Yakk
2008-08-17, 01:50 PM
Sure Strike (Fighter at-will 1) and Careful attack (Ranger at-will 1) are both ... rather sub-par powers.
Twin Strike (Ranger at-will 1) is viewed to be too good.
So here is an attempt to rework all 3. I like the flavor of the results myself!
Twin Strike + Ranger At-Will attack 1
Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee or Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons or a ranged weapon.
Targets: One or Two Creatures
Attack: Strength vs. AC (melee; main weapon) or Dexterity vs. AC (ranged)
Hit: 1[W] damage, and make a secondary attack against a different target.
Miss: Make a secondary attack against the same target.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC (melee; off-hand weapon) or Dexterity vs. AC (ranged)
Secondary Hit: 1[W] damage
Increase damage for both primary and secondary attacks to 2[W] at 21st level.
You make an attack against the first target. If you miss, you get to try again. If you hit, you must instead attack a different target with your second attack.
This generates a pretty reliable hit on the first target, the same total average damage as the 4e base power, but doesn't let you "alpha strike" quite as strongly.
Careful attack + Ranger At-Will attack 1
Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon or Ranged Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons or a ranged weapon.
Targets: One creature
Attack: Strength +3 vs. AC (Melee) or Dex +3 vs AC (Ranged)
Hit: 1[W]+Wisdom damage
Increase damage to 2[W]+Wisdom at 21st level.
Before this was a mere +2 to hit, and no bonus to damage. I gave the Ranger wisdom to damage -- this splits the stats needed to use this power, which makes it harder to use, and granted a +3 to hit. Between the both of them, Careful Attack ends up doing a tad more damage on average to the primary target than Twin Strike, but does less damage overall on average...
Sure Strike + Fighter At-Will Attack 1
Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Targets: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC (Melee)
Hit: 1[W]+Wis damage
Miss: Make secondary attack against the same target
Secondary Attack: Strength +2 vs. AC
Secondary Hit: 1[W] damage
Increase damage for both primary and secondary attacks to 2[W]+Wis and 2[W] respectively at 21st level.
In 4e, this was also a sucky power, and it was a clone of Careful Attack. In this version, it starts with a normal attack roll -- Str vs AC -- with no modifiers. If that connects, you get [W]+Wisdom damage. However, if you miss, you get a second attack at +2 that does [W] with no wisdom damage.
You'll notice this mixes the mechanics of the Twin Strike and Careful Attack. It ends up being just about as good as those powers, but it should feel different in play. It also rolls the Wisdom stat into a Fighter at-will power. (Fighters have Wisdom as one of their key stats, in theory).
Overall analysis:
With +2 "other" bonus, +3 wisdom, a base 50% chance to hit, a +4 stat bonus, a 5.5 average damage weapon, and a 4.5 average quarry damage, neglecting critical hits, we end up with...
Twin Strike does +1 damage over a basic attack on average to the main target, and +1.875 to a secondary target. (9 / 1.875 on average).
Careful Attack does +1.75 damage over a basic attack on average to the main target (9.75 on average).
Sure Strike does +1.75 damage over a basic attack to the main target (7.5 on average, but Fighters do less damage on basic attacks than Rangers thanks to Hunter's Quarry).
In comparison, Reaving (Reaping?) Strike does +Str/2 extra damage on average over a basic attack. (Str/4 with a one-handed weapon...)
So... Twin Strike does the same average damage (but it can only hit a given target once) as it did before. Careful and Sure end up being in the same league as Reaving Strike, average damage-per-attack wise.
I really should run numbers at "further from level 1" points.
Anyone care to point out flaws, errors, or imbalances? :-)
Twin Strike (Ranger at-will 1) is viewed to be too good.
So here is an attempt to rework all 3. I like the flavor of the results myself!
Twin Strike + Ranger At-Will attack 1
Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee or Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons or a ranged weapon.
Targets: One or Two Creatures
Attack: Strength vs. AC (melee; main weapon) or Dexterity vs. AC (ranged)
Hit: 1[W] damage, and make a secondary attack against a different target.
Miss: Make a secondary attack against the same target.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC (melee; off-hand weapon) or Dexterity vs. AC (ranged)
Secondary Hit: 1[W] damage
Increase damage for both primary and secondary attacks to 2[W] at 21st level.
You make an attack against the first target. If you miss, you get to try again. If you hit, you must instead attack a different target with your second attack.
This generates a pretty reliable hit on the first target, the same total average damage as the 4e base power, but doesn't let you "alpha strike" quite as strongly.
Careful attack + Ranger At-Will attack 1
Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon or Ranged Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding two melee weapons or a ranged weapon.
Targets: One creature
Attack: Strength +3 vs. AC (Melee) or Dex +3 vs AC (Ranged)
Hit: 1[W]+Wisdom damage
Increase damage to 2[W]+Wisdom at 21st level.
Before this was a mere +2 to hit, and no bonus to damage. I gave the Ranger wisdom to damage -- this splits the stats needed to use this power, which makes it harder to use, and granted a +3 to hit. Between the both of them, Careful Attack ends up doing a tad more damage on average to the primary target than Twin Strike, but does less damage overall on average...
Sure Strike + Fighter At-Will Attack 1
Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Targets: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC (Melee)
Hit: 1[W]+Wis damage
Miss: Make secondary attack against the same target
Secondary Attack: Strength +2 vs. AC
Secondary Hit: 1[W] damage
Increase damage for both primary and secondary attacks to 2[W]+Wis and 2[W] respectively at 21st level.
In 4e, this was also a sucky power, and it was a clone of Careful Attack. In this version, it starts with a normal attack roll -- Str vs AC -- with no modifiers. If that connects, you get [W]+Wisdom damage. However, if you miss, you get a second attack at +2 that does [W] with no wisdom damage.
You'll notice this mixes the mechanics of the Twin Strike and Careful Attack. It ends up being just about as good as those powers, but it should feel different in play. It also rolls the Wisdom stat into a Fighter at-will power. (Fighters have Wisdom as one of their key stats, in theory).
Overall analysis:
With +2 "other" bonus, +3 wisdom, a base 50% chance to hit, a +4 stat bonus, a 5.5 average damage weapon, and a 4.5 average quarry damage, neglecting critical hits, we end up with...
Twin Strike does +1 damage over a basic attack on average to the main target, and +1.875 to a secondary target. (9 / 1.875 on average).
Careful Attack does +1.75 damage over a basic attack on average to the main target (9.75 on average).
Sure Strike does +1.75 damage over a basic attack to the main target (7.5 on average, but Fighters do less damage on basic attacks than Rangers thanks to Hunter's Quarry).
In comparison, Reaving (Reaping?) Strike does +Str/2 extra damage on average over a basic attack. (Str/4 with a one-handed weapon...)
So... Twin Strike does the same average damage (but it can only hit a given target once) as it did before. Careful and Sure end up being in the same league as Reaving Strike, average damage-per-attack wise.
I really should run numbers at "further from level 1" points.
Anyone care to point out flaws, errors, or imbalances? :-)