Instrumentality. (Some Eva spoilers.)

[Mattarias, King.]

I didn't want to hijack the anime thread, and I guess this makes sense to post here, so.. here goes.

So.

I recently watched and rewatched Evangelion- and more importantly, End of Eva. towards the end of the series and mostly in EoE itself, there's the subject of Human Instrumentality. As a brush-up, this means basically melding everyone's minds together, to create a perfect world where we have no need to hide secrets or feel pain from one another- complete understanding of every human mind in existence.

This, of course, comes with a price- individuality. (..Also, you turn into orange goo. But hey, no need to worry about vitamin C anymore.)

Where do you stand on this subject? Is Instrumentality a good thing, since we would no longer be afraid of pain, and be accepted by all? or is it bad, because individuality is more important than all that stuff?

Personally, I'm not a fan of being Instrumentalized. I like my consciousness where it is, thank you very much. I prefer to have my little hidey-hole in my head just in case. Though I guess I have a bit of a hedgehog's dilemma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog%27s_dilemma) thing going on. But that's a different story. :smalltongue:

Also, yes. I'm a fan of the "Enter" button. How could you tell? :smalltongue:

[Kyeudo]

Instrumentality turned the human race into a race of one. There was only one person left on earth until Shinji decided to undo Instrumentality. Instrumentality effectively destroyed the human race.

The goal of total acceptance is a decent goal, but Instrumentality is not the way to achieve it. It leaves no one behind to apreciate it.

[Kojiro Kakita]

Well technically it does leave some people behind...just not the right people
After All if Shinji and Asuka are the only two left, its a sad day for human kind.

[Mattarias, King.]

Well, I agree with you heartily, Kyeudo, though it seems instrumentality wasn't completely undone. Only he and Asuka were "protected", presumably due to their Evas. (Though I guess that idea's a bit shaky. Eva 02 kinda.. went to pieces, so to speak.)

Everyone was still LCL. -Though for a bit, at least, it seemed they were at least still self-aware. As in each cast member's "case".

Kojiro- Yeah.. If they're really supposed to be the new "Adam and Eve" of the world, well... Yeah.. Sucks to be the world.

[kamikasei]

Well technically it does leave some people behind...just not the right people
After All if Shinji and Asuka are the only two left, its a sad day for human kind.

The way I understand it, everyone was turned to LCL, possibly excepting Shinji. Shinji rejected Instrumentality, and he and Asuka were the first ones to restore themselves. Others would follow.

[Mattarias, King.]

The way I understand it, everyone was turned to LCL, possibly excepting Shinji. Shinji rejected Instrumentality, and he and Asuka were the first ones to restore themselves. Others would follow.

That's also how I understand it. The "Adam and Eve" thing is kinda bogus to me, but due to the vagueness of both endings, it's possibly viable.

[Kojiro Kakita]

Well, since I am a fan of Eva: Rebirth, (doujin but very well made), I support the adam and eve theory.

[Tengu_temp]

The way I understand it, everyone was turned to LCL, possibly excepting Shinji. Shinji rejected Instrumentality, and he and Asuka were the first ones to restore themselves. Others would follow.

That's how I understand it too, and which is probably the most official explanation. And, seeing that Kaji was in the Intrumentality, I wonder will he and other people who died before it happened would emerge too.

Are the new OVAs finished yet? I wonder how does the ending look there.

Anyway, I don't think if you will find a single fan of Instrumentality here. Well, maybe, if someone around has a very weird side to them and decided to hide it until now.

[turkishproverb]

They're not OVA's. They're movies. Official, theatrical releases. Only 1 out so far to my knowledge.

[Mattarias, King.]

I've seen the first rebuild movie, and.. It's just like the first bunch of episodes, except the ocean is full of LCL (or what looks to be LCL) and I think a crucified mass production eva or two- not to mention the large bloodstain on the moon. Unsure about the MPEvas, but it seems those movies are a kind of "restart" of the storyline.. So that may support the not Adam and Eve thing..

But still, yeah, doubted I'd find any fans of instrumentality. Just thought I'd see everyone's stances on it.

[Mx.Silver]

The way I understand it, everyone was turned to LCL, possibly excepting Shinji. Shinji rejected Instrumentality, and he and Asuka were the first ones to restore themselves. Others would follow.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shinji strangle Asuka while she was unconscious? It seemed a bit up in the air about whether she was even alive at the end of the film (probably meant as yet another Take That to the fans).

[kamikasei]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shinji strangle Asuka while she was unconscious? It seemed a bit up in the air about whether she was even alive at the end of the film (probably meant as yet another Take That to the fans).

At the end, we see Shinji wake up on a beach by a sea of LCL. There are crosses dotting the area, which suggests Shinji's been active a while already and has built memorials. He looks over, and Asuka is unconscious near him. He strangles her. She wakes up and reacts... strangely. He stops. She isn't dead at the end.

The implication being that Shinji emerged first, and then Asuka also returns from the LCL. Others may follow. Note that the pattern of her injuries don't really make sense given the last time we see EVA 02.

[Mattarias, King.]

At the end, we see Shinji wake up on a beach by a sea of LCL. There are crosses dotting the area, which suggests Shinji's been active a while already and has built memorials. He looks over, and Asuka is unconscious near him. He strangles her. She wakes up and reacts... strangely. He stops. She isn't dead at the end.

The implication being that Shinji emerged first, and then Asuka also returns from the LCL. Others may follow. Note that the pattern of her injuries don't really make sense given the last time we see EVA 02.

:smallconfused: Really? They make sense, in my opinion. Eva 02 was dead with Asuka inside it before it was ripped into a million horrible pieces (seriously, I think that's the most horrible death I've ever seen in an anime..) -alternatively, that may just be how she remembered herself, when she emerged from the LCL.

(I guess I should change this to "Eva discussion with some instrumentality talk", or sommin'. Heh..)

[turkishproverb]

I've seen the first rebuild movie, and.. It's just like the first bunch of episodes, except the ocean is full of LCL (or what looks to be LCL) and I think a crucified mass production eva or two- not to mention the large bloodstain on the moon. Unsure about the MPEvas, but it seems those movies are a kind of "restart" of the storyline.. So that may support the not Adam and Eve thing..

But still, yeah, doubted I'd find any fans of instrumentality. Just thought I'd see everyone's stances on it.

It's kind've like a nihilistic version of traditional Buddhist cosmetology, wherein all being is interchangeable and incarnation exists without the presence of an immutable immortal soul.

[kamikasei]

:smallconfused: Really? They make sense, in my opinion. Eva 02 was dead with Asuka inside it before it was ripped into a million horrible pieces (seriously, I think that's the most horrible death I've ever seen in an anime..) -alternatively, that may just be how she remembered herself, when she emerged from the LCL.

It's a while since I saw the movie. I may be misremembering, but I didn't think the way she was bandaged up matched the way her arm was apparently bisected, not to mention whatever other damage she took. Of course, you have the problem of whether she was actually physically injured inside Eva 02, or just felt (and hallucinated) the pain of its damage, possibly killing her via synch.