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pcamp88
2008-08-09, 10:37 PM
Hey there everyone. Been playing through the DS version of Final Fantasy 4 and decided to try and come up with a workable Dark Knight in D&D 3.5. Please don't hold back any suggestions/criticisms!

The Dark Knight:

Hit Die: D10
Races: All
Alignment: Any non-good
Proficiencies: All Simple & Martial Weapons, Light/Medium/Heavy Armor, Shields (Not Tower)
BAB:Full (+1 per level, +1 attack per round every 5th level)
Saving Throws: High Fort, low Ref, low Will
Skill Points: 2 X (4+ INT modifier) at 1st level, 2 + INT modifier for each level.
Class Abilities:
Dark Strike (SN): Beginning at 1st level, a Dark Knight may take damage equal to 1/4 his current maximum HP value in order to deal maximum weapon damage +1 for every 2 Dark Knight levels on all attacks in the round the ability is activated.
This counts as a free action and may be used in the same round as the attack. This effect converts all damage done by the attack into negative energy.

Shadow Wave(SN): Beginning at 4th level, The Dark Knight may take damage equal to
1/4 of his maximum HP to blast a wave of negative energy at all enemies in a 15' cone in front at a distance of up to 15'. This attack has a casting time of 1 round Dark Knight must make a concentration check (DC 10 + damage taken) if successfully attacked inbetween casting and activation. This attack causes 1d10+1 per 2 Dark Knight levels points of damage. Upon a successful fortitude save (DC 10+ DK level) the victim(s) take half damage.

Dark Strike Mastery (SN): At 7th level, the amount of damage the Dark Knight takes from his Darkness ability is reduced to 1/8 of his maximum HP.

Shadow Wave Mastery (SN): At 10th level, the amount of damage the Dark Knight takes from his Shadow Wave ability is reduced to 1/8 of maximum HP. The damage dealt from the Shadow Wave ability is also increased to 2D10 +1 per Dark Knight level.

Negative Affinity (SN): Beginning at 12th level, due to having been in touch with Negative energy for most of his career, the Dark Knight is now immune to all forms of negative energy directed at him.

Supreme Shadow Wave: At 16th level, the amount of Damage done by the Shadow Wave ability is increased to 3D10 +1 per Dark Knight level.

Supreme Dark Strike (SN): At 20th level, the Dark Knight's Dark Strike ability now doubles the critical threat range of his weapon and increases the multiplier by 1 while active.

Ex Dark Knights: A Dark Knight whose alignment shifts to good loses all Dark Knight powers (except for Negative Affinity) and may no longer take levels in Dark Knight.

Class Skills:
Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Intimidate, Listen, Spot, Swim.

Selgeron
2008-08-20, 01:05 PM
this all seems pretty good and in shape with the games- but i might go for the damage to be based on his CURRENT health as opposed to his maximum health, to stop the dark knight from killing himself.

also, as to your progression restrictions, you might want to play FFIV through to the end...

Tormsskull
2008-08-20, 01:54 PM
Hit Die: D10
Races: All
Alignment: Any non-good
Proficiencies: All Simple & Martial Weapons, Light/Medium/Heavy Armor, Shields (Not Tower)
BAB:Full (+1 per level, +1 attack per round every 5th level)
Saving Throws: High Fort, low Ref, low Will
Skill Points: 2 X (4+ INT modifier) at 1st level, 2 + INT modifier for each level.


This is a fighter clone except for the lack of Tower shield proficency.



Dark Strike (SN): Beginning at 1st level, a Dark Knight may take damage equal to 1/3 his current maximum HP value in order to deal maximum weapon damage + strength modifier + wisdom modifier on all attacks in the round the ability is activated.
This counts as a free action and may be used in the same round as the attack. This effect converts all damage done by the attack into negative energy.


This is the one strong part of this class, and would make the class likely prone to dipping, I would guess, as levels in Dark Knight are not referenced at all. The "on all attacks" in the round makes this ability a sweet, sweet piece of candy to an optimizer. However, since this attack strictly deals negative energy, at higher levels it would seem easy to defend against.

Losing 1/3rd of your health to perform such an attack might balance against the fact that you can deal a tremendous amount of damage in one round. However, you're setting this character up to have the same problem as the nova-ing Psion/Wilder.



Magic: Beginning at 4th level, a Dark Knight may cast magic from the Dark Knight spell list. The Dark Knights' wisdom modifier is used in determining the DC of spells, extra daily spells, etc. To use magic, the Dark Knight must have a wisdom score of 10+ the spells level. The DC against a Dark Knight spell is 10 + Spell level + Wisdom modifier. (Uses same Spells per Day chart as Paladins)


Pretty much same as paladin, so no biggie.



Shadow Wave(SN): Beginning at 7th level, The Dark Knight may take damage equal to
1/3 of his maximum HP + character level to blast a wave of negative energy at all enemies in a 15' wide cone
in front at a distance of up to 15'. This attack has a casting time of 1 round
Dark Knight must make a concentration check (DC 10 + damage taken) if successfully attacked inbetween casting and activation. This attack causes 1d10+wisdom modifier points of damage.


I can't imagine this ability being useful except in a very small handful of situations. Due to the fact that the Dark Knight is probably going to be boosting his Strength & Constitution with level ups and magic items, wisdom is likely to be 14ish. So, dealing on average 7-8 damage to a handful of opponents for 1/3rd +character level (my guess is around 23 HP at that level) of your health is a bad trade. In addition since it is a full-round cast, it is even less useful and prone to interuption. One shining light seems to be that this is an auto-hit the way it is written, so only protection versus negative energy is going to help.

Compare this to the first ability, which maxes damage on ALL attacks in a round, and the fact that you can split your attacks up to multiple opponents, and the fact that at level 7 this Dark Knight is going to be able to make 2 (or 3 or more with haste, etc.) attacks, all that deal max damage, and Shadow Wave quickly becomes very sub-par.


I'd continue with the other abilities, but I think there is a big enough hole here to go back to the drawing board. I'd suggest changing Dark strike to reference level specifically in the Dark Knight class. This will reward character who take additional levels in Dark Knight with a more powerful strike, rather than giving this incredibly powerful ability to anyone who takes a 1 level dip.

Second, assuming that tones the strike down, I'd probably buff up the Shadow Wave ability a bit, and perhaps have it cause a Fortitude save for 1/2 damage. This will bring it more in line the common mechanics of 3.5

Good luck.

Sho
2008-08-20, 04:58 PM
In truth, there was really only one Dark Knight in Final Fantasy IV.

And he was Cecil.

And he was most definitely Good.

Going to make Dark/Fell Swords for the Dark Knight to use? Paladins/Holy Knights do have their Holy Avengers/Holy Swords.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but I also remember Dark Strike/Dark Wave never in fact healing any Undead enemies. This would lead one to think that it is not Negative Energy damage but Entropic Energy Damage.

Otherwise, Tormsskull struck everything on the nose.

<<Man>> <<Up>>, and go back to the drawing board.

Good luck, too.

JoshuaZ
2008-08-20, 06:05 PM
I presume that the Dark Knight as an arcane caster (unless there's some weird flavor issue that should make them a divine caster)? You should note that under "Magic" (which also in the normal way one describes this sort of thing would probably be labeled "Spellcasting") You also need to describe if the DK casts spells prepared or spontaneously.

Zeta Kai
2008-08-20, 06:09 PM
Well, this class needs work. It also needs a table. Since I can't really help with your class polishing right now, here's your table. Enjoy!

The Dark Knight
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special|0SL|1SL|2SL|3SL
1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Dark Strike||||
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|||||
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|||||
4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Spells|0|||
5th|+5|+4|+1|+1||0|||
6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2||1|||
7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|Shadow Wave|1|||
8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2||1|0||
9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3||1|0||
10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Dark Strike Mastery|1|1||
11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3||1|1|0|
12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|Negative Affinity|1|1|1|
13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4||1|1|1|
14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4||2|1|1|0
15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Shadow Wave Mastery|2|1|1|1
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5||2|2|1|1
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5||2|2|2|1
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6||3|2|2|1
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6||3|3|3|2
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Supreme Dark Strike|3|3|3|3[/table]

pcamp88
2008-08-20, 10:07 PM
this all seems pretty good and in shape with the games- but i might go for the damage to be based on his CURRENT health as opposed to his maximum health, to stop the dark knight from killing himself.

also, as to your progression restrictions, you might want to play FFIV through to the end...

Just for the record, I've beaten the SNES version quite a few times. :P


The main idea I had in creating this class was pretty much just another alternative to the generic Fighter, giving him more direct class powers as apposed to just choosing a crap load of feats. Also, taking a second look at it, I can easily tell it really needs some tweaking. I've considered just dropping the spells all together, lowering the amount of damage taken from his abilities and increasing the amount of damage the Shadow Wave ability does to name a few.

EDIT: Made a few tweaks, probably still needs work methinks.
Also Zeta Kai, thanks for the table. I really like what you've been doing with your FFX homebrew.

Sho
2008-08-21, 02:42 AM
The Dark Knight
{table=head]Class Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|1st|2nd|3rd|4th
1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Dark Strike|-|-|-|-
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0||-|-|-|-
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1||-|-|-|-
4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Shadow Wave|0|-|-|-
5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Bonus Feat|1|-|-|-
6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2||2|-|-|-
7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2||2|0|-|-
8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Dark Strike Mastery|3|1|-|-
9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3||3|2|-|-
10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Bonus Feat|3|2|0|-
11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3||4|3|1|-
12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|Negative Affinity|4|3|2|-
13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4||4|3|2|0
14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4||4|4|3|1
15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Bonus Feat|5|4|3|2
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|Shadow Wave Mastery|5|4|3|2
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5||5|4|4|3
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6||5|5|4|3
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6||5|5|4|3
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Bonus Feat, Supreme Dark Strike|6|5|4|4[/table]
I personally like having patterns, myself.

Every fourth level. You definitely know when you're going to get something.

And you already get half spellcasting. D= As in 0th/1st to 4th.

Below the bar spell levels don't need to get below the bar spell slots. Something I would suggest, too, is to use Intelligence for your spellcasting. In all FFs, that was the same attribute Black Magic users shared when casting their magics.

Any class getting bonus feats is not a bad thing, either, and really, unless the DM allows feat training with a monetary or experience cost at such and such level or levels, bonus feats gained via your class is most beneficial due to the fact that you will gain very little feats by character level alone through your character's career.

Behold_the_Void
2008-08-21, 02:52 AM
Honestly, I'd say the dark abilities don't look like they're at all worthwhile for the damage they deal to you. There's just not a lot of good or interesting things here, I'd say it's looking pretty severely underpowered.