PDA

View Full Version : Guns in D&D (3.5)



Bandededed
2008-08-16, 05:35 PM
This has probably been done, and is probably in an actual splat book somewhere, I just can't find it. If it has, point it out to me! Anyway...

Handcannon-

The handcannon is a two handed exotic ranged weapon. This weapon is, while sharing the name, almost completely unlike a cannon in every way. Created by the [race]'s of [place of origin], this weapon is devastating to it's enemies.

{table=header]Cost|Damage|Critical|Range Inc.|Weight|Type
1000 GP|3d10|x3|100 ft|15 lbs|Piercing[/table]

Firing the handcannon is simple. After a quick sight down the barrel, pulling the trigger back releases the hammer, which - etched with a special magical rune - triggers a burst of energy that flings the bullet out towards the enemy.

The handcannon can fire one shot before needing to be reloaded. Reloading the handcannon is a simple affair - merely dump the bullet down the barrel. However, in order to fire reliably it also requires a quick wiping down of the inside of the weapon. All of this takes a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

Ammo for the weapon is also expensive, costing nearly 20 gp a piece for the small circular pyramid of iron. This is because the bottom of each must also be etched with the same symbol as the hammer. The ammo fired from the handcannon is always destroyed after it hits something, no matter what mundane or magical precautions are taken. Even on a miss, this ammo will strike something eventually (a tree, the ground, etc) and be destroyed.
*Special: Masterwork ammo for the handcannon adds a +1 enhancement bonus to damage instead of to the attack roll.
______________________________________

Crafting a Handcannon.-

The handcannon can be crafted by nearly anyone, but it does have some requirements

Feet: Craft Handcannon
Requirements: int 13, craft 7 ranks OR Craft 12 ranks
Benefit: You have learned the special symbol required to make the handcannon work, and have been trained repetitively in it's creation. You may use the craft(weaponsmithing) or other applicable craft skill (as per DM's approval), to create a handcannon and it's ammo. In addition, you gain a +2 bonus to any craft check made to create a handcannon.

Crow
2008-08-16, 05:40 PM
There are a bunch of firearms in the 3.5 DMG. I believe in the alternate settings section.

kpenguin
2008-08-16, 05:53 PM
You know, there is a homebrew forum.

Deth Muncher
2008-08-16, 06:07 PM
You know, there is a homebrew forum.

As well, they had a bit on firearms in one of the Dragon Magazines.

Thurbane
2008-08-16, 06:32 PM
Handcannon = yar yar hump hump. :smallbiggrin:

Leon
2008-08-17, 12:02 PM
Have a look here at the Fire Arms Pdf (http://www.privateerpress.com/ironkingdoms/default.php?x=rules/downloads)

Kiara LeSabre
2008-08-17, 12:22 PM
Besides, creating ranged weapons that can't be somehow worked down to a free action reload is essentially pointless because there's almost even less reason to bother actually using them in 3.5e than there is to not just go ahead and be a full caster anyway.

"Look, the hand cannon is devastating to your enemies. And even more devastating to you because now you can't do a full attack no matter what you do."

Rion
2008-08-17, 12:44 PM
That handcannon doesn't seem cheap and incapable of hitting a barn door at 50 feet, and it looks like it's more powerfull than a crossbow, so it's not really accurate.

Deth Muncher
2008-08-17, 03:07 PM
Besides, creating ranged weapons that can't be somehow worked down to a free action reload is essentially pointless because there's almost even less reason to bother actually using them in 3.5e than there is to not just go ahead and be a full caster anyway.

"Look, the hand cannon is devastating to your enemies. And even more devastating to you because now you can't do a full attack no matter what you do."

I believe if you make it a breech-loaded weapon, it's a free action. Now, I'm AFB, so I can't give you page number/issue, but it's in and older Dragon Magazine, although I think it's after 3.5 came out.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-17, 03:09 PM
DMG pages 145-146

Deth Muncher
2008-08-17, 03:11 PM
DMG pages 145-146

Is it actually in the DMG? I've never noticed. But I specifically remember a Dragon Magazine article about gunpowder weapons.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-17, 03:14 PM
Is it actually in the DMG? I've never noticed. But I specifically remember a Dragon Magazine article about gunpowder weapons.

Yes to both. Page 145 has the Pistol and Musket. Page 146 has modern era weapons. FRCS page 31 has Smokepowder pistols, a powderhorn and 10 bullets as starting equipment for Lantan or Rock Gnomes.

Zeta Kai
2008-08-17, 03:21 PM
I made a Handcannon for the Resident Evil 4 Weapons. It is a Smith & Wesson Model 500 .45 Magnum. The first stat in a block is the initial stat, where as the other stats are upgrades.

FMArthur
2008-08-17, 03:37 PM
Maybe it could be a touch attack? Old-style plate armor doesn't stand a chance against even remotely modern firearms. It doesn't help the full-round stuff, but it could at least be a quick battle-opener that you put away and draw a sword the following turn.

Tam_OConnor
2008-08-17, 06:59 PM
Speaking as someone who's running a campaign with firearms:
1) Yeah, unless you've got Rapid Reload and breach-loaders, fire, drop and charge the next round.

2) If you're using armor as DR from UA, gunpowder weapons could ignore DR from armor. (Justified in the case of cannons like that; less so for smaller guns. Armorers used to demonstrate the quality of their breastplates by shooting them, without the bullet penetrating).

3) And I believe it was Dragon #221 that had firearms. Fairly generic. There was also a section on guns in the d20 Dragon Annual ("Guns in Freeport"), but that's fairly obscure.

I'm not much in favor of the magically-based guns, but I rabidly dislike magitech...

BRC
2008-08-17, 07:51 PM
My current setting takes place in an industrialized DnD world, though weapon technology isn't that advanced for a variety of reasons.


All I did was take the firearms from the DMG and make a few changes (I lowered the prices a little and made them Martial weapons, because Firearms have been around for awhile and are fairly common), then I declared that all crossbows were just different types of weapons, and made Hand Crossbows (or in this case a civilian-model peashooter pistol) a simple weapon. Heck, Ive let one of the players reinforce her rifles stock and use it as a heavy mace. (Counts as a second weapon for the purpose of masterworking/magicness of course)

FMArthur
2008-08-17, 11:06 PM
How about a bayonet? Are there any mechanics for those in place?

Kiara LeSabre
2008-08-17, 11:11 PM
I'm not much in favor of the magically-based guns, but I rabidly dislike magitech...

Oddly enough, magitech would probably be a logical result of magic existing. Technology itself is only a direct result of our acquisition and usage of exceptional concentrations of energy (in the form of natural gas, coal and especially oil); we didn't get "smarter" so much as we just got our hands on something that could give us the energy to do all kinds of new things that previously weren't possible.

But magic? The way it's generally presented, magic is free energy -- the zero-point energy pipe dream made reality. Perpetual-motion machines aren't possible in the real world, but in a world with magic as it's usually presented, all you need is the right combination of gestures and words! So magitech -- are you kidding? Logically, people in a world with magic as it's generally presented (unlimited) could do technology better than we can do it, without being hindered by the reality constraints we're running up against more and more with every passing day (dwindling nonrenewable resources).

To me, technology would follow magic potentially even more easily than it followed oil.

Okay, I ranted enough. :smalltongue: That said, I'm curious: why don't you like it?

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-17, 11:11 PM
How about a bayonet? Are there any mechanics for those in place?

Spear or Dagger :smallsmile:

BRC
2008-08-17, 11:12 PM
How about a bayonet? Are there any mechanics for those in place?

Crossbow Bayonets in Complete Scoundrel.

FMArthur
2008-08-18, 01:00 AM
Oddly enough, magitech would probably be a logical result of magic existing. Technology itself is only a direct result of our acquisition and usage of exceptional concentrations of energy (in the form of natural gas, coal and especially oil); we didn't get "smarter" so much as we just got our hands on something that could give us the energy to do all kinds of new things that previously weren't possible.

But magic? The way it's generally presented, magic is free energy -- the zero-point energy pipe dream made reality. Perpetual-motion machines aren't possible in the real world, but in a world with magic as it's usually presented, all you need is the right combination of gestures and words! So magitech -- are you kidding? Logically, people in a world with magic as it's generally presented (unlimited) could do technology better than we can do it, without being hindered by the reality constraints we're running up against more and more with every passing day (dwindling nonrenewable resources).

To me, technology would follow magic potentially even more easily than it followed oil.

Okay, I ranted enough. :smalltongue: That said, I'm curious: why don't you like it?

I always found it funny that people looking at fantasy settings (in any medium) usually think of magic as being in opposition to science. If magic were real, it would easily be the most studied science in the world by a long shot. Depending on the magic, we'd have decended into chaos by now, or colonized multiple different planets.

mabriss lethe
2008-08-18, 01:35 AM
Aside from this hand cannon being a better candidate in the Homebrew section, I sort of like the idea of it being a touch attack. sort of like a warlock with gunpowder.... only not quite as neat as that idea for some reason....

Triaxx
2008-08-18, 07:59 AM
I've always been annoyed by the theory that if you have magic, you can't have science and vice versa.

I prefer the explanation that magic is just a way to bend, or break the laws of science. Fly? It's just repealing the law of gravity. But eventually gravity returns.

Deth Muncher
2008-08-18, 09:56 AM
Yes to both. Page 145 has the Pistol and Musket. Page 146 has modern era weapons. FRCS page 31 has Smokepowder pistols, a powderhorn and 10 bullets as starting equipment for Lantan or Rock Gnomes.

Oh, well how bout that then.

Also, it's Dragon Magazine 321, in case people were wondering.

hamlet
2008-08-18, 10:06 AM
Ptolus had a lot of fire arms in it, and they were very well done I think.

Have to locate that book again . . .

Andras
2008-08-18, 01:28 PM
Oddly enough, magitech would probably be a logical result of magic existing. Technology itself is only a direct result of our acquisition and usage of exceptional concentrations of energy (in the form of natural gas, coal and especially oil); we didn't get "smarter" so much as we just got our hands on something that could give us the energy to do all kinds of new things that previously weren't possible.

But magic? The way it's generally presented, magic is free energy -- the zero-point energy pipe dream made reality. Perpetual-motion machines aren't possible in the real world, but in a world with magic as it's usually presented, all you need is the right combination of gestures and words! So magitech -- are you kidding? Logically, people in a world with magic as it's generally presented (unlimited) could do technology better than we can do it, without being hindered by the reality constraints we're running up against more and more with every passing day (dwindling nonrenewable resources).

To me, technology would follow magic potentially even more easily than it followed oil.

This post sums up my thoughts on the matter quite well.

Zeful
2008-08-18, 01:46 PM
I've always been annoyed by the theory that if you have magic, you can't have science and vice versa.

I prefer the explanation that magic is just a way to bend, or break the laws of science. Fly? It's just repealing the law of gravity. But eventually gravity returns.

Let's look at an average motorcycle that you wanted to magically increase the speed of. What would you be enchanting. The wheels sound good, but it's the rear one that provides the power, the other is freewheeling. The pistons? Crankshaft? Chain/belt? All of it? In the end all the power is derived from a series of short-lived chemical reactions that you can't enchant. So the Bike can't be enchanted to go faster. And even if you could the bike would break down at a faster rate equal to the speed increase.

Technology is complex enough, adding magic simply makes it more so.

FreiSchultz
2008-08-18, 02:00 PM
Well, if you like to add a little variety though, there's always Moden d20 (SRD available, I found a copy at the D&D wiki).

Griffin131
2008-08-18, 02:04 PM
Let's look at an average motorcycle that you wanted to magically increase the speed of. What would you be enchanting. The wheels sound good, but it's the rear one that provides the power, the other is freewheeling. The pistons? Crankshaft? Chain/belt? All of it? In the end all the power is derived from a series of short-lived chemical reactions that you can't enchant. So the Bike can't be enchanted to go faster. And even if you could the bike would break down at a faster rate equal to the speed increase.

Technology is complex enough, adding magic simply makes it more so.
I'd enchant it to be lighter. That way we can use extremely tough metals and not care about the weight - whereas at the moment we are restricted to Aluminum and lighter metals, which aren't always the strongest.

And as for making a motorcycle faster, dropping the weight from ~400lbs wet to ~200 lbs wet while not changing anything else would service to massively increase potential speed.

Zeful
2008-08-18, 02:47 PM
I'd enchant it to be lighter. That way we can use extremely tough metals and not care about the weight - whereas at the moment we are restricted to Aluminum and lighter metals, which aren't always the strongest.

And as for making a motorcycle faster, dropping the weight from ~400lbs wet to ~200 lbs wet while not changing anything else would service to massively increase potential speed.

Point. But that's not really enchanting to be faster, the increased acceleration would merely be a by-product of the new weight, but it's still a good point.

Which goes to serve my point as well. You can't simply make a bike faster by enchanting it to be so, you have to change something else about the bike (weight) which doesn't seem connected at a casual glance.

Kiara LeSabre
2008-08-19, 01:12 AM
Let's look at an average motorcycle that you wanted to magically increase the speed of. What would you be enchanting. The wheels sound good, but it's the rear one that provides the power, the other is freewheeling. The pistons? Crankshaft? Chain/belt? All of it? In the end all the power is derived from a series of short-lived chemical reactions that you can't enchant. So the Bike can't be enchanted to go faster. And even if you could the bike would break down at a faster rate equal to the speed increase.

Technology is complex enough, adding magic simply makes it more so.

You're missing the point.

How does the motorcycle go at all? It uses gas, right? Petrol. Fuel. Oil product. Take your pick.

It guzzles something, a liquid, that is an expression of stored energy. You need that to make it run.

Now suppose you want to make the same machine in a world with magic. You can, and not only can you make it, but you can make it run forever without needing to fuel up. Instead of powering it using gas, you power it using raw magic. You don't need to enchant the chemical reactions that make the parts move; you can just flat-out replace them altogether. Frankly, next to the efficiency of magic, they're crude and primitive.

And ... need lubrication? Hello, something like a permanent Grease effect, and you're there.

Basically, it's not a question of enchanting a motorcycle; it's that with magic, you could make the motorcycle work from the ground up better than we can make it work. To put it another way, I'm saying magic could be used as the ultimate alternative energy source, infinitely superior to oil, natural gas, coal, nuclear power, wind power, concentrated solar power and you name it.

With an unlimited energy source like that, developing technology off of it would be cake.

Zeful
2008-08-19, 01:47 AM
True but I was more pointing out that magic and non- magic technology don't really go together well. To many parts that individually don't benefit from enhancement.

Yes a magicycle would be superiour to a Earthen motorcycle, but the two are separate animals entirely.

Kiara LeSabre
2008-08-19, 01:50 AM
Don't even get me started on the computer technology D&D magic could achieve. We're still dreaming about artificial intelligence in the artificial life sense, but sentient magic items are a fact in D&D, meaning once all of the magic power plants are online (why burn coal like primitives to generate electricity when you have magic to generate electricity better and cleaner?) and computers are well and truly invented, you can then enchant them to be sentient. Ta da! Computers with true artificial intelligence, just like that.

Kiara LeSabre
2008-08-19, 01:53 AM
True but I was more pointing out that magic and non-magic technology don't really go together well. To many parts that individually don't benefit from enhancement.

Yes a magicycle would be superiour to a Earthen motorcycle, but the two are separate animals entirely.

It looks to me like you still don't understand how energy works. I'm discussing magic as an energy source. Magic-fired power plants, magic fuel cells (except unlike real fuel cells, magic can be infinite). Just every time you run into the words "gas," "coal," "oil," "nuclear" ... etc. ... substitute "magic," and realize you're discussing an infinite, 100-percent clean, free energy source, making it literally infinitely superior to all of those others.

They're not really separate animals. In every other way, the magically powered motorcycle could be basically like an Earth one -- well, more like an electric one than a combustion-engine one, but anyway.

(Unless you actually did understand what I was saying and were just talking about enchanted combustion-engine motorcycles. In that case, never mind ... but honestly, in a world with magic, no one would ever have bothered using oil for energy in the first place. Why would they? So magical combustion engine motorcycles would be a non-issue.)

Zeful
2008-08-19, 02:14 AM
Yes I do understand what your talking about and agree. Magic as a Zero-point energy source solves a lot of problems.

But, mostly I was refering to Triaxx's complaint about magic-based (mb) technology and non-magic-based (nmb) technology being commonly reffered to as incompatable or opposites. Most of the senarios involving the interaction between the two generally occur in the "modern world" where magic is the newcomer.

And I dissagree, a magical society could build an internal-combustion engine, but are only going to do so when the following are true:

Magic is not infinate.
Magic is not accessable to the general public.

Andras
2008-08-19, 02:46 PM
Magic is not infinate.

Except in D&D, it pretty much is, which is why it works.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-19, 03:05 PM
Oh, well how bout that then.

Also, it's Dragon Magazine 321, in case people were wondering.



Dragon Magazine # 232 has Sorcerous Sixguns.:smallcool:



You're missing the point.

It guzzles something, a liquid, that is an expression of stored energy. You need that to make it run.

Now suppose you want to make the same machine in a world with magic. You can, and not only can you make it, but you can make it run forever without needing to fuel up. Instead of powering it using gas, you power it using raw magic. You don't need to enchant the chemical reactions that make the parts move; you can just flat-out replace them altogether. Frankly, next to the efficiency of magic, they're crude and primitive.

And ... need lubrication? Hello, something like a permanent Grease effect, and you're there.

Basically, it's not a question of enchanting a motorcycle; it's that with magic, you could make the motorcycle work from the ground up better than we can make it work. To put it another way, I'm saying magic could be used as the ultimate alternative energy source, infinitely superior to oil, natural gas, coal, nuclear power, wind power, concentrated solar power and you name it.

With an unlimited energy source like that, developing technology off of it would be cake.

Is the magic supply Infinite or does it just appear that way do to the limited demand placed on it in most low population FRGs? Sailing from Europe to the United States the ocean appears infinite to most observers.

How efficient is that transfer? How powerful is the magical force?

Look at the electric car. Would magical cars operate on a similar efficiency or better or even worse efficiency?

What is Magical Energy closest to Gravity, Magnetism or Electricity?

Are spells the equivalent of static electricity?

To me it is more like gravity or magnetism (which through engineering can generate electricity)

Van de Graf generators are interesting because they can transfer energy safely but less efficiently than standard transmission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_de_Graaff_generator

Kiara LeSabre
2008-08-19, 03:34 PM
To me it is more like gravity or magnetism (which through engineering can generate electricity)

Well yes, exactly. You just craft a generator that turns using magic.

And the ERoEI of ... of magic?

Energy returned: enough to do things like teleport, blow up villages, stop time, fly regardless of mass, etc.

Energy invested: a few gestures and words ... maybe some bat poop or something

I'd say it's a pretty good ratio.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-19, 05:10 PM
Well yes, exactly. You just craft a generator that turns using magic.

And the ERoEI of ... of magic?

Energy returned: enough to do things like teleport, blow up villages, stop time, fly regardless of mass, etc.

Energy invested: a few gestures and words ... maybe some bat poop or something

I'd say it's a pretty good ratio.

True it might be to good and such a great ratio that it is the cause for why the advanced magical societies keep failing historically on a regular basis.

ShadowySilence
2011-01-29, 12:20 AM
Is the magic supply Infinite or does it just appear that way do to the limited demand placed on it in most low population FRGs? Sailing from Europe to the United States the ocean appears infinite to most observers.


I was wondering about this myself, you first have to ask where exactly is this energy coming from. Is the energy coming from within the caster, from surrounding life (and thus from the sun initially), from the building-blocks of the universe (this is not considering divine magic, which comes from said users god of choice)? What is to say that magic is not like a pooled energy somewhere slowly being expended, or if it is what is holding the very universe together and every time it is used a little more rips apart. Then you have to ask, is this energy just being created when called upon (if limitless) or is it being invoked by the actions of the spell-caster (if limitless or finite)? If magic is coming from surrounding life or something along those lines is it contributing towards entropy, and how quickly. Could a sudden "magitech revolution" spark a spiral downward towards entropic doom? One could also ask if magic is really energy at all or something further, something more powerful?

Waker
2011-01-29, 12:43 AM
Could a sudden "magitech revolution" spark a spiral downward towards entropic doom? One could also ask if magic is really energy at all or something further, something more powerful?
I actually liked the whole post, but I snipped just a bit off.
I prefer to imagine that arcane magic is possible by drawing out the ambient magical energies in the surroundings, hence why in areas of Dead Magic or an Antimagic field, spellcasting isn't possible. In the situation of a divine caster the rules are largely the same, except that the source is a deity or some similar being. The reason magic seems infinite is because most D&D campaigns don't have magic used to such a huge degree that it would negatively impact the world, though there are some examples depending on the storyteller.

ShadowySilence
2011-01-29, 05:54 PM
Well and another thing to consider is when spell casters (or anyone using magic for that matter) in an average campaign cast spells (or use any sort of magic) this would be akin to people of the ancient world using fire and mechanical energy. Now a world which relies on magical energy would be like ours, using it often and making a much larger impact on the source of fuel.

averagejoe
2011-01-29, 07:14 PM
The Mod They Call Me: Thread necromancy.