Strip 418: translations

[Lissou]

Okay, normally I'd feel bad about starting a thread about just that, but considering all that "is v male or female?" and "is thog/belkar actually lawful good?" threads, I don't :smalltongue:

Here is strip 418 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0418.html)
I'm translating it right now (I've been woring on the particularly hard ones ahead of time to make sure I wouldn't have a problem along the line).

Well, the obvious thing is that in French, and I'm assuming in most other languages than English, the word for this boat doesn't mean anything else.
But, when I first read this comic, I didn't know "junk" was a euphemism for something else, and believe me, I still understood it perfectly. So I'm thinking about just using the word "jonque", and have everybody comment on its size and stuff, and the reference will still be obvious.

Now, my problem is with the last panel. I perfectly understand that it's a Star Wars reference. The French equivalent roughly translates to "as though thousands of voices had started yelling out of terror, only to be suddenly silenced".

My question is, should I keep the "out of terror"? Considering it's not really a double entendre anymore, wouldn't it be best to keep the "voices" part, and then put something else? Like "yelled out of laughter"? (it does make sense in French, if it doesn't in English).
But then, I read it again. It's not people laughing there, it's the double entendre that are crying. I'd say it's because they're absolutely obvious in English (which is lost in French). My husband thinks it's because nobody's pointing them out, and they're therefore crying out of frustration.

What's your interpretation? I still have a lot of time before I reach that strip, but now it's bothering me.

Also, I thought about other puns to make instead, but... I think it works better leaving it as "jonque". I mean, just the other day a coworker spent the whole day talking about how he had a large... I can't even remember what it was. Could have been anything. Everybody knew what he was actually saying.

(Oh, and the package one works exactly the same way as in English)

So, any suggestion/help?

[Amarsir]

In English the phrase "cried out" is sufficient, and the sentence relies on context to clarify what type of cry. Thus people could cry out in laughter, in terror, out of desire for attention ...

Rich was able to use this lack of specificity to make the joke work. It was implied that the original "thousands of voices cried out" was in terror as you say. But since the context isn't part of the quote, that's why he was able to turn it here.

I take it that's not possible in French?

If possible, I would make the cries simply of the "to get your attention" type. Of course the closer you stay to the Star Wars line, the better. But enough to get the joke across is sufficient.

[Lissou]

In English the phrase "cried out" is sufficient, and the sentence relies on context to clarify what type of cry. Thus people could cry out in laughter, in terror, out of desire for attention ...

Rich was able to use this lack of specificity to make the joke work. It was implied that the original "thousands of voices cried out" was in terror as you say. But since the context isn't part of the quote, that's why he was able to turn it here.

I take it that's not possible in French?

If possible, I would make the cries simply of the "to get your attention" type. Of course the closer you stay to the Star Wars line, the better. But enough to get the joke across is sufficient.

Thanks. Since the "original" line in French (as in, the famous one that keeps being quoted) is "cried out in terror", I'll have to change the "terror" part, either replacing it with something else or dropping it. If you think the "cried out" was in the way Elan goes "Oooo, Roy!" in strip 2, then that solves it. My main problem really was "what to change it to?" as it does have to be changed.

If the Star Wars sentence had been translated more literally, it wouldn't be a problem. But I want to stick as close to the well-known line as possible, you know. You gotta please the fans :P

[Ron Miel]

A couple of thoughts

suggestion # 1) Instead of Ben Kenobi's line, why not use Darth Vader's line instead.

"I sense something ... a double entendre I've not felt since ... "



suggestion # 2) I've heard that sometimes translators not only have to change the language, they also sometimes have to eliminate a particular cultural reference and substitute a different cultural reference.

An example of this, Cyrano De Bergerac in the original French contains a reference to a particular French literary work. Most of the French audience would recognize the quote, but it would be lost on an English audience. So the translator changed it to a Shakespearian reference instead: "Oh that this too, too, solid nose would melt" which would be more familiar.

Maybe you should discard the star wars reference altogether, and substitute something French instead.

" But where are the double entendres of yesteryear?"


what's the French for double entendre anyway?

[David Argall]

what's the French for double entendre anyway?

French is the language of love. There are no non-double entendres in it, and thus no need to a term for double entendre.

[Lissou]

Actually, we don't have a common term for double entendre that I know of. We have some literary terms that most people wouldn't be familiar with, or whole phrases used instead.
It doesn't matter, though, as it's not a double entendre anymore. "jonque" in French is only a boat. Therefore, it becomes a euphemism or something.

I could replace the quote with something French, but Star Wars is famous enough that I don't need to. Actually, most references in the Order of the Stick don't need to be changed at all, save for a few (Oprah's on at 4...)

I could change the line and use another one, but I'd rather work with the same one if it's possible. And I think it is. I just needed to know what Belkar exactly meant (or whether it was supposed to be vague).

But thanks a lot for the suggestions. And yes, a lot of things have to be changed in translations, and adapted. It gets even trickier when it's a comic and there is a picture.

On adaptation I did was for instance trading the "and you can watch it in Spanish" from strip 40-something to "and you can watch it in the original English", because in France, being able to watch something in Spanish is weird, but being able to watch it in the original language (usually English) makes perfect sense.

Another thing is the "when the goat turns, red strike true".
There is the "goat" part that might not always work. But more importantly, and something I find has been neglected by most translators of the strip, in most languages, calling Haley's hair "red" (as opposed to orange) is very, very weird. It would be like having a prophecy with the word "green" in it, and in the end finding that it's Elan, because of his hair!
I've run into that before, when my mother in law told me that when she was young she died her hair red. I thought she meant tomato red. Turns out she meant orange.
So yeah, the prophecy needs to be changed in other languages, although in most translations I've red, it seems that Haley is still referred as "Red". Which I guess is acceptable if no better translation is available, I was lucky enough to find something else to use instead.

[Chronos]

But, when I first read this comic, I didn't know "junk" was a euphemism for something else, and believe me, I still understood it perfectly. So I'm thinking about just using the word "jonque", and have everybody comment on its size and stuff, and the reference will still be obvious.This sounds fine to me. While "junk" is indeed English slang for male genetalia, it's not very widely-used slang. Mostly, it's just a specific illustration of the fact that anything can have sexual meaning if used in the right (or wrong) context. I imagine that having a bunch of people talk about a man's jonque as being particularly large and strong and such will work just fine.