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togapika
2008-08-16, 10:47 PM
Playing a 5th level character 32 point buy. Character is a Warforged Warlock who thinks he's a gnome in a power suit. While I would like advice specific to this character I'm also looking to learn whether it's generally better to make a warlock ranged or melee.
I have access to all books from WOTC, although something that uses 3 or less classes would be preffered.
The only thing that has to be used is the warforged race.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-08-16, 10:53 PM
Generally, both are good. If you go melee, pick up Elderich Glaive and some way to move+full attack. If ranged, pick up Flyby Attack as soon as you qualify. Hellfire Warlock works best in melee, especially when combo'd with the Empower/Quicken/Maximize SLA feats. Either way, have you considered being a Warforged Scout? Same as a Warforged, but small size, 20' movement, and +2 dex, -2 str.

SCPRedMage
2008-08-16, 11:01 PM
For melee warlocks, its important to note that according to errata, Hideous Blow DOES provoke an Attack of Opportunity, despite the fact that the guy that wrote the damn class stating quite clearly, the entire point of the invocation was to NOT provoke one...

A friendly DM would let you get away with RAI, and not provoke while using it, but it's definitely something you might want to run past your DM, if you're thinking about using it...

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-08-16, 11:08 PM
For melee warlocks, its important to note that according to errata, Hideous Blow DOES provoke an Attack of Opportunity, despite the fact that the guy that wrote the damn class stating quite clearly, the entire point of the invocation was to NOT provoke one...

A friendly DM would let you get away with RAI, and not provoke while using it, but it's definitely something you might want to run past your DM, if you're thinking about using it...A friendly DM would re-direct you to Elderich Glaive instead, if you want to go Melee. Hideous Blow sucks, Elderich Glaive rocks.

togapika
2008-08-16, 11:41 PM
Anyone have any good builds they can show me that actually make sense roleplay wise?

Morandir Nailo
2008-08-17, 12:31 AM
I personally think that Warlock X/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Whatever works quite well. You're practically dripping with "unholy pact with Unspeakable Evil" flavor. Binder 1 is so that you can bind Naberius, who allows you to heal 1 point of ability damage every round. This gets around the Con damage done by your Hellfire-enhanced blasts, as you do take the damage; you just heal it immediately afterward. This is totally in keeping with the fluff, as the book describes Hellfire Warlocks as carrying around Wands of Restoration for just this purpose.

Anyway, you want to take the Mortalbane feat as well, for extra damage 5x/day (IIRC). Combine with a Chausible of Fell Power, and you can roll fistfuls of d6s when you use Eldritch Glaive/Blast. Power Attack is great here as well; since you're making touch attacks with your glaive, you can afford to sacrifice a good amount of to-hit in order to ramp up your damage.

Mor

monty
2008-08-17, 12:43 AM
For melee warlocks, its important to note that according to errata, Hideous Blow DOES provoke an Attack of Opportunity, despite the fact that the guy that wrote the damn class stating quite clearly, the entire point of the invocation was to NOT provoke one...

A friendly DM would let you get away with RAI, and not provoke while using it, but it's definitely something you might want to run past your DM, if you're thinking about using it...

To be honest, Hideous Blow is kind of terrible even without an AoO...

Hideous Blow is a regular melee attack, with no iterative attacks, for weapon damage + EB.
Eldritch Glaive is a touch attack, with iterative attacks, with reach, but no weapon damage.

Unless you pumped weapon damage for some reason, you'll be seeing insignificantly more damage from Hideous Blow, if you can even hit with it.

togapika
2008-08-17, 12:48 AM
Perhaps I should explain that the character assumes his warlock powers are enhancements and abilities he has added to his powersuit, so a build that specifies where his powers come from (Who he made a deal with) doesn't work in this case.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-08-17, 12:59 AM
Warforged level 5. Toss a 16 in dex, a high score in con, a high score in int, then go cha/str/wis. Take Elderich Glaive and 1 least essence. Plan to always have a least essence and one of your highest level. Take WepFinesse (Elderich Glaive), Martial Study(Sudden Leap)(or a 1 level Warblade dip)(optional), and buy a Belt of Battle or 3. Fluff the Glaive as a lightsabre that you can shoot at people, and proceed to smash stuff up. You may want to swap Int and Cha, depending on how you play, but you'll be desperate for skill points. You need UMD, Concentration, Bluff, and about half a dozen others. You get an epic skill list and only 2 per level, so Nymph's Kiss may be in order.

Talic
2008-08-17, 02:35 AM
Warforged level 5. Toss a 16 in dex, a high score in con, a high score in int, then go cha/str/wis. Take Elderich Glaive and 1 least essence. Plan to always have a least essence and one of your highest level. Take WepFinesse (Elderich Glaive), Martial Study(Sudden Leap)(or a 1 level Warblade dip)(optional), and buy a Belt of Battle or 3. Fluff the Glaive as a lightsabre that you can shoot at people, and proceed to smash stuff up. You may want to swap Int and Cha, depending on how you play, but you'll be desperate for skill points. You need UMD, Concentration, Bluff, and about half a dozen others. You get an epic skill list and only 2 per level, so Nymph's Kiss may be in order.

At level 5, if you can even reliably afford one belt of battle, your DM is exceedingly generous with WBL.

Thrawn183
2008-08-17, 10:36 AM
Well, if you did use binder levels, you could flavor them as equipment modules that he uses. One day he uses a mobility module, the next he uses a heavy weapons module (can't be more specific because I don't know much about binder.)

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-08-18, 08:21 PM
Well, if you're wanting 'Power Suit', think Iron Man.

You've already got your basic blasting with your Eldrich Blast, for 3d6. Slap in Eldrich Spear for extra range. Energy blasts galore!

Re-flavor Baleful Utterance as your 'sonic disruptor', which is basically at-will shatter

Then you have your 'multi-optic sensor suite', also known as See the Unseen (darkvision + see invisible).

Make sure you tote around a Wand of Repair Damage to heal yourself with. As you can take 10, and it only needs a 20 to UMD a wand, at 5th level, you only need a 14 CHA to never fail using it.

In fact, you can use various wands for 'modular equipment'. A wand of Web, for instance, simulates the webcaster Cyrox from Mortal Kombat 3 used. Wand of Scorching Ray is going to be pretty pointless for you, although you can use a Wand of Magic Missiles as 'target-seeking energy pulse emitter' for never-fail damage. A Wand of Grease is entirely appropriate. To quote the latest Transformer movie "Stop Lubricating the man, Bumblebee!".

Wasn't there a way you could use a wand as a built-in piece of equipment for Warforged that didn't take up a hand slot?

SCPRedMage
2008-08-19, 01:36 AM
To be honest, Hideous Blow is kind of terrible even without an AoO...

Hideous Blow is a regular melee attack, with no iterative attacks, for weapon damage + EB.
Eldritch Glaive is a touch attack, with iterative attacks, with reach, but no weapon damage.

Unless you pumped weapon damage for some reason, you'll be seeing insignificantly more damage from Hideous Blow, if you can even hit with it.
I'm not going to argue that Hideous Blow is better than Eldritch Glaive, mainly because it so ISN'T.

HOWEVER.

You don't get iterative attacks with a standard Eldritch Blast, either. The point of Hideous Blow was supposed to be getting that EB damage when you were forced to be in melee, without provoking.

And remember, Eldritch Glaive wasn't introduced with Warlock, and Hideous Blow was.

Talic
2008-08-19, 01:53 AM
With all due respect, a warlock in melee with eldritch blast isn't going to last that long whether he's got hideous blow or not.

Eldritch Glaive gives the lock Reach, which can keep people off of him. It gives touch attacks so he can reliably hit. It's a bit more unwieldy for 1 attack, but, if you find yourself in melee, the 5 foot step and WHACK is a lot better with 2-3 hits. More damage too.

Or the Fell Flight + withdraw actions.

SCPRedMage
2008-08-19, 12:59 PM
With all due respect, a warlock in melee with eldritch blast isn't going to last that long whether he's got hideous blow or not.

Eldritch Glaive gives the lock Reach, which can keep people off of him. It gives touch attacks so he can reliably hit. It's a bit more unwieldy for 1 attack, but, if you find yourself in melee, the 5 foot step and WHACK is a lot better with 2-3 hits. More damage too.

Or the Fell Flight + withdraw actions.
And, again, the entire point of Hideous Blow was to give Warlocks SOME form of melee capability. Remember, Warlocks didn't get Eldritch Glaive until Dragon Magic was released, so there WAS a point to Hideous Blow before then.

And, again, I'm NOT ARGUING THAT HIDEOUS BLOW IS BETTER THAN ELDRITCH GLAIVE. Eldritch Glaive is SO much better than Hideous Blow, so please don't talk to me like I'm crazy for saying Hideous Blow is better, BECAUSE I'M NOT SAYING THAT.

RagnaroksChosen
2008-08-19, 01:15 PM
would Hideous Blow be usfull if you dipped warlock? i can't think of any thing that would be good but i could see the extra d6 dmg come in usfull to some one using a 2hnder... mabye im just insane?

Duke of URL
2008-08-19, 01:36 PM
would Hideous Blow be usfull if you dipped warlock? i can't think of any thing that would be good but i could see the extra d6 dmg come in usfull to some one using a 2hnder... mabye im just insane?

It's really not worth the lost class features. Well, Hideous Blow isn't even worth taking as a freebie anyway, but that's beside the point. The best bet for a Warlock dip is to use the semi-permanent buffs available as lesser invocations.

The answer to the original question: "Is it better to melee or range?" is "yes". That is, pick one and specialize in it -- either go sniper/archer and work on boosting save DCs for debilitating effects, or pump up damage as much as possible and go for in-close fighting. Personally, I prefer the ranged approach since Warlocks tend to be a bit "squishy" unless you're going gestalt.

MammonAzrael
2008-08-19, 01:50 PM
I had this whole post almost finished, and then my computer shuts off. :smallfurious:

Anyways, DoURL is pretty much right, Warlocks can be good in either front. If you go melee grab Eldritch Glaive, and if you go ranged grab whatever. If you go sniper grab Eldritch Spear.

And enjoy.

And don't forget Baleful Utterance is awesome.

As for the Hellfire Warlock, don't bother with multiclassing into Binder, just take the Strongheart Vest Soulmeld. And yes, it works.

Eldariel
2008-08-19, 01:53 PM
Warlock is one of the few classes that can be respectable in melee and at range. So pick up Eldritch Glaive and switch freely as the sitiuation requires. That's Warlock Versatility for ya.

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-20, 01:56 AM
Eldritch Chain is fun too. You get multiple touch attacks, just like Glaive, but from a range. The downside is that the secondary attacks deal half damage and you can't focus on a single foe.

One of the best parts of Glaive, IMO, is what happens when you have a scroll of Divine Power and a few levels in Hellfire Warlock. At level 16+ you'll be hitting 4 times a round with your eldritch + hellfire blast. Totally worth it. :smallcool:

Wreckingrocc
2008-08-20, 09:49 AM
What's Eldritch Glavie/Chain from? It's not on crystal keep in warlock class features/invocations/features of PrCs on the warlock... Where is it?

Stupendous_Man
2008-08-20, 09:56 AM
What's Eldritch Glavie/Chain from? It's not on crystal keep in warlock class features/invocations/features of PrCs on the warlock... Where is it?

chain is in c arcane, glaive is in dragon magic

anyways, hellfire warlock makes you good at range and close up, as seen below:
http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=16640