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Icewalker
2008-08-14, 08:21 AM
What does mounted combat usually do for someone? In terms of the numbers. I'm thinking specifically here of wolf-riders. Pretty low level. No special bond between rider and mount.

I know it'll do some things with advantages to charging.

bosssmiley
2008-08-14, 08:51 AM
Mounted combat in general is largely a function of the ride skill IIRC. There are a couple of feats that modify it though...

IIRC our very own Justin Bacon (http://www.thealexandrian.net/) released an ebook exploring and extending mounted combat in D&D beyond the scope of the core rules. Ah, here we go (http://www.thealexandrian.net/dreammachine/roleplaying/rule-supplements.html).

Signmaker
2008-08-14, 09:21 AM
What does mounted combat usually do for someone? In terms of the numbers. I'm thinking specifically here of wolf-riders. Pretty low level. No special bond between rider and mount.

I know it'll do some things with advantages to charging.

Well, there's the +1 to attack rolls...
The lancer build..
And the fact that by using Mounted Combat (the feat), you essentially roll your mount's AC 1/round.

Quite nifty, if you think about it. Also, if you're using a wolf, don't forget the trip opportunities. An enemy that gets smacked twice before he gets up hurts more than an enemy that only gets smacked once.

Chronos
2008-08-14, 04:13 PM
Both in real life and in the game, the biggest advantage to being mounted is that you're more mobile. A mount's speed is almost always greater than your own, else, why would you be riding it? So you get the advantage of the mount's speed.

Sometimes, you also have the situation where the mount is a significantly more formidable combatant than the rider, and the rider is mostly just coming along to direct the mount. This is the situation with things like war elephants. Even for something like a horse, the horse may not be as good a combatant as the rider, but it's still an extra combatant, which is worth at least some benefit. So, for instance, instead of a couple of sword blows, you get a couple of sword blows and a couple of hoof blows.

Deepblue706
2008-08-14, 04:23 PM
As a free action, a rider can make a check (DC 15) to make any war-trained mount to attack. So, if the wolves are specially trained, wolf-riders can actually be really tough to fight.

The Ride-By Attack feat is nifty - keep moving after your charge. So, with this, riders can make use of hit-and-run tactics. Lances do double damage on a mounted charge, three times when using Spirited Charge.

Deadly.

Mounted Archers can also be deadly, if they invest enough feats. You can make a full attack with ranged weaponry a mount even if your mount makes a full move. Hell, even when running (although, with significant penalties - the Mounted Archery feat halves them).

If it's "pretty low level", the riders, I doubt, have more than 3-4 feats. If they have 4, then they can grab Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery. Since they're archers, their DEX will be high - as will their ride skill. So, while they may lack STR (and perhaps just do somewhere about d6 damage on a melee attack), they may compensate by having wolves trip with a bite attack as they move in.

In fact, if you have them spread out, with some tripping casters while archers go for the melee guys, this could be a very difficult encounter for the PCs. What exact levels are you dealing with, here?

Treguard
2008-08-14, 04:27 PM
Just for the record, the double/triple lance damage- does it include damage modifiers, like strength & PA?

AstralFire
2008-08-14, 04:29 PM
Just for the record, the double/triple lance damage- does it include damage modifiers, like strength & PA?

Should multiple any straight numerical bonuses, but not dice.

Treguard
2008-08-14, 04:41 PM
Cool, that makes +4 damage per point of BAB with 2-handed PA and spirited charge? Man, I've been downplaying the damage from things like spirited charge and leap attack all this time. :smalltongue:

Tsotha-lanti
2008-08-14, 05:38 PM
Cool, that makes +4 damage per point of BAB with 2-handed PA and spirited charge?

+6 if you're using a lance two-handed. (Go figure how that works. Rules don't make sense.)

This is why Cavaliers are among the deadliest characters, in theory.

Treguard
2008-08-14, 06:14 PM
+6? Power attack damage is doubled from going two handed and then tripled thanks to spirited charge: (2+3)-1 = +4 damage, right? Although given how late it is here I may well have missed something.

Oh Power Attack rules, how you contine to elude me.

Frosty
2008-08-14, 06:16 PM
The tripling damage from Spirited charge is separate from that of Power attack, so the stacking rules reset or something.

It's 2:1 for two-handed PA and then multiplied by 3 which is 6:1

Treguard
2008-08-14, 06:30 PM
Hmmm, after reading spirited charge again I think I get it now; it's not specifically targetting the PA damage, just tripling the rather non-descript "damage from a lance".

Okay, Treguard sleep now *bangs head on desk*

Signmaker
2008-08-14, 07:50 PM
Thought spirited charge was like this:

(BaseDie + Str + PA)x3

Frosty
2008-08-14, 08:01 PM
That sounds right.

Deepblue706
2008-08-14, 08:59 PM
Thought spirited charge was like this:

(BaseDie + Str + PA)x3

I believe that is correct.

MammonAzrael
2008-08-14, 09:26 PM
So, just to clarify, the only damage that wouldn't be tripled would be extra damage dice such as Sneak Attack, Weapon enchantments, etc?

Meat Shield
2008-08-14, 10:43 PM
So, just to clarify, the only damage that wouldn't be tripled would be extra damage dice such as Sneak Attack, Weapon enchantments, etc?

You are correct except that a +1 lance would have the '+1' tripled. A +1 flaming lance would have the '+1' tripled but not the 'flaming' part.

Icewalker
2008-08-15, 06:32 AM
Get outa the thread, Meat Shield :smalltongue:

The party is 5th level. Facing 3 wolf-riders of undetermined level, and at the same time 3 large enemies that'll be slow and sturdy. So presumably the riders will be weaving in and out making attacks whenever there is an opening, but trying to stay on the sidelines.

Charges give double damage for lances. Other than that, combat on a mount involves moving up, making a ride check to make it attack, then both the mount's and the rider's attacks?

Signmaker
2008-08-15, 10:20 AM
Get outa the thread, Meat Shield :smalltongue:

The party is 5th level. Facing 3 wolf-riders of undetermined level, and at the same time 3 large enemies that'll be slow and sturdy. So presumably the riders will be weaving in and out making attacks whenever there is an opening, but trying to stay on the sidelines.

Charges give double damage for lances. Other than that, combat on a mount involves moving up, making a ride check to make it attack, then both the mount's and the rider's attacks?

Might I suggest one lancer and two archers that circle around the party? Fast arrows of poking contrast nicely with slow tanks.

And yes, I believe you are correct.