OOTS #583 - The Discussion Thread

[Lira]

Okay, I don't know why the Giant hasn't posted a topic about this yet... he can delete mine when he does.

Anyways, wasn't that hilarious! I laughed so hard. :smallbiggrin:

[Zenos]

It came on whne I was here! And of course, hilariously funny.

[expirement10K14]

IT'S A TRAP.

Looks like Durkon has made one with the trees, for now.

[Etheric]

Ok who predicted that one ;D

Definately not what I was expecting.

There was a small clue on the previous on in that the tree seemed to move a bit closer to Elan in the end panels.

That is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. Brilliant.

[Mauve Shirt]

THE TREES!
Totally didn't see that coming. :smallbiggrin:

[blondie_tealeaf]

Um ... was that just Elan being competent and sensible???

Wondering what side of the bed I got out of today...

I suppose it *is* a social situation and he is a bard.

[blackspeeker]

Okay, I don't know why the Giant hasn't posted a topic about this yet... he can delete mine when he does.

Anyways, wasn't that hilarious! I laughed so hard. :smallbiggrin:

Same here, I hope Elan can convince her to stat good, even after what looks like a paladin ambush.

[Linkavitch]

Awesome comic, Mr. the Giant! I love Therkla's expression in the next to last panel! "Or, maybe, we could get pizza sometime." HAHA! Priceless!

[SlightlyEvil]

Epic. Win.

OK. Therkla pulling a Heel Face Turn is good. The trees actually being evil is hilarious. Durkon apparently being in-panel the whole time elevates it to whole new levels of awesome.

EDIT: On about 2.6 seconds reflection, this is obviously just the rest of the team with some sort of illusion. Note the reference to smiting Qarr, and the fact that they're wielding a katana (Hinjo), a spear (Lien), and a hammer & shield (Durkon, even more transparently present than the rest).

[AtomicKitKat]

Heh. Durkon and the rest keeping an eye out for Elan. I predict Qarr might actually get sent back to whichever lower plane Imps come from(been too long since I checked).

[Kobold-Bard]

I've never seen that before, I went from one page to another and the comic had changed. Nice little treat.

Anyway agree with above, haven't really been a fan of the group on the ship but that was funny.
I wonder, will there be an explanation of how they convinced Durkon to hide amongst trees, or will it be left for us to imagine?

[Rev. George]

I wonder, will there be an explanation of how they convinced Durkon to hide amongst trees, or will it be left for us to imagine?

Pretty sure it is an illusion spell.

-+G

[Lissou]

So Therkla wasn't trying to attack Elan... That's a point in her favour, I guess. She's starting to sound nicer ^^

[MyrddinDerwydd]

Sweet Tree Revenge!!!!!!!!! I'm not sure why the 583 topic isn't up yet either, but it rocks that we're all here before it!:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Deathtouched]

Best ending ever! :smallbiggrin: Trees with swords!

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I think that
A) The Giant should just pin this topic as the discussion thread.

B)Was an awesome comic

[Istari]

That was so awsome!:smallbiggrin:

[IM@work]

Finally some tree attacks! I've been waiting for years for this to happen!

[pendell]

Surely I'm not the only person who's noticed one of the 'trees' is wielding a cold iron
katana in the last panel. It's obviously Hinjo under an illusion. I'm willing to bet the tree with a spear next to him is Lien.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[HOLEkevin]

Yeah, that's a pretty old D&D spell that turns a large number of people into the illusions of trees. Good for hiding an army real quick.

I'm just surprised that no one said or did anything when it looked like Elan was getting a shuriken tossed into his face. I guess everyone else has a higher Sense Motive… no, Insight skill than I do. LOL!

[Phae Nymna]

O the Hilarity! I loved it.

[Aurorax]

The Trees, the trees!

[Evil DM Mark3]

Sigh. Elan, how do you even remember to breathe?

[Pandabear]

Take that! 1d2 damage against a barkskinned target.. (well not exactly, but you get the idea..) nice job hitting something of Tiny size though..

[shaddy_24]

It took me a moment to figure out which tree was who, but when I did it became pretty funny. Though who's the one with the bow right behind Durkon?

Oh, and as for why they didn't act before Therkla? She won initiative. Then she attacked Qwar, and they decided to wait a bit more before acting.

[Querzis]

That was great. I havent really laughed out loud at a comic in a long time before this. It was awesome.

Anyway, anyone else realized that Elan said: «as my brother was»? It seems he really think Nale died in the castle explosion. I cant wait until he see him again.

[Linkavitch]

Pretty good. Yes I know i posted before, but that was cuz I thought that the previous comic was 583, cuz it just updated a few days ago. So I posted on the official 582 thread, about 582, looked at the threads, saw this one, thought is was abot the new one, re-posted my post about 582 onto this one, and then realized that the Giant put up a new comic while I was online, which was sweet.

[Sabre13]

We were all TOTALLY wrong about the dagger and Shuriken. Kudos to Therkla for the turnaround! I cant wait for the smiting to begin on the little imp Nevermind*.
The question is, how will Hinjo and Lien take Therkla? Durkon is a more generous and forgiving sort, but im not sure about the rest. Twelve gods be mnrciful to her


* In the book Red Sky at Morning, the Character Maria used "nevermind" to replace "bastard"

[Bongos]

Therkla and Elan sitting in a tree.......

[TARINunit9]

In the last row, figuring out what happened was pathetically easy because of Durkon's little slip-of-the-tongue. But still, the Paladins' plan was a great one!

[Geno9999]

Dear Lord, Durkon was right!:smalleek:

[chiasaur11]

These trees seem to be on the side of good, though.

Can't trust trees.

Also: This strip was awesome.

[bibliophile]

Tree Shape
Transmutation
Level: Drd 2, Rgr 3
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)

By means of this spell, you are able to assume the form of a Large living tree or shrub or a Large dead tree trunk with a small number of limbs.


Tree shape, which is pretty clearly the spell used to disguise the team, is a druid and ranger spell. Who cast it? There are neither here. The divine casters could have cast it from a scroll, but why would Durkon have one, let alone many of these scrolls? Paladins general frown on spying and ambush, so why would they have tree shape scrolls? Any ideas where these came from?


On an unrelated note, great comic Giant! I never saw any of this coming.

[RMS Oceanic]

Maybe not Tree Shape. They could just be illusions. AC doesn't strike me as the city to produce many rangers or druids, so it's more likely Vaarsuvius or even Elan under V's tutelage produced these illusions.

[Ganurath]

The trees are illusions. Durkon and his allies infiltrated their ranks because they were coconspiring with Kubota.

Therkla is joining the side of the PCs and Good Nobles. I'll admit, I was worried after that last comic with all the talk of rape that Therkla was going to be the new Miko. However, my concerns are well at rest.

Also, Quar making disparging comments about Therkla's lineage as a half-orc. Giant, when he dies, make sure it's a slow and painful death. Or quick and graphic. Really, just make him suffer.

[Calamity]

I doubt Elan did it. He seems as surprised as Therkla and Qarr do.

[drakokirby]

I just went Rofl after seeing the trees. However, that is Hinjo's group. That rock or bush right their is Durkon. Katnana is Hinjo and spear is Lien. V is probably still sleeping.

[Spiryt]

It's definetly not Tree Shape. In tree shape you have actual tree shape indeed, so you of course cannot move,hold weapons, or speak.

It's an illusion.

[memnarch]

Love the way all the weapons are floating in the air, especially the hammer and shield. And, as far as I can remember, it's the first time I've done a double take to something I saw online. :smallbiggrin:

[Kobold-Bard]

I just went Rofl after seeing the trees. However, that is Hinjo's group. That rock or bush right their is Durkon. Katnana is Hinjo and spear is Lien. V is probably still sleeping.

V doesn't sleep. He/she/it is an elf.

[Spiryt]

Congratulations Lira. It seems that you would be only person besides Giant so far to have your own, sticked strip disscusion thread. :smallwink:

If I remember well, of course.

[Ruduen]

OMG! Durkon was RIGHT. Look out Elan, the tree behind you is totally sneaking up to your feets! (See second panel, then down to the last)

Someone got that RIGHT in the last comic discussion thread. Wow.

[Lira]

Congratulations Lira. It seems that you would be only person besides Giant so far to have your own, sticked strip disscusion thread. :smallwink:

If I remember well, of course.I'm not sure about that. Other people have had the discussion thread topic (a long time ago) although I wouldn't know if they were stickied or not.

Anyways, back ontopic, I love this comic. I hope Hinjo does allow Therkla to work for him.

[Yendor]

Aw yeah. That was awesome.

So the good guys have Therkla, who's willing to quit. Mustache Lad's in for it now.

[Solara]

Haven't posted in awhile, but today's strip was unbelievably awesome. One of my favorites in a while, and that's saying a lot considering I really enjoyed the Haley/Celia/Belkar scenes as well.

I guess there's still a chance Therkla could freak out about the ambush, but here's hoping she has a bright future as the Amazing Ninja Girl on Team Good. :smallsmile:

later she should hook up with Thog because he's sweet too and really needs to be gotten away from Sabine and Nale...

[Spiryt]

V doesn't sleep. He/she/it is an elf.

This just means that he must have Elfish equivalent of sleep for 4 hours a day.

[The Giant]

I'm suffering from intermittent internet access today, so I was able to get the new strip up eventually, but lost access before I could post the thread. Since it's taken so long for me to get it back, it's easier to sticky Lira's thread than to start a second one.

[Lydronk]

Wonder if you noticed. Qarr's split sentences make sense!

He says:
"You treacherous bitch, I will-"
on the following square:
"... just say, "Oww"?"

I wonder if this means anything?

[teratorn]

There was at least one poster in the thread about the previous strip who saw this coming (Therkla going after something else than Elan). And there were a few noticing something funny about the trees. Good spot checks guys (or is it perception now?).

It is still strange how easily Therkla shifted sides, maybe she isn't truly evil after all. Ok ninja girl and bard boy are now officially in the same team!

[Killersquid]

There was at least one poster in the thread about the previous strip who saw this coming (Therkla going after something else than Elan). And there were a few noticing something funny about the trees. Good spot checks guys (or is it perception now?).

Nah, Sense Motive. Genre Savvy characters get a +8 Racial Bonus and can Take 10, even when rushed or threatened.

[RMS Oceanic]

Will this development lead to a quick conclusion of the "Kubota want's to be Ruler" subplot? Or will he weasel his way out because neither of his accomplices mentioned him by name?

I kinda hope for the former, as it gives us an excuse to see that cleric of Loki.

[chiasaur11]

Tree Shape
Transmutation
Level: Drd 2, Rgr 3
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)

By means of this spell, you are able to assume the form of a Large living tree or shrub or a Large dead tree trunk with a small number of limbs.


Tree shape, which is pretty clearly the spell used to disguise the team, is a druid and ranger spell. Who cast it? There are neither here. The divine casters could have cast it from a scroll, but why would Durkon have one, let alone many of these scrolls? Paladins general frown on spying and ambush, so why would they have tree shape scrolls? Any ideas where these came from?


On an unrelated note, great comic Giant! I never saw any of this coming.

They could just be simple tree suits.

[Frictional]

I doubt Elan did it. He seems as surprised as Therkla and Qarr do.

I would just like to point out this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0217.html).

Also: comic = win.

Also also, I'm a message board noob. How to I turn that link into a word or something? >.<

[Edit Also] Thanks!

[teratorn]

Wonder if you noticed. Qarr's split sentences make sense!

He says:
"You treacherous bitch, I will-"
on the following square:
"... just say, "Oww"?"

I wonder if this means anything?

Nope it doesn't. The "... just say, Oww" is Qarr finishing Therkla's sentence.

[Ganurath]

Will this development lead to a quick conclusion of the "Kubota want's to be Ruler" subplot? Or will he weasel his way out because neither of his accomplices mentioned him by name?

I kinda hope for the former, as it gives us an excuse to see that cleric of Loki.I'm pretty sure that Therkla will have no problem mentioning Kubota by name if Hinjo is willing to give her a job.

[RMS Oceanic]

I would just like to point out http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0217.html.

Also: comic = win.

Also also, I'm a message board noob. How to I turn that link into a word or something? >.<


[ url=www.yoururlhere.com ]And text here[/ url].

The results are something like this (http://www.yahoo.com).


I'm pretty sure that Therkla will have no problem mentioning Kubota by name if Hinjo is willing to give her a job.

My Law & Order marathon-induced legal knowledge would peg that as uncorroborated accomplice testimony. Not the most reliable source of evidence, especially when attained through a deal with the prosecutor/Hinjo.

[NENAD]

This sub-plot could get itself resolved in five strips flat if Therkla joins the good guys and rats Kubota out. And with a cleric of Loki quite possibly on his way to rez Roy...I think all the "Roy is not coming back" people are about to eat their words. For the first time in about a month, I think a strip 600 roysurrection might be possible.

[Spiryt]

They could just be simple tree suits.

Maybe, just maybe Elan is stupid enough to mistake people in the tree suits with actual trees, but certainly Therkla or Quarr aren't. Especially that they have darkvision.

[SteveMB]

I'm pretty sure that Therkla will have no problem mentioning Kubota by name if Hinjo is willing to give her a job.

Hinjo pretty much knows that Kubota is guilty (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0503.html) -- he just needs to be able to prove it before moving against him.

[RMS Oceanic]

Hinjo pretty much knows that Kubota is guilty (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0503.html) -- he just needs to be able to prove it before moving against him.

Exactly. And proof will not come from uncorroborated testimony of an accomplice who testifies in exchange for a deal. Now if she can point Jack McCoy and Lennie Briscoe Hinjo and Elan in the direction of hard evidence, things would be different.

[Majiy]

I'm pretty sure that Therkla will have no problem mentioning Kubota by name if Hinjo is willing to give her a job.

...if she survives the next strip. :smallconfused:

[RMS Oceanic]

...if she survives the next strip. :smallconfused:

Oh great, that guy who said she was the next Cliffport Police Chief will turn out to be right. :smalleek:

[Ganurath]

...if she survives the next strip. :smallconfused:Please. Quar is within reaching of at least one smitey paladin, and to our knowledge Kubota doesn't have any other minions with a capacity for stealth. He has his House Soldiers, but bringing them to bear would be rather damning.

Oh, and Quar setting Therkla up for a flank? This verifies that Ninjas are actually Rogues rather than the Ninja class, as sudden strike does not benefit from flanking.

[PhallicWarrior]

Of course Durkon's the bush, he isn't tall enough to be the tree. [/non sequitur]

[SteveMB]

Exactly. And proof will not come from uncorroborated testimony of an accomplice who testifies in exchange for a deal. Now if she can point Jack McCoy and Lennie Briscoe Hinjo and Elan in the direction of hard evidence, things would be different.

Hmmm...

If and when he finds out that Therkla switched sides, Kubota might give himself away be trying to silence her or otherwise cover his tracks.

[RMS Oceanic]

Please. Quar is within reaching of at least one smitey paladin, and to our knowledge Kubota doesn't have any other minions with a capacity for stealth. He has his House Soldiers, but bringing them to bear would be rather damning.

Quar may not be the one to do it, but if I were as law-savvy as Kubota, I'd ensure that nothing could be traced to me when enacting nefarious plots. If the mission fails, I'd enact a scorched earth policy if necessary.

[Vulion]

Heh heh, this was a great comic.

I love Durkon's comment at the end.:smallbiggrin:

[Ceric]

The trees were great! Hey, Qarr, this is way better than the Olympics!

[Tundar]

Hahahaha, brilliant!

[Daen]

Brilliant, as usual. :smallbiggrin:

[nowiwantmydmg]

Semi-long running subplots-potentially to be resolved? Hurray!

As an aside I don't think the team will be reunited until Xylon's crew is ready to move out to the next gate though.

[silvadel]

What is really good for therkla here is that she turned coat verbally BEFORE the trees were revealed. Since she already said "I quit" and took Elans offer to join with Hinjo, Hinjo being LG cant just turn around and lock her in irons.

[Georlik]

Great! Just great! A haven't laughed like that since #538
I even registered here, just to say: "Thank you! It is hillarious!"
It seems like Liwen was right:

OMG! Durkon was RIGHT. Look out Elan, the tree behind you is totally sneaking up to your feets! (See second panel, then down to the last)
Of course Durkon has been right earlier than Liwen's prediction. Nevertheless Liwen pointed "tree-thing" out earlier than Elan did.
Also TehGrimmeReaper amased me:

I bet the little demon creature pops out from behind a tree.
Are you guys forseers or something? Or you've ninja'd The Plot without being noticed?
Or, maybe, The Giant uses some ideas of his fans? However- trees are great, importance of antagonism- perfect! Just love it!

[Ganurath]

Quar may not be the one to do it, but if I were as law-savvy as Kubota, I'd ensure that nothing could be traced to me when enacting nefarious plots. If the mission fails, I'd enact a scorched earth policy if necessary.Ah, but Kubota is a seasoned veteran of cloak and dagger. He knows that orgies of violence draw unwanted attention. (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20041222.html). Nevermind the bloody footprints.

Of course, I could see a Contingent Banishment being applied to Quar if he tries to sing to avoid getting killed...

Note to self: Next time DMing, have cloak and dagger villain apply Contingent kill spells to his more informed minions.

[Logalmier]

The question now is will she still be able to get a job with Hinjo? It should be clear to everyone who heard their discussion (except maybe Elan) that Therkla's evil. And the people who heard it constitute as two paladins, a LG cleric of Thor, and a good fighter/archer, whatever. Not to mention that she used to work with a devil. Had clear orders to kill Elan, and was working directly with kubota to assassinate Hinjo! Even with Elans support she might be hard pressed to get that past a group of Paladins.

Qarr said he was missing the Olympics. What sort of Olympics does a devil watch? The kind that take place on his home plane. Stuff like 'Synchronized Swimming Through Lava' or 'Make the lost Soul Scream the Loudest'.

[Doug Lampert]

Also also, I'm a message board noob. How to I turn that link into a word or something? >.<

At the top of your reply window there should be an icon that looks like a little picture of the world with a pair of linked loops below it. This is the createlink.gif (http://scripts.ringsworld.com/news-publishing/easynews17/icons/createlink.gif.html) image.

Open the thing you want to link to and copy the URL. Then highlight the text you want to link, then click on this. It will ask for the URL you want to link to, paste into that window.

DougL

[Drascin]

I'm pretty sure that Therkla will have no problem mentioning Kubota by name if Hinjo is willing to give her a job.

I'm not really sure about that. Kubota may be a bastard, but he raised her and trusted her when no one else did. I can very well see someone like Therkla thinking that silence on this particular account is the least she owes him after changing jobs without warning him.

[Ganurath]

I'm not really sure about that. Kubota may be a bastard, but he raised her and trusted her when no one else did. I can very well see someone like Therkla thinking that silence on this particular account is the least she owes him after changing jobs without warning him.Actually, he didn't hire her until after she graduated from the ninja academy. She may respect him because he didn't think any less of her for being a half-orc (which makes me wonder about the "Good" nobles) but I doubt there has ever been a situation where Therkla has wanted something for herself during her time in Kubota's employ, let alone wanted it and been told to destroy it.

Also, Kubota's ninjas are subordinates of Therkla. I'm pretty sure there was a Primarch in the Horus Heresy who betrayed the Empire because his loyalty to Horus was greater than that to the God Emperor. Perhaps Hinjo is looking at a solid counterassassination team in the near future?

[Tingel]

What is really good for therkla here is that she turned coat verbally BEFORE the trees were revealed. Since she already said "I quit" and took Elans offer to join with Hinjo, Hinjo being LG cant just turn around and lock her in irons.
Of course he can. Quitting your hitman job doesn't exculpate you from your previous murderous deeds.

[RebelRogue]

There is unrest in the forest: trouble with the trees :smallbiggrin:

[Lizard Lord]

The question now is will she still be able to get a job with Hinjo? It should be clear to everyone who heard their discussion (except maybe Elan) that Therkla's evil. And the people who heard it constitute as two paladins, a LG cleric of Thor, and a good fighter/archer, whatever. Not to mention that she used to work with a devil. Had clear orders to kill Elan, and was working directly with kubota to assassinate Hinjo! Even with Elans support she might be hard pressed to get that past a group of Paladins.


But, assuming they all make their sense motive, she has shown a clear desire to change her ways.

[Superglucose]

Ah, I think Lien and Hinjo will be forgiving enough. Keep in mind they're the good kind of Paladin, the kind that's about honor and redemption. Also,



In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, it is better to recapture an army entire than to destroy it, to capture a regiment, a detachment or a company entire than to destroy them.

Welcome aboard, Therkla! :smallcool:

[Ganurath]

Of course he can. Quitting your hitman job doesn't exculpate you from your previous murderous deeds.You mean like killing sea trolls that were attacking Hinjo's junk? Or killing the shaman's fun of sacrificing half of the Sapphire Guard? Okay, a quarter, but they don't know about the survivors in Recloak City.

[pendell]

The bit about uncorroborated evidence depends on how
closely AC law follows US law. I've just finished "Lone Wolf and Cub",
and the word of Therkla would be more than enough, in that world, for the
Shogun to order Kuroda to commit seppuku.

But -- wonderful strip, Giant! The last panel had me laughing and redeems the whole arc,
which I had previously detested! I guess I should wait until the arc is completed before leaping to conclusions. And you even broke the fourth wall!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ganurath]

The bit about uncorroborated evidence depends on how
closely AC law follows US law. I've just finished "Lone Wolf and Cub",
and the word of Therkla would be more than enough, in that world, for the
Shogun to order Kuroda to commit seppuku.

But -- wonderful strip, Giant! The last panel had me laughing and redeems the whole arc,
which I had previously detested! I guess I should wait until the arc is completed before leaping to conclusions. And you even broke the fourth wall!

Respectfully,

Brian P.Especially in a world where Zone of Truth is a second level spell.

[Drascin]

Actually, he didn't hire her until after she graduated from the ninja academy. She may respect him because he didn't think any less of her for being a half-orc (which makes me wonder about the "Good" nobles) but I doubt there has ever been a situation where Therkla has wanted something for herself during her time in Kubota's employ, let alone wanted it and been told to destroy it.

Ah, right, sorry. Was getting my characters a bit mixed up. Still, she seems to genuinely appreciate that Kubota was willing to trust her (it has been seen that he trusts her word avobe Qarr's, right?), and most characters with discrimination antecedents tend to feel at least slightly grateful to those who don't care about what they are.

[Holammer]

Good strip with unexpected turn of events.
Al thought, the smart alec might suggest Therkla needs to give the two weeks notice before quitting :smallamused:

[Fish]

I can't be the only one who still has his AD&D (version 2) books. The spell is likely Massmorph (4th level Mage and Illusionist spell).

"A company of cretures can be made to appear as a copse, grove, or orchard. Furthermore, these massmorphed creatures can be passed through — and even touched — by other creatures without revealing the illusion. Note, however, that blows to the creature-trees will reveal their nature, as damage will be sustained by the creatures struck and blood will be seen..."

[Tingel]

You mean like killing sea trolls that were attacking Hinjo's junk?
Therkla is a professional assassin. Sea trolls are hardly her only victims, so I don't understand your demur. On top of that, attempted murder and conspiring to kill the rightful heir to the throne are certainly crimes as well, and she has openly admitted being guilty of them.

[Nevitan]

Or, maybe, The Giant uses some ideas of his fans? However- trees are great, importance of antagonism- perfect! Just love it!

I would really doubt that, It says so in the FAQ that He doesn't use ideas he sees in the forums for the comic and Ifhe does end up seeing a prediction in the forums that detail exactly what he had planned out he might just change what would happen. And think that if he did use the ideas posted in the forums I'd be a bit disappointed because then I'd have to stop coming to the forums or I'd lose any entertainment that I got out of the comic because I'd of already found out what would happen in the next comic.

[Wikkin]

I liked Elan in the second panel, checking himself and opening one eye to make sure it's safe!

:elan:

[Healer Hobo]

Oh, good lord, Giant. That was hilarious! The best comic I've seen in a long time. Yay for Therkla turning to the good guys!

[The Extinguisher]

Insert Macbeth joke.

[Ganurath]

Therkla is a professional assassin. Sea trolls are hardly her only victims, so I don't understand your demur. On top of that, attempted murder and conspiring to kill the rightful heir to the throne are certainly crimes as well, and she has openly admitted being guilty of them.And what does Azure City do with high level criminals in hard times (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html)? Pay may not be much starting off, but she'll be working alongside Elan instead of against him, and that's the next best thing to being his girlfriend. I'm sure TVTropes has something explaining how she'll have finished working off her time just in time for Haley and Elan to be reunited.

[Monation]

Oh I totally wasn't expecting that outcome for the comic. At first I was like wait... is this for real? And then it hit me like a flying brick.
The real question in my mind now is... will Therkla be allowed to ride Hinjo's Junk?

[Ironwolf172]

That was the best comic ever!

[Yendor]

And what does Azure City do with high level criminals in hard times (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html)? Pay may not be much starting off, but she'll be working alongside Elan instead of against him, and that's the next best thing to being his girlfriend. I'm sure TVTropes has something explaining how she'll have finished working off her time just in time for Haley and Elan to be reunited.

She attempted to assassinate Hinjo. That's treason. She ain't getting off that easily.

[bosssmiley]

Yay for unexpected revival of massmorph (or possibly just spamming tree shape).
Also Yay! for Therkla heel face turn. :smallbiggrin:

4E players. Don't worry, I understand that this 'Illusion school' of which we speak is all Greek to you...

[Liwen]

Ok who predicted that one ;D

Definately not what I was expecting.

There was a small clue on the previous on in that the tree seemed to move a bit closer to Elan in the end panels.

That is the funniest thing I have read in a long time. Brilliant.

I saw this one coming!!! I knew it! But I didn't expect Durkon to suceed so well on a hide check

[Ganurath]

She attempted to assassinate Hinjo. That's treason. She ain't getting off that easily.What are you talking about? She may have been ordered to assassinate Hinjo, but the only time she's ever had a weapon drawn around him was when the sea trolls were attacking. She's never done anything to harm Hinjo.

[Admiral_Kelly]

This was a totally dumb update. What did Burlew do to Therkla's character? The more I read this comic the more I have to convince myself to keep following it.

Seriously,this was all done so that Therkla and Elan could have a chance of getting together and make it seem plausible when they do in the next ten or so comics. This is so stupid, nobody reads OotS for the romantic relationships of stick figures!
There is also a considerable lack of A-plot going on as well. :smallannoyed: What about the gates!? When are we going to get to the next gate?

[Ganurath]

This was a totally dumb update. What did the Giant do to Therkla's character? The more I read this comic the more I have to convince myself to keep reading through it.What did he do to Therkla's character? He made her act consistent given her previous decisions.
Seriously,this was all done so that Therkla and Elan could have a chance of getting together and make it seem plausible when they do in the next ten or so comics. This is so stupid, nobody reads OotS for the romantic relationships of stick figures!Really? I'm looking at it and seeing a HeelFaceTurn allowing Therkla to expose Kubota so that he can be brought to justice.
There is also a considerable lack of A-plot going on as well. :smallannoyed: What about the gates!? When are we going to get to the next gate?When the Azurites are permanently settled. Or when Redcloak makes his hobgoblin city self-sufficient. Or when Roy gets revived. The Fall of Azure City had some major rammifications. Sweeping those under the table for the sake of accelerating the plot would be... poor DMing.

[Admiral_Kelly]

What did he do to Therkla's character? He made her act consistent given her previous decisions.I respectfully disagree. Were Therkla's actions consistent? She gave up her job and years of loyalty to Kubota over a stupid crush!?

'Well, she was offered a job to work for Hinjo.' Yes, and she has every reason to believe Hinjo, a paladin, would hire a half-orc ninja. There is no guarantee she would get this job and further no guarantee she would get paid as much or receive any of the benefits! Further, Kubota clearly has the upper hand here - why switch to the loosing side?

'Well, she does have a crush on Elan.' A clearly unrequited one! If she tried to pursue it anyway it would make far more sense if she kidnapped Elan, claim she killed him, and then advance with the story.

Therkla's character has been hit by sniper rifle containing a 50 caliber bullet.

[AmberVael]

Yes, and she has every reason to believe Hinjo, a paladin, would hire a half-orc ninja.

Not that she'd look at it this way, but Hinjo hired Elan for his bodyguard... compared to him, I think a half-orc ninja would be a great person to hire. :smalltongue:

[Ganurath]

I respectfully disagree. Were Therkla's actions consistent? She gave up her job and years of loyalty to Kubota over a stupid crush!?So she's Neutral Evil rather than Lawful Evil. She does what she wants if she can get away with it. Besides, as previously stated, we've never known Kubota to order her to kill what she wants before.
'Well, she was offered a job to work for Hinjo.' Yes, and she has every reason to believe Hinjo, a paladin, would hire a half-orc ninja. There is no guarantee she would get this job and further no guarantee she would get paid as much or receive any of the benefits! Further, Kubota clearly has the upper hand here - why switch to the loosing side?Because she's the leader of Kubota's ninjas, so whichever side she's on is the winning side in a conflict of cloak and dagger. With practical chances of winning nonissue, it becomes a matter of personal preference of allies.
'Well, she does have a crush on Elan.' A clearly unrequited one! If she tried to pursue it anyway it would make far more sense if she kidnapped Elan, claim she killed him, and then advance with the story.Ah, but that would be bad for Elan, and her crush isn't purely physical attraction: She does care about how he feels.

[hamishspence]

Maybe Therkla's evil is not a uber-strong Evil. Her infatuation with Elan, unrequited or not, might be strong enough to overcome her normally Evil nature.

Savage Species reminds us Evil creatures do not have to act Evil toward everyone. They can be kind parents, loyal friends, etc, and still be Evil.

[Spiryt]

Well, if it's stretched, it's only a bit I think.

Firstly, indeed she seems selfish, and from her surprised tone we can just assume that being raised as a ninja, she just wasn't able to come up with idea of betraying her master.

Also her action is visibly compulsive, spontanic - he do it quite beacuse she really hates Qarr, and he again irritated her.

[Felixaar]

Hmm. Spear says Lien and the Shrub is clearly Durkon, but who of our azurite gang has a bow? And I could swear that Hinjo's Katana is like, black.

[John Campbell]

I respectfully disagree. Were Therkla's actions consistent? She gave up her job and years of loyalty to Kubota over a stupid crush!?
Ever since her introduction, Therkla has consistently failed to do that job and interfered with Kubota's greater plans because of that stupid crush. This is not a new development, or in any way inconsistent with her past behaviour. She's just taken one more step in the direction she's been moving all along.

[Animefunkmaster]

Oh man, didn't see any of that coming. epic.

[Spiryt]

And I could swear that Hinjo's Katana is like, black.

Well it looked kinda black during the duel with Miko, but since then, it was always grey. I guess it's just the matter of colouring in one strip.

Black swords come from car springs, we can assume that Hinjo's is a bit better stuff :smallwink:

[Dartonus]

I think that they should kill the imp and take therkla into custody as evidence against Kubota. once the imp's dead, it'll be gone for a long, long time, as mentioned in FC 2.

[Callista]

Therkla is such an Eponine clone. With, y'know, more ninja-ness.

[Lupy]

That was the greatest comic in weeks! :smallbiggrin: Is tha trees!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

HAHAHAHA...

Wow. That last panel. Who wants to bet that the Giant saw people joking about Durkon and the trees, and drew it that way? But anyhow, no longer is it an artistic mess-up, it's actual evidence! The trees really were out to get them! That was awesome.

I totally loved the line, too...

"You know...just 'cause I can't be your boyfriend doesn't mean you have to kill me."

"... It doesn't?"

That clinched it for me. Therkla isn't dead-set evil, I'd peg her down as a neutral. See how easy she got persuaded out of killing? Either that, or Elan rolled a critical success for Diplomacy.

Love this one.

[hamishspence]

I'd go more with Evil, but not majorly so. Her job pretty much requires it: Murder in general and murder for money in particular are not acts that scream Neutral in the D&D universe.

That said, there are numerous movies and books featuring hired killers who aren't utterly malevolent. Hopefully we can add Therkla to that list: the "evil, but not vicious" type.

[Jigsaw Forte]

MOST HILARIOUS COMIC IN AGES.:smallbiggrin:

... Clearly Elan may have been more trusting of Therkla, but the rest of the squad wasn't. Sounds like a subplot's finally about to wrap up.

[cheesecake]

Am I the only one you thinks Therkla is cute??

[Max_Sinister]

Whoa! Until now, the situation was just pretty tricky, with Roy dead, the rest of the party divided and Xykon owning Azure City. But now with the walking trees (ents? treants?), things have gone pretty crazy.

All in all, the OotS is deep in trouble, and I hope they've reached rock bottom now. Because if they fall much deeper, I don't see much hope for them.

[Jigsaw Forte]

Am I the only one you thinks Therkla is cute??

Naw. Everyone loves a Green Skinned Babe (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GreenSkinnedSpaceBabe).

[Hackman]

Surely I'm not the only person who's noticed one of the 'trees' is wielding a cold iron
katana in the last panel. It's obviously Hinjo under an illusion. I'm willing to bet the tree with a spear next to him is Lien.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

That's what the trees want you to think! They've killed everyone else and have decided to capture Elan so they can question him about the gates!

[Ikialev]

SO.
Can iou now stop talking about rapes?

[factotum]

But now with the walking trees (ents? treants?), things have gone pretty crazy.

All in all, the OotS is deep in trouble, and I hope they've reached rock bottom now.

Er...you didn't notice that the walking trees were clearly Hinjo, Lien, Durkon, and A.N. Other of the good guys in disguise? Look at the weapons, and note that the bush at the bottom right is speaking in Durkon's voice...

[ralphmerridew]

She attempted to assassinate Hinjo. That's treason. She ain't getting off that easily.

Therkla never swore loyalty to Azure City, Shojo, or Hinjo. It's not treason.

[Werewindlefr]

I take it back. I have sympathy for the half-orc now.

And I always knew Durkon was right. Did you seriously doubt it?

[fractal]

Regardless of treason or not, Therkla herself clearly believed she was evil as of episode 560 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0560.html). She had better switch alignments soon, or else the paladins won't be willing to associate with her.

[David Argall]

Apparently neither of our lovers are much good at keeping secrets. Of course, we don’t expect much of Elan that way, but even if Qarr was watching, Therkla knew that and should have been able to avoid his following her to a meeting where she hoped to really violate all of Kubota’s orders.

Oh yes, anyone thinking of this as a case of our writer taking our advice should note that this scene was set up from back in the last time we visited Elan. Notice Lien asking Hinjo for a private meeting.


Were Therkla's actions consistent? She gave up her job and years of loyalty to Kubota over a stupid crush!?
While one may question whether real people are not more, well realistic, about such a choice, literature abounds with people switching sides for love. For an example from what is deemed more respectable literature, see Taras Bulba.


'Well, she was offered a job to work for Hinjo.' Yes, and she has every reason to believe Hinjo, a paladin, would hire a half-orc ninja. There is no guarantee she would get this job and further no guarantee she would get paid as much or receive any of the benefits! Further, Kubota clearly has the upper hand here - why switch to the loosing side?
She has decided that hurting Elan is unthinkable. Since the alternatives are hurting Elan or switching sides, she switches sides, no matter what the prospects. Besides Elan has said she can get a job with Hinjo. And Elan can obviously do no wrong. He must be right.


'Well, she does have a crush on Elan.' A clearly unrequited one! If she tried to pursue it anyway it would make far more sense if she kidnapped Elan, claim she killed him, and then advance with the story.
The plot might have gone that way, but as it was set up, she didn't have that option. Qarr and the paladins were on the scene before she could implement such a plan B. Recall here that she probably doesn't have much in the way of a place to hide an unwilling Elan. Qarr's knowledge of her diary argues for very limited privacy.


Therkla's character has been hit by sniper rifle containing a 50 caliber bullet.
Nope. It's a fairly standard development. She is consistently centered on Elan.



Yay for unexpected revival of massmorph (or possibly just spamming tree shape).
This is probably not Massmorph. Besides not being a Core spell, the "trees" from a Massmorph spell don't move until the spell is removed and their real forms are revealed. The more likely spell is Veil [6th level wizard or bard].
Now that likely requires V get into the action, at least for the moment.



attempted murder and conspiring to kill the rightful heir to the throne are certainly crimes as well, and she has openly admitted being guilty of them.
Given a good lawyer and a little luck in the trial [such as the witnesses contradicting themselves on what her exact words were], she might walk. The actual evidence against her is shaky. However, even if she gets off, Hinjo has the power to impose the harshest punishment of all, not letting her see Elan. That being the case, the danger of being slowly sliced into a thousand pieces is a trivial consideration.



The bit about uncorroborated evidence depends on how
closely AC law follows US law. I've just finished "Lone Wolf and Cub",
and the word of Therkla would be more than enough, in that world, for the
Shogun to order Kuroda to commit seppuku.
Therkla can provide enough evidence to bring Kubota to trial. Conviction is another matter.
She's a half-orc [strike one]
Her base tale is that she is abandoning her loyalty to someone she has pledged her life to, without any reason valid under that pledge, and is trying to say that the court should grant her honor when she has confessed to being without honor. [strike two]
And she will be faced with something like...
"You love Elan, do you not?"
"Yes"
"You would do anything for him, would you not?"
"Yes"
"...including frame an honored lord of the city, that he had an irrational hatred for, by making up any lies you can to convince this court of his guilt?"
"But I haven't.."
"Answer the question."
"...Yes..."
"Your honor, I move the witness be dismissed and all of her testimony stricken from the record on the ground she is by her own words an unreliable source."

Kubota has a pretty good chance of getting off. In a chaotic court, he would be in trouble, but we are dealing with lawfuls, and form can be more important than fact.



Someone got that RIGHT in the last comic discussion thread. Wow.
Probably not. While 582 ends with the root very close to Elan, 583 starts with the root well back from Elan. There is no in plot reason for such a movement, quite the reverse. So the presumption is that this is simple random art differences.



I'm pretty sure that Therkla will have no problem mentioning Kubota by name if Hinjo is willing to give her a job.
Not so clear. Lots of us assume we owe any former boss the loyalty not to mention any secrets of his.



Therkla never swore loyalty to Azure City, Shojo, or Hinjo. It's not treason.
A-We have not seen it on camera, but one way or another, Therkla almost certainly does qualify as having sworn loyalty. A simple way would be that she has sworn loyalty to Kubota, who has sworn loyalty to Hinjo.
B-The king decides what treason is, and just about any attack on his person generally qualifies.

[NENAD]

This is Hinjo we're talking about, not Miko. He's not going to have her imprisoned/executed ten seconds after she does a heel/face turn. He'll give Therkla a fair shake.

[Tricia]

Kubota has a pretty good chance of getting off. In a chaotic court, he would be in trouble, but we are dealing with lawfuls, and form can be more important than fact.However, in D&D, truth *can* be (fairly well) verified, no matter the source...such as via a Zone of Truth. It's true that this isn't 100% accurate...but given that Truth and Lies are static things in the D&D world, just as Good and Evil are...the legal system is quite a bit different, and there aren't legal loopholes such as this. The only reason Kabuto wasn't prosecuted for his previous attempt was because there wasn't anyone involved who was still alive, and actually *knew* the truth for certain.

[dogmac]

AARGH! The trees!!

The smiting trees!!!

[Mercenary Pen]

Zone of truth would do the trick, now that they have sufficient evidence for a trial. Kubota's almost certainly a serious flight risk, but there're plenty of spells that would keep him in place for long enough that he had to testify, and even if Qarr intervened, V knows dismissal and has other spells if they want to capture him and force his testimony.

[AlexanderRM]

EDIT: On about 2.6 seconds reflection, this is obviously just the rest of the team with some sort of illusion. Note the reference to smiting Qarr, and the fact that they're wielding a katana (Hinjo), a spear (Lien), and a hammer & shield (Durkon, even more transparently present than the rest).
Yeah, I think the comic would have been better, from the cliffhanger angle, if it wasn't so obvious.

On another note, this means that, in the other topic, we had a multi-page discussion of rape for no reason. *sigh*



[ url=www.yoururlhere.com ]
My Law & Order marathon-induced legal knowledge would peg that as uncorroborated accomplice testimony. Not the most reliable source of evidence, especially when attained through a deal with the prosecutor/Hinjo.

Hmm, what does Law&Order tell you about detect evil? Not to mention zone of truth (as already mentioned), discern lies, detect thoughts...





Oh, and Quar setting Therkla up for a flank? This verifies that Ninjas are actually Rogues rather than the Ninja class, as sudden strike does not benefit from flanking.
Oh, and, uh, also the fact that there's no "ninja" class in the core rulebooks, so it must be either some other class (I'd say rogue, perhaps with levels in assassin or something similar) or a homebrew.

[AmberVael]

Oh, and Quar setting Therkla up for a flank? This verifies that Ninjas are actually Rogues rather than the Ninja class, as sudden strike does not benefit from flanking.

She could still be a Ninja- it was never specified that she'd get extra damage, just that Quar set her up for a flank. +2 to hit, after all.


Oh, and, uh, also the fact that there's no "ninja" class in the core rulebooks, so it must be either some other class (I'd say rogue, perhaps with levels in assassin or something similar) or a homebrew.

The Ninja class is in Complete Adventurer.

[mistformsquirrl]

I take it back. I have sympathy for the half-orc now.

And I always knew Durkon was right. Did you seriously doubt it?

How could anyone doubt Durkon! <. .> I certainly never did!

[Zolem]

I wonder, will there be an explanation of how they convinced Durkon to hide amongst trees, or will it be left for us to imagine?

Pretty sure it is an illusion spell.

-+G

Illusionary terrain, disguises creatures en masse as part of the terrain as natural features such as bushes, rocks, and trees.

The tree attack was the only thing out of all my predicitions that I did not consider. If Durkon hadn't talked in the last panle, I might have suspected one of the various tree-like plant monsters like trents, orc-roots, blood briars, ect.

[AyuVince]

As I did stand my watch upon the hill,
I look'd toward Birnam, and anon, methought,
The wood began to move.

Yay for untimely tree rescue! Now go and slay Macb... Kubota. I mean Kubota.

[teratorn]

Am I the only one you thinks Therkla is cute??

Nah, there's hundreds of Therkla's rabid fanboys. Who could resist that sad liitle green face in panel 7?

[RMS Oceanic]

Hmm, what does Law&Order tell you about detect evil? Not to mention zone of truth (as already mentioned), discern lies, detect thoughts...

1. From a lawful point, a person's personality/alignment is not evidence of a crime committed.
2. Two words: Will save. Which, incidentally, is the Aristocrat's good save.

[Jammeez]

later she should hook up with Thog because he's sweet too and really needs to be gotten away from Sabine and Nale...
I'm with you!

[Geno9999]

Hmm... I can't think of any (named) paladins with a bow, so unnamed?
OH, and the idea of where the mass tree shape, couldn't they have gotten some before the hobgobs took AC because they make good camo?

[Deepkicker]

Awesome strip! No. 582 gave me this strange feeling that the story was about to plunge into an uninteresting plotline. I was expecting Elan to be forced into a date with Therkla and it being really awkward or something. I couldn't shake the fact that I just wanted to get things back to Haley.
But then Rich completely turns my expectations around. Strips like this are the reason why I freakin' love this comic! Also, knowing that Durkon, Hinjo, Lien and possibly some nameless soldiers were all present in the scene the entire time makes the previous strip oddly funnier.

[Kish]

This was a totally dumb update. What did Burlew do to Therkla's character? The more I read this comic the more I have to convince myself to keep following it.

Seriously,this was all done so that Therkla and Elan could have a chance of getting together and make it seem plausible when they do in the next ten or so comics. This is so stupid, nobody reads OotS for the romantic relationships of stick figures!
There is also a considerable lack of A-plot going on as well. :smallannoyed: What about the gates!? When are we going to get to the next gate?
Whenever anyone says "stick figures" in that disgusted way, I find myself wondering why s/he reads OotS at all...

I'm also puzzled--is Therkla's crush clearly unrequited, or are she and Elan going to get together in ten strips or so? (Just responding to Admiral Kelly there, mind. I'm pretty sure Therkla's crush is unrequited.)

[Dacia Brabant]

Whenever anyone says "stick figures" in that disgusted way, I find myself wondering why s/he reads OotS at all...

I'm also puzzled--is Therkla's crush clearly unrequited, or are she and Elan going to get together in ten strips or so?

Agreed on the first count, and a definite maybe on the second--once Vaarsuvius announces the failure of that supposedly perfect animal messenger/divination spell to seek out Haley, will they have to believe (wrongly, but to the best of their knowledge) that she's dead? If so, an Elan-Therkla date at the very least may be in their future.

[teratorn]

Agreed on the first count, and a definite maybe on the second--once Vaarsuvius announces the failure of that supposedly perfect animal messenger/divination spell to seek out Haley, will they have to believe (wrongly, but to the best of their knowledge) that she's dead? If so, an Elan-Therkla date at the very least may be in their future.

What would that change? In this world they can bring people from the dead...

[Forealms]

GO THERKLA! WE KNEW YOU HAD IT IN YOU!

I think this is the first Heel Face Turn of the comic.

Also: Did anyone else notice Elan's expression in the second panel? Priceless.

[Werewindlefr]

I wish GwaH was there, as a tree :p.

[Dacia Brabant]

What would that change? In this world they can bring people from the dead...

Yeah and how well has that gone so far with Roy?

[DSCrankshaw]

That was fun.

As for what they do with Therkla, I suspect she'll get some kind of deal. Not necessarily an amnesty, but quite possibly some sort of probation/community service. Hinjo's like that, as we saw when he gave even Belkar the benefit of the doubt.

As for the fact that she's a professional assassin and therefore must be evil... well, AC has a lot of ninjas. I don't really know how a city run by a lawful good order of paladins reconciles itself with that fact, but apparently it does. I suspect they have their own set of laws for how to deal with ninjas.

[disorder]

Am I the only one you thinks Therkla is cute??
Of course you're not. Therkla is cute.

Actually, come to think of it...

Thog? Cute.
shaman vurkle? Cute.
chief grukgruk? Cute-ish.
gok, mungu, krong? Orcs are so cute when they try to learn grammar.
Therkla's mom? Adorable. (Nauseatingly so, according to her daughter.)

So clearly, OOTS-land orcs are savage, tribal, dangerously territorial, and cute as hell.

[DrivinAllNight]

I wonder if she'll turn evidence against Kubota? since Hinjo has to follow the laws and has no evidence against him at the time. But maybe current loyalty's would have to be followed. The tree illusion is a great one, I wonder how Therkla would look in Azure Blue??

[Charles Phipps]

This sub-plot could get itself resolved in five strips flat if Therkla joins the good guys and rats Kubota out. And with a cleric of Loki quite possibly on his way to rez Roy...I think all the "Roy is not coming back" people are about to eat their words. For the first time in about a month, I think a strip 600 roysurrection might be possible.

Actually, given the length of Roy's absence, the "Roy is not coming back" people have nothing to be ashamed of since he's been gone as long as he was actually alive.

[Ganurath]

Of course you're not. Therkla is cute.

Actually, come to think of it...

Thog? Cute.
shaman vurkle? Cute.
chief grukgruk? Cute-ish.
gok, mungu, krong? Orcs are so cute when they try to learn grammar.
Therkla's mom? Adorable. (Nauseatingly so, according to her daughter.)

So clearly, OOTS-land orcs are savage, tribal, dangerously territorial, and cute as hell.*glances over his shoulder at his city-state populated entirely by half-orcs and half-elves, predominantly the former*

There is no question that Therkla is cute. I, for one, also think she is sexy*. Ergo, cute and sexy. *Anyone who disagrees with this should look for Yeril's picture of Therkla in the House of Fanservice.

[Deepkicker]

This sub-plot could get itself resolved in five strips flat if Therkla joins the good guys and rats Kubota out. And with a cleric of Loki quite possibly on his way to rez Roy...I think all the "Roy is not coming back" people are about to eat their words. For the first time in about a month, I think a strip 600 roysurrection might be possible.

I know it's a stretch, but No. 585 will be the current story arc's 100th strip. If the Giant plans to make it significant in any way, ending the "Kubota" subplot with it would be somewhat appropriate

[Ogre Jelly]

Qarr is tiny. He cannot flank. Lying little imp!

[wzeller]

I'm surprised nobody has come up with this yet:

We know Belkar is doomed to draw his last breath within the year.

Therkla, from a purely narrative standpoint fills the same role as Belkar. If Hinjo won't give Therkla a job due to an overdeveloped sense of paladiness, Elan will feel bad a bout it and will promise to put in a good word to Roy for her when he returns. Hiring Therkla into the party allows Belkars role in the story to be filled while allowing Belkar to exit the strip.

Just a thought.

[holywhippet]

I'm surprised nobody has come up with this yet:

We know Belkar is doomed to draw his last breath within the year.

Therkla, from a purely narrative standpoint fills the same role as Belkar. If Hinjo won't give Therkla a job due to an overdeveloped sense of paladiness, Elan will feel bad a bout it and will promise to put in a good word to Roy for her when he returns. Hiring Therkla into the party allows Belkars role in the story to be filled while allowing Belkar to exit the strip.

Just a thought.

I've run this through my brain a few times and I'm not seeing your reasoning. In what way is Therkla the same as Belkar from a narrative point of view, or any point of view?

[Tilian]

I've run this through my brain a few times and I'm not seeing your reasoning. In what way is Therkla the same as Belkar from a narrative point of view, or any point of view?

Though I'm not seeing Therkla as a Belkar replacement yet, I can see some of where he's coming from.(They're both "the criminal", ostensibly they're both killers, Therkla would probably easily fall into the outsider role that Belkar has carved out for himself. It's just jarring for many to compare them because Therkla has had plenty of innocent naivety moments while Belkar is obviously a sociopath.

Also, <3 Therkla. I'm very happy with today's strip. :smallsmile:

[SolkaTruesilver]

My though process:

1) Oh s****!! The Giant really went ahead and made the tree alive!
5 seconds later
2) Err.. why is Durkon there..? Oh.. so is Lien, and Hinjo.. this is an illusion! Awesome!!

[Tobimaro]

So, when Leaky (the evil druid) comes back to haunt the OotS with his awakened trees, will both Elan and Durkon run away? Just asking.

Oh, and nice to see that Qarr is keeping up on current events. "I'm missing the Olympics." :smallbiggrin:

[Ganurath]

Qarr is tiny. He cannot flank. Lying little imp!In his defense: Imps prefer to stay out of fights. He wouldn't know combat rules.

[Frozen_Northman]

Best fake-out by the Giant that I have seen yet. I totally did NOT see this coming, and it was wonderful.

[dps]

Yeah, I didn't see it coming either.

[Martok]

Hee! Way to go, Durkon & Co.! Great set-up! (Who's the fourth "tree", though? Daigo?) :smallbiggrin:

Also: Much love for Therkla. :smallcool: I'm liking her more and more....which probably means she'll almost certainly be either killed and/or turn completely evil. :smallfrown: Ah well.




Best fake-out by the Giant that I have seen yet. I totally did NOT see this coming, and it was wonderful.
Seconded. Fantastic strip, Rich!

[Marlowe]

I'd almost be inclined to suggest the bow-wielding tree is Vaarsuvius. He'd have to be involved (though granted, maybe not present) to cast the illusion spell, and we know he's proficient with a bow even though he refused to stick around to use one at Azure City. Granted, he's never used a normal weapon before, but he's under a bit of stress lately and might be prepared to try new things.

However, I can't see him saying "crap." "Drat" would be more his style. That's assuming bow-wielder was the one hit with the shuriken and the viewpoint didn't spin 180 degrees in the last panel.

Of our other two candidates, neither Daigo nor Kazumi are archers by preference.

[Selene]

Wow! Thanks, Giant! For the first time ever, I actually kind of like Therkla. Nicely done. :smallsmile:

[brionl]

Has Therkla ever killed any of the good guys? AFAIRecall, onscreen she has only killed the sea-trolls and hornswoggled the orcs on the island. She also managed to skip out on the detect evil. She may not actually be as evil as she thinks she should be to be a Ninja.
She was setting up for a sneak attack on Hinjo during the sea-troll attack, but that was before she knew any better, and hasn't tried anything directly since then. It was pretty easy for Elan to distract her from the mission anyway.

[teratorn]

Therkla, from a purely narrative standpoint fills the same role as Belkar. If Hinjo won't give Therkla a job due to an overdeveloped sense of paladiness, Elan will feel bad a bout it and will promise to put in a good word to Roy for her when he returns. Hiring Therkla into the party allows Belkars role in the story to be filled while allowing Belkar to exit the strip.


Oh well, that should have been a spoiler, but too late for that now. She's probably high level enough to join the order, but she's somewhat more complex than Belkar. She has a backstory, she writes a poetry journal, and puts Elan's welfare above her own, while the belkster only cares about himself and whores.

[factotum]

Yeah and how well has that gone so far with Roy?

Well, firstly, has their failure encouraged Haley and Celia to give up on the idea of resurrecting Roy? Secondly, Elan doesn't know what's happening with the other half of the team, so he's hardly likely to say, "Haley couldn't get Roy resurrected so I have no chance of getting Haley brought back to life..."

[DBear]

This episode is why I tune in to OotS and is on my short list for best episode of the quarter. :smallcool:

[dps]

I'd almost be inclined to suggest the bow-wielding tree is Vaarsuvius. He'd have to be involved (though granted, maybe not present) to cast the illusion spell, and we know he's proficient with a bow even though he refused to stick around to use one at Azure City. Granted, he's never used a normal weapon before, but he's under a bit of stress lately and might be prepared to try new things.

However, I can't see him saying "crap." "Drat" would be more his style. That's assuming bow-wielder was the one hit with the shuriken and the viewpoint didn't spin 180 degrees in the last panel.

Of our other two candidates, neither Daigo nor Kazumi are archers by preference.

Captain Axe, maybe? Though I'd expect him to be carrying, like, his axe, and to not be away from the junk.

I don't think that there's any other named characters on board the junk that haven't already been mentioned.

[Halvormerlinaky]

Great! Just great! A haven't laughed like that since #538
I even registered here, just to say: "Thank you! It is hillarious!"
It seems like Liwen was right:

Of course Durkon has been right earlier than Liwen's prediction. Nevertheless Liwen pointed "tree-thing" out earlier than Elan did.
Also TehGrimmeReaper amased me:

Are you guys forseers or something? Or you've ninja'd The Plot without being noticed?
Or, maybe, The Giant uses some ideas of his fans? However- trees are great, importance of antagonism- perfect! Just love it!

I think it comes down to the fact that those who love the Giant have become attuned to his way of thinking. But since he's such a great author, sometimes we're right, others we're not.

When we are, we get applauded. When we're not, we get flamed.

[Marlowe]

Captain Axe, maybe? Though I'd expect him to be carrying, like, his axe, and to not be away from the junk.

I don't think that there's any other named characters on board the junk that haven't already been mentioned.

Alternative suggestion: looking at the way the bow is drawn, it MIGHT have started out as a Katana blade (Daigo's?), but the Giant decided it came out looking too much like a weird-coloured branch; couldn't make it clearer without cramping the Durkon-bush and changed it to a bow at the last minute.

[David Argall]

However, in D&D, truth *can* be (fairly well) verified, no matter the source...such as via a Zone of Truth.
What magic can reveal, magic can conceal, and Zone of Truth is a mere
2nd level spell, easily defeated by spells Kubota would have available. Note in this respect that since Kubota avoided the battle, he may well have more powerful magic available to him than the court does. [V might change that, but by definition she is an unknown foreigner, and thus his testimony or other assistance is challengable right from the start.]


It's true that this isn't 100% accurate...but given that Truth and Lies are static things in the D&D world, just as Good and Evil are...the legal system is quite a bit different, and there aren't legal loopholes such as this.
There are always legal loopholes. They exist in any finite system by the very fact that 1.5 does not equal 1 or 2. And since the law has to say 1 or
2, the loop hole is quickly created. [Of course, all those law books are cases of 1.5, and of 1.1-9. If the legal system is old enough, there are loopholes of 1.455437794...] The law books are finite in nature, and the number of possible situations is infinite [at least compared to the number the law book can hold]. So loopholes will always exist.


The only reason Kabuto wasn't prosecuted for his previous attempt was because there wasn't anyone involved who was still alive, and actually *knew* the truth for certain.
This is a presumptive reason, but all we know is that the magistrate said there was not enough evidence to arrest him, much less convict. Possibly even their testimony would not have been sufficient.

[banjo1985]

Ah, so somebodies been polymorphing Durkon and the paladins...clever :smallbiggrin:

Nice comic, it's going to be interesting how this Therlka thing works out.

[saral]

It's good when someone plays with the obvious tropes and shocks us. We all should have seen Therkla's switch of sides.

Still Therkla might actually be more trouble for disobeying Kubota than trying to assassinate Hinjo. (Obey your lord in all things) As soon as Elan offered a job with Hinjo though -that would move Therkla up the societal structure, and override loyalty to Kubota.

[Aquillion]

And this is why it is good to have 18 charisma.

[Red XIV]

Further, Kubota clearly has the upper hand here - why switch to the loosing side?
In what way does Kubota have the upper hand? He's been for months attempting to eliminate Hinjo without success. Not to mention the fact that he's a tertiary villain being opposed by PCs, which isn't exactly a great situation to be in.

[arkwei]

B-The king decides what treason is, and just about any attack on his person generally qualifies.

You know, if a foreigner tries to kill the king, it wouldn't be treason; it will be something along the lines of "grave danger to the state". Treason is only when you betray you own country.

[DeepChild]

Nice one Giant! This made me smile. :smallsmile:

[Scarblade]

Maybe Therkla is just "switching sides" in an attempt to get close to Hinjo so she can kill him:smalleek:

Even if she's not doing it to kill Hinjo, Hinjo might not trust her as long as the possibility is there.

[Dacia Brabant]

Well, firstly, has their failure encouraged Haley and Celia to give up on the idea of resurrecting Roy? Secondly, Elan doesn't know what's happening with the other half of the team, so he's hardly likely to say, "Haley couldn't get Roy resurrected so I have no chance of getting Haley brought back to life..."

Yes but the point is that it's easy to say that you can just get someone raised, not so easy to actually get it done, an issue I would think Therkla would raise.

Besides, can't you just see Elan lampshading the "I thought you were dead" trope at some point?

[Draz74]

Please. Quar is within reaching of at least one smitey paladin, and to our knowledge Kubota doesn't have any other minions with a capacity for stealth. He has his House Soldiers, but bringing them to bear would be rather damning.
Um, ninja?
... although, admittedly, Kubota's ninjas might be more loyal to Therkla than they are to Kubota himself.


Oh, and Quar setting Therkla up for a flank? This verifies that Ninjas are actually Rogues rather than the Ninja class, as sudden strike does not benefit from flanking.
I thought the same thing, but now I'm not sure. Every melee attacker benefits a little from flanking, after all.

[Capn Stache]

Another great comic. All I can really say is: Durkon-bush for the win!

[Ganurath]

Um, ninja?
... although, admittedly, Kubota's ninjas might be more loyal to Therkla than they are to Kubota himself.Loyalty to Horus is not de facto loyalty to the Emperor. The ninja are Therkla's ninja, not Kubota's, as clearly stated in her first appearance in 484.

[SoC175]

We know Belkar is doomed to draw his last breath within the year.
Yet there are so many templates which would free Belkar from needing to draw breath while not hampering his ability to adventure

[Lissou]

Yet there are so many templates which would free Belkar from needing to draw breath while not hampering his ability to adventure

Well, we know that he should also savour his next birthday cake, and not bother funding his retirement plan. Sounds like he IS going to die, although I guess you could find 3 separate stuff explaining it. (He's going to be very Rich so won't need a retirement plan, plus all cakes will dissapear from the planet forever, plus he'll become a construct and stop breathing...)
But that's a bit of a stretch.

[SoC175]

Well, we know that he should also savour his next birthday cake, and not bother funding his retirement plan. Sounds like he IS going to die, although I guess you could find 3 separate stuff explaining it. (He's going to be very Rich so won't need a retirement plan, plus all cakes will dissapear from the planet forever, plus he'll become a construct and stop breathing...)
But that's a bit of a stretch.
Or he just becomes undead :smallwink:

[Eric]

Well, we know that he should also savour his next birthday cake,

You think he'll be eating birthday cake? Never mind *enjoying* it.

The Oracle is well dodgy.

And in any case, the laws of narrative causation overrule ANY individual's wishes (unless you're Granny Weatherwax, and even then, you're still winning a story).

[Ganurath]

Or he just becomes undead :smallwink:Belkar, the Death Knight?

[Jigsaw Forte]

Yet there are so many templates which would free Belkar from needing to draw breath while not hampering his ability to adventure

Here's what comes to mind off the bat:


Any variety of undead
Any variety of construct
A special ability (class-skill or otherwise) that removes the need to breathe (I forget exactly WHAT this skill is, but it seems like an Elemental Protection spell of some kind), and since Belkar has no reason to breathe, he does not -- entirely likely (since he easily has the highest body count, and presumably also the highest possible XP) that this is an 'epic' skill available to rangers in this world if it were to happen at all.
Transformation into any other non-breathing creature (Various spirits and Elementals come to mind)
EDIT: One word: Belkarina. (Come on, note how he should savor HIS last birthday cake. How HE's not long for this world. How he'll draw HIS last breath... we've already had one genderflip, why not another? This would also get around that pesky "dying" thing.)

[Aquillion]

The thing is, none of the Oracle's other predictions have been that complicated; in fact, they've all been straightforward, and resulted in exactly what they sounded like they implied.

I suspect there may be a joke at one point where Belkar almost becomes a non-breathing creature, or becomes one temporarily... but if I had to name an important character in the comic who is likely to die, he'd still top the list.

[argil7]

freaking awsome!:smallbiggrin:

[Halvormerlinaky]

As I did stand my watch upon the hill,
I look'd toward Birnam, and anon, methought,
The wood began to move.

Yay for untimely tree rescue! Now go and slay Macb... Kubota. I mean Kubota.

That was my line when we did MacBeth back in college! Yes, I had a very small role.

[David Argall]

Well, we know that he should also savour his next birthday cake, and not bother funding his retirement plan. Sounds like he IS going to die, although I guess you could find 3 separate stuff explaining it. (He's going to be very Rich so won't need a retirement plan, plus all cakes will dissapear from the planet forever, plus he'll become a construct and stop breathing...)
But that's a bit of a stretch.

Add in here that he won't be seeing the Oracle again.

As noted, the Oracle has not been noted for tricky meanings. Inadequately informative, yes, as with Xykon being in his throne room, but still pretty direct and obvious in retrospect at least. So when the obvious meaning is that Belkar has a year left in the story, we should assume Belkar should buy lots of life insurance.

[Kish]

Well, we know that he should also savour his next birthday cake, and not bother funding his retirement plan. Sounds like he IS going to die, although I guess you could find 3 separate stuff explaining it. (He's going to be very Rich so won't need a retirement plan, plus all cakes will dissapear from the planet forever, plus he'll become a construct and stop breathing...)
But that's a bit of a stretch.
Also, you forgot "not long for this world."

Clearly, Belkar is going to turn into an undead elemental golem trapped permanently on another plane with neither birthday cakes nor retirement plans.

Or, y'know...die and not get resurrected.

[Ganurath]

I mentioned it in the Least Favorite Character thread, but I have to bring it up here too...

Previous Comic:
Therkla states that part of the reason for her loyalty to Kubota was that she felt a sense of belonging despite being a half-orc.

Current Comic:
Qarr, debatably the Chessmaster behind Kubota, makes... comments about Therkla's lineage. Despite overhearing her statements in the previous comic. And knowing that the only other reason, his kindness, has been flying out the window of late. Is he trying to turn Therkla against Kubota?!

[Werewindlefr]

Or, y'know...die and not get resurrected.You're trying to use Ockham's razor on OotS. While it is possible that you're right, the reasoning itself is based on the assumption that the simplest is the most probable; which doesn't really aplly to that strange little world.

[Ganurath]

You're trying to use Ockham's razor on OotS. While it is possible that you're right, the reasoning itself is based on the assumption that the simplest is the most probable; which doesn't really aplly to that strange little world.What was the name of the update in which the last breath prophecy was made? The Simplest Solution?

[Jigsaw Forte]

What was the name of the update in which the last breath prophecy was made? The Simplest Solution?

No, it was "#572 -- The Resistance of Memory".

And I don't recall there being anything simple about the idea that the Kobold fulfilled Belkar's last prophecy by NOT fulfilling Belkar's prophecy, to the point of provoking Belkar to kill him.

[elynnia]

I'm going to join the wild guessing about the nature of the disguise, and here is my theory...

That no magic was used, but they just placed cardboard cutouts of trees "in front" of them - it would look fully convincing in the OoTS-verse, just like the Xs in the eyes. =P

[wildwilly]

Great as always

[Red XIV]

I mentioned it in the Least Favorite Character thread, but I have to bring it up here too...

Previous Comic:
Therkla states that part of the reason for her loyalty to Kubota was that she felt a sense of belonging despite being a half-orc.

Current Comic:
Qarr, debatably the Chessmaster behind Kubota, makes... comments about Therkla's lineage. Despite overhearing her statements in the previous comic. And knowing that the only other reason, his kindness, has been flying out the window of late. Is he trying to turn Therkla against Kubota?!
It could be that Qarr simply isn't that bright. Hence him backing somebody fairly insignificant like Kubota instead of one of the more important Evil characters.

[Kish]

I mentioned it in the Least Favorite Character thread, but I have to bring it up here too...

Previous Comic:
Therkla states that part of the reason for her loyalty to Kubota was that she felt a sense of belonging despite being a half-orc.

Current Comic:
Qarr, debatably the Chessmaster behind Kubota, makes... comments about Therkla's lineage. Despite overhearing her statements in the previous comic. And knowing that the only other reason, his kindness, has been flying out the window of late. Is he trying to turn Therkla against Kubota?!
I think it's more a matter of, "No, Qarr is not the Chessmaster behind Kubota. Qarr is Kubota's not necessarily terribly bright and with minimal interest in or knowledge of human emotions impish servant."

Kubota treats Qarr like he's distinctly lower status than Therkla. Imp average intelligence is 10, the same as average human intelligence. Why should Qarr be better at manipulating than any random human ninja in Kubota's service?

[Ganurath]

I think it's more a matter of, "No, Qarr is not the Chessmaster behind Kubota. Qarr is Kubota's not necessarily terribly bright and with minimal interest in or knowledge of human emotions impish servant."

Kubota treats Qarr like he's distinctly lower status than Therkla. Imp average intelligence is 10, the same as average human intelligence. Why should Qarr be better at manipulating than any random human ninja in Kubota's service?484 dictates that there's a mysterious plot that the imp has a hand in planning.

[disorder]

484 dictates that there's a mysterious plot that the imp has a hand in planning.
Yeah, but that was back when Qarr was still the Badass Probable-Aboleth with the Big Red Voice (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html).

Now that we've gotten to know him a little better, his big plans don't seem so impressive. Probably something on the magnitude of, "After you assassinate Hinjo, let's have that poker night we've been talking about."

[AlexanderRM]

Actually, given the length of Roy's absence, the "Roy is not coming back" people have nothing to be ashamed of since he's been gone as long as he was actually alive.

What do you mean by that? Roy died in 443, we're on 583 now. He'd been alive a lot longer than 140 strips.



The Ninja class is in Complete Adventurer.

Would you say that the presence of Ninja in Complete Adventurer completely precludes the possibility of any class in the "core" rulebooks being ninja?
I can't believe I may (may...) have finally found convincing evidence that monks are not ninja. :smallamused:




Well, we know that he should also savour his next birthday cake, and not bother funding his retirement plan. Sounds like he IS going to die, although I guess you could find 3 separate stuff explaining it. (He's going to be very Rich so won't need a retirement plan, plus all cakes will dissapear from the planet forever, plus he'll become a construct and stop breathing...)
But that's a bit of a stretch.

I'm pretty sure practically every template that fits that description would both remove the need (and ability) to eat and also stop you from aging. And "not long for this world" is metaphorical terminology for "not going to live much longer"- how do we know that that was a literal prophesy?

[Jigsaw Forte]

I'm pretty sure practically every template that fits that description would both remove the need (and ability) to eat and also stop you from aging. And "not long for this world" is metaphorical terminology for "not going to live much longer"- how do we know that that was a literal prophesy?

Not every template. I've figured out one that makes total sense AND doesn't require death, lack of aging, or even lack of breathing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/jekkal/belkarina.pngSay Hello to Belkarina.

Yes, a simple genderflip fulfills the prophecy, because while the oracle is very careful not to say he dies -- which is to say, he likely will NOT die -- the Oracle exerts no such care with referring to Belkar using pronouns.

[Ganurath]

Would you say that the presence of Ninja in Complete Adventurer completely precludes the possibility of any class in the "core" rulebooks being ninja?
I can't believe I may (may...) have finally found convincing evidence that monks are not ninja. :smallamused:...Therkla's weapons are Monk weapons: Sai and shuriken. Discuss.

[Morgan Wick]

I wonder if this strip (with an assist from the previous one) proves wrong everyone who claimed that Therkla really was evil. It seems that Therkla was only evil to fit in with Lord Kubota and his group, and now that Elan has suggested she could have a job with Hinjo, she's decided she'd rather prefer working with Elan, even if "just friends", than killing him. That's Neutral at worst. If she were truly Evil, she'd probably only decide to jump ship as a spy or something, and I bet she wouldn't be falling for Elan in the first place.

Interesting to see what happens when Haley comes back and just how "over" Therkla is at getting dumped.

Not only did I not originally catch that the trees were illusions, I actually thought Durkon was hiding in the bushes, not that he was the bushes. With Elan, though, you never can tell if he's just playing dumb for the benefit of Therkla and Qarr, or if he really was ignorant of his friends' plans. (Who's wielding the bow? I didn't read past the second page.)

[brilliantlight]

About Hinjo being LG. If he wants he can have Threlka convicted and then pardon her. He is head of state after all.

[the_tick_rules]

So whose hiding in the woods? I recognized a AC katana and what looked like durkon's shield. Who had the spear, the fish paladin?

[David Argall]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/jekkal/belkarina.pngSay Hello to Belkarina.

Yes, a simple genderflip fulfills the prophecy, because while the oracle is very careful not to say he dies -- which is to say, he likely will NOT die -- the Oracle exerts no such care with referring to Belkar using pronouns.

"your pal is not long for this world." seems to apply to both sexes.

[holywhippet]

Maybe Therkla is just "switching sides" in an attempt to get close to Hinjo so she can kill him:smalleek:

Even if she's not doing it to kill Hinjo, Hinjo might not trust her as long as the possibility is there.

This is a world with spells such as zone of truth, discern lies and geas. There's also the matter of sense motive checks. If Therkla isn't being honest, the paladins will work it out.

[Kaytara]

Delightful strip. ^^ I'm not picky but this one was the best in some time. :D

As for Belkar... The fact that, up to this point, the Oracle's predictions have been blunt and straightforward, is precisely the reason why I'm inclined to believe that whatever happens to Belkar, the halfling will not be completely stricken from the comic.
After all, the Oracle keeps giving dodgy hints as to Belkar's future demise, but "should savour his next birthday cake" and the like are very vague hints. And when the time came to give the official on-the-house prediction, he said Belkar would draw his last breath - ever - by the end of the year. The fact that he didn't outright say "Will die and will never get raised" probably means that it wasn't applicable.

At worst, Belkar will go to the evil afterlife and still figure out some way to influence events/cause trouble in the living world. Roy did say that Belkar is, in his own braindamaged way, too smart to be held by any prison. XD

Besides, Belkar is part of the Order. You don't completely and utterly wipe from existence titular characters like that.

[Corsair]

Who says he dies any time soon? Order of the Stick has a clearly defined beginning and ending, although Rich only knows what either of those are. Belkar might be slain during their final assault on Xykon, at the end of the strip. Or something. Who knows? The idea of Belkar actually surviving through the entire strip seems a little unlikely.

Of course, the Kobold might have just been taunting Belkar. Just because he's a seer doesn't mean that everything he says is a prophecy.

[chiasaur11]

Who says he dies any time soon? Order of the Stick has a clearly defined beginning and ending, although Rich only knows what either of those are. Belkar might be slain during their final assault on Xykon, at the end of the strip. Or something. Who knows? The idea of Belkar actually surviving through the entire strip seems a little unlikely.

Of course, the Kobold might have just been taunting Belkar. Just because he's a seer doesn't mean that everything he says is a prophecy.

The last breath bit was, though, and he doesn't seem the type to lie in his professional position, especially if it'd jepordize his reputation.

The poor saps he gets money from just often don't like the facts as he presents.

[factotum]

The poor saps he gets money from just often don't like the facts as he presents.

And apparently neither do a large number of members of this forum. :smallbiggrin:

[Selene]

Besides, Belkar is part of the Order. You don't completely and utterly wipe from existence titular characters like that.

Sure you do.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnyoneCanDie

Wow, my first TV Tropes link. :smalltongue:

[Random221]

2 guesses:

A wizard turned the hole party into trees and bushes.

Halfbreeds (you know, as minotaurs, kentaurs, halforcs...) How about halftrees and halfbushes? New player races are fond...

Halftree:
+2 strength
+3 vit
+1 int
+ 1 willpower
- 1 end
- 3 accuracy
-5 speed

+2 hit die
25% rezistent to spells aligned to cold and wind, 50% resistent to earth based spells, fire spells do 50% more demage

Halfbush:
+ 1 vit
- 1 end
+ 1 accuracy
- 1 speed

Same resistance as before

Racuial skills (such as hiding in a forest) works 99% Hiding skill in city only at natural maximum). No climbing, no riding skill (imagine a tree riding a horse) Natural swimmers.

[Trizap]

Sure you do.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnyoneCanDie

Wow, my first TV Tropes link. :smalltongue:

add in the Sorting Algorithm of Mortality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SortingAlgorithmOfMortality), Two Mauve Shirts, plus the fact that he is evil, add in the fact that death is cheap in OOTS...............and we have no idea

I leave you all to your epileptic trees

[Terbovus]

Woo! Therkla (aka Super Ninja Girl) comes over to team good! Woooooo! :smallsmile:

Very pleased - things are moving along nicely!

[Terbovus]

Delightful strip. ^^ I'm not picky but this one was the best in some time. :D

As for Belkar... The fact that, up to this point, the Oracle's predictions have been blunt and straightforward, is precisely the reason why I'm inclined to believe that whatever happens to Belkar, the halfling will not be completely stricken from the comic.
After all, the Oracle keeps giving dodgy hints as to Belkar's future demise, but "should savour his next birthday cake" and the like are very vague hints. And when the time came to give the official on-the-house prediction, he said Belkar would draw his last breath - ever - by the end of the year. The fact that he didn't outright say "Will die and will never get raised" probably means that it wasn't applicable.

At worst, Belkar will go to the evil afterlife and still figure out some way to influence events/cause trouble in the living world. Roy did say that Belkar is, in his own braindamaged way, too smart to be held by any prison. XD

Besides, Belkar is part of the Order. You don't completely and utterly wipe from existence titular characters like that.

hehe, I'm with you there. Belkar is too much psychotic fun to kill off completely. My bet is on some kind of undead, or possibly a manky, psychotic flesh golem. :smalleek:

Still - he won't get raised, that would imply his last breath is not his last so to speak. bets on a moral choice for Durkon between raising Roy and Belkar anyone?

[Aquillion]

hehe, I'm with you there. Belkar is too much psychotic fun to kill off completely. My bet is on some kind of undead, or possibly a manky, psychotic flesh golem. :smalleek:

Still - he won't get raised, that would imply his last breath is not his last so to speak. bets on a moral choice for Durkon between raising Roy and Belkar anyone?Choice?

Durkon was perfectly happy to leave Belkar to rot in an Azure City jail. His exact comment was, I believe "Ye got Belkar released? Have ye gone daft??" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html) Notice he still looks glaringly unhappy throughout that entire page, Mark of Justice or no -- Durkon strongly feels Belkar belongs in jail.

He might revive Belkar if there wasn't any choice between him and someone else. I wouldn't count on it, though (he'd feel guilty for every innocent Belkar murdered after that, and quite legitimately so.) He keeps Belkar healed up as long as they're all part of a team because that's his duty and he does his duty even when he disapproves of it (as he does), but he certainly wouldn't consider reviving Belkar over anyone else.

Honestly, what makes you think anyone on the OOTS would raise a finger to revive Belkar? Roy himself basically said he just kept Belkar around to rein him in. Well, if he's dead, he's reined in. Sure, it's sad, but there are many, many innocent people who have died in the story who would deserve to be revived first -- if they have the money for multiple revivals, why not sneak into Azure City and bring back some Paladins? Or track down some of the innocents Belkar murdered and revive them first?

You're attached to Belkar because you like him from outside the story and because the people he murders don't seem "real" to you. Siding with him against Miko aside, though, most of the OOTS, though, have indicated that they don't feel much attachment at all -- Durkon was happy to leave him in jail, Haley took the first excuse to abandon him, and Roy's explanation for keeping him around very literally means having him dead would be a preferable option.

[Kaytara]

Sure you do.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnyoneCanDie

Wow, my first TV Tropes link. :smalltongue:

"A rarer trope used by serious shows to prove that they can retain suspense because any main character can die at any time in the show."

Heheeheee. XD OotS may be drama, and the Cerebus Syndrome has a lot to answer for, but I'm pretty sure it hasn't become serious yet... Anyway, the point of the trope you linked is mainly to keep you on the edge of your seat, wondering who'll die in the next minute of a Darker and Edgier show. Concerning OotS, I think the public's general motivation in clicking the link on a newly uploaded strip isn't finding out who lives and who dies. It's rather seeing the plot resolved, reading hilarious lines, and enjoying the joke of the day.

I'll repeat what I said earlier. It would be a very poor move for Rich to remove Belkar from the comic completely, as he so far did with Miko and some other NPCs. The difference between OotS and a show to which Anyone Can Die is applicable is that in the latter, you expect a semi-Shakespearean high-mortality rate. In a fantasy comedy-parody, you generally... don't. Not for the heroes. It's their adventure, it's their story, and killing off one of the titular characters who've made the comic into what it is would outrage too many fans.

Concerning the current debate, I'm not sure.... I agree that the Order doesn't care much for Belkar, but consider this. They despise him but are unwilling to get his blood on their hands. Besides, he's usually pretty damn useful in a fight (assuming he hadn't started it, of course), and keeping him healed and alive indiscriminately like any other member IS something they owe him for the trouble.

He's still a comrade, in a sick twisted sense of the word, and they've shown to put effort into keeping him alive. Not treating his injuries and letting him die when he gets hurt and, by extension, refusing to raise him if he gets killed isn't really any better than simply slitting his throat in his sleep. The Order is goody enough that they don't want to be responsible for his death, and in a world where returning someone from the dead is just another spell, there isn't much difference between letting him die and letting him stay dead.

Of course, I'm assuming that Belkar actually dies sort of somehow vaguely helping them out. If he dies in a manner that makes it clear he completely brought this on himself, the Order may just decide he completely deserved it.

[SilentNight]

So whose hiding in the woods? I recognized a AC katana and what looked like durkon's shield. Who had the spear, the fish paladin?

Jup jup. That'd be Lien.

[Red XIV]

Belkar will die, that's been established. He'll die within a year. But as the Oracle said, that's an in-comic year, which can be as far from now as the Giant wants it to be. In-universe, the final battle with Xykon (or the Snarl, if it gets loose and the OotS has to re-seal it) could easily take place less than a year from the time of the Oracle's prophecy.

[Aquillion]

Belkar will die, that's been established. He'll die within a year. But as the Oracle said, that's an in-comic year, which can be as far from now as the Giant wants it to be. In-universe, the final battle with Xykon (or the Snarl, if it gets loose and the OotS has to re-seal it) could easily take place less than a year from the time of the Oracle's prophecy.The fact that it was even specified almost certainly implies that it will take more than a year in real-time.

And it's fairly absurd to wait a year for the punchline of a joke about loosely-worded prophecies. Belkar is going to die. Who would actually set something up more than a year in advance for anything less than that?

[AlexanderRM]

The last breath bit was, though, and he doesn't seem the type to lie in his professional position, especially if it'd jepordize his reputation.

You, clearly, were not paying attention to the results of any of the other prophecies he's made. Or to common mythology or anything else. It's true, oracles never lie when making prophesies, however, they are all chatic evil (or maybe lawful evil?) and spend all their waking hours planning what to say to maximize the potential for misinterpretation or to simply make their prophesies completely, totally, and utterly unhelpful. Ever heard that story about the king who was considering invading Persia? It went something like this (simplified):
King: Should I invade Persia?
Oracle: If you attack Persia, a great empire will fall.
King: ...well, that... helped a lot.

This tradition continues with the oracle here: "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" was very helpful, even to those who have no idea what Haley said. "Posthumously", quite informative. With the gates, the oracle could claim that Roy forced an either-or, but he could have said "the one in azure city". Can you imagine what the situation would be like if he had? I was going to say that I didn't think that it would have helped, but then I realized that it's possible it might have stopped the death of Lord Shojo and thus all effects that had on Miko... while Roy might not have liked her personally, having the strongest paladin in the sapphire guard might help retake the city (as a major NPC surpassing the level of a maroon shirt, she would obviously have survived the battle, or at least not die with the rest of the guard or by hobgoblins in the battle.

So, anyway, we have official confirmation that Belkar will never breathe again, ever, after the end of an in-comic year.
And also: I'm not in denial about belkar leaving the comic because I like him, it's because not only is a character that's been with us since strip one of a 584 strip comic dying is rather odd, but also because I am absolutely certain that no prophesy the oracle ever makes will ever actually meet its' default interpretation (unless it was completely useless and nobody could make head or tail of it, in which case it has no default interpretation). I suppose that that's not necessarily an absolute, but as I said above, it's happened with every prophesy that's been fulfilled yet.



...Therkla's weapons are Monk weapons: Sai and shuriken. Discuss.
...that's what she said. That's plus pretty much the only evidence that monks are ninja. There's also the point that there's no similarity between them and RL monks, but I think that may be an effect of having working magic and gods.

[Kish]

You're trying to use Ockham's razor on OotS. While it is possible that you're right, the reasoning itself is based on the assumption that the simplest is the most probable; which doesn't really aplly to that strange little world.
Ock·ham's razor also Oc·cam's razor Audio Help (ŏk'əmz) Pronunciation Key
n. A rule in science and philosophy stating that entities should not be multiplied needlessly. This rule is interpreted to mean that the simplest of two or more competing theories is preferable and that an explanation for unknown phenomena should first be attempted in terms of what is already known. Also called law of parsimony.


[After William of Ockham.]

That's not the case here, however. It's not a matter of two or more competing theories. It's a matter of one theory (Belkar's permanent death) which accounts for everything the Oracle has said on the subject, and other theories (Belkar becomes undead, Belkar becomes a construct, Belkar becomes a diabetic) which account for parts of it. Vampire Belkar would still be in the world, so that doesn't explain "not long for this world."


484 dictates that there's a mysterious plot that the imp has a hand in planning.
In another webcomic I read, WTF Comics, there's a character named Nikisha, who agreed to work for the main villain in exchange for being made faster than any other being. Then she encountered a character, one of the heroes, named Smoke--ostensibly a human monk, but it gradually becomes evident that he's something a great deal stranger than that--who appears to move significantly faster than her. She complained, but her master assured her that she is faster than anyone else--despite the evidence.

This kicked off a lot of speculation, as you might imagine. Recently, another villain showed up, named Shade, who is apparently the same order of being as Smoke. Nikisha was really upset to meet a second person who is somehow--apparently--faster than her. So Shade explained to Nikisha that he's not actually particularly fast, he just makes it look like he is by manipulating time. "Speed isn't your problem. He can't make you any faster." Of course, for both power and kewl effects Nikisha's amazing-but-still-only-speed speed is completely owned by Smoke and Shade's time tricks, but who said life is fair?

After that, I went on the forum and read--posted after that revelation, mind--a rather implausible theory that centered around Smoke being able to be faster than Nikisha because, somehow, Smoke was not a being.

Yes, when we first saw Qarr's speech balloon, the setup made it appear that he was Kubota's mysterious master. Then we got a revelation that the scary red-and-black speech balloon belongs to an impish servant instead of a mysterious master. 484 is not the most recent information on the subject. Qarr's behavior in the latest strips is not inconsistent with anything he's said or done since he's had a name or a face.

What do you mean by that? Roy died in 443, we're on 583 now. He'd been alive a lot longer than 140 strips.

There's also the slight issue that "not coming back"=/="going to take a long time to come back."

"Roy being dead will be a long-running subplot, comparable in length to Haley's speech impediment" wouldn't have even been a controversial statement, I'd imagine. I would certainly have supported it. "This is Roy's final exit" was/is quite a different assertion.

[Red XIV]

Alexander, none of the Oracle's prophesies that have already come true have turned out to mean something other than what they seem. Some have been useless answers (ie answering "Where is Xykon?" with "In his throne room."), but none have had an obvious but incorrect meaning.

Haley asked how her speech could be restored. It wasn't obvious, of course, that his answer of not looking a gift horse in the mouth meant that she should accept Nale-disguised-as-Elan's offer of a date, but there wasn't any other, more obvious but incorrect, meaning for the answer either.

Belkar asked whether he'd cause the death of Miko, Windstriker, Roy, V, or the Oracle. Any one of them dying as a result of Belkar's actions is sufficient to fulfill the prophecy in an utterly straightforward manner. We have one death on the list that unambiguously was caused by Belkar, and only Belkar, and as bonus we get others that can arguably be attributed to him with varying degrees of plausibility. Again, no less obvious but correct meaning being hidden behind a more obvious but incorrect one. The obvious default interpretation was that Belkar would kill at least one of the people on that list, and he did.

Roy's question was, between Girard's Gate and Kragaar's, which would Xykon get within a thousand feet of first. Girard's Gate is his next intended target, so it would seem that his answer was exactly what it seemed. Granted, there wasn't exactly room given in the question for a non-specific answer, but regardless, the default interpretation is that Xykon will go to Girard's Gate before Kragaar's Gate. Xykon shows every intention of doing exactly that, and he has no reason to switch the order of his targets.

That leaves us with Durkon, V, and Elan's answers, none of which have been fulfilled yet or been significantly hinted at being fulfilled soon. All the answers were vague enough for us to not know precisely what will happen (or when, where, and how it will happen), but specific enough that oddball fulfillments are rather unlikely. Thus, Durkon will return to the dwarven lands after he dies, V will gain "complete and total ultimate arcane power" by saying a specific four words to the right person for the wrong reasons, and Elan will have a happy ending, but the rest of the Order have no such guarantee.

Given this clear pattern of the Oracle's answers (they mean what they seem to mean, even if it's not immediately obvious what they seem to mean and they're necessarily helpful), there's no reason to think his prediction(s) of Belkar's death will turn out any different. Belkar will die before the end of the year (in-comic), and will not be raised. Since we don't know when it is in the current year (or even which of the at least two calendars existing in the OotS-verse the Oracle was referring to), and the amount of time that passes from one strip to the next is however long Rich Burlew says, that could easily leave us with Belkar dying at the very end of the comic. Since this comic has already established that PCs can be killed (the main character has been dead for 141 strips and counting, after all), there'd be nothing particularly jarring about having a PC get killed in the final battle.

[AlexanderRM]

Well, actually, I suppose you do have a point there... the gate one seems a bit shaky, though.

[David Argall]

Who would actually set something up more than a year in advance for anything less than that?

I suppose somebody who introduces a belt of sex change in comic 9 and we next see it in 233. Or maybe somebody who mentions an imprisoned pop in 131 and we won't see him before 700 [with a good chance we won't see him before 731]. Or ...

[Kish]

Well, actually, I suppose you do have a point there... the gate one seems a bit shaky, though.
How so? Either Xykon will be within a thousand feet of Girard's Gate before he's within a thousand feet of Kraagor's Gate, or the other way around, or he will never be that close to at least one of them. The first one will make the Oracle's prediction on the subject true, the second one will make the Oracle's prediction false. Mentioning Azure City would have been outside the scope of the question Roy asked in any case.

[Aquillion]

How so? Either Xykon will be within a thousand feet of Girard's Gate before he's within a thousand feet of Kraagor's Gate, or the other way around, or he will never be that close to at least one of them. The first one will make the Oracle's prediction on the subject true, the second one will make the Oracle's prediction false. Mentioning Azure City would have been outside the scope of the question Roy asked in any case.Plus, the oracle even made a clear attempt to warn Roy that his question was badly-worded. (And this despite the fact that he clearly doesn't have very kind feelings for Roy personally.)