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Mushroom Ninja
2008-08-13, 10:34 PM
The sleight of hand skill says that, by making a check opposed by their spot check, you can lift a small item off of someone else. My question is what does that mean? What constitutes as a small item. Can you steal their belt? Their shoes? Their sword?

Jade_Tarem
2008-08-13, 10:35 PM
I think there's a table of "Item sizes" somewhere. My players frequently joke that a successful slight of hand check lets you steal gnomes and anything smaller than one...

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-08-13, 10:35 PM
Well, how much space does a soul take up?

monty
2008-08-13, 10:36 PM
When in doubt, ask the DM. If you are the DM, use your judgement.

JackMage666
2008-08-13, 10:36 PM
I would assume that the human heart would be considered a small item...

Mushroom Ninja
2008-08-13, 10:39 PM
So by small item, is it referring to actual item size or simply indicating that the DM should use his/her judgment?
EDIT: on second thought, I probably shoudl have posted this in the RAW questions thread. Oh well.

tyckspoon
2008-08-13, 10:41 PM
So by small item, is it referring to actual item size or simply indicating that the DM should use his/her judgment?
EDIT: on second thought, I probably shoudl have posted this in the RAW questions thread. Oh well.

Most likely DM's judgement. When referring to rules-relevant size categories the words are usually (always? I've never checked to see..) capitalized.

Chronos
2008-08-13, 11:02 PM
To put things in perspective: That skill used to be called "Pick Pockets". So basically, anything you could picture a real-world pickpocket stealing, you can take via Sleight of Hand. If it's conceivable, but seems like it would be very large, unwieldy, or otherwise difficult, then slap a circumstance penalty onto the check.

monty
2008-08-13, 11:07 PM
Just out of curiosity, what would be the DC to steal your own pants?

Vexxation
2008-08-13, 11:08 PM
Just out of curiosity, what would be the DC to steal your own pants?

You'd have to be pretty moxious to pull that one off...

monty
2008-08-13, 11:09 PM
You'd have to be pretty moxious to pull that one off...

Meh, you only need 17.

Jade_Tarem
2008-08-13, 11:15 PM
Just out of curiosity, what would be the DC to steal your own pants?

You'd have to be pretty moxious to pull that one off...

I see what you did there.

Mushroom Ninja
2008-08-13, 11:15 PM
Alright, lets say you're a 12th level pixie rogue (greater invisibility at will ftw) with Sleight of Hand +29 and Move Silently + Lots. You come across an enemy with their guard down. They've got a bad spot check. What slots can you steal from? At what point would you say they notice their gear is missing?

I know that this is up to DM disgression, but, what would you let the pixie steal?

Vexxation
2008-08-13, 11:17 PM
Meh, you only need 17.

Man, I haven't played that game in forever and a day... ever since I started doing 2-day ascensions and the whole "playing 8 hours a day" thing fatigued me.

Jade_Tarem
2008-08-13, 11:18 PM
Alright, first off, it's discretion. Dis-cre-tion. It's a "cr" sound, not a "gr" one. Normally I'm not a spelling/grammar Nazi but that's about the fifth time I've seen that one today.

And for those bonuses I'd say it's possible to make off with his weapons and external gear, but no armor or clothing.

crazedloon
2008-08-13, 11:25 PM
DC Task
50 Lift a sheathed weapon from another creature and hide it on the character’s person, if the weapon is no more than one size category larger than the character’s own size.
80 Make an adjacent, willing creature or object of the character’s size or smaller “disappear” while in plain view. In fact, the willing creature or object is displaced up to 10 feet away—make a separate Hide check to determine how well the “disappeared” creature or object is hidden.

as you can see dc 50 is what about what yall want to do

Mushroom Ninja
2008-08-13, 11:29 PM
Alright, first off, it's discretion. Dis-cre-tion. It's a "cr" sound, not a "gr" one. Normally I'm not a spelling/grammar Nazi but that's about the fifth time I've seen that one today.


Oops, didn't catch it. Thanks!

Curmudgeon
2008-08-14, 04:22 AM
Use the DC 50 "Lift a sheathed weapon" skill as a benchmark for what you can accomplish with Sleight of Hand. Expect significantly higher numbers, like 75+, for things that must pass in front of the character's eyes while being stolen: necklaces, amulets, and the like. Things with significant weight, like backpacks and Bags of Holding, will have really high DCs to nick without being noticed.

Riffington
2008-08-14, 05:17 AM
Wow, if the DC for that is 50, then apparently I know an epic-level commoner in real life.

prufock
2008-08-14, 09:22 AM
The sleight of hand skill says that, by making a check opposed by their spot check, you can lift a small item off of someone else. My question is what does that mean? What constitutes as a small item. Can you steal their belt? Their shoes? Their sword?

I've always considered a "small item" for sleight of hand to be the size of your hand or smaller. Larger objects are possible, but I apply penalties depending on the size.

Something that is attached to them (belt, shoes, rings, etc) should get hefty penalties (-10 or so). It's a lot easier to snatch a dagger from a sheath than to remove the sheath and all.

Edit: For comparison, it's an epic DC of 50 to lift a weapon up to one size category larger than yourself.

Mushroom Ninja
2008-08-14, 09:40 AM
Shouldn't you get a bonus if you're invisible? It would simplify things. Instead of having to lift the item without its owner feeling it being lifted or seeing you lifting it, you just have to lift it without the owner feeling the lifting.

prufock
2008-08-14, 12:26 PM
Shouldn't you get a bonus if you're invisible? It would simplify things. Instead of having to lift the item without its owner feeling it being lifted or seeing you lifting it, you just have to lift it without the owner feeling the lifting.

I'd let it go, yeah. Probably a +10.

Adumbration
2008-08-14, 12:38 PM
What's the DC for planting objects? I recall seeing in the Planar Handbook an elemental lodestone that weighs about 50 pounds, and in the description it says that it's good for making the enemy caster immobile through sleight of handering a bunch of them into his pockets.

Person_Man
2008-08-14, 12:49 PM
I had a PC who used this all the time. As a house rule I would scale the DC up or down based on the obnoxiousness of what he asked to do. Unless the size was ridiculous or the enemy was physically wearing it in a way that couldn't be lifted off (shirt, pants) I'd never say no, I'd just make the check very hard.

FYI, this can be used in combat as well. Most casters need a material component pouch or holy symbol. If you take it from them, they're screwed, and they might not even notice it until they go to cast. You can even do it as a free action, once you've boosted your Skill check high enough.

NobleSavage
2008-08-14, 12:50 PM
Of note:

When you use this skill under close observation, your skill check is opposed by the observer’s Spot check. The observer’s success doesn’t prevent you from performing the action, just from doing it unnoticed.

Meaning you make a SoH vs the DC to obtain the object/weapon/gnome, and whether or not the person notices is determined by their Spot vs said SoH roll.

Curmudgeon
2008-08-14, 10:14 PM
Meaning you make a SoH vs the DC to obtain the object/weapon/gnome, and whether or not the person notices is determined by their Spot vs said SoH roll.
Right. So being invisible doesn't make the SoH check any easier; it just provides a bonus to not being Spotted when you make the attempt.