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View Full Version : Thoughts on the Warlock class? [3.5]



Frosty
2008-08-19, 04:05 PM
I've never played the Warlock class myself, and am wondering how fun and useful the class is. Assume that I'm not going for a melee-monster build, what can I do with a Warlock? Assume no Tome of Magic and no Tome of Battle, and setting specific things are not automatically allowed. Completes are fine.

What is my role in the party, and how can I do it well?

Eldariel
2008-08-19, 04:13 PM
Warlock makes for a fine Archer. It's also one of the very few out-of-the-box archer/melee'ers. If you go for Eldritch Disciple, you can be a healer later on, but early on that's others' job. Other than being a basic damage combatant, you'll have some nova-ability with the Spell-Like Ability-metamagic feats, and you're capable of using Wands, so you can do out-of-combat healing and such.

Later on, you'll also be handy for crafting stuff with "Deceive Item" and all that. But mainly, you'll be a magical archer/fighter with solid evasion-abilities out of the box, and some handy spells at will (Summon Swarm is great early on, the Grasping Hand-thing is alright midway through and you've got all the True Seeing/Flying/etc. covered). Other than that, you'll be the secondary magic item-user along with Rogues and later on crafter.

In one word:
Support and Striker

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-08-19, 04:14 PM
Warlock is a striker with some utility spells and some save-or-be-inconvenienced stuff. At-will invocations can be nice(Summon Swarm owns at 1st level and Baleful Utterance is good for life), and you can use blast essences and shapes to make your EB more versatile. It's not great, and only breaks if you go melee and try to, but it's a good, fun class.

Frosty
2008-08-19, 04:20 PM
If you wanted to build a say...3rd level Warlock and you had 3 total feats to play with, what would your build look like? Assume you can fly naturally. I heard that Warlocks can also make ok Faces?

Eldariel
2008-08-19, 04:24 PM
Well, Warlock can benefit of a rather high Charisma, so the face-part works. They also have Bluff, Intimidate and Disguise in class (and Invocations that help them, including Diplomacy). You can pump Diplomacy through synergy-bonuses and enhance intimidation with flaming darkness on your palm, so the job is very fitting for a Warlock.

MammonAzrael
2008-08-19, 04:33 PM
They can make good faces thanks to the invocation Beguiling Influence, which grants a +6 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate. And they already like Charisma, since it affects their save DCs and UMD.

At 3rd level you have 2 Invocations, I'd probably take Beguiling Influence(if you're aiming to be the party face) and Baleful Utterance.

Early on, Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot are nice, but loose their usefulness at later levels. Going for the Psionic Shot and Greater PS are fairly popular (you'd want Psionic Meditation too). Ability Focus (Eldritch Blast) is almost always a good bet.

Frosty
2008-08-19, 04:36 PM
Hmm...not doing psionics this game. What exactly does Baleful utterance do, and does it require a save? Ability focus would help with anything related to DCs.

Oh yeah, Warlocks can wear light armor right? No reason to not have a Chain Shirt I guess?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-08-19, 04:40 PM
Correct, wear the best armor you can. Also, look at Nymph's Kiss. You get a good skill list and no points, so anything to boost that is welcome, and it gives you a bonus to Cha skills. Baleful Utterance is Shatter at-will. Point-Blank and Precise Shot are good now, but as it's a touch attack, you'll be auto-hitting later anyways. I'd snag a flaw or 2, just in case.

Eldariel
2008-08-19, 04:44 PM
Baleful Utterance is Shatter at will. Great for breaking opponents' gear, locks, walls, doors, whatever. It's a level 2 spell at will on a low level. Take it.

As for feats, much depends on what kind of a Warlock you build (high Cha Warlocks have a completely different focus than low Cha Warlocks; at high Cha, you'll want to go for things that have saves and all that, while at low Cha, you'll want to Blast away with 24h buffs again asking for a different set of feats):
-Flyby Attack is a must (what Spring Attack should've always been)

-Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot should be considered in a lowlevel game to avoid hitting allies - if you plan on focusing on Eldritch Blast, this is good. If you plan on using Invocations more, this isn't that good, nor at the point where you've got high Attacks; you'll roll touch attacks, so on higher levels with medium BAB, you'll have no trouble.

-Ability Focus is a great feat (for example on Eldritch Blast) for high Cha Warlocks. Low Cha Warlocks can't really use Save-or-X Invocations even with this, so it's wasted for them, but if you've got high Cha, go for it.

-Craft X-chain tends to occasionally be worth it, depending on if your party needs a Crafter and how much downtime you've got. You'll be no Artificer, but with Decieve Item, you'll be a good second. Craft Wondrous Items is probably the prime candidates for this.

-Apprentice allows you to skillmonkey better, but is very DMG-dependant. If you wanna be a monkey, ask your DM nicely.

-Spell-Like Ability Metamagic is a must once you qualify for it. Especially Quicken and probably Empower.


And as Stoopid said, Nymph's Kiss is great if you qualify (that is, you're a Chaotic Good Warlock who's intimate with fey). It goes great with both, your monkeying and your Cha-focus.

Frosty
2008-08-19, 04:51 PM
What if the character *is* a Fey? Would that qualify? Planning using that Half-Nymph I wrote up, possibly combined with the Half-Fey template. I'll have a pretty high charisma (probably 24) so the DCs should be pretty high. I'll also spend a feat on Ability Focus (Stunning Glance) so I have a save-or-suck for 1d4 rounds. We get 5 levels worth of race/template for free.

Eldariel
2008-08-19, 04:54 PM
Doesn't qualify in and of itself, but you could reasonably assume that you would quite easily qualify through external reasons. Also, Half-Nymph Warlock :eek: The story behind that must be quite...frightening, unless you've reflavoured Warlock.

Frosty
2008-08-19, 04:57 PM
It's too bad I have to be exalted to take Nymph's Kiss though. RP-wise...I really don't wanna be exalted. There's too much FUN and MISCHIEF to be had when you're a friggin' Half-nymph warlock!

Fluff-wise, Warlocks can make deals/pacts with Fey as well as with devils right? Hell, in 4e, that is made very clear.

Eldariel
2008-08-19, 05:00 PM
3.5e Warlock derives their power from heritage rather than pacts. The Pacter in 3.5 would be Binder. The Warlock is like the Sorcerer, except with the heritage in much more immediate past. Of course, this is all just flavour and all too easy to reflavour, but what Complete Arcana says on the Warlock is pretty much what I just quoted. Dark Magic Incarnate, who can either embrace (be evil) or fight (be good) their essence.

To clarify, Pacts are the thing that empowers 3.5 Warlock too, but a Pact of his ancestors. And the Pact was made to "dark and chaotic powers", which I don't think the Fey qualify for. Besides, their abilities are quite identical to those of the Demonkin inhabiting the Abyss.

MammonAzrael
2008-08-19, 05:02 PM
No, 3.5 Warlocks are quite clearly fluffed with demons only. That's why they have that alignment restriction. Obviously it can be changed fairly easily. I also made a warlock that took into account pacts with other creatures (it's in my sig).

And Shatter at will is terrific. On top of that, if you destroy something being held, the holder has to make a save or be dazed for a round and deafened for a minute. It's so insanely useful, I can't imagine ANY Warlock not taking it.

Chronos
2008-08-19, 05:17 PM
It's so insanely useful, I can't imagine ANY Warlock not taking it.I can: A first or second level warlock who takes Summon Swarm, instead.

But yeah, once you have two least invocations, there's no reason whatsoever not to take it.

MammonAzrael
2008-08-19, 05:21 PM
I can: A first or second level warlock who takes Summon Swarm, instead.

But yeah, once you have two least invocations, there's no reason whatsoever not to take it.

1st level maybe, but you get your second invocation at 2nd level. :smallbiggrin:

Douglas
2008-08-19, 05:31 PM
No, 3.5 Warlocks are quite clearly fluffed with demons only.
No, there's a lesser emphasis on it, but fey are definitely in there. There's even a set of Fey Heritage based feats in Complete Mage intended for warlocks. In fact, if you're going for high save DCs, Fey Power is one of the few ways to boost those even higher for warlocks.

Frosty
2008-08-19, 05:33 PM
Won't swarms attack me as well?

Chronicled
2008-08-19, 05:35 PM
Won't swarms attack me as well?

Use with care.

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-19, 05:51 PM
Won't swarms attack me as well?

If you're silly enough to cast it so you're the closest meal it will go after you. However, unlike the spell version, the duration for the Summon Swarm Invocation is simply Concentration, rather than Concentration + 3 rounds. So all you need to do to disperse your swarm is stop Concentrating. Since concentration is a standard action, and using the invocation is a standard action, you can pretty much move the swarm where ever you like on your turn just be recasting it.

A spellcaster would have to blow lots of spell slots to make that trick work, but since invocations are at will it's no problem! :smallbiggrin:

Frosty
2008-08-19, 05:53 PM
Is it still good at level 3?

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-19, 06:02 PM
Is it still good at level 3?

Still reasonably good. It remains good until the enemies you're fighting can easily make the two DC 11 fort save or sucks and your melee members start to hit consistently.

It's a 10' by 10' shapable area and you literally can't miss with your damage, but it's only 1d6 damage. So I would take it, and trade it out as soon as you get your second lesser invocation.

Chronos
2008-08-19, 06:03 PM
Well, it's always 1d6 damage (no save) to four contiguous squares, plus a couple more save-or-mildly-inconvenience effects with low DCs. At 3rd level, you're probably not encountering things immune to it yet, but you can probably find better uses of your actions than 1d6 damage.

Fortunately, you can swap out invocations as you level up. So whenever you get to the point where you're not using it any more, you can replace it with something you can still use.


A spellcaster would have to blow lots of spell slots to make that trick work, but since invocations are at will it's no problem!This is another point in favor of Baleful Utterance, too. There are a lot of things it's fun to shatter, if you don't have to worry about wasting spell slots on something trivial.

Frosty
2008-08-19, 06:11 PM
It's a 10' by 10' shapable area and you literally can't miss with your damage, but it's only 1d6 damage.

Why does this remind me of a certain level 1 at-will attack power that Wizard get in 4e?

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-19, 06:13 PM
Well, it's always 1d6 damage (no save) to four contiguous squares, plus a couple more save-or-mildly-inconvenience effects with low DCs. At 3rd level, you're probably not encountering things immune to it yet, but you can probably find better uses of your actions than 1d6 damage.

Fortunately, you can swap out invocations as you level up. So whenever you get to the point where you're not using it any more, you can replace it with something you can still use.

This is another point in favor of Baleful Utterance, too. There are a lot of things it's fun to shatter, if you don't have to worry about wasting spell slots on something trivial.

Right! :smallsmile:

Remember that if you hit at least two monsters with your swarm, you're doing the same total damage as your Eldritch Blast without the possibility of a miss. Plus you can block off choke points and use them for setting off traps.

Frosty
2008-08-19, 06:24 PM
Can I shatter magical items if the items fail a save? Or NON-magical items only?

Say, does anyone know if Warlocks qualify for the "Obtain Familiar" feat and whether Familiars are useful to warlocks at all? Can you "Share Invocations" instead of "Share Spell"?

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-19, 06:35 PM
Can I shatter magical items if the items fail a save? Or NON-magical items only?

Has to be non-magical. List of fun, usually nonmagical items to shatter: enemy belt buckles, locks, key that BBEG's produce to open their escape routes, and especially material component pouches, expensive components and spellbooks.

There is a lesser Invocation you can use to dispel magic, and as a combo attack you can supress an items magic then shatter it. The only problem with that is that something useful enough to need to be shatterred will probably be very nice to have as loot instead.

Dhavaer
2008-08-19, 06:37 PM
Can I shatter magical items if the items fail a save? Or NON-magical items only?

Only non-magical. It also stuns (and deafens? haven't read the class for a while) the creature holding the item if they fail a save.

Frosty
2008-08-19, 06:38 PM
So is Baleful utterance an Eldritch Blast? If I take Quicken SLA can I Dispel then Balteful Utterance?

Dhavaer
2008-08-19, 06:45 PM
So is Baleful utterance an Eldritch Blast? If I take Quicken SLA can I Dispel then Balteful Utterance?

No, Baleful Utterance is an invocation all its own. You could Quicken it if you were high enough level, but I seem to recall the level requirements for Quicken Spell Like Ability to be quite draconian.

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-19, 06:48 PM
So is Baleful utterance an Eldritch Blast? If I take Quicken SLA can I Dispel then Balteful Utterance?

No, Eldritch Blast is a seperate power, but you can take Quicken SLA (Voracious Dispelling) then use your standard action to invoke Baleful Utterance. The problem is you won't qualify for Quicken SLA until caster level 10ish, and by then you'll probably have better options for an attack routine. And, like I said before, anything worth expending that many action resources to destroy would better off as part of your WBL allotment rather than so much dust at the enemies feet.

Shatter/Baleful Utterance is more of a fun utility spell, something you use to solve all kinds of problems. In combat, you'll be blasting and manuevering around for a Glaive attack... oh yeah, you'll want to ask if Eldritch Glaive from Dragon Magic is allowed. It lets you be a serious melee threat once you get to BAB 6+. That's what I'd trade from your Summon Swarm Invocation, actually.

Eldariel
2008-08-19, 06:52 PM
Only non-magical.

I've always failed to find this - Shatter-description simply states that magical items get a Will-save, as opposed to being un-Shatterable, yet I seem to read that magic items can't be shattered at all. I just cannot find this anywhere.

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-19, 07:03 PM
I've always failed to find this - Shatter-description simply states that magical items get a Will-save, as opposed to being un-Shatterable, yet I seem to read that magic items can't be shattered at all. I just cannot find this anywhere.


Shatter creates a loud, ringing noise that breaks brittle, nonmagical objects; sunders a single solid, nonmagical object; or damages a crystalline creature.

Used as an area attack, shatter destroys nonmagical objects of crystal, glass, ceramic, or porcelain. All such objects within a 5-foot radius of the point of origin are smashed into dozens of pieces by the spell. Objects weighing more than 1 pound per your level are not affected, but all other objects of the appropriate composition are shattered.

Alternatively, you can target shatter against a single solid object, regardless of composition, weighing up to 10 pounds per caster level. Targeted against a crystalline creature (of any weight), shatter deals 1d6 points of sonic damage per caster level (maximum 10d6), with a Fortitude save for half damage.

Fun! I just noticed that people fit the 'single solid object' limits described and are within the weight limits most of the time. Look out world! Only the overweight will be spared! :smallbiggrin:

MammonAzrael
2008-08-19, 07:04 PM
Shatter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shatter.htm)

Baleful Utterance does all that ^ (any of the three options) plus, if you shatter something that was being held by a creature, the creature must make a save or be dazed for 1 round and deafened for 1 minute.

And yes, nonmagical items only. Eldariel, read the link, the term nonmagical is all over the description. :smallsmile:

EDIT: partly ninja'd!

Eldariel
2008-08-19, 07:09 PM
I wonder how we managed to read it as just requiring a save from Magic Items - I suppose we just assumed the last paragraph was a separate mode that wasn't limited by the limitations presented in the first paragraph. Of course, reading it again, it's clear that this isn't the case. Hmm, now I'll just have to figure out what the heck I've been thinking.

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-19, 07:14 PM
I wonder how we managed to read it as just requiring a save from Magic Items - I suppose we just assumed the last paragraph was a separate mode that wasn't limited by the limitations presented in the first paragraph. Of course, reading it again, it's clear that this isn't the case. Hmm, now I'll just have to figure out what the heck I've been thinking.

I've done that before! Before my last D&D session I would have sworn backwards and forwards that the Nightmares Made Real invocation did 10 damage if you failed the save. Turns out it was only 1d6, but the DM was upset at me for not doublechecking. Oops. :smallwink:

Frosty
2008-08-19, 07:18 PM
No, Eldritch Blast is a seperate power, but you can take Quicken SLA (Voracious Dispelling) then use your standard action to invoke Baleful Utterance. The problem is you won't qualify for Quicken SLA until caster level 10ish, and by then you'll probably have better options for an attack routine. And, like I said before, anything worth expending that many action resources to destroy would better off as part of your WBL allotment rather than so much dust at the enemies feet.

Shatter/Baleful Utterance is more of a fun utility spell, something you use to solve all kinds of problems. In combat, you'll be blasting and manuevering around for a Glaive attack... oh yeah, you'll want to ask if Eldritch Glaive from Dragon Magic is allowed. It lets you be a serious melee threat once you get to BAB 6+. That's what I'd trade from your Summon Swarm Invocation, actually.

My character really isn't the melee type. Besides. We're starting at level 3. I wouldn't worry about it for along time. I just want to be able to holdmy own right now. sure I can spam Stunning Glance, but that'd be boring.

Dhavaer
2008-08-19, 07:21 PM
Fun! I just noticed that people fit the 'single solid object' limits described and are within the weight limits most of the time. Look out world! Only the overweight will be spared! :smallbiggrin:

People are creatures, not objects. Objects are a game defined term; you'd have to kill someone before you could shatter them.

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-19, 07:24 PM
My character really isn't the melee type. Besides. We're starting at level 3. I wouldn't worry about it for along time. I just want to be able to holdmy own right now. sure I can spam Stunning Glance, but that'd be boring.

Well, you're level 3, so the magic item limitation on shatter isn't a big deal at the moment. Just have fun with it.

Maybe you can be a half-Nymph that believes covering one's self is the root of all evil, so you use Baleful Utterance to remove everyone elses clothing as they fight? Warlocks can be extremely powerful Eldritch Blast cannons, but there's room for all different specializations and roleplaying opportunities.

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-19, 07:29 PM
People are creatures, not objects. Objects are a game defined term; you'd have to kill someone before you could shatter them.

You have a point. :smalltongue:

Heh. Quicken SLA (Baleful Utterance) and use it whenever someone dies from your Eldritch Blast. ELDRITCH DISINTEGRATION RAY!!!

Frosty
2008-08-19, 07:40 PM
Well, you're level 3, so the magic item limitation on shatter isn't a big deal at the moment. Just have fun with it.

Maybe you can be a half-Nymph that believes covering one's self is the root of all evil, so you use Baleful Utterance to remove everyone elses clothing as they fight? Warlocks can be extremely powerful Eldritch Blast cannons, but there's room for all different specializations and roleplaying opportunities.

Tokiko Mima, you are full of win. ELDRITCH DISINTEGRATE FOREVER!

Wait, do clothing count as attended objects Every time I dissolve an article of clothing, they have to make a Will save or be dazed?

Chronicled
2008-08-19, 07:44 PM
Wait, do clothing count as attended objects Every time I dissolve an article of clothing, they have to make a Will save or be dazed?

Warlocks: The new kings of Strip Poker.

Collin152
2008-08-19, 07:50 PM
Warlocks: The new kings of Strip Poker.

Who were the old ones?

Chronicled
2008-08-19, 07:52 PM
Who were the old ones?

Those with access to spells from the BoEF, I guess?

Those with access to Mindrape don't get the mere title of "king" for these sorts of things.

Dhavaer
2008-08-19, 07:58 PM
Those with access to spells from the BoEF, I guess?

See, now I need to make an Eldritch Theurge with Fey Heritage feats, Vow of Nudity and lots of BoEF spells. :smallmad: Too many ideas...

Chronos
2008-08-19, 08:02 PM
Say, does anyone know if Warlocks qualify for the "Obtain Familiar" feat and whether Familiars are useful to warlocks at all? Can you "Share Invocations" instead of "Share Spell"?Obtain Familiar just requires a caster level, not the ability to cast spells. So yes, warlocks qualify. And I personally think that a familiar is worthwhile to anyone who can get one, but opinions vary on that.

Chronicled
2008-08-19, 08:06 PM
See, now I need to make an Eldritch Theurge with Fey Heritage feats, Vow of Nudity and lots of BoEF spells. :smallmad: Too many ideas...

And it should be a Half-Fey, or use Frosty's Half-Nymph template. Or, how about an Eldritch Disciple who not only refuses to wear clothing, but sacrifices other people's garments to their god? :smalltongue:

Frosty
2008-08-19, 08:58 PM
Obtain Familiar just requires a caster level, not the ability to cast spells. So yes, warlocks qualify. And I personally think that a familiar is worthwhile to anyone who can get one, but opinions vary on that.

But how would it help the Warlock in combat?

mabriss lethe
2008-08-19, 09:09 PM
But how would it help the Warlock in combat?

well if I remember correctly, you won't be able to use your familiar to deliver touch invocations or share invoks, but besides that, they'd be the same help and hindrance that any other familiar is. A little tougher, but not quite as useful. I'm not sure about that though.

And as a warlock, the Fey heritage feats are very good to have. Access to Improved DR, invoker level, some handy 1/day SLAs...

Collin152
2008-08-19, 09:10 PM
But how would it help the Warlock in combat?

Aid Another with UMD checks?

Chronicled
2008-08-19, 09:11 PM
But how would it help the Warlock in combat?

Who says it needs to be helping in combat? You could nab Improved Familiar if that's what you're worried about, or ask your DM very nicely if you can take the feat but get the Hexblade's shadow companion (PH2 alternate feature), which could tie in very well with a Warlock. Maybe not as easily for a fey-based one... but some refluffing could fix that.

Or, just with the basic feat being worthwhile, what fey doesn't have some cute animal helper following them about?

Chronos
2008-08-19, 09:23 PM
Aid Another with UMD checks?Unfortunately, UMD isn't subject to Aid Another. A familiar isn't particularly helpful in combat for a warlock, but I value out-of-combat utility higher than in-combat, to begin with.

Plus, they're really fun.

Frosty
2008-08-19, 09:25 PM
And as a warlock, the Fey heritage feats are very good to have. Access to Improved DR, invoker level, some handy 1/day SLAs...

1/day SLAs? The Fey heritage feats would duplicate a lot of SLAs I think. As a Half-Nymph with the Half-Fey template, I've already got these traits (and many SLAs):

+6 Dex, +4 Wis, +2 Int, +8 Charisma

Stunning Glance (Su): As standard, but duration only 1d4 rounds
Unearthly Grace (Su): As in

Gains Butterfly Wings if the base creature did not already have wings. Flying speed is 2x fastest normal movement with Good maneuverability.

Gains Low-Light Vision.

Immune to Enchantment spells & effects.

Charm Person, at will.

If Cha or Wis is 8+, can use the following abilities at least 1/day.
HD Ability
1-2 Hypnotism, 1/day; Faerie Fire –or– Glitterdust,1/day
3-4 Detect Law, 3/day, Sleep –or– Enthrall, 1/day
5-6 Protection from Law, 3/day; Tasha’s Hideous Laughter or Suggestion, 1/day
7-8 Confusion –or– Emotion, 1/day
9-10 Eyebite –or– Lesser Geas, 1/day
11-12 Dominate Person –or– Hold Monster, 1/day
13-14 Mass Invisibility, 1/day
15-16 Geas/Quest –or– Mass Suggestion, 1/day
17-18 Insanity –or– Mass Charm, 1/day
19+ Otto’s Irresistible Dance, 1/day


Or, just with the basic feat being worthwhile, what fey doesn't have some cute animal helper following them about?

What familiar do you suggest? Anyone got stats of a bunny?

Chronicled
2008-08-19, 09:29 PM
What familiar do you suggest? Anyone got stats of a bunny?

I've seen a hummingbird written up that gave a +4 bonus to initiative. Plus, it's a hummingbird.

Otherwise... go with what you think is cutest/most fey-ish I guess. A butterfly, kitty, bunny, monkey... whatever floats your boat.

Collin152
2008-08-19, 09:31 PM
What familiar do you suggest? Anyone got stats of a bunny?

Use Weasel stats. It's a vorpal bunny.

mabriss lethe
2008-08-19, 09:39 PM
Fey heritage, aside from being the access point to the rest of the fey heritage feats, nets you a +3 unnamed bonus to will saves vs. Enchantment effects. but you're immune to that aspect at least. Really, the only reason to have it is to gain access to the other feats.

fey skin improves your DR/cold iron and stacks with both race and class based sources and that improvement increases with every Fey heritage feat you take. Amazing for a warlock

Fey power improves your warlock's invoker level by 1

Fey legacy gives you confusion, d-door, and summon nature's ally V The only duplicate here is confusion.

Fey presence gives you charm monster, deep slumber and disguise self, none of them are directly on your list (though you could find a reasonable substitute for most of them in many situations)

Frosty
2008-08-19, 10:02 PM
Fey heritage, aside from being the access point to the rest of the fey heritage feats, nets you a +3 unnamed bonus to will saves vs. Enchantment effects. but you're immune to that aspect at least. Really, the only reason to have it is to gain access to the other feats.

fey skin improves your DR/cold iron and stacks with both race and class based sources and that improvement increases with every Fey heritage feat you take. Amazing for a warlock

Fey power improves your warlock's invoker level by 1

Fey legacy gives you confusion, d-door, and summon nature's ally V The only duplicate here is confusion.

Fey presence gives you charm monster, deep slumber and disguise self, none of them are directly on your list (though you could find a reasonable substitute for most of them in many situations)

I guess I need to compare it to what I might be missing out on if I take those instead of other feats. What else might a warlock want?

Leon
2008-08-19, 10:02 PM
No, 3.5 Warlocks are quite clearly fluffed with demons only. That's why they have that alignment restriction. Obviously it can be changed fairly easily. I also made a warlock that took into account pacts with other creatures (it's in my sig).


They open with a nice bit of text on what power sources can drive a warlock then forget all about that and go hells bells into its all evil powered. however its not to hard to keep the same class features/Invocations and just rename them something more fitting.
Although then they carry on the "your still a evil thing" that everyone distrusts automatically in the later splat books

Frosty
2008-08-19, 10:29 PM
Anyone know how much Gold a Warlock starts with? I can't find it in Complete Arcane

Chronos
2008-08-19, 11:18 PM
I guess I need to compare it to what I might be missing out on if I take those instead of other feats. What else might a warlock want?The other big feat to watch out for is Extra Invocation, but you won't be able to qualify for that until 6th level (since the extra invocation must be of a lower grade than the highest you have, so you need at least Lesser invocations to get it at all). Other than that, there aren't any real pressing needs for warlock feats.


And where's Burly, anyway? He's usually all over these threads.

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-20, 02:09 AM
I guess I need to compare it to what I might be missing out on if I take those instead of other feats. What else might a warlock want?

My Standard list is
Weapon Finesse (but only if you plan on heavy Eldritch Glaive use. It lets you dump Strength)
Flyby Attack (super awesome if you use cover, it's Spring attack without all the prerequisites, but better because it lets you use a standard action at any point, rather than an attack.)
Supernatural Transformation (Eldritch Blast) (get this one ok'ed by your DM. It makes your EB an Su ability... so it's immune to spell resistance checks!)
Empower SLA (EB)
Maximize SLA (EB)
Quicken SLA (EB) (these last three are awesome and add up to 1.5 to 2x damage when used. They're even better together.)
Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest) (only take this if you plan to go Hellfire Warlock and get it approved with your DM first)

kamikasei
2008-08-20, 05:34 AM
No, 3.5 Warlocks are quite clearly fluffed with demons only. That's why they have that alignment restriction. Obviously it can be changed fairly easily. I also made a warlock that took into account pacts with other creatures (it's in my sig).

As Leon says, WotC obviously think of the Warlock as pretty much demonic, but this is not enforced by the original class. The alignment restriction is any chaotic or any evil, which allows both Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil warlocks, neither of which are the least demonic. Nor are they very strict about the source of the power: it could be that you're descended from a powerful being, but it could also be that you have made a pact with one or are descended from someone who did so. It's pretty wide-open.

(And all else aside, wouldn't the existence of the Hellfire Warlock contradict the "demons-only" idea anyway? Isn't it fluffed as associated with Mephistopheles?)

Burley
2008-08-20, 07:42 AM
If I recall correctly, the three Meta-SLA feats can't actually be used in unison. You can only apply one at a time, and it may be (this is purely from my spastic memory) only one per round. But, don't take my word for it.

As for the Fey/Fiendish thing, the original fluff in the Complete Arcane does, in fact, say that Warlocks can get their powers from Fey or Fiends. If I recall, Fey represents the "Any Chaotic" prereq, and the Fiendish is the "Any Evil" part. That's just a wild guess on my part...I wouldn't really know how that works.

If you want good feats: the Fey Heritage feats (from Complete Mage) are fantastic, and if you're wanting to be the party face, these help a lot. On top of giving you extra DR/Cold Iron, they'll also give you more SLAs usable x per day, and boost the save DC for your invocations. If you're looking for a really really good invocation, there's one (Complete Mage, maybe C.Scoundrel...can't remember honestly) that lets you steal the targets appearance and deal 2d6 charisma damage to them. Perfect for infiltration, and then bluffing them into believing the real one is a liar. Bwahahaha! I never got to use that one, though...

Tokiko Mima
2008-08-20, 09:03 AM
If I recall correctly, the three Meta-SLA feats can't actually be used in unison. You can only apply one at a time, and it may be (this is purely from my spastic memory) only one per round. But, don't take my word for it.

That might be true as they were written in MM1, but in MM3 they update Quicken SLA to be a swift action instead of a once a round free action, and Empower SLA to require no action whatsoever. Maximize SLA remains a little quirky, but it specifically mentions it's ability to be applied at the same time as Empower SLA. :smallamused:

Stupendous_Man
2008-08-20, 09:19 AM
http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=16640

warlock fun!