Wizard Magazine's top 200 Characters. *Narm* Abounds!

[bosssmiley]

The original list (http://www.wizarduniverse.com/051308top200characters.html) spread over 20 pages ("Brace for *herp derp*!"),
Or, if you prefer, The whole thing on one page (http://www.razorfine.com/index.php/comments/wizards_200_greatest_comic_characters_of_all_time/)
Or, reproduced here for your convenience:

1. Wolverine
2. Batman
3. Spider-Man
4. Superman
5. The Joker
6. Rorschach
7. Captain America
8. Hellboy
9. Magneto
10. John Constantine
11. The Thing
12. Snake-Eyes
13. Kitty Pryde
14. Jesse Custer
15. Wonder Woman
16. Lex Luthor
17. Morpheus
18. Doctor Doom
19. The Hulk
20. Miracleman
21. Daredevil
22. Commissioner James Gordon
23. Yorick Brown
24. Marv
25. The Spirit
26. Cassidy
27. Green Goblin
28. Fone Bone
29. Ozymandias
30. The Flash
31. Tulip O’Hare
32. Gren Arrow
33. Death
34. Luke Cage
35. Conan the Barbarian
36. Iron Man
37. Barbara Gordon
38. Spider Jerusalem
39. The Punisher
40. Thor
41. Mr. Fantastic
42. Hal Jordan
43. Jimmy Corrigan
44. Jack Knight
45. Hawkeye
46. Jessica Jones
47. Silver Surfer
48. Professor X
49. Black Adam
50. Cobra Commander
51. Tara Chace
52. Bullseye
53. Nightwing
54. Darkseid
55. Captain Marvel
56. J. Jonah Jameson
57. Usagi Yojimbo
58. Bucky Barnes
59. Madman
60. Spawn
61. Herr Starr
62. The Red Skull
63. Cerebus
64. The Mist
65. Jason Todd
66. Two-Face
67. Katchoo
68. Robin
69. Emma Frost
70. Phoney Bone
71. Black Canary
72. Deathstroke
73. Concrete
74. Enid Coleslaw
75. Milo Garret
76. Captain Cold
77. John Hartigan
78. Swamp Thing
79. Black Panther
80. Renee Montoya
81. Catwoman
82. Lono
83. Doctor Strange
84. Kingpin
85. Scott Pilgrim
86. Ultimate Nick Fury
87. Lois Lane
88. Namor, the Sub-Mariner
89. Storm
90. The Human Torch
91. Hunter Rose
92. Elijah Snow
93. Hank Pym
94. Guy Gardner
95. Hopey & Maggie
96. Invincible
97. The Scarlet Witch
98. Vanom
99. The Invisible Woman
100. Agent Graves
101. The Crow
102. Eliot Ness
103. Blue Beetle
104. She-Hulk
105. Black Bolt
106. Cyclops
107. Grendel-Prime
108. Ben Urich
109. Jinx
110. Blade
111. Raphael
112. Rick Jones
113. Witchblade
114. Wesley Gibson
115. Nite-Owl
116. The Savage Dragon
117. Rogue
118. Hawkman
119. Jean Grey
120. Cyborg
121. Howard the Duck
122. The Goon
123. Bizarro
124. The Vision
125. Kabuki
126. Deena Pilgrim
127. Mary Jane Watson
128. Ted Knight
129. Galactus
130. Mitchell Hundred
131. The Governor
132. Elektra
133. Nightcrawler
134. Miho
135. Grro the Wanderer
136. Buffy Summers
137. Mr. Miracle
138. Drinky the Crow
139. The Leader
140. Doop
141. Christian Walker
142. Alfred Pennyworth
143. Loki
144. The Atom
145. Francine Peters
146. Hitman
147. Aquaman
148. Jimmy Olsen
149. Moon Knight
150. The Watcher
151. Shade
152. Black Cat
153. SuperGirl
154. Red Arrow
155. Captain Marv-Vell
156. Plastic Man
157. Agent 355
158. Grifter
159. Kyle Rayner
160. Elongated Man
161. Mage
162. Holden Carver
163. Orion
164. Deathlok
165. Sinestro
166. Wylie Times
167. The Invisible Man
168. The Spectre
169. King Leonidas of Sparta
170. Jim Rhodes
171. Dwight McCarthy
172. Uncle Gabby
173. Booster Gold
174. David Gold
175. Lobo
176. Black Widow
177. Hyperion
178. Cyborg Superman
179. Ultimate Doctor Octopus
180. Beast
181. Mirror Master
182. Deadpool
183. Seargant Rock
184. Colossus
185. Cassandra Nova
186. Braniac
187. The Tick
188. Juggernaut
189. Ultron
190. Ra’s Al Ghul
191. Timber Wolf
192. Beta Ray Bill
193. Sabretooth
194. Leo Patterson
195. Iron Fist
196. Superboy
197. Kid Miracleman
198. Twitch
199. Golden Age Sandman
200. Superman-Prime

Are the compilers of this list tugging my tonker? No-names like Booster Gold and Cyborg Superman make the cut, but not a single character from "2000AD" or the Wildstorm continuity (with the exception of that Punisher knock-off Grifter) make the list, and only a couple from Image Comics or DC Vertigo (Golden Age Sandmook and perkygoth Death make it, but Neil Gaiman's Sandman doesn't?! :smallannoyed: edit: yes he does, at #17. Cheers Finn Solomon :smallwink:).

And as for the #1. Oh look, Marvel's own Drizzt. :smallamused:

Is this seriously the hivemind concensus on what makes a great comics character comics in 2008? I thought the genre was supposed to have grown and had matured since the 1980s.

Comic fanbois: wouldn't know haute cuisine from hot dog. :smallmad:

/ end Spider Jerusalem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_Jerusalem) (#38) rant mode

[Hairb]

The Punisher at #39? Spawn at #60? Cyborg Superman at number anything? Tell me this is some sick joke.

[Finn Solomon]

Uh, boss smiley? The Dream King did make it. He's in there at number 17. You can stop being hysterical now. :smallsigh:

The list is fine. No list is perfect, and a bunch of my favourites are in there at quite high numbers (Jesse Custer, Magneto, The Joker and Yorick Brown), so it's pretty much okay in my book.

[Tirian]

I should _not_ have had to scroll down that far to find The Tick. And how on Earth do you include everyone who ever put on a Superman costume but leave off Barry Allen?

[psycojester]

What the **** is Marv doing at 24? Would anybody goddamn remember Marv if it wasn't for the movie.

[Lord of the Helms]

What the **** is Marv doing at 24? Would anybody goddamn remember Marv if it wasn't for the movie(?)

Probably not, but he was so very, very awesome in that movie that I'd never complain about it.

Wolverine at number 1 rather than Spider-Man or Batman is a bit distressing. It's annoying that all the Supermen are there, but oh well, can't have everything.

[Dunesen]

So easy to start making tons of joke suggestions, but I would like to express a couple opinions:

Rorschach at six? Kitty Pryde at 13? Both too high. Kitty is constantly treated as the kick-ass female/former protege of Wolverine, but how often is she give a chance to stand out as an independent character? Cyclops (at 106) is constantly a fixture on the X-Men teams, not a solo character, but he's got more a presence and persona, I argue, than Kitty.

And Rorschach is only in one piece of a fiction, a limited series. The lack of chance to grow or change should preclude his getting so high on a list compared to so many others featured in continuous series.

Luke Cage above Iron Man? Bucky at 58, when he's been considered dead until just recently?

Oh, but at least Hawkeye, the Green Arrow rip-off, gets significantly higher than Rogue, who simply has one of the most tragic powers of all time. She's like the literal definition of Cursed with Awesome (other than vampires).

You know what, nevermind. It's impossible to list all the things wrong with who is on the list and their placement, not even getting into who should be on. What criteria do they have for this list, does the article actually explain it? Or are they just looking at who's considered cool RIGHT NOW? Because Galactus deserves a lot better than 129, if only because of how he helped pave the way for the whole cosmic side of the Marvel universe.

Seriously now, you have characters like Spider-Man or the Fantastic Four that are like nigh-deities in their world, different from humanity almost to the point of being above them, and then you have a literal god-like being that considers them as insects. Tell me the cosmic part of a comic universe doesn't bring much needed perspective heroes vs. humans dichotomy.

But I guess it's appropriate that Aquaman, the most serious joke of a superhero, is higher than the Tick, an intended joke hero.

[North]

Popularity contest wise. It sounds about right.

[hotel_papa]

Howard the Duck: #121
Deadpool: #182

This list is about four months too late.

HP

[Dihan]

Doop? DOOP?!

The list just screams phailure.

[Gavin Sage]

You know its just Wizard... they have a well deserved reputation for being a big fat and greasy brown pile of fail to begin with.

Still Kitty at 13, warms my heart it does. Most under-rated character in comics she is. Not enough to make up for 1, but take him and Emoboy-Prime off the list entirely and you have a pretty decent one. Booster Gold SO deserves to be higher though.

[Lord Galen]

Imagine if this list was one person's true true feelings about comics. They would be so conflicted. Its like someone has a weird condition where they can make perfectly cogent and considered statements like "Will Eisner's work on The Spirit greatly defined the urban crime genre..." and then spontaneously turn into a crackhead who can only say "Wolverine's cooool...Snikt".


And no Tank Girl?

[Tirian]

It would be interesting to make this objective in some way. Like charge the general public ten cents per vote (donating all the proceeds to the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund or disaster relief or something along those lines), and regularly update the list. So you'd be able to measure the aggregate of community outrage that Rorschach eclipsed The Question or that Kitty Pryde is the greatest superheroine.

[Hairb]

And no Tank Girl?

I for one am glad. She and her adventures were fun while it lasted, but pretty forgettable. But that's comics in the 90's for you. As interesting a premise as The Maxx was, it's probably all for the best that he was left off as well.

[Gavin Sage]

Imagine if this list was one person's true true feelings about comics. They would be so conflicted. Its like someone has a weird condition where they can make perfectly cogent and considered statements like "Will Eisner's work on The Spirit greatly defined the urban crime genre..." and then spontaneously turn into a crackhead who can only say "Wolverine's cooool...Snikt".

I can only assume that this was some sort of point system where everyone involved wrote down 200 names and then they got listed in order of most votes or something. So if everybody wrote down Wolverine in like 60th place or so, he'd come out on top.

But yeah there's far too much good taste on the list for Wolverine to be on the top of it.

[hanzo66]

Why is it that Grendel-Prime is on the list, but not Hunter Rose?

[Shatteredtower]

There are some who, if directed to this discussion, would identify it as proof that comic book fans obsess about the silliest thing.

And then you could ask them to list the top hundred sports coaches or political figures of all time and get a good laugh out of the double standard.

Whatever the subject of these lists, though, they always fit the Kissinger explanation for the vicious nature of university politics: the fighting is so fierce precisely because the stakes are so small.

The reason I dislike such lists, however, is because ranking such figures will always be determined by the most arbitrary of deciding factors. You can make a case for why x number of characters had a profound impact on the way we read comics, but putting them in order nearly always looks silly and obsessive.

Who contributed the most? The pioneers? The enduring survivors? The characters that redefined how everyone else was writing characters for a number of years? (If Rorshach must get a nod, it's probably for this.) The ones that brought in new readership? The ones that wrecked a book so badly that it never managed to get back on the rails? The omnipresent source of cameos? The ones that successfully made us rethink the way we see the world and each other? (Heh. Good luck with that one.)

I think they're all good criteria, but I'm not going to rank them by priority. :smallwink:

Okay, enough with the pretenses. What really caught my eye in this thread were these two comments:


Kitty Pryde at 13?.

Still Kitty at 13, warms my heart it does.
SICK AND WRONG!

:smalltongue:

[Dunesen]

Okay, enough with the pretenses. What really caught my eye in this thread were these two comments:

SICK AND WRONG!

:smalltongue:

You'll notice I view Kitty at 13 with a healthy dose of trepidation.

On a completely unrelated note: final panel. (http://qwantz.com/archive/001257.html)

[The Rose Dragon]

No the Female (of the Species)?

We Garth Ennis Fan Club Members (read: me) are appalled by this. The Female is the greatest female comic book character ever.

*protests*

[chiasaur11]

Hey, Booster's had a really good comic lately!

Other than that...
I got nothing defending wizardwise.

[Dalenthas]

Iron Man is #36?!?! WTF? Behind Luke Cage of all people? At least Iron Man can sustain his own comic! When was the last time Luke Cage had a solo comic? And no Ms. Marvel? At all? And why oh gods why are the Fantastic for so monsterously spread out?
/gripe

[Xenogears]

Personally I like seeing Rorschach so high on the list. He was an awesome character. I think it's kinda stupid to judge the characters by what they contributed to the genre or if they changed the way people thought. Those are great things to do and the author of them should be commended for them. But if you are going to rank the characters they should be ranked according to how entertaining they are. See Rorschach is just so fun to read about. He is just a really entertaining character and that is why he should be so high on the list.

I'm upset they put ultimate Nick Fury instead of regular Nick Fury. So are they trying to say that Samuel L. Jackson is better than Nick Fury?! Them's fighting words. Always remember "This is one of a dozen safe houses that are known only to level 13(I forget what number it actually is but whatever.) S.H.I.E.L.D. members". "And how many of them are there?" "Just Nick Fury."

[chiasaur11]

Iron Man is #36?!?! WTF? Behind Luke Cage of all people? At least Iron Man can sustain his own comic! When was the last time Luke Cage had a solo comic? And no Ms. Marvel? At all? And why oh gods why are the Fantastic Four so monsterously spread out?
/gripe

Luke Cage SHOULD be up high for going up to Doom's castle, punching through his guards, and borrowing the fantasticar just to get 200 bucks Doom owed him. This lead to the classic line "Where's my money, honey", directed at Doom.

Knowing Wizard, they did it because Bendis has a man-crush on him.

[Tirian]

Luke Cage probably got a boost from being on the Earth-Hostess review board (http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess.htm).

[TheEmerged]

Not to be rude but... credibility was lost for me at the mention of "Wizard Magazine". They have some obvious bias and have botched several such lists in the past.

And as for comics having "grown"... Comics seems to be experiencing a period of regression again.