1st level character challenge

[Bayar]

I am looking for someone who can come up with a 1st level character that can finish a dungeoncrawl by himself. and when I say himself, I mean he and his animal companion/familiar/mount. Not allowed to have more than one of those.


The rules:

Characters have to be level 1.
You can use anything from any 3.5 book as long as it is not banned.
Races cannot have LA. (excepton: Hobgoblins are considered as having LA 0)
No Pun-Pun.
You are not allowed to add any templates except dragonborn.
You are limited to 2 traits and 2 flaws.
Maximum starting gold for your character.
Venerable Dragonwrought Kobolds cannot take epic levels.
Point buy 32.


Banned materials:
Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness
Monster Manual 2
Savage Species
Dragon/Dungeon magasines
Third-party suplements

Other banned stuff:
Merchantile background
Candle of Invocation
Leadership
Celerity
Power word: Pain
Thought bottle
Shiverring touch
Muckdweller
Amber amulet of vermin
Taint


So...what are you waiting for ? Start linking !

[Jack_Simth]

Depends on the dungeon, and the rules it plays by. Also depends on what you consider "completing" a dungeon crawl.

For instance, if the monsters don't leave their rooms to find out what the loud noises are (take a look at the listen DC on fighting, some time), and the player can rest whenever, a Druid-1 can have a reasonable chance of taking on a first level dungeon (summon nature's ally suicide runners to locate traps, buffed up Riding dog to handle monsters, leather barding on the animal companion, druid with a tower shield on the Riding Dog's back Sharing Cure spells while using the Tower Shield for Total Cover). The Druid will need to rest up after essentially every battle, but it could be done.

[Bayar]

Completing: getting to the end of the dungeon alive.

The monsters will not be stupid. And resting can be attempted safely for so long. You know...those random encounter tables are there to be rolled upon. So resting after every battle will become increasingly dangerous.

The module will be determined after I get some candidates.

[Dr Bwaa]

Ooh, so you're actually planning to play this? I'll try to come up with something.

[Eldariel]

The limitation should probably be Epic Feats. Other than that, uh, Crusader 1? That's pretty much as tough as you'll get for the first level. High Con, Dex and Str - if possible, pick up something that improves your Reach (either Aberrant Blood - Inhuman Reach or Willing Deformity - Deformity: Tall = 5' extension) and use a Reach-weapon with Combat Reflexes. Pick up Stone Power and you'll have 17+Con base HP effectively along with Martial Stance and a Healing Strike. Orc would be a solid choice for a race; possibly Dragonborn Orc if you fear you'll need to roam in daylight.

Dragonborn Orc would also buy you the Mind-aspect and thus immunity to Sleep and Paralysis, along with Low-Light Vision, Darkvision and bonuses to Spot/Listen/Search. The Dex-penalty would be troublesome, but you can save in Str and Con thanks to the racial bonuses so 16 Dex should be achievable. The mental stats shouldn't need to be that high outside Wis for Spot/Listens. Int and Cha at 8-10 would be plenty. Then you just use a Guisarme or a similar reach weapon that enables trip combined with Armor Spikes and profit (Int 13 would be beneficial for future Improved Trip though; for now, the straight Str-check sufficides). Just get Cha 8 and one rank in UMD to eventually succeed in Wand activation (if only you could get a Wand of Lesser Vigor to fix yourself up when need be). Something like Breastplate+Dex for 18 AC along with the Shield and you should be able to deal with almost all combat encounters of the level.

Having +1 BAB also helps with the whole weapon switching routine. Traps would be very difficult to deal with though.

EDIT: Oh yeah, this thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=750056) may have data you're interested in.

[Emperor Tippy]

An Elan Psion could probably make a good showing.

Feats: Enhanced Elan Resilience, Psionic Talent, Psionic Talent, Psionic Talent.

Powers: Inertial Armor, Mind Thrust, Crystal Shard (maybe something else)

Str: 8
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 18
Wis: 12
Cha: 6

PP: 15
HP: 6

That guy can survive most anything (he can trade PP to reduce damage on an attack at a 1:4 ratio and can spend 1 PP to get a +4 to saves for a round).

[CASTLEMIKE]

Off the top of my head something like a Gestalt Barbarian or Warblade // Cloistered Cleric -1. Good hitpoints, armor, skills, plus some magical healing before factoring in racial factors.

[MeklorIlavator]

Is evasion a valid tactic? I mean, if the monsters don't know that I've gone through, would that count as a victory? If so, a Whisper gnome could do very well. Not counting Dexterity, your hide is +12 and your Move silently is +8. With a Dexterity of 16 and a master work tool for the MS(padded shoes), it ends up at Hide +15 and MS +13(+1 each if Dex is 18). Not too shabby, by any means. Plus, the spell-like abilities are pretty good at first level. Build would proabably end up something similar to this:
Whisper Gnome
Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 6

HP:8
Skills: Hide +16, MS 14, Search +6, Spot +6, Listen +6, Disable Device +6, Tumble +8, Open Lock +8(a bit repetitive), Climb +6, and Sleight of Hand +8.

Weapon:Longsword Attack: +2 Damage: 1d6+2(+3 if wielding 2-handed)

This guy could get past pretty much anything that you'd find at first level, and endurance isn't really a big issue for rogues. Not to sure about the feat to take, possibly darkstalker(in case something has scent).

[Sstoopidtallkid]

A Desert Kobold Warlock. Start each battle with Summon Swarm, Use your massive Dex and AC to avoid being hit till the Bats/Rats/Spiders kill the enemy. Blow up anything suspicious with Elderitch Blast, and use the swarm to replace a Rogue.

A Strongheart Halfling Factotum, with FoI 4 times for 13 inspiration at first level. Max ranks in search and disable device, go nova each battle.

There's others, Like Druid 1 with a Riding Dog, but those are my picks, and perfectly playable from 1-20.

[FMArthur]

Does the character level-up through the dungeon, or is he/she fixed at first level for the entire challenge?

[F.L.]

Is the sell-your-spellbook + pile o' dogs tactic available?

[Hal]

I'm tempted to say Duskblade with Arcane Disciple in the Healing domain. Select a race to maximize efficiency.

You have spells to throw around (both crowd control and damage output). You have healing. You have several cantrips as SLAs.

The place you lack is in dealing with traps. However, that's the kind of thing that could just end up to chance. I don't know what kind of dungeon this is, but how nasty could the traps be on a dungeon designed for a level 1 character? We're not talking Tome of Horrors here.

[Cainen]

You assume combat is part of this, don't you? Especially at first level, it's a matter of luck, and you WILL NOT make something consistent enough to beat this kind of dungeon head-on without serious cheese.

I'd imagine a stealth specialist with player skill focused in crafting traps would have the easiest time, as he'd have a fallback plan if his check failed.

And, well, think of it this way - the average way to 'challenge' someone in D&D is not assigning their successes in a specific way, it's rolling against a 40-65% chance at early levels. You can't predict how the dice are going to treat you, and a single thing going wrong WILL kill you if you don't have considerable distance and thorough plans ready.

It just so happens that most classes aren't able to do this.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Why I said a Kobold Warlock. Swarm hits for 1d6 no matter what, kobold gives you +3 AC, and Dex can be boosted as high as needed. Yeah, it's not guarenteed, but nothing is. Figure on levelling at the end of the dungeon, so that's no help. Yeah, anything might be screwed, but a Warlock is less so, as is a Kobold.

[Emperor Tippy]

And my Elan Psion can take 66 points of damage before he hits 0 (although it will take all his PP).

If you figure 4 fights before resting then he can spend 3 PP per fight with 1 left over.

And that would be 4 overpowering challenges per day. If you drop it down to 2 challenges per day it becomes a lot easier.

Perhaps drop Inertial Armor for Entangling Ectoplasm and pick u pa cross bow.

[Dresil]

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=16657

Here you go. If you want to use him/me as a test I'd be more than willing.

[Chronos]

This guy [whisper gnome] could get past pretty much anything that you'd find at first level, and endurance isn't really a big issue for rogues. Not to sure about the feat to take, possibly darkstalker(in case something has scent).Remember, you can take two flaws, too. So you might also want to throw in Shape Soulmeld (Theft Gloves) and/or Nimble Fingers, too, in case this dungeon has any traps or locks in it you need to get past.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Rogue, he shouldn't have any problem with locks or traps. I would have proposed Whisper Gnome myself, as they're about the best LA 0 race out there, but he beat me to it. Factotem may work better than rogue, or scout, but I view the 3 of them as fairly equal in their role. (It's only in other people's role that the Factotem excels)

[Eldariel]

Hmm, another thread for those interested:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1444.0

Few good ones yet left unmentioned are the DFA and the Binder. Dread Necro would probably be THE best though, since as long as you can get going, you can create a veritable army of undead to run into things and fight for you, getting more UD on the way. Tomb-Tainted Soul and you'll have infinite healing to boot. Whisper Gnome and you'll be very hard to detect, and Darkstalker to avoid those pesky Scent-creatures. Then just slay few guys, animate, profit.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Male Half-Orc Psychic Warrior 1
Flaws: Shaky and Vulnerable
Feats: Up The Walls, Psionic Talent x3.
Str 18, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 6
Powers Known: Expansion
Powerpoint Reserve: 10

Gear:
Chain Shirt, Heavy Wooden Shield, Battleaxe, Sling, 40 bullets, and 82 gp 6 sp remaining for misc. gear

The character is 6'10" and weighs 438 pounds. He is carrying 63 pounds of gear and coins, for a combined weight of over 500 pounds.

Combat: Manifest Expansion (standard action), use Up the Walls to move 10' up a wall and jump down onto up to four opponents (move action). Weighing over two tons after Expansion and having fallen at least ten feet, opponents he lands on will take 20d6 damage as per falling object rules (DMG p303), and since he jumps down he treats the fall as ten feet less and takes no damage himself. There is no attack roll needed, and no saving throw is allowed to mitigate or avoid this damage.

[DMfromTheAbyss]

just 1 quick question... Why no Muckdweller?
Just curious why this made the list.

[Chronos]

Rogue, he shouldn't have any problem with locks or traps.Except that at first level, you're still very much at the mercy of the dice. You really don't want to roll low and accidentally set off a trap while you're trying to disarm it.

Factotem may work better than rogue, or scout, but I view the 3 of them as fairly equal in their role. (It's only in other people's role that the Factotem excels)Starting at 3rd level (when Brains over Brawn kicks in), Factotum is a better skill monkey than Rogue, and adding your level to each skill check once per day can be a lifesaver as well. But at first level, I don't think it really makes much difference yet: All of the skillmonkeys are about on a par at that point.

[Talic]

Beguiler. Trapfinding, charming minions to use against one another. If any class is more self sufficient, I don't know what it is. Only downside is margin for error. Low life = ouch.

[ghost_warlock]

And my Elan Psion can take 66 points of damage before he hits 0 (although it will take all his PP).

If you figure 4 fights before resting then he can spend 3 PP per fight with 1 left over.

And that would be 4 overpowering challenges per day. If you drop it down to 2 challenges per day it becomes a lot easier.

Perhaps drop Inertial Armor for Entangling Ectoplasm and pick u pa cross bow.

Funny, when I read the OP, my first thought was elan psion, too. :smallsmile:

I'd probably go Inertial Armor, Demoralize, and Vigor for my powers. Using a crossbow would probably be a good way to go.

[Talic]

And my Elan Psion can take 66 points of damage before he hits 0 (although it will take all his PP).

If you figure 4 fights before resting then he can spend 3 PP per fight with 1 left over.

And that would be 4 overpowering challenges per day. If you drop it down to 2 challenges per day it becomes a lot easier.

Perhaps drop Inertial Armor for Entangling Ectoplasm and pick u pa cross bow.

Psion, Elan.

16 Int.
14 Con
14 Str
14 Dex
8 int
6 cha

2 PP - Race
2 PP - Class
1 PP - Attribute

1st Feat) Psionic Talent +2 PP
2nd Feat) Psionic Talent +3 PP
3rd Feat) Body Fuel
4th Feat) Enhanced Elan Resilience

Ok, 10 pp base.

Each PP can soak 4 damage (enhanced elan feat). As a standard action, you can burn ability scores for extra pp (1 str, 1 dex, 1 con = 2 pp).

So we can soak 40 base.

Now, we can exchange, throughout the day, for 2 pp, and recover ability burn, for 44 hp max, + 5hp (after burn). That's 49 in day to day.

What about a bad day, where you've gotta give it everything you've got?

13 burn = 26 pp. + 10 pp base = 36 pp. 36*4=144 hp (as your hp will be at 1 at the end, you only have 1 to spare)

[Adumbration]

I might do a Dragonborn Fire Hobgoblin, with perhaps either Dragonfire Adept or Dragon Shaman. A wizard or a duskblade wouldn't be bad either. +4 Con, +2 Int, -2 Cha, +0 LA.

Are you looking for just builds, or will we be able to actually play?

[Bayar]

I am looking for you to make a build and test them in a game EACH. yeah, it will be a massive job, but someone has to win, right ?

Answers:


Off the top of my head something like a Gestalt Barbarian or Warblade // Cloistered Cleric -1. Good hitpoints, armor, skills, plus some magical healing before factoring in racial factors.

A +0 LA Planetouched like a Dark creature from Tome of Magic could be interesting.

No gestalt. It is having 2 classes. And no Dark creatures since it is a template. If it is not a template, it should be considered one.



Is evasion a valid tactic? I mean, if the monsters don't know that I've gone through, would that count as a victory?


Yes it does, but if you fail your listen/MS check...the monsters you just passed might get pissed and decide to join in the fight...with the ones that saw/heard you.



Does the character level-up through the dungeon, or is he/she fixed at first level for the entire challenge?

No. It is a level 1 chalenge.


Is the sell-your-spellbook + pile o' dogs tactic available?
NO.



The place you lack is in dealing with traps. However, that's the kind of thing that could just end up to chance. I don't know what kind of dungeon this is, but how nasty could the traps be on a dungeon designed for a level 1 character? We're not talking Tome of Horrors here.

I will roll a dungeon. It wont be ToH, but yeah, there will be traps.


http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=16657

Here you go. If you want to use him/me as a test I'd be more than willing.

As I said, no gestalt. But yeah, you will be testing the character.




The character is 6'10" and weighs 438 pounds. He is carrying 63 pounds of gear and coins, for a combined weight of over 500 pounds.


As crazy as it may sound, i will allow this as long as you can GET to 500 pounds. The maximum weight for a half orc is 172. I dunno how you got to 438...



just 1 quick question... Why no Muckdweller?
Just curious why this made the list.

Because they have insane racial modifiers. I mean, Kobolds need to take a feat abd become venerable for insane racial modifiers...


I might do a Dragonborn Fire Hobgoblin, with perhaps either Dragonfire Adept or Dragon Shaman. A wizard or a duskblade wouldn't be bad either. +4 Con, +2 Int, -2 Cha, +0 LA.

Are you looking for just builds, or will we be able to actually play?

Precisely why I allowed Hobgoblins to be LA 0. And yes, you will play these abominations.

[Emperor Tippy]

No love for the Elans?

How many fights will we face between rest periods? Seeing as a CR 1 is an overpowering challenge for 1 ECL 1 character. And you're only supposed to face 1 of those per day. And you are supposed to level after 3-4 of them.

[Talic]

I believe he's going for a bit more "hardcore". I.E. allowances will be made for progressing more slowly, but the character will be expected to deal with challenges appropriate for an entire party.

[Adumbration]

This should be fun... Considering what class to take at the moment.

EDIT: I shall make a Dragonborn Water Orc Orc Crusader. Who binds Savnok to get a +1 Fullplate and damage reduction 2/piercing. Sure, it takes up all the feats, but it's totally worth it. :smallbiggrin:

I would rather have used a warblade or a swordsage, but coincidentally they are not proficient with heavy armor.

I may have to use this in the Arena as well...

Here he is, almost done:
http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=16664

I'm mostly afraid of the traps, especially pits. Enemies shouldn't be much of a problem, and he can bash through the locked doors, but if he falls in a pit, he might be in trouble.

I need to buy some rope.

[Shades of Gray]

Is the tactical war pigeon maneuver allowed?:smallbiggrin:

[CASTLEMIKE]

Tome of Magic has the Bind Vestige feat for a Non-Binder PC to Call Savnok's Armor Masterwork Full PLate (something normally out of the range of a typical first level character) so a Dwarf PC Cleric or Fighter type could be interesting. Some of the other Vestige benefits are more situational.

PGtF has the +0 LA Planetouched variant for first level PCx is that an option?

[Dresil]

Scrapping my concept cause I didn't know gestalt was a no no. Making new characer as we type and should be up within two hours.

[Adumbration]

Tome of Magic has the Bind Vestige feat for a Non-Binder PC to Call Savnok's Armor Masterwork Full PLate (something normally out of the range of a typical first level character) so a Dwarf PC Cleric or Fighter type could be interesting. Some of the other Vestige benefits are more situational.

PGtF has the +0 LA Planetouched variant for first level PCx is that an option?

This should be fun... Considering what class to take at the moment.

EDIT: I shall make a Dragonborn Water Orc Orc Crusader. Who binds Savnok to get a +1 Fullplate and damage reduction 2/piercing. Sure, it takes up all the feats, but it's totally worth it. :smallbiggrin:

I would rather have used a warblade or a swordsage, but coincidentally they are not proficient with heavy armor.

I may have to use this in the Arena as well...

Here he is, almost done:
http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=16664

I'm mostly afraid of the traps, especially pits. Enemies shouldn't be much of a problem, and he can bash through the locked doors, but if he falls in a pit, he might be in trouble.

I need to buy some rope.

:smallwink:

Seriously, I was stunned when I first saw the feat. You practically almost become a fifth level binder with it. There's also another vestige that's very useful - I can't remember the name, but it gives you a number of skills to be used as untrained. I think you could even choose such as Open Lock and Disable Device.

[Bayar]

This should be fun... Considering what class to take at the moment.

EDIT: I shall make a Dragonborn Water Orc Orc Crusader. Who binds Savnok to get a +1 Fullplate and damage reduction 2/piercing. Sure, it takes up all the feats, but it's totally worth it. :smallbiggrin:

Here he is, almost done:
http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=16664


Oh wow...good thing I didnt ban the ToB/ToM...or else you guys would have had a lot less cheese to abuse. At least you still have to beat that DC so that your actions wont be messed up...and you have to steal something...


PGtF has the +0 LA Planetouched variant for first level PCx is that an option?

Yes it is, but you lose your granted power and your weapon proficiency IIRC.

[CASTLEMIKE]

:smallwink:

Seriously, I was stunned when I first saw the feat. You practically almost become a fifth level binder with it. There's also another vestige that's very useful - I can't remember the name, but it gives you a number of skills to be used as untrained. I think you could even choose such as Open Lock and Disable Device.

Naberius skill's I believe.


Oh wow...good thing I didnt ban the ToB/ToM...or else you guys would have had a lot less cheese to abuse. At least you still have to beat that DC so that your actions wont be messed up...and you have to steal something...

I had wondered about that noticing the Mercantile Background feat was banned. Complete Champion has similar things to the feat (Knight's Squire), Harper's, Church Orphan for backgrounds so they didn't even cost a feat :smallcool:.............

[Dresil]

Done. Again.

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=16674

Meet DOC.

[Siegel]

What is mercantile background ?

[Adumbration]

Oh wow...good thing I didnt ban the ToB/ToM...or else you guys would have had a lot less cheese to abuse. At least you still have to beat that DC so that your actions wont be messed up...and you have to steal something...


Wellll... He has to have stolen something. In the past. He stole a cookie, and he never had any regrets, nor did he apologize or make any reparations.. He was about nine at the time... :smallwink:

The ironic thing is that once he uses the call armor ability, he can't get rid of it, unless he wants to invoke the penalties. By the way, are you allowing a binder to have a spirit already bound at the beginning? It would make little sense for a him to go into a dungeon without preparing for it, and the duration of the pact is 24 hours I think.

[CASTLEMIKE]

What is mercantile background ?

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Mercantile_Background_(FR),PG

Pretty good feat if taken by a single PC it increases party wealth by 150% for items of little use to the party for their market price converted to GP.

Instead of selling 100,000 GP of treasure for 50,000 GP you get 75,000 GP.

Instead of paying 100,000 GP for a item at standard market prices you purchase it for 75,000 GP. (Limit on items that can be purchased 1/month)

Factor extra wealth and a little time with taking advantage of the price discount on a major magical item.

[Chronos]

Seriously, I was stunned when I first saw the feat. You practically almost become a fifth level binder with it.First of all, the Bind Vestige feat only gets you first-level vestiges, so it's more like a first-level binder. You need Improved Bind Vestige as well to be treated as a fifth-level binder (which is necessary to get Savnok). Second, you only get one of the vestige's powers, and you can't even choose which one. You need yet another feat, Practiced Binding, to get a second power, and again, you can't choose which one (what you get is laid out on a table). Third, a real binder could take the Improved Binding feat (not to be confused with Improved Bind Vestige), which lets you count as two levels higher for determining what vestiges you can bind, so it only takes a 3rd-level binder to bind 3rd-level vestiges. And fourth, of course, the binder class has a few other incidental class features other than binding.

On the other hand, though, if you do take Bind Vestige and Improved Bind Vestige as a first-level character, you get +1 plate mail from Savnok, not just masterwork. But you're still spending two feats to get it, and armor class isn't everything.

[CASTLEMIKE]

On the other hand, though, if you do take Bind Vestige and Improved Bind Vestige as a first-level character, you get +1 plate mail from Savnok, not just masterwork. But you're still spending two feats to get it, and armor class isn't everything.

My mistake I forgot Savnok required the second feat.

[Adumbration]

I only mentioned the single feat because that +1 Full Plate is awfully expensive at the cost of a second feat at first level.

A Fighter type could spend his armor budget on buying things like healing potions with his starting wealth instead of armor for the dungeon crawl. A Dwarf Cleric could purchase extra scrolls.

You also have to take into account that a +1 full plate armor costs 2 650, which you could never afford at first level. You also can't underestimate the versatility the feat chain grants.

[Chronos]

I only mentioned the single feat because that +1 Full Plate is awfully expensive at the cost of a second feat at first level. But the single feat doesn't get you Savnok at all. He's a second-level vestige, so not available to an effectively first-level binder.

[CASTLEMIKE]

My mistake you are correct.

[Eldariel]

A Crusader with Apprentice: Search&Open Locks could be awesome. On level 1, you don't really need Trapfinding since all the DCs are under 20 anyways. If only that didn't cost the Reach+Reflexes combo.

[Regord_Silentflame]

Genn Dirth (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=76151), Martial Apprentice Rogue

Combat:

Sneaks about unnoticed. When he finds enemies, if one opponent is obviously stronger (or only one opponent), if they're a distance away, he ambushes with his one maneuver, having his stance already active, dealing 3d6+6 points of damage, hopefully taking them down. Then proceeds to take the others down one at a time, at range if there are too many, but if only a few, he'll risk it.

[Eldariel]

You do know that level 1 characters have an Adept-level of ½, right? Therefore, they're not eligible to pick up level 1 maneuvers or stances; otherwise probably the easiest way would be to take Ranger 1 with a bunch of ACFs in Trap Expert, Favored Enemy: Arcanists, Spiritual Connection and Martial Study: Crusader's Strike + Martial Stance: Martial Spirit + Combat Reflexes. That would have all the things covered. As it stands though... But now that I think about it, is there a means for Ranger to gain self-healing? It could be the best class as it has all the martial abilities you need level 1 (BAB +1 to draw weapons as a part of a move action, decent HD, Martial Weapon Proficiency), Trapfinding, high skills and all that.

[Regord_Silentflame]

You do know that level 1 characters have an Adept-level of ½, right? Therefore, they're not eligible to pick up level 1 maneuvers or stances

I did realize that, but I felt that it wasn't an issue for the stances and maneuvers granted from such feats. I suppose that makes more sense though >.> Back to the drawing board.

[Starbuck_II]

You do know that level 1 characters have an Adept-level of ½, right? Therefore, they're not eligible to pick up level 1 maneuvers or stances; otherwise probably the easiest way would be to take Ranger 1 with a bunch of ACFs in Trap Expert, Favored Enemy: Arcanists, Spiritual Connection and Martial Study: Crusader's Strike + Martial Stance: Martial Spirit + Combat Reflexes. That would have all the things covered. As it stands though... But now that I think about it, is there a means for Ranger to gain self-healing? It could be the best class as it has all the martial abilities you need level 1 (BAB +1 to draw weapons as a part of a move action, decent HD, Martial Weapon Proficiency), Trapfinding, high skills and all that.

Scrolls of Lesser Vigor? Rangers can cast spells from scrolls before they are level 4 (and gain spells per day).

It would only help outside of combat healing though.



I ask will the dungeons be created suitable for a solo character CR wise? After all, 1 is less than 4 in numbers.

So unless you are expecting a hard encounter every fight: CR 1 shouldn't be a common battle.
We should fight mostly CR 1/2s and 1/4th.

[Eldariel]

Scrolls of Lesser Vigor? Rangers can cast spells from scrolls before they are level 4 (and gain spells per day).

It would only help outside of combat healing though.

That's no problem, but affording them is. Wand of Lesser Vigor would do it, but 750gp is 3 times the max wealth per level I could come up with for level 1 (and you need armor and weapons too). I was thinking of some Vestige or similar. Or maybe again Tomb-Tainted Soul Dread Necromancer. Oh yeah, Lesser Vigor isn't a Ranger-spell for whatever reason, so it'd have to be CLW instead :S

[CASTLEMIKE]

Aristocrat's max starting GP is 480 GP. Throw in something like FRCS Waterdeep (page 32) starting equipment option C + 300 GP. Double Binder feats could be used to get Savnoks +1 Full plate (Of course a Human Paragon would need a feat to pick up Heavy Armor Proficiency). You could just afford a fully charged First Level Wand or 2 Faith Tokens each capable of casting a first level spell 1/day at 300 GP each or Lots of First level scrolls. (Unseen Servants for triggering traps :smallsmile:)

Wand DC is 20, First level scroll DC is 21.

UMD rank - 4 (2 as a cross class skill).

16 Char (Possibly 18 or better using point buy or a +0LA Planetouched race) so +3 or greater.

Skill Focus UMD +3.

It's a little gray could an Aristocrat start off at level 1 using the Paragon race levels to acquire UMD as a class skill (Mostly thinking Human here)?

A Jorasco Halfling with Magic in the Blood feat should be able to use their Cure Light Wounds Healing ability 3/Day instead of once a day with a Least Dragon Mark. Could be interesting with a Battle Sorcerer using the Animal Companion Variant instead of Summon Familiar.

[Cainen]

Except that at first level, you're still very much at the mercy of the dice. You really don't want to roll low and accidentally set off a trap while you're trying to disarm it.

You're STILL at the mercy of the dice no matter what you do. You'll probably roll a lot less sneaking around than fighting people individually and disarming traps.

Disarming traps may be fatal on a low roll, but in a fight you're dead if you roll low ONCE and you're making more rolls.

[Jack_Simth]

You're STILL at the mercy of the dice no matter what you do. You'll probably roll a lot less sneaking around than fighting people individually and disarming traps.

Disarming traps may be fatal on a low roll, but in a fight you're dead if you roll low ONCE and you're making more rolls.

You only need to actually roll when rushed or threatened. The rest of the time, you can take 10, and avoid roll lows entirely. Doesn't work if there's nowhere to hide, mind.

[Chronos]

It's a little gray could an Aristocrat start off at level 1 using the Paragon race levels to acquire UMD as a class skill (Mostly thinking Human here)?What's gray about it? We're talking a first level character, here. One level of Aristocrat plus one level of Human Paragon equals two levels.


You're STILL at the mercy of the dice no matter what you do. You'll probably roll a lot less sneaking around than fighting people individually and disarming traps.Oh, I agree entirely. The stealthy route is the way I'd go with this, too. I'm just saying that you want to reduce the rolling even further, if possible.

[Cainen]

You only need to actually roll when rushed or threatened. The rest of the time, you can take 10, and avoid roll lows entirely. Doesn't work if there's nowhere to hide, mind.

If there's nowhere to hide, why the hell is he even doing this?

He may as well put a magnetic room up for melee characters.

[Jack_Simth]

If there's nowhere to hide, why the hell is he even doing this?

He may as well put a magnetic room up for melee characters.
... Hide requires some kind of cover or concealment. Think to a standard hallway in a modern house - there's not really anywhere to conceal yourself if the lights are on (and many creatures of CR 1 or less also have darkvision, which amounts to the same thing, really). While there will be furniture in rooms which might be used, a great deal of the time, if you're being sneaky, you'll need to watch and wait for the spotter to turn and look the other way while you make a mad dash across a bit of open terrain. It gets worse when going through doorways.

In that vein, a Beguiler could do well - make a Silent Image of the door as you open it, so it's not seen to open.

[Cainen]

The thing is that not giving them any sort of cover or concealment means that he's making it artificially harder on one type of character over the other, and this defeats the point of the challenge.

[Zeful]

Here's my attempt, I only have access to the SRD but any advice would be appriciated.

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=16687

[Jack_Simth]

The thing is that not giving them any sort of cover or concealment means that he's making it artificially harder on one type of character over the other, and this defeats the point of the challenge.
Read what's required for cover or concealment sometime - it's actually somewhat difficult to find for most characters outside of a wilderness environment.

[CASTLEMIKE]

What's gray about it? We're talking a first level character, here. One level of Aristocrat plus one level of Human Paragon equals two levels.


You are born into an Aristocratic family and instead of taking Aristocrat -1 you take Paragon -1.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If only a level 1 Warlock had a method of healing himself (other than UMD, which gets expensive quickly on a L1 budget), he would be nearly ideal, particularly if he was able to get an extra Invocation (sadly, it takes knowing Lesser Invocations to grab an additional Least with a feat) for the Darkness/Devil's Sight combo to grant concealment for Hide checks wherever he may wish to go.

Dread Necro definately has an advantage in infinite healing and a very good first level arsenal for a caster.

Cleric also has an advantage in self-healing

Sorcerer actually might do better than Wizard on this, as they get Bluff and all simple weapons, which means Crossbow and Spear.

Crusader, of course, is a strong possibility with self-healing and melee ability, just sucks on the stealth and stealing part.

Swordsage is a surprisingly good all-round character. Pick up the Shadow Hand stance that grants concealment whenever you move, stay in it, and pick up the feat that lets you add Dex to damage when in a shadow hand stance. Str just became a dump stat. Strongheart halfling. Only problem is he can't heal himself very well.

Ranger is another solid choice. Stealthy, good in combat, decent HD, can use scrolls of CLW to heal. Pop a feat on Able Learner for Disable Device and Open Lock and you've got a major conender.

[CASTLEMIKE]

If only a level 1 Warlock had a method of healing himself (other than UMD, which gets expensive quickly on a L1 budget), he would be nearly ideal, particularly if he was able to get an extra Invocation (sadly, it takes knowing Lesser Invocations to grab an additional Least with a feat) for the Darkness/Devil's Sight combo to grant concealment for Hide checks wherever he may wish to go.



ECS Jorasco Halfling with a Least Dragon Mark of Healing CLW1/Day should increase to 3/Day with the Magic in the Blood Feat.

[Chronos]

Pop a feat on Able Learner for Disable Device and Open Lock and you've got a major conender.Able Learner does not work that way. All the feat does by itself is to make cross-class ranks cost only a single point instead of two, but it does not change increase the cap on cross-class ranks, so a first-level character with Able Learner would still only have a maximum of two ranks in cross-class skills. Multiclassing to something that has a skill on their list does increase the cap, so Able Learner is good in combination with a dip in a class with a broad skill list, like Factotum or Rogue. But that's not an option at first level.

Now, on the other hand, there's an alternate class feature for rangers in Dungeonscape which takes away tracking, but gives you Trapfinding and Disable Device as a class skill. That still leaves Open Locks, but you could probably take care of that via Shape Soulmeld: Dissolving Spittle (which isn't very subtle, but is at least quieter than the greataxe method of lockpicking). It also gives you an at-will ranged touch attack for 1d6 damage (2d6 if you're willing to spend another feat), which isn't too shabby at first level.

[Bayar]

Your characters look more and more to the guy from the Thief game series...

[CASTLEMIKE]

Your characters look more and more to the guy from the Thief game series...

Not optimal but should be fun until the traps take out. A +0 LA Plane touched Aasimar Stalwart Battle Sorcerer with a Toad Familiar (For the Dark Vision in a dugneon crawl and not needing a light source that gives the PC away along with the +2 to Wis and Char and hit points).:smallsmile:


St 14 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 12 Char 16

Hit points 8 + 2 Stalwart + 2 Con +3 Toad familiar = 15 Hit Points so he can take a hit or two. Simple weapon proficiency + one hand held weapon + one martial weapon with the Weapon Focus feat. 16 skill points.
[HTML]
It was a toss up between Improved Inititative but:

Godsight
Type: Ancient, General
Source: Lost Empires of Faerûn

You enjoy the special blessing of a deity of the Mulhorandi pantheon, who has granted you unerring powers of perception.

Prerequisite: Cha 13, Mulhorandi (aasimar, human (Mulan] or tiefling), Mulhorand region.
Benefit: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable three times per day.
Detect evil, detect magic, detect poison, detect undead, read magic.
Your caster level equals your character level.
When you take this feat, you can choose detect chaos, detect good, or detect law instead of detect evil.
Special: You can take this feat only as a 1st level character.


Precocious Apprentice Feat Scorching Ray to fuel the Fiery Burst Reserve Feat with a range of 30' for 2D6 Reflex save for half. Should probably just go with Improved Initiative since the PC has simple weapons and good weapon choices but it is fun to have with Fiery Burst.

Fiery Burst Reserve Feat.

Two Flaws.

Studded leather and a buckler.

Few first level scrolls.

Known Spells:

Cantrips:
Cure Minor (Sorcerers can learn unusual spells like from a Witch NPC DMG page 175)
Guidance (Sorcerers can learn unusual spells)
Prestidigitation
Ray of Frost

First:
Sleep

Second:
Scorching Ray

Stole your sig :smallcool: Hard to believe I prefer low level games obviously like a little cheese and have never used a Candle of Invocation. Partly DM inspired PC trauma (Gangs of Ghouls, Lycanthropes, Trolls and the the occassional Purple Worm at first level) which catalyzed my optimizer tendencies and thinking outside the box.

[Another_Poet]

Can I still put in a character, or do you have too many?

I'd love to try out a plain ol' Barbarian1.

ap

[Zeful]

I don't think Bayar has a number limit in mind.

[Another_Poet]

Sweet. Planning on taking the Ape Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#apeTotemClassFeatures) variant and the Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy )version of Rage.

We get max hp right?

Also, do you believe in cross-class skills?

[DemetriX]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post

The character is 6'10" and weighs 438 pounds. He is carrying 63 pounds of gear and coins, for a combined weight of over 500 pounds.
As crazy as it may sound, i will allow this as long as you can GET to 500 pounds. The maximum weight for a half orc is 172. I dunno how you got to 438...

Well, even with 250 pounds you weigh more than 2 tons with Expansion manifest power. Also, if he has "Stout" trait he is probably allowed to weigh 20-30 pounds more, naturally and may even create a similar flaw. Also, some races may weigh even more than Half-Orcs and don't have any level adjustment. If he wants to weigh 250 pounds he may even carry simple non-magical rocks, since he has a high Strength modifier. Well, looks pretty reasonable to me, although many DMs wouldn't have allowed it for sure! If a level 1 character can pull out 20d6 damage so (relatively) easy, something 's wrong with game's balance..

[Bayar]

Well, even with 250 pounds you weigh more than 2 tons with Expansion manifest power. Also, if he has "Stout" trait he is probably allowed to weigh 20-30 pounds more, naturally and may even create a similar flaw. Also, some races may weigh even more than Half-Orcs and don't have any level adjustment. If he wants to weigh 250 pounds he may even carry simple non-magical rocks, since he has a high Strength modifier. Well, looks pretty reasonable to me, although many DMs wouldn't have allowed it for sure! If a level 1 character can pull out 20d6 damage so (relatively) easy, something 's wrong with game's balance..

Dont you worry, I know how to compensate...

Do you know the story about the orc barbarian chased out of the house by 100 housecats ?

[Talic]

Dont you worry, I know how to compensate...

Do you know the story about the orc barbarian chased out of the house by 100 housecats ?

Unless he had a spiked chain and great cleave, lol.

[Bayar]

Unless he had a spiked chain and great cleave, lol.

Turn Undead !...so I can kick you.

Dont give these guys ideas...

[Chronos]

Your characters look more and more to the guy from the Thief game series...Yeah, that's the general idea.


And the fall-on-their-heads PsiWar can put out some pretty impressive numbers, but only in very specific situations. He won't be much use if the ceilings are low, or if the walls aren't close enough to his target.

[Zeful]

Then take ranks in Jump and tada! you get the Body Slam of Death!

[Another_Poet]

I notice this thread has ben quiet. Bayar, are you still up for running this challenge? My barbarian is ready and I would love to give it a shot!

ap

[Dresil]

Ummm... Bump?

[Starbuck_II]

Does Pathfinder count as 3.5?
Not that I'm using that, but qould like to know if I can do my character with there stuff.

LG, Race: Human, Class: Crusader 1
HD: 1d10 (2 Con/level)=12
Eyes: Brown Hair: Blond
Age: 20
Height: 5’10 Weight: 190
Abilities (showing point buy costs)
Str 16 = 10
Dex 10 =2
Con 15 = 8
Int 12 = 4
Wis 12 = 4
Cha 12 = 4
Init: +4= 4
BAB: +1
AC: 16 = (10 + 6 Splint mail +0 Dex)
Speed: 20 ft
Base: Fort+ 4/Reflex+0/Will+1
Skills: 6/level:
Balance +4 (+0), Concentration +4 (+6), Diplomacy +4 (+5), Intimidate +4 (+5), Jump +4 (+0), Know (Religion) +1 (+2), Martial Lore +1 (+2),
Cross: Climb +1.0 (-3)
Class Features:
Furious Counterstrike: Bonus on hit/dam equal to current value of your delayed damage pool divided by 5 rounding down (minimum 1). Lasts till end of your turn.
Steely resolve 5 (Delay damage till end of next turn) You can split healing between damage pool and real hp healing.
Flaws:
1) Shaky: -2 penalty on ranged attack rolls.
Feats:
1) Devoted Bulwark: +1 morale to AC until end of turn, when enemy deals damage to you with melee attack.
2) Improved Init: +4 Init
3) Rapid Assault: Your Melee attacks deal +1d6 damage in first round.
All Simple and martial melee weapon/ shield/All armor.
Weapons:
1) Guisarme: Hit +2 Dam+ 3 (2d4, x3), 12 lb, Slash, 10 ft reach, trip weapon.
2) Spiked Guantlets: Hit +3 Dam+2 (1d4, x2), Pierce, 1 lb.
3) Dart: Hit -1 Dam +2 (1d4, x2), 20 ft, pierce, 5 lb (total), Amount: 10 ( )

Alchemy Items:
1) Acid Flask x4, Hit -1 Damage 1d6 + spash.

Maneuvers: Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, and White Raven.
Stances (1):
Martial Spirit: 1 swift action activate, while in stance, you or an ally Within 30 feet heals 2 each time you make a successful melee attack.
Maneuvers Known (5):
1st:
Stone Bones (Strike): Standard action, Dur: 1 rd: single melee Attk, but gain DR 5/adamantine for 1 rd.
Crusader’s Strike (Strike): Melee attack, 1 standard action, 1 creature: Successful Attk Vs. enemy with alignment different in one component. Must pose a threat to you or your allies in some immediate/direct way. If hit, you or ally within 10 foot heals 1d6 +1 per initiator level (3) (+5 max).
Charging Minotaur (Strike): Melee attack, 1 full-round action, 1 creature, Make a bull rush attack as charge; neither movement nor bull rush provoke. Resolve as normal: If Str check exceeds opponents result, deal blunt damage equal to 2d6 + Str mod in addition to push target back. If Str check high enough you can push target back more than 5 foot (as normal for bull rush without having to follow).
Douse the Flames (Strike): Standard action, melee attack, Dur: 1 rd, 1 1 creature, deal damage deal damage and target can't make opportunity ofg attacks for 1 round.
Vanguard Strikes (Strike): Melee attack, 1 standard action, 1 creature: melee Attk versus opponent you threaten; if hit ally allies gain +4 on ranged and melee Attks against target until start of next turn.


Granted/Readied (5: 2): Stone Bones, Crusader’s Strike, Charging Minotaur, Vanguard Strike, and Douse the Flames.