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xelliea
2008-08-09, 02:45 PM
i am a 1st level cleric and have a monk and 3 fighters in the party, we all keep on getting hit and only i can heal, help who do i use my cure light wounds on, using 1st edition rules and it is mostly goblins, hobgoblins and a hill giant (i could use bless and curse :smallconfused:) my A.C. is 1 (banded, +1 iron shield and 15 dex) and why should the monk die she is a PC:smallannoyed:

kamikasei
2008-08-09, 02:50 PM
Who else is in the party (the whole list)?

What books are in play (so, what spells do you have)?

In general, you're better off using buffs on your allies before combat and debuffs on your enemies during combat, and saving healing until after combat ends. Better to finish off whatever's causing the damage than heal it and have your ally hit again the next round.

But yeah, more details plz.

Spiryt
2008-08-09, 02:54 PM
Yes, more, hmmm... elaborate wording would be welcome.

Why are you getting hit so much? DM is throwing too strong stuff at you, or you can't fight really good? Or maybe you need another tactics?

Who your character are, and what are their strong and weak points? (The builds speaking more brutaly) :smallamused:

Matthew
2008-08-09, 03:35 PM
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons First Edition, is it? I take the party make up is:

Level One Fighter
Level One Cleric
Level One Monk

My advice is don't waste your healing spells on the Monk. Save them for the fighter (and possibly yourself). Curse is probably a better bet than Bless if there are a lot of enemies and few player characters.

(By the way, you will probably get more useful responses if you tag this thread [AD&D 1e] or something, given that I am understanding you right; just use the edit button to change the title of your post)

crimson77
2008-08-09, 03:36 PM
...help who do i use my cure light wounds on...

I would recommend curing the person who is the lowest. You will do more damage with two characters rather than just saving one.

Decoy Lockbox
2008-08-09, 06:32 PM
If I recall from my days playing AD&D 1e, monks started off with 2d4 hitpoints, AC 10 and did not get a DEX bonus to AC. So that means your monk's odds of surviving to second level are pretty bad. Now your fighter, on the other hand...

Spiryt
2008-08-09, 06:40 PM
AC 10 and did not get a DEX bonus to AC.

Heh? Why? I'm not familiar with 1.0, but why shouldn't they get it?

(Monks were always this kind of weird unarmored guys, yes? )

Matthew
2008-08-09, 07:01 PM
Heh? Why? I'm not familiar with 1.0, but why shouldn't they get it?

(Monks were always this kind of weird unarmored guys, yes? )

As far as I understand it, it was thought that a Monk would benefit too much, since he could deflect all incoming missile attacks with successful saving throws (including fireball spells) and his armour class gets better as he increases in level (plus they have a slew of other nifty abilities). Similarly, only fighters and fighter sub classess benefit from very high strength and constitution. Nonetheless, giving the Monk a bonus to armour class from high dexterity (or a variant thereof) is a very common house rule.

Spiryt
2008-08-09, 07:07 PM
Similarly, only fighters and fighter sub classess benefit from very high strength and constitution.

Good times :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, many things were interesting in 2ed. Even though I've played only Infinity games.

Thes Hunter
2008-08-09, 07:28 PM
Save it for yourself. How else are you going to escape the dungeon after you unleash one of the arbitrary gygaxian traps?

Hahahaha I kid, no you and the fighters, like the guy said above. Let the monk die.

But yeah, getting hit a lot is just the nature of 1st ed level 1. You get 1 d + con hitpoints and a goblin (or a short sword) does 1d6. Goblins do have a thaco of 20 but you guys are probably not sporting anything more than a 5-6 AC, unless you got very good starting gold.


Struggle through it, keep as many characters from dying as possible, and watch out for snakes or any other things that could make you save vs. poison (or death magic even) or DIE. :smallwink:

Matthew
2008-08-09, 08:57 PM
Good times :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, many things were interesting in 2ed. Even though I've played only Infinity games.

Yes, indeed, the quirks are part of the charm. Personally, I am not a huge fan of the AD&D attribute tables, but I can see the sense in limiting some things when you are using very focused archetypes.

paladinlady
2008-08-10, 03:47 PM
don't let the monk die they are useful at higher level:smalleek:

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-11, 03:54 PM
The problem sounds like the Hill Giant at first level.

Premier
2008-08-11, 04:24 PM
General advice: AD&D is just plain harder then 3E, no way around it. This means that you need to recalibrate your gaming brain - an encounter that's an easy challenge for a 1st level 3E party might be rather dangerous for a 1E group. The best way to deal with this change is to improve player skills, especially in the areas of circumspection and discretion: realise that the time to turn back and head out from the dungeon is not when you're all out of spells and low on HP, but rather when you still have enough spells and HP to carry you out and back to town. Take fewer risks and try to manipulate the situation to your advantage. Ask your DM if he does XP by the book. If so, then very often it might be a good idea to try and bypass some tough enemies and somehow acquire their treasure without confronting them - you'll still get XP, possibly quite a lot of it.

On a related note, forget Challenge Ratings and built-in metagaming sillyness like that. If your group walks into Ironhell Torturecavern, Home of Xantagas the Ancient Red Wyrm, then you'll probably meet Xantagas the Ancient Red Wyrm. And he won't say "Oh, they're only 1st level guys, I'll replace myself with a 1 Hit Dice dragon hatchling because I want to be sporting". No, he'll say "Breakfast!", and attack your group with all his 8 hit dice and formidable attending abilities.

Or to put it in more serious words, in 1E it's not the DM's responsibility to twist the setting so that it always accomodates the party with level-appropriate challenges. Instead, it's the players' responsibility to use foresight and intelligence to realize in time if one particular location or potential foe is too hard for them to tackle, and to look for an easier quarry if necessary.

As for your hill giant situation: try to think your way out of the situation, instead of fighting your way out of it. Are there any mercenaries, town militia, or similar nearby that you could recruit for a cut of the loot? Could you acquire some poison that might bring it down? If it lives in a lair or cave of some sort, are there any low, cramped areas where it couldn't follow you? Could you dig a pit, create a deadfall, or fashion some other kind of trap and lure the giant into it?


EDIT: Also, 3 Fighters, 1 Monk, 1 Cleric is pretty bad party composition. You completely lack arcane magic, and you lack some vital thief abilities (related to locks, traps, etc.) that the monk doesn't have. And what these lacks boil down to is getting hurt more often, and thus putting a larger strain on the cleric. I strongly suggest that if/when some of the PCs die, their players pay a bit more attention to the needs of the party at large. Until then, it would be an idea to hire NPCs, even if they ask for a full share of the loot.

hamlet
2008-08-12, 07:36 AM
Premeir is right. At first level, going toe-to-toe with a hill giant is suicide (though it is possible to come out on top, just not likely). If it's an encounter you can't avoid, then think outside of the character sheet to find a solution.

Digging a pit trap and luring it there is a good start.

Spears and wolf-pack tactics will increase your chances.

Ranged weapons from inaccessible firing points is good, though the giant will move away pretty quickly if he has more than two IQ points.

A good option might actually be to try and recruit the giant for a cut of treasure, or a promise of "all he can eat" of whatever disposable corpses show up later on. Giants are greedy and not terribly bright. You don't have to be very tough, just look it.

One of the biggest keys to playing AD&D 1e is to become intimately familiar with the "balls of brass" maneuver. Act like you got a pair and know how to bluff.

Of course, on the flip side, you've got to know when to fold 'em and walk away too. Dead people don't carry any treasure. They're just dungeon dressing.

Tengu_temp
2008-08-12, 07:50 AM
stuff that's not the last paragraph or the edit

That's what I love about devoted AD&D fans - they take a flaw in their game and first explain that it's not a flaw, but a feature, and later tell you that it's actually superior to how other systems handle it.

^
|
(Tongue in the cheek. Partially.)

Anyway, your best bet is probably to tell all party members to use ranged weapons, and tell one of them to stand closer to the enemies than the rest - when they come in, they will probably concentrate on this guy, and you can heal him. Just make sure he doesn't die.

hamlet
2008-08-12, 09:43 AM
That's what I love about devoted AD&D fans - they take a flaw in their game and first explain that it's not a flaw, but a feature, and later tell you that it's actually superior to how other systems handle it.

^
|
(Tongue in the cheek. Partially.)

You know, we don't really like it when the game we prefer is talked down to like that, even if your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek.

It gets old really fast.

Ethdred
2008-08-12, 11:07 AM
You know, we don't really like it when the game we prefer is talked down to like that, even if your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek.

It gets old really fast.

Especially when you're wrong. 1st edition has plenty of flaws, but Premier wasn't talking about them. It is just a different game from 3.x (let alone 4.0) and it is much harder to deal with, especially if you have a 3.x mentality. That doesn't make it 'better' and he wasn't saying it did. But it does mean you need to approach it differently.

But even saying that, only a truly evil DM would throw a hill giant against a 1st level party, unless there was some other way out than fighting it. Try looking for alternative ways of dealing with it. Or take advantage of the fact that monsters can't heal (unless your DM has house-rules something in), so you can try hit and run tactics. Attack it from range, or until you run out of spells, then run away, rest up and heal, and come back to find it still wounded. Rinse and repeat until your DM gets annoyed.

Matthew
2008-08-13, 01:20 PM
Anyway, your best bet is probably to tell all party members to use ranged weapons, and tell one of them to stand closer to the enemies than the rest - when they come in, they will probably concentrate on this guy, and you can heal him. Just make sure he doesn't die.

The monk almost definitely should, but it depends what Weapon Proficiencies he has taken. The cleric probably doesn't have access to ranged weapons, and Hill Giants (or whatever) are probably faster than the fighter and cleric. Somebody will probably have to hold the line.

nagora
2008-08-13, 02:52 PM
But even saying that, only a truly evil DM would throw a hill giant against a 1st level party, unless there was some other way out than fighting it.
Yes: this. Either the DM hates you or you're not thinking. Have you talked to the Hill Giant yet? Or are we too late for that?

xelliea
2008-08-15, 04:25 PM
they hill giant needed only a quick 3 or 4 round attack to kill it:smallamused:

xelliea
2008-08-15, 04:34 PM
2 of the fighters are NPCs and are gone now :smallannoyed:

xelliea
2008-08-15, 04:39 PM
also if it helps i am N the monk is LG and the fighter is NG

p.s. my DM thinks too much about story and not enough about how tough the opponents are

Jayabalard
2008-08-15, 04:40 PM
Especially when you're wrong. .I'm a little confused at who you're arguing with (calling wrong). You quoted hamlet but I can't make any sense out of what you're saying unless you're agreeing with hamlet and disagreeing with Tengu, which isn't obvious due to the person you chose to quote.

LibraryOgre
2008-08-15, 04:45 PM
Well, if the opponents are tough, how do you get around them?

Hill giants are intelligent (in that they understand speech and can make deals). So are hobgoblins and and the like.

If something is too tough to kill, find a way around it.... or avoid it completely.

Matthew
2008-08-15, 04:46 PM
...and why should the monk die, she is a PC :smallannoyed:

There is no reason to let her die, but she is extremely vulnerable. Casting healing spells on her is a waste if she is just going to get hit again next round.



also if it helps i am N the monk is LG and the fighter is NG

p.s. my DM thinks too much about story and not enough about how tough the opponents are

Consider running away more frequently. :smallwink:

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-15, 04:55 PM
they hill giant needed only a quick 3 or 4 round attack to kill it:smallamused:

Was it a sickly Hill Giant? :smallcool:

xelliea
2008-08-27, 04:52 PM
There is no reason to let her die, but she is extremely vulnerable. Casting healing spells on her is a waste if she is just going to get hit again next round.


Consider running away more frequently. :smallwink:

we need the xp to get to l.v. 2

xelliea
2008-08-27, 04:54 PM
Was it a sickly Hill Giant? :smallcool:

no it was only because it got bad roles and we got good

Matthew
2008-08-27, 05:52 PM
we need the xp to get to l.v. 2

If you die, you won't get to level two. :smallwink:

In AD&D 1e you get a lot more experience from acquiring treasure than from defeating monsters. Consider figuring out a non combat method of obtaining a monster's treasure.

nagora
2008-08-27, 05:56 PM
we need the xp to get to l.v. 2
You also need to be alive :smallwink:

xelliea
2008-08-28, 06:08 AM
i will die if i don't get to level 2 i am being hunted by hobgobs

InkEyes
2008-08-28, 09:23 AM
Are the hobgoblins planning on attacking you next session or something? If not, what's with the rush to level? Just because you're being hunted doesn't mean you should be attacking every creature you encounter for xp. If anything, a trail of corpses (HILL GIANT corpses especially) will lead them to you faster than simply leaving hobgoblin territory as fast as you can and keeping a low-profile.

nagora
2008-08-28, 09:42 AM
Are the hobgoblins planning on attacking you next session or something? If not, what's with the rush to level? Just because you're being hunted doesn't mean you should be attacking every creature you encounter for xp. If anything, a trail of corpses (HILL GIANT corpses especially) will lead them to you faster than simply leaving hobgoblin territory as fast as you can and keeping a low-profile.
A Hill Giant corpse might put them off, actually.

LibraryOgre
2008-08-28, 02:52 PM
A Hill Giant corpse might put them off, actually.

I know a trail of hill giant corpses would discourage me from following someone.

Starshade
2008-08-28, 04:59 PM
What about running for a city, and seek refuge to recuperate, and roll new characters for the missing ones? Why the speed to level up, so you can slay the hobgoblins when you just killed a giant?
Unless you just got the Bobgobbos as a arch nemesis or something. :smallamused:

Knaight
2008-08-28, 05:02 PM
Have you considered getting someone to distract the hill giant, make it chase them, steal any stuff it left at home, then run away, after presenting some of the stuff as a gift to the hobgoblin tribe? If the guy getting chased by the hill giant had a hobgoblin following him earlier, it would make the hobgoblins look really suspicious, and after the giant and the hobgoblins kill each other off, finish any survivors, and take all their loot. Or you can just do a jack the bean stalk trick, with a tall tree, with a rope at one end, that you climb up, being tailed by the giant. Then one person grabs the rope and slides down, likely injuring themselves, but not severely. Cue tree cutting, giant falling, and if it survives killing it while it is dazed and on the ground. In any case, leave a few arrows stuck in it, and when the hobgoblins show up, act casual, then wave.

monty
2008-08-28, 09:05 PM
A Hill Giant corpse might put them off, actually.

Well, it depends on what kind of hobgoblins they are. If they're the 1e equivalent of CoDzillae and Batmans, then they'd probably just follow it.

Knaight
2008-08-28, 09:07 PM
Hence the "might". One can only hope.

Inhuman Bot
2008-08-28, 09:12 PM
Could you provide a better view of the situation?
Also:
Please, capitilize your letters.
Secondly, please use the edit button instead of making multiple posts.
@V Actually, I just missed those. I'am getting tired, sooo...

Knaight
2008-08-28, 09:22 PM
The double posting seems to be because of the inconvenience of quoting multiple people in a single post, assuming that you were intending that for the original poster. Although I have to say, the irony of "provdie", "mulitple" and "veiw" appearing in a post criticizing communication is pretty funny, although it looks deliberate:smallsmile:. That said, please do capitalize, your asking for help, at least make the plea easy to read. That and it actually will help you get more advice.

aaron_the_cow
2008-08-28, 09:55 PM
is your monk using the OA rules for forms and ect, or are you just using the PH monk? also try to get more people to join the game or ask your DM if you can get more NPC's for hire (try to get another cleric or a mage). you might whant to save all your very limmited (3 max) 1st spells for only healing and only in emergencies.
also you should take the cleric tanking roll and be a frontliner with your AC 1.

(note, I only play a 1st+2nd modifyed campaign, tell me if I'm geting anything wrong)

nagora
2008-08-29, 03:47 AM
also try to get more people to join the game or ask your DM if you can get more NPC's for hire (try to get another cleric or a mage).
Yes, if you have some treasure perhaps an investment in some 0-level muscle/cannon fodder would be a good idea.


you might whant to save all your very limmited (3 max) 1st spells for only healing and only in emergencies.
Yes, indeed.


also you should take the cleric tanking roll and be a frontliner with your AC 1.
I'd be very surprised if he can manage that sort of AC at 1st level. If he can, then hobgoblins are not likely to be a serious problem.

aaron_the_cow
2008-08-29, 09:41 AM
I'd be very surprised if he can manage that sort of AC at 1st level. If he can, then hobgoblins are not likely to be a serious problem.

look at the original post

nagora
2008-08-29, 10:50 AM
look at the original post
Doh! :smallredface:

xelliea
2008-08-29, 03:08 PM
What about running for a city, and seek refuge to recuperate, and roll new characters for the missing ones? Why the speed to level up, so you can slay the hobgoblins when you just killed a giant?
Unless you just got the Bobgobbos as a arch nemesis or something. :smallamused:

i have, i hate them

hamlet
2008-08-29, 03:32 PM
i have, i hate them

Why not convince the giant to lend assistance? Seriously, let him know that there's a pack of bloodthirsty hobgoblins coming to kill him and steal his treasure and that, for a small price, you're willing to help him fight them off.

nagora
2008-08-29, 06:40 PM
Why not convince the giant to lend assistance?
Because he's dead; you've missed an episode!

Knaight
2008-08-29, 07:20 PM
I can't seem to find that bit. That said, with the giant down, you can always try going to town and finding a few hotshots, to distract hobgoblins while you shoot them down from the bushes, and run away when the fighting commences. Repeat at a few towns, then personally finish them off.

nagora
2008-08-30, 05:02 AM
I can't seem to find that bit.
Post #21 mentioned the sudden death of the hill giant.

hamlet
2008-08-30, 07:23 AM
Because he's dead; you've missed an episode!

See, that's what I get for going on a drink run.