, for the person who mentioned the God-Emperor... he would win in any fight.

As for Star Wars vs D&D... convential military Star Wars would treat it as a crime problem. Their weapons are that powerful and they have that many soldiers. If you watch a New Hope, Hans blaster blows holes in the walls- a pistols! You apply that to skeletons or zombies and you make them explode.

As for one on one... the Emperor doesn't show much in the movies, although he is supposed to be stronger than Yoda. As it is he can see the future (and will know that Xykon is coming). To deal with him... rip him apart with the force and bump him in a black hole. Would that work?

Of course, it basically goes down to "who attacks first"- both are strong enough to do one hit KOs.

[chiasaur11]

Well, for the person who mentioned the God-Emperor... he would win in any fight.

As for Star Wars vs D&D... convential military Star Wars would treat it as a crime problem. Their weapons are that powerful and they have that many soldiers. If you watch a New Hope, Hans blaster blows holes in the walls- a pistols! You apply that to skeletons or zombies and you make them explode.

As for one on one... the Emperor doesn't show much in the movies, although he is supposed to be stronger than Yoda. As it is he can see the future (and will know that Xykon is coming). To deal with him... rip him apart with the force and bump him in a black hole. Would that work?

Of course, it basically goes down to "who attacks first"- both are strong enough to do one hit KOs.

1st point: Not quite. Squirrel Girl, the TTGL, and a certain theoretical rules exercise all have more raw fight winning abilities.

2nd point: Both Palpy and Xykon have 1hit kills, sure, but they also have 1 hit kills that wouldn't work. That's a factor too.

[Bago!!!]

You could have the most powerful weapon in starwars as a hand held device for all I cared. If its about 210 pounds, then Xykon can shatter it unless its magical. Force or not, force is not magical. It is powerful, yes but you specifically need a weapon of magic for it to not be affected. Its that simple. And if I recall, Palpatine doesn't have a blaster. His troops might, but that doesn't stop xykon from going ethereal and using his bouncy ball of Insanity!

And you could block magic missle with a weapon if it was done in game, but wait! Its never done that way! Only the spell shield and the brooch of shielding protects people from magical missle. Its an auto hit.

I don't remember Han Solo Blasting holes in the walls, or people for that matter.

No, Yoda was stronger than Sidious, atleast he was until the fall of the order. After the fall, Yoda became much weakened as the Jedi were massacred in the temple. Wait, he can see the future? Well that must have helped against Mace Windu. Oh... Wait, it didn't! He can't see into the future no more than any of the other jedi. He would see his light saber get destroyed, try to stop it but be unable to, would try to shock Xykon while Xykon sends out magic missle/fireballs/lightening bolts/meteors and who knows what?

Take Xykon appart, he's still going to blast Palpy with magic missle.

[Talkkno]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/talkkno/Other/DockingBay94.jpg

[Sholos]

Wouldn't the object get a save for being attended?

[Tyrant]

No, Yoda was stronger than Sidious,
What makes you say that? As I recall, Sidious won.


atleast he was until the fall of the order. After the fall, Yoda became much weakened as the Jedi were massacred in the temple.
He looked like he had a heart attack, but that is quite likely psionic backlash from hundreds (or is it thousands) of powerful lightside force users dying all at once. Sidious was either prepared, didn't care, or was unaffected as he wasn't attached to them personally. The same with Anakin. Yoda showed no loss of ability beyond that.


Wait, he can see the future? Well that must have helped against Mace Windu. Oh... Wait, it didn't! He can't see into the future no more than any of the other jedi.
I suppose saying that he meant for it to go that way would be pointless right? I'm not going to claim his visions are perfect or all encompassing (they are neither), but it is obvious by the assorted lines that we are supposed to believe his ability to foresee things is far greater than normal. If I remember correctly (though I can't recall where I read it) his ability is more along the lines of seeing possible outcomes and then he moves events in the direction he desires. This is why even with setbacks he still turns situations to his advantage (tumbling down the reactor shaft not withstanding). Kind of like a cross between Mace's shatterpoint ability (seeing where lines of influence/importance converge) and foresight. It's not a perfect ability, but it seems to be quite a bit better than the random method the Jedi employ (and seem to want to ignore when possible).


He would see his light saber get destroyed, try to stop it but be unable to, would try to shock Xykon while Xykon sends out magic missle/fireballs/lightening bolts/meteors and who knows what?
If he could see those things wouldn't work, he's smart enough to not try them. Unless there's a specific reason why it can't be done, the force provides ample power to smash Xykon into powder. Seriously, it's telekinesis. Someone wanted examples of bodily destruction. Obviously we have to go beyond the movies (kid movie ratings and all that). In the second Darth Bane book, his apprentice explodes someone's (her borther or cousin if I recall correctly) hand using the force. The hand was still attached to him just before being blasted in case antone wants clarification. Also, the force crush ability in KotoR 2 (at least in the previews that I recall) very clearly bent people's bodies in a very unnatural way with a crunching noise (I believe to indicate breaking the spinal column). Darth Sion, similar to an undead creature by that point, can be very easily beaten by this power. Or we could use common sense and just generally assume that a group that can trigger stars to go nova with their powers can probably pulverize flesh and bone with no real problem. The first Darth Bane book covers why things like this don't happen when Force users fight each other. One of the first things they all learn is how to shield themselves from the powers of others. They are amazed when Bane shatters the shield of one of his opponents. That's why there isn't much of them simply Force pulling each other's weapons out of their hands and things of that nature. It's a defense that can be overcome, but it is there.

Not saying Palpatine would for sure win. Just saying that some of his abilities or potential abilities are being sold pretty short. Especially since some seem to assume magic=/= force and aren't considering the other way to look at that. Palpatine may not have much luck against the magic, but what will Xykon do against the Force? Not saying he's weak minded by any stretch, but his undead immunity shouldn't mean much to something not of D&D origin if we aren't assuming some basic level of compatibility. Also the Force Lightning. It isn't negative energy. Even if it were called that, it isn't energy from the negative energy plane and would therefore not have any chance of healing Xykon.

[Admiral_Kelly]

Xykon wins. The emperor was defeated simply by being picked up and thrown into a pit while his magic was at full power. 'nough said.

[Talkkno]

Xykon wins. The emperor was defeated simply by being picked up and thrown into a pit while his magic was at full power. 'nough said.

He's wasn't killed however and came back with a vengeance.

[Fan]

That was a Clone of epic fail, that turned Luke to the dark side, and he had about a centillion of those. >.>

[Hung Lo]

Is Force Crush a canon Force power? I guess it is, if we saw it in KoToR - but we didn't see the Emperor actually use it in the movies. Maybe he did in a book.

If it were so easy, why would he bother with Force Lightining? He'd just Force Crush Mace Windu (or Luke)... game over.

(Unless Jedi can resist Force Crush by their hold on the Force... no, wait, Revan/The Exile use it to destroy busloads of Sith).

So I'd say it follows in the realm of "plausible" but not strictly canon for the Emperor.

We saw Darth Vader use Force Choke, which might hold Xykon in place but wouldn't strangle him. Also, X doesn't need to breathe to cast spells - undead, see? :smallsmile:

Here's something new - maybe the Emperor observes Xykon blow away stormtroopers or other minions with Magic Missiles.

Then, he could set up a battlefield with force fields (force, see?) or get himself a battle droid shield - that might stop magic missiles... :smallbiggrin:

The Emperor is kind of smart that way, plus he has vast resources at his command. Where do technology, magic, and The Force intersect?

So X vs. The Emperor is not a slam-dunk either way.

[hamishspence]

I got the impression Force choke was a very controlled use of telekinesis on a small area to close the windpipe.

so, even if Emperor cannot suffocate Xykon, he can hurl him around, break bones.

[Steven the Lich]

He's wasn't killed however and came back with a vengeance. Wasn't he on the Death Star 2 when it went Ka boom? Because I don't think even he can survive that, if he even survived his great fall. Which brings me to a question, why did he put a giant pit in his own throne room which someone can toss him into?

Xykon can't be affected by a lot of Sidious' abilities. Lots of spells to dish out too. I don't think a guy as frail as Sidious can take a single hit from the legendary METEOR SHOWER! (In the distance there is an impact) Gotta work on my aim...

[hamishspence]

The Emperor's clones concept in Expanded Universe comic books.

While its been done in D&D as well (Manshoon stasis clones) its the only Star Wars example of villain coming back in material form after death (ghosts, like Exar Kun, have been done)

[LordVader]

Go on then. Explain that one. I love reading these tricks.

As a side note, I would say that the Emperor in the movies, in a white room match up against Xykon would get beaten. Xykon is flat out immune to electricity. He has a solid damage reduction against most things the Emperor could throw at him and a boat load of hit points to help him out against lightsabers. The Emperor has very little he could do to hurt Xykon. And Xykon has a lot of artillery to take out the much more fragile Emperor.

In the EU the Emperor did stuff like defeat entire space fleets on his own, so I would definitely downgrade Xykons chances from "Excellent" to "Miniscule" if it was EU Emperor.

I don't know about that, one Force Push and Xykon's in pieces. I wouldn't put it past him to barrage Xykon with heavy stuff from all sides either, another thing that will render Xykon nearly defenseless, methinks.

Even if it's Movie Emperor, I'd go with him. He can pretty much just rip stuff out of the ground to block Xykon's spells with, and his own paranormal abilities trigger much faster than Xykon's spellcasting, and they do not run out. So, if he keeps Xykon busy for long enough, he runs out of lethal spells and is royally screwed.

[hamishspence]

I'm not sure if damage reduction applies to falling or hurled objects. I'd apply it, since Master Thrower is based around throwing heavy objects at enemies. And they get damage reduction.

So same should apply to telekinetically thrown objects: they would need to be magic (and assumed to do bludgeoning damage) to work on Xykon.

[Rayzin]

The Emperor wins only if Xykon screws up. Probably from being to lazy or Redcloak's not there to back him up.

[LordVader]

I'm not sure if damage reduction applies to falling or hurled objects. I'd apply it, since Master Thrower is based around throwing heavy objects at enemies. And they get damage reduction.

So same should apply to telekinetically thrown objects: they would need to be magic (and assumed to do bludgeoning damage) to work on Xykon.

Yes, but remember, this is not a paper D&D fight, even if his body structure softens the blow a lot, he will still be unable to cast spells, he WILL be taking damage to his bones, and will generally be off-balance and unable to retaliate.

[snoopy13a]

I got the impression Force choke was a very controlled use of telekinesis on a small area to close the windpipe.

so, even if Emperor cannot suffocate Xykon, he can hurl him around, break bones.

That's what I think too. I also always thought that Force Lighting was just creating a static electricity discharge through the Force.

Actually, I'd think that the Emperor would just throw Xykon around like a rag doll with the Force. He can't do this against a powerful jedi because the jedi has been trained to counter it. Jedi like Yoda are even powerful enough to counter force lightning. Thus, master force users often need to resort to lightsabers when fighting each other as the rest of their powers cancel out (see Yoda and Dooku in episode II). But a master jedi against anyone else should be able to just use the force to toss them around at will.

[Selrahc]

Xykon wins. The emperor was defeated simply by being picked up and thrown into a pit while his magic was at full power. 'nough said.

Yeah. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0114.html) :smalltongue:

[Bago!!!]

-PORT!
*all charred and bruised*
The funniest thing happened as I walked by to day. I got hit by meteors!


No, most of the damage from blunt objects would do about the same as anything else in the star wars universe. Why? Because liches have damage reduction magic. Now this may not be a pen and paper battle, but the damage reduction still shows his own defenses as a lich.

Even though he can hurl him around, Xykon has shown that he can take one hell of a beating. TWICE IN ONE DAY! Xykon is still going to send his bolts of magic missle. And once he finishes casting them, they WILL hit. And since he has maximized magic missle, Sidouis' frail body won't stand a chance.

I am sure his powers to see the future worked real well when he was shocking himself with force lightening.

And I think theres a race of people who are excluded from the force entirely right? Could Xykon be immune to the force completely as well, since, like he has total negative energy powering him up? Just saying.

And no, he will still be casting spells. He is epic level, he has the concentration to do it.

Shields probally wouldn't. If he has line of sight, he could hit the guy.

[Steven the Lich]

The funniest thing happened as I walked by to day. I got hit by meteors! Wow, isn't that odd. :smallwink:
Maybe my aim wasn't off at all...

[Sam]

The God Emperor of Mankind would beat anyone. If I remember correctly, he stops time in one book (40K fans could probably give you the description) for everyone but himself and one other individual. He is a literal God and NOT a D&D version. The ones in 40K are brutal.

As for Star Wars Emperor vs Xykon... both of them have instant kill abilities. The Emperor can simply rip Xykon apart and Xykon probably has death spells. If the Emperor got a hand on Xykon, he would probaly try to figure out how he worked and either kill him or give him a planet- Papatine is funny that way.

However, for Xykon to kill the Emperor, he has to do a couple things.
1) Find him. The Emperor rules the galaxy and possibly two satilite galaxies. He lives in a massive palace surrounded by security at all times. The palace itself is probably not on public record. The guards are those guys in red you say on the DS2 who leave before Luke comes in at the Emperor's orders. They are supposed to be the best humanity has to offer.

Of course, this is moot if it is just one on one.

2) Kill him. This basically comes down to "does D&D and Star Wars overlap, or are they treated entirely differantly?" If they overlap, than Palpatine wins- he is simply a more powerful individual. Xykon is a licj who wields epic spells, while the Emperor... in the prequels he essentially stops divination magic from working to put it bluntly.

In one of the Eu stories, he brainwashes... a portion of Coresant's population. It is up for grabs if Wedge is holding the idiot ball and the Emperor simply moved the Super Stardestroyer underground without suspicion or wheter he brainwashed everyone involved.

This is beyond epic level magic- brainwashing an entire solar system!

The Emperor probably didn't do this though. However, he is one of the two most powerful Sith (Vader may have been better), and as such has all the abilites the Sith order accumulated over... 10 milenia I believe.

If you look at the Eu, it ranges from force crush, vaccuum bombing, mind control, possession, control of life and death, the ability to create new living things, the ability to take the laws of physics and make them cry (KOTOR has the Sith making warships and their crews using the force and a powerful artifact).

Of course, Xykon could simply kill someone, flay their skin off and teleport to the Emperor and blow his head of with a blaster. It depends wheter the Emperors ability to see the future extends to Xykon. He has shown absolute trust in his ability to forsee the future (see all three times with Anakin) and when it goes wrong... he dies.

[Tyrant]

-PORT!I am sure his powers to see the future worked real well when he was shocking himself with force lightening.

Yes, actually they were. Think about what he gained as a result of that.
1) Anakin. He forces Mace's hand. Mace is pushed to the point that he knows he has to kill him. Anakin sees his power, but also sees that he is weak and defenseless (a trick, but hey it worked) with Mace about to murder him. Anakin reacts and in so doing Palpatine secures his apprentice. Anakin knew there was no going back after helping to kill Mace. (I don't really need to go on as to how this helped his cause since Anakin alone was worth it, but, why not).
2) He gets the sympathy vote when he announces the sweeping changes to the Republic. He is visibly scarred by what appears to be an attempt at overthrowing the government by the Jedi. That helps win him all the power he needs to finish the creation of the Empire and allows him to spread hatred and distrust of the Jedi (and no one questions Order 66). It also helps to remove the Jedi from the eyes of the public. They were branded traitors and were hunted down.
3) This one's minor at best. He no longer has to hide his true nature (to an extent). His Sith eyes can be blamed on the attack and he can freely walk around in his Sith Master outift.
So, given what he gained as a result coupled with the absolute ease at which he dispatched the B team that Mace brought with him, I believe that was more or less planned out (or was a known possibility).


And I think theres a race of people who are excluded from the force entirely right? Could Xykon be immune to the force completely as well, since, like he has total negative energy powering him up? Just saying.
I'm relatively certain they weren't immune due to being infused with negative energy. The closest Star Wars equivalent, the Dark Side, isn't immune to the Light Side and vice versa. IT's not an absolutely perfect comparison becuase as far as I know, Sith Lightning can hurt other Sith, unlike negative energy and the undead it infuses.

[Sholos]

I'd like to point out that that Xykon will not be able to port in and successfully blow Sidious' head off with a blaster. Aside from the Jedis' known tendencies to laugh at blasters, Sidious probably has the ability to block blaster shots with just the Force.

[Hung Lo]

It wouldn't be out of character for Xykon to try to cap someone with a blaster if he got his hands on on... just for lulz to see what it does.

It's true that it wouldn't work on the Emperor.

[Steven the Lich]

Tyrant has a point with Sidious' being zapped with his own lightning (Though it seems peculiar that he chose to zap himself). However... There is one known point of time when his future seeing attacks have failed... In fact, multiple points if I may speculate.

Future sight... Meet exploding Death Star! Wouldn't Sidious have sent word to Darth Vader if he knew the Death Star was going to go bang? If he did see it and left it, it can be viewed as a stupid move that could've costed him his apprentice, and did cost him a great number of his Stormtroopers (To the extent of making them endangered, if the campaign in Battlefront 2 is accurate).
Another point. If Sidious had the power to see the future, why didn't he just forsee where the Rebels would run to? Darth Vader had to send thousands of probes throughout the universe just to discover the Rebels location. Granted, everything seemed to move in his favor afterward, but still.
Finally, the biggest blunder possible... Darth Vader tossing him over. Seriously, if he had the power to see the future, that is something that should've been acted on.
Overall, I think that the Emporer does not possess the ability to see the future to the degree that some people are claiming. I think you are mistaking this for his planning in advance.
I think Sidious wouldn't have needed an ability to see into the future to see what would come from Mace's attack. If he did, he is incredibly dependent on it to the degree that if it fails, he has no hope.

Xykon has a ton of magic, including flight. He is tough to predict in a fight (Tossing a bouncy ball amongst the paladins... while inscribing a symbol of insanity on it... Who saw that one coming?). Besides, Sidous won't expect METEOR SHOWER in any case... Wait... (meteors crash a distance away) Me and my meteor mouth.
Hope I got Bago a second time.
Sidious is an old man, his body is frail, I think plenty of spells can knock him down with ease. Besides, Xykon can take a beating.

[Estrecca]

Sidious is an old man, his body is frail, I think plenty of spells can knock him down with ease. Besides, Xykon can take a beating.

While I am reasonably sure that high level stuff could do the trick, the basic magic bolts might not be all that effective, because energy redirection is a canon ability of Jedi/Sith. There are some instances of Palpatine taking blaster bolts more or less to the face without suffering harm. For example, in the comic Betrayal...

Conspirators get zapped with Sith lightning (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=superlightningav9.jpg), chief conspirator shoots the Emperor at point blank range (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blastertothefacevx4.jpg), unharmed Emperor zaps chief conspirator (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aftermathac0.jpg).

[turkishproverb]

:smallconfused:

Dark Empire. THe emporor creates force storms that destroy entire FLEETS.

[Estrecca]

Dark Empire. THe emporor creates force storms that destroy entire FLEETS.

There are a couple of problems with this one. Namely, that Palpatine only learned to do this after his near-death experience in Endor -which allowed him to become vastly more powerful than he had been previously- and that the Force Storm cannot be used in a close range fight.

Or rather, Palpatine may be able to destroy the battlefield with a Force Storm and maybe Xykon (supposing that the lich simply doesn't teleport away or something), but he will certainly die too if he does this. And if doesn't have clone bodies nearby, he will be reduced to a powerless spirit of malice.

[turkishproverb]

There are a couple of problems with this one. Namely, that Palpatine only learned to do this after his near-death experience in Endor -which allowed him to become vastly more powerful than he had been previously- and that the Force Storm cannot be used in a close range fight.

Or rather, Palpatine may be able to destroy the battlefield with a Force Storm and maybe Xykon (supposing that the lich simply doesn't teleport away or something), but he will certainly die too if he does this. And if doesn't have clone bodies nearby, he will be reduced to a powerless spirit of malice.

Actually, they don't have to be all that nearby. They just have to exist. Still, I was pointing out the incident for the guy with the question, not using it as an argument.

[hamishspence]

In Empire's End, we are shown he can possess people, not just his clone bodies. However, the strong-willed victim chose to die: and take the Emperor with him.

[Anteros]

Xykon wins. The emperor was defeated simply by being picked up and thrown into a pit while his magic was at full power. 'nough said.


That's pretty ironic considering how Xykon died.

[Lamech]

Umm... Xykon could place a symbol of insanity on his robe, mad emperor. A single touch and the emperor is paralyzed. Finger of death, no emperor. Energy drain and the emperor is permantly weakened. Since Xykon is epic level he could probably make a spell to kill the emperor as a free action. Xykon could buy a scroll to place the emperor in stasis forever, or trap him in a gem forever. Also since Xykon would be able to leave the plane and the emperor needs to sleep (I think), Xykon can attack when the emperor is sleeping. The emperor is just screwed...