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View Full Version : I just had an idea I love, but as a noob DM I have no idea how to do it. Plz help 3.5



celestialkin
2008-08-19, 06:01 AM
I have spent most of the night reading up on old D&D material, and at some point last night I came across the Slaad (I know not completely old, but their Lords caught my attention), and that eventually lead me to my new perfectly-suited-to-my-personality race (along with kobolds) the Modron. After reading about the Modron, and comparing them to the inevitables and the formians, I quickly realized that I like them a whole lot more (they never sat well with me actually, which sucked since I really liked the mental images I get from imagining Mechanus. Come on, ANTS?). Also, from what little I've learned I believe I will like the old Nirvana outer plane (or was it once an inner plane?) more than the current Mechanus (I plan on buying the 2.0 Planescape and 1ed PDF books from paizo.com after I post this thread). Plus the older Modron art attracts me in a strange way, which only older (I guess you can "trippy".) sci-fi art of that style can (however, I also REALLY like the Dragon #354 art version in a completely different way, which puts me at a crossroad...).

Anyway, I got issue #354 of Dragon in PDF form ASAP when I saw that it had a "Return of the Modron" article, but I was quickly disappointed with it. I disliked them being a crippled race, Primus being dead, and all that stuff (I guess WotC ruined some things for D&D long before 4.0...). So, this got me wanting to retcon my homebrewed setting/multiverse to bring them back.

As usual, I began to think of it as big picture first, then zooming into details. At first I imagined a few scenes (I tend to have short movie-like scenes/daydreams run through my head when I imagine my plot, backstory, etc for my games. Anyone use this strategy?) where there was confusion and a bit of chaos across the multiverse as the inevitables and formians suddenly began to fade away everywhere on the other planes, followed by the entire plane of Mechanus as if they were all a dream. I thought of explaining it as Primus having made it all an illusion while Nirvana, Regulus, and the Modrons recovered. I ended up disliking this, since it made even less sense than D&D requires (how can simple illusions be such an important force, and fight so many wars and battles?) and meant that the Modrons would have indeed been crippled and Primus killed (and an entire timeless race from before etc etc etc being obliterated by a measly Demon Lord disguising himself as their GOD just to simply find an item of his?!).

Then I got the idea of having an unbalance in the multiverse and/or timestream theme where a whole other Plane of Existence appears from seemingly nowhere, and to boot it is apparently meant to serve the same (or very similar, depending on what I read in the older editions) purpose as one already in the lineup. Now, where to go from here I have no idea sadly...:smallfrown:

Maybe a LN Plane of Existence on LN Plane of Existence cosmic war of epic proportion, while the rest of the multiverse watches with a WTF :smalleek: expression on their faces?

Even if I could work the ridiculousness and confusion out of this, where would I go after that? I haven't yet done something on this scale. And how would/should I go about involving some lowly adventurers in all this? Even if adventurers/PCs did get involved in something like this, could they really make a difference in such an epic thing?

And yes, I guess the simplest solution would probably be to just say "There are no inevitables and formians in my setting", but in my almost a year-long running Campaign Setting/Campaign Multiverse (what I like to call it, and which I wish to keep going for a very long time, if not my entire DM lifespan) they have already fought and killed some formians, and another party (along with one of the same players) had an inevitable pop in and serve some major whoop-butt. Also, I kinda like where this concept is starting to head, and I will probably enjoy the challenge of it.



p.s. I am a bit confused about something else. Was/Is Primus the one who controls/controlled the cogs of Mechanus, and if so was that taken over by the queen of the formians?


As always, thank you all for any help and advice!

Occasional Sage
2008-08-19, 10:41 AM
You know, I was really curious about this thread; almost 90 reads and no replies made it intriguing. I've tried several times now to read through and figure out what you're needing help with, but the Wall Of Text is defeating me. I'm sure that it's all very useful information, but the stream of consciousness format makes my brain wander.

Would you number or bullet point your particular questions for our convenience? If there's thought process or back story that you think is absolutely mandatory for readers to understand, perhaps it can be spoilered after the concise question?

You might get more responses that way....

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-19, 11:26 AM
I thought of explaining it as Primus having made it all an illusion while Nirvana, Regulus, and the Modrons recovered. I ended up disliking this, since it made even less sense than D&D requires (how can simple illusions be such an important force, and fight so many wars and battles?) and meant that the Modrons would have indeed been crippled and Primus killed (and an entire timeless race from before etc etc etc being obliterated by a measly Demon Lord disguising himself as their GOD just to simply find an item of his?!).

Well, remember that Orcus at the time was Tenebreous, and was a deity himself, albeit a very minor one. He was after his wand, which would have made him a full deity again and he needed the Modron's to scout the multiverse for him.


Then I got the idea of having an unbalance in the multiverse and/or timestream theme where a whole other Plane of Existence appears from seemingly nowhere, and to boot it is apparently meant to serve the same (or very similar, depending on what I read in the older editions) purpose as one already in the lineup. Now, where to go from here I have no idea sadly...:smallfrown:

Maybe a LN Plane of Existence on LN Plane of Existence cosmic war of epic proportion, while the rest of the multiverse watches with a WTF :smalleek: expression on their faces?

A good way to do that is to remember that Mechanus is next to the Infernal Battlefield of Acheron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acheron_(plane)); perhaps the battle spills over into Mechanus?


Even if I could work the ridiculousness and confusion out of this, where would I go after that? I haven't yet done something on this scale. And how would/should I go about involving some lowly adventurers in all this? Even if adventurers/PCs did get involved in something like this, could they really make a difference in such an epic thing?

And yes, I guess the simplest solution would probably be to just say "There are no inevitables and formians in my setting", but in my almost a year-long running Campaign Setting/Campaign Multiverse (what I like to call it, and which I wish to keep going for a very long time, if not my entire DM lifespan) they have already fought and killed some formians, and another party (along with one of the same players) had an inevitable pop in and serve some major whoop-butt. Also, I kinda like where this concept is starting to head, and I will probably enjoy the challenge of it.

p.s. I am a bit confused about something else. Was/Is Primus the one who controls/controlled the cogs of Mechanus, and if so was that taken over by the queen of the formians?

As always, thank you all for any help and advice!

I think the cogs and gears of Mechanus operate on the lawful energies of the plane itself and don't need a deity to oversee them, though I'm sure Primus could have bent them to his will at need. Primus was to the Modrons what Lolth is to the Drow. Without Primus, more and more Modrons will go rogue and Modron society will experience change for the first time in well, forever.

Here's the 3.0 Manual of the Planes info on Moldrons if anyone needs stats. Of course this is from pre-"Primus getting slain" days: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010921a&pf=true

Telonius
2008-08-19, 11:41 AM
Idea ... the gears. Something's wrong with them. Primus has something to do with that prime gear. He's been acting off, the other modrons noticed it, and have an alternate gear prepared to resuscitate Primus. That gear is the alternate universe. To save this timestream the adventurers need to travel into the gears (each actually being their own demiplane) to fix things and prevent the gear being switched.

To involve the PCs, the timeline of this world is getting a little wacky. Quaruts have been sent to apprehend them for a crime they haven't yet committed. Take it from there.

Darrin
2008-08-19, 02:35 PM
I'd suggest something like...

Using the Great Orrery and various divination powers, Primus foresaw his demise and created a contingency plan. After being killed by Tenebrous, a Secundus should have stepped up to become the new Primus. But Primus arranged for one of the Secundus to escape to a hidden demi-plane, and removed a piece of the Great Orrery to hide the location of the demi-plane. So while Regulus may now appear to be in a bit of a shambles, and the formians and inevitables have stepped into the power vacuum to take over Mechanus, a new Primus has been secretly rebuilding an army of Modrons and positioning them for a dramatic resurgence.

Vindicus, the demi-plane where the new Primus is rebuilding the new Modron stronghold, could resemble the older plane Nirvana. Or it could be hidden in the prime material plane somewhere deep underground (but close enough to the PCs that they might stumble across it). Or it could be hidden inside a shadow plane, perhaps because the new Primus has aligned himself with some sort of undead shadow deity, and the two have created a new race of "shadow modrons" that resemble a mix between the old modrons and shadow creatures (using the shadow creature template from Lords of Madness).

Regulus, the old Modron stronghold, appears to be a shell of its former self, but it's actually an elaborate trap laid for the ambitious formians. After Tenebrous vacates Regulus, the Scion Queen Mother invades to help consolidate her power, but is surprised and sandwiched between Regulus' automatic defenses and the inevitables (there having been some obscure law somewhere expressly forbidding the formians from invading Regulus).

The piece Primus removed from the Great Orrery of course falls into the hands of the PCs as a MacGuffin. At first it looks like just a minor magic item (ring of sustenance or rod of suprise) or small clockwork animal (figurine of wondrous power or a wizard's clockwork familiar). But several powerful entities are out to get it back:

* Tenebrous may need it to fix the Great Orrery so he can track down the Wand of Orcus again, or open a permanent gate to Acheron or the Abyss or whatever the Demon Lord is up to.

* The Scion Queen Mother thinks she needs it to disable Regulus' automatic defenses and thus take control of the Modrons.

* The new Primus may be after it, maybe because he's built a replacement Great Orrery in Vindicus and needs to activate it, or his forces may be trapped in Vindicus and he can't unleash his new army until the Teleportation/Plane Shift powers of the original Great Orrery are repaired.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-19, 03:17 PM
Sounds a little bit like the Planescape campaign setting. The Great Modron March or Tales of the Infinite Stairway. I prefer to adapt some of the existing material or just ignore it instead of all the time necessary to create it from scratch.

If you have access to the Epic Level Handbook the Immortal Leshay (Alignment Any) or a faction could be trying to return back to their cosmos not really caring if a few Powers and lots of mortals in our reality might be destroyed as a result.

Basically DR0 Immortals they may have not become very impressed with their lesser mortal kin after countless ages.

Mechanus could be guarding the Gate Key (Sigil) allowing them to return home however their passage through the gate would be akin to Vecna in Sigil in Die Vecna Die (Disatrous for reality).

Mechanus also guards the Slaad Key which can restore the Slaad race to Primal power if returned to Limbo.

The Leshay and the Slaad Lords are working in concert to achieve their goals.

What kind of Immortal would be created from the union of a Leshay and one of the Slaad Lords?

bosssmiley
2008-08-19, 03:38 PM
I must have recommended this to 3 or 4 people now, but it remains a good source for epic scope and scale inspiration: Dicefreaks, the Lawful Project (http://dicefreaks.forumz.cc/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=408).

How did the Great Ring cosmology form?
Who built the first Inevitables, and why?
What are the Gear Spirits, and whom do they serve?
What happens when Primus loses the Mandate of Heaven to the Formians?
How did the Parai (aka the Visilights) earn the epithet of 'the onrushing tide'?
Who were the Vaati, and why is the Rod of Seven Parts such a big deal anyway?
Why do I get the feeling I've seen all this happening before?

Lawful Project is EPIC in a way that the ELH will never be. :smallcool:

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-19, 04:32 PM
I must have recommended this to 3 or 4 people now, but it remains a good source for epic scope and scale inspiration: Dicefreaks, the Lawful Project (http://dicefreaks.forumz.cc/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=408).

How did the Great Ring cosmology form?
Who built the first Inevitables, and why?
What are the Gear Spirits, and whom do they serve?
What happens when Primus loses the Mandate of Heaven to the Formians?
How did the Parai (aka the Visilights) earn the epithet of 'the onrushing tide'?
Who were the Vaati, and why is the Rod of Seven Parts such a big deal anyway?
Why do I get the feeling I've seen all this happening before?

Lawful Project is EPIC in a way that the ELH will never be. :smallcool:

I like Guide to Hell and The champion of Law The Ouroboros of Jazirian and Ahriman. (Two Lawful Champions of Law (Over-Powers) working together in concert before their fall and loss of Power to mere Greater Gods.

The LN Lady of Pain built the first Ineveitables (She was created from the fall of the Ouroboros).

That is a Great Secret which must be gleaned from a Great Guardian of Secrets and Lore like Asmodeus or Vecna.

He becomes a mere Demi-Power servant of Law or is absorbed by his successor.

Consider thinking of them as Primal beings on par with standard Titans or mortals with powerful templates like Epic Mortal Paragons and Gestalt classes it is a hard mechanic to quantify to everyone's satisfaction. Something on par with the mechanics of a Mercurial could also work.

The Vaati fashioned the Rod of Law, and with it defeated Miska, banishing him to Pandemonium. What effect would it have on the Queen?

That was due to a Bard long forgotten by history "Despite their losses in battle their numbers ....The Onrushing Tide............"

It is an important keystone to the Queen's plan of subverting the Artifact which makes it important to her subjects and enemies. :smile: