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shadow_archmagi
2008-08-20, 10:06 AM
So, regular skeletons and zombies are like, CR -2. How do I bring them up without having a bunch of velaciraptor zombies or cloud giant skeletons running about?

I need a way to have humanoid undead about CR 6 or 7...

I'm having people "disappear" from a train and re-appear later as attack minions.

JMobius
2008-08-20, 10:08 AM
Libris Mortis has a few interesting templates to add to undead.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-08-20, 10:10 AM
Arbitrarily raise their HD.

The Libris Mortis templates are good, but won't get you CR 6 or 7, really.

You can also use the Bone Creature and Corpse Creature templates from BoVD. I don't think they need much reworking for 3.5 - maybe changing DRs or something.

Talanic
2008-08-20, 10:22 AM
I think the Spawn of Kyuss is in that area. It's in one of the monster manuals, but watch it--the party could be in for some SERIOUS hurt, especially if there are non-combatant bystanders.

They're apocalypse-class zombies capable of converting an enemy with a touch attack to hit them with a worm. If the enemy doesn't pull the worm off, then they're dead within a minute or two and immediately rise as another spawn of Kyuss.

Recaiden
2008-08-20, 10:24 AM
You know, i'm pretty sure that those train passengers happened to have anywhere from 2-10 HD right? And they are also have the fast and unkillable templates. Templates. (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf)

Lots of hit dice can raise a zombie to a base CR of 6 or 7. The templates i mentioned add 1 and 1/2.

Jimp
2008-08-20, 10:43 AM
I think the Spawn of Kyuss is in that area. It's in one of the monster manuals, but watch it--the party could be in for some SERIOUS hurt, especially if there are non-combatant bystanders.

They're apocalypse-class zombies capable of converting an enemy with a touch attack to hit them with a worm. If the enemy doesn't pull the worm off, then they're dead within a minute or two and immediately rise as another spawn of Kyuss.

Spawn of Kyuss, Monster Manual 2, page 186. CR 5 with some nasty abilities including throwing worms that burrow into peoples' brains, devour their intelligence and turn them into more spawns, fear aura, a disease that 'manifests as dementia', fast healing and turn resistance. Oddly enough though, Remove Curse and Remove Disease turns them into 'normal zombies' which I guess means human commoner zombies. Overall they are pretty awesome.
Urge to run zombie game with Spawn of Kyuss. . .Rising. . .

The Demented One
2008-08-20, 10:50 AM
There's a Ghoul template linked through my signature that could pretty easily provide a tougher zombie template. Just give the NPCs a few class levels, slap on the template, and you're good to go.

xPANCAKEx
2008-08-20, 12:35 PM
better zombies? pfffft, who needs better zombies? what you need is MORE zombies ;)

but a zombie dire rabbit would be rad. a HOARDE of zombie dire rabbits... now that would be a thing of DM genius

DeathQuaker
2008-08-20, 12:40 PM
Or just put them in a Desecrated or Unhallowed area.

ocato
2008-08-20, 02:28 PM
If you're looking for a group of humanoid undead to cause some trouble to your PCs beyond shambling after them and moaning, consider a group of Wights. They have that old fashioned transform foes into allies via murder strategy, and they advance quite nicely with some classes added on. Also, they speak common and have human intelligence, so a few wight rogues led by a wight sorcerer could effectively be right under the party's nose posing as people, killing and using random train passengers as a whittling force until they opt out of their illusions/disguises and strike. Also, Wights would have feasible reasons for doing this (wanting money for X or power for Y, since they have the mind for profit and power that zombies typically lack.)

As for zombies, just add some HD or use a better base creature (like a troll or goliath or something). Honestly, zombies don't really Rodger my Hammerstein.

Doresain
2008-08-20, 02:48 PM
a bloodthirty diseased fast hunting unkillable zombie half-elf (who was a level 10 ranger when i killed him) armed with a +1 flaming longsword and beefed up with corpsefrafter and nimble bones might have been a 2 HD creature, but he took on another level 10 ranger and level 10 wizard, as well as a level 7 halfling fighter and human rogue...of course, their were 6 nimble 1 HD skeletons armed with falchions and an allip fighting them as well, but i still almost killed that group with incredibly low level undead

and this is why im no longer allowed to apply templates to the undead i create :smallannoyed: