Arena Tournament, Round 34: Lumi vs. Drago vs. Cyn vs. Chili IV

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 34: Lumi vs. Drago vs. Cyn vs. Chili IV

Map

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b30/Kyeudo/GlassArena.jpg


Awards:
1st: 1200XP and 1100GP
2nd: 400XP and 500GP
3rd: 200xp and 200GP

Morbius - Lumi (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=29696)
Kyeudo - Drago Irakwa (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=29621)
Stupnick - Cyn (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=41483)
chilepepper - Chile IV (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=10467)


All combatants, please roll initiative.

[chilepepper]

[roll0]
Hrmm... what to buy...
edit: more rolls like that please!

[Morbius]

Here is Lumi's
[roll0]

Since my last match I have bought:
Chronocharm of the uncaring archmage
2x CLW potion

All already on sheet

For starters I am also buying a potion of shield of faith


EDIT: Oh yeah, I will also buy a Scythe and some lightning gauntlets (from MIC)

[stupnick]

rolling initiative

[roll0] wow what a roll!!!!


purchases pending


Chile, your HP is off, you should have 1 less. b/c of quick a result of 0 is possibly.. so there is no minimum of 1 like your sheet suggested.

[chilepepper]

Fixed.7890

edit: Well, I'm definitely first, and Lumi is second.

Purchases:
Adding to my scroll - Invis x3, See invis, Exp.Retreat
2 sleepsmoke (crafted)
Wand of Launch Item 25 charges
Fountainhead bolt
2 Tanglefoot bag

And I'll start in M1 with a scroll in hand

[Morbius]

Hummmm, someone opened the see invisibility cookie jar... I will wait for the others to buy as well before responding to that also where is "Fountainhead bolt" from?


PS: I wish I already were level 6... you would need a caster level check even to see me with see invisibility

[chilepepper]

Hummmm, someone opened the see invisibility cookie jar... I will wait for the others to buy as well before responding to that also where is "Fountainhead bolt" from?

See invis isn't to see you. The bolt is from MIC.

[Morbius]

See invis isn't to see you.

Realllllyyyy? May I ask for what it is then?

[stupnick]

the see invis i would assume is so he can read his scrolls while invisible.


purchases for now, more pending
feather token (tree) 400g

[Morbius]

Ok... only Kyuedo is missing right?

Humm... anyway I will also buy 2 scrolls of see invisibility and depending on the answer to this I will also buy some caltrops.

What kind of action it is to spread caltrops on a square? Move or standard?

[Kyeudo]

Sorry for holding everyone up. Things have been busy for me lately.

Initiative:[roll0]

I'm away from my books at the moment, so I'm not sure what Soulmelds I'll want up or purchases I should make. Seriously, I'm the only one in this match that isn't packing invisibility.

[stupnick]

i have no invis : )

[Kyeudo]

I stand corrected.

[Kyeudo]

Alright, finally got some time to do my character's shopping. I'm buying +1 Magic Armor, a Potion of Owl's Wisdom, and a Potion of Shield of Faith +2. They seem my best bet for getting through this match alive.

I'll start in M25, with my shield and a potion in my hand. I'm wearing a gold crown and apparently grew a beard in the past ten minutes. Ready whenever you are.

Soulmelds

Shedu Crown (Bound to Totem Chakra)
Rageclaws
Wormtail Belt
Dissolving Spittle (Target of Expanded Soulmeld Capacity)


Stats:

Hp: 17/17
AC: 22 Touch: 13
Saves: Fort+7 Ref+3 Will+2
Location: M25

[stupnick]

i begin in Z14, with my token and a javalin in one hand and a javalin in the other

[Morbius]

What kind of action it is to spread caltrops on a square? Move or standard?

I just need an answer to this before I make my last round of purchases

[Morbius]

Ok.. so no caltrops, insted I will buy a vial of antitoxin, a Grappling hook and Silk Rope


Lumi starts on A14 with a grappling hook tied to a knotted rope on one hand and a scroll on the other


refs only scroll of invisibility


Stats block coming soon

[chilepepper]

Chile starts with his tent in M1-N1, him in M1.

Round 1 - Chile

Lumi, refs
I have a scroll in hand, I move south, breaking LoS

refsTaking a 5' step to N1, hiding while I move [roll0]

Cast See Invisibility from the scroll
DC 4 CL check [roll1]
DC 5 Wisdom [roll2]


Cyn, with a DC21 spot check
You see me move to N1 and read a spell from a scroll

DragoI just didn't want to leave you out.

Not done.

stats
HP: 7/7
AC: 17 t15 f12
Effects: See Invisibility 1/300
Position: N1, hiding

Spells: 5W,5S / 4W,4S / Ice Knife
Scroll: True Strike, Shield, Invis, Invis, Invis, See Invis, Exp Retreat


Done. Lumi's turn.

[stupnick]

spot check so i can look at a spoiler : )

why is mine the only one that has pre-req's : p

[roll0]

[Morbius]

Chile:
I didn't understand you entered the tent or what?



Lumi 2nd to act - round 1


Lumi drops his grappling hook and casts a spell
attempts to cast invisibility
[roll0]vs DC 8

Not done


Lumi stats (refs only)

Location: A14
HP: 14/14
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: 14, Touch 14, Flat-footed 10
Saves: Fortitude +0, Reflex +4, Will +2
Attacks: -4 Scythe(2D4-1)/x4, +5 alchemist fire
Held: 2x invisibility scroll , 4x alchemist fire, 1x silent image scroll, Manacles w/ simple lock, Chronocharm otUA 1/1, 2x CLW potions, Lightning gauntlets 4/4, 2x Scroll of see invisibility, Grappling hook, 1x vial of antitoxin
Effects:
Spells: 6x 0-level , 6x 1st-level, 1x 2nd level
Reactive rolls:
[roll1]
[roll2]

[Morbius]

Lumi disapear from your sight and...


Refs only or anyone that can see invisibility
Lumi moves to G14

Also since I got those nice rolls I don't happen to see Chile do I?


Done

[Kyeudo]

Drago

Swift action to allocate Essentia, standard to drink the potion, and then move to M17, drawing my second potion as I do.

Stats:

Hp: 17/17
AC: 23 Touch: 13
Saves: Fort+7 Ref+3 Will+7
Location: M17

Buffs
Owl's Wisdom 30/30

Essentia Allocation
Shedu Crown: 2
Rageclaws: 1
Wormtail Belt: 1
Dissolving Spittle:
Cerulean Will: 1

[chilepepper]

@MorbiusI imagine it as a 5x10 tent that's open on the two 5' edges. That's how I used it in my last round. So, when I started, you could see in the tent in the square I was in. I moved south to the square in the tent you couldn't see.

@Kyeudo
How do you have enough actions to draw the potion?

[Kyeudo]

Draw or Sheathe a Weapon
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.

If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.



I believe potions were ruled to be sufficiently weapon-like in a previous match and I have a +1 BAB, so drawing the potion is a free action as part of the move action.

BTW, how did Chile go invisible? I don't see that noted in your visible actions.

[chilepepper]

No, you specifically ruled them to be not weapon-like. I even remember someone saying, "What if I buy a vial of acid, dump it out, then fill it with a potion?" You said, "Then by RAW it'd be a potion, not a vial of acid."

The only 'creative' option that went unchallenged was using sovereign glue to affix a potion to a grenade weapon, draw the weapon and drink the other side.


edit: and I'm not invisible, I'm hiding in my tent, which is probably more grey/green/brown than RED, but it made the contrast easier.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii295/shaun_rp/tent.jpg

[Kyeudo]

I make so many rulings I don't remember them all anymore. So I don't draw the second potion.

BTW, that soverign glue trick would work, except you would need to use match time to set it up. Which would negate the advantage.

[chilepepper]

See edit above.

You can try a spot check if you like. If it's over 20 and you have LoS, you might see me.

[Kyeudo]

I'm a little confused. What rules loophole allows you to set up a tent before a match?

[stupnick]

once that get's figured out i will post my turn.

[chilepepper]

There are no rules for how long it takes to setup tent, or any reference to a tent being not setup. The only RAW about a tent is that it sleeps 2 comfortably. That's why I assume it's 5x10. By RAW, a tent is always setup. One that is not setup cannot sleep two comfortably, and therefore does not agree with RAW. I just carry it into the arena in it's default state.

[Kyeudo]

Very mavianesque. Let's get this game going then.

[stupnick]

Cyn

Standing in Z14, i will activate my feather token in my square, which now puts me in z14 +60ft, i do believe because of the diameter at the top i would have complete cover relating to all of you


i will drop my javalins on top of the tree. to be recovered at a later time.
climb down into the tree to gain total cover against everyone.
[roll0]
i will be at Z11, +55 ft





A token that causes a great oak to spring into being (5-foot diameter trunk, 60-foot height, 40-foot top diameter). This is an instantaneous effect.


stats

Location Z11/+55ft
HP: 30
AC: 10 T: 7 F: 11

[Morbius]

I am not sure that you would have total cover stupnick... I would think you would get cover from the trunk and concealment from the leaves, I will need to look at my books later to be sure...

But since we are on the rules interpretation topic we all agre that antitoxin works on the sleepsmoke DC right? (at least chile already did agree on that)

[chilepepper]

Sleepsmoke is listed as a poison and follows all the characteristics of a poison. Antitoxin gives +5 fort against poison.

And I agree about the tree. The trunk is listed as a diameter, therefore it does not have hard corners. That would make it soft cover.

As for the top of the tree, common sense would say you can see through the foliage and it too would only provide soft cover, but RAW isn't always common sense. An interesting tactic though, looking forward to seeing how this gets ruled.

[Morbius]

Now.. the real question is what happens to a guy holding on a tree branch at 60 feet high that suddenly is target of a sleep spell...

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Statistics for a 60 foot oak don't exist in RAW, to the best of my knowledge. Which brings us to ruling what exactly a tree is. Sigh.

Thus, if everyone has no objections:


1) Trunk provides Cover.
2) Upper Foliage provides Cover, as per a web spell, with approximately the same area of effect. (20 ft radius = 40 foot diameter). This means that 5 feet of upper foliage will provide cover, and 20 feet will provide total cover.

Web seems to be the closest similar effect I can find to solid objects which do not provide total cover, but still have the potential to block shots.

Soft cover, as listed in the SRD, applies to creatures. While I think it would normally be a good thought, the upper branches of a tree have branches, which are solid wood, and ostensibly must be stood on to prevent falling. Such branches seem about in line with cover.

Does this seem accurate/appropriate?

And weigh ins from both players and refs is welcomed.

[Kyeudo]

I just want to know the Climb DC of that tree.

EDIT: And does that cover bonus apply in reverse?

[Morbius]

From the SRD:


Trees
The most important terrain element in a forest is the trees, obviously. A creature standing in the same square as a tree gains a +2 bonus to Armor Class and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves (these bonuses don’t stack with cover bonuses from other sources). The presence of a tree doesn’t otherwise affect a creature’s fighting space, because it’s assumed that the creature is using the tree to its advantage when it can. The trunk of a typical tree has AC 4, hardness 5, and 150 hp. A DC 15 Climb check is sufficient to climb a tree. Medium and dense forests have massive trees as well. These trees take up an entire square and provide cover to anyone behind them. They have AC 3, hardness 5, and 600 hp. Like their smaller counterparts, it takes a DC 15 Climb check to climb them.

[Talic]

I would say that it applies both ways. I've looked through trees from the top and the bottom, and yup, branches block view both ways.

[Kyeudo]

Since that's settled, I believe it is Chilepepper's turn.

[chilepepper]

I'm confused about the tree, but that's okay, I'll just burn it down when the time comes.

((edit:Oh, I misdrew my tent, it should be in the 1 column per my post))

Round 2 - Chile

So, I'm pretty sure no one can see me, but just in case, I'll format my spoilers to account for that possibility.

Read from my scroll
refs onlyInvisibility.
CL [roll0] (sweet, confirming crit [roll... oh wait)
Wisdom [roll1]

I disappear.

Not done.

refs onlyMove north to F1. Hide (if needed, a ref can roll this for me, since it's after an edit, it'll be broken if I roll it, +22)

stats
HP: 7/7
AC: 17 t15 f12
Effects: See Invisibility 2/300
Invis 1/30
Position: F1, hiding

Spells: 5W,5S / 4W,4S / Ice Knife
Scroll: True Strike, Shield, Invis, Invis, Invis, See Invis, Exp Retreat


Done. Lumi's turn.

[Morbius]

Cyn
Don't post your actions yet, I am delaying my turn, but Drago doesn't need to know about that:smallwink:




Lumi 2nd to act - round 2

Delay turn to act after Drago but before Cyn




Done


Lumi stats (refs only)

Location: G14
HP: 14/14
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: 14, Touch 14, Flat-footed 10
Saves: Fortitude +0, Reflex +4, Will +2
Attacks: -4 Scythe(2D4-1)/x4, +5 alchemist fire
Held: 2x invisibility scroll , 4x alchemist fire, 1x silent image scroll, Manacles w/ simple lock, Chronocharm otUA 1/1, 2x CLW potions, Lightning gauntlets 4/4, 2x Scroll of see invisibility, 1x vial of antitoxin
Effects: invisibility 19/20
Spells: 6x 0-level , 6x 1st-level, 0x 2nd level
Reactive rolls:
[roll0]
[roll1]

[Kyeudo]

Drago

Draw and drink another potion. 5-ft step to M16. End of turn.

Stats:

Hp: 17/17
AC: 25 Touch: 15
Saves: Fort+7 Ref+3 Will+7
Location: M16

Buffs
Owl's Wisdom 29/30
Shield of Faith 10/10

Essentia Allocation
Shedu Crown: 2
Rageclaws: 1
Wormtail Belt: 1
Dissolving Spittle:
Cerulean Will: 1

[Morbius]

My two non stats spoilers on my post above are public for anyone now

Hummm this match is not going as I expected... but let's see what I can do about that


Lumi 2nd to act - round 2(cont)

Lumi casts a spell

casting message on Drago and then moves silently to G8
[roll0]


spellcraft DC 15 to anyone that wants to know what I am casting:
casting message

Drago
You hear a little voice on your head:
Oh come on, what are you two waiting for, just go in that tent there and what whack that guy already...

anyone else may make a listen check DC 22(at least) to read this
You hear Lumi whispering:
Oh come on, what are you two waiting for, just go in that tent there and what whack that guy already...



Done


Lumi stats (refs only)

Location: G8
HP: 14/14
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: 14, Touch 14, Flat-footed 10
Saves: Fortitude +0, Reflex +4, Will +2
Attacks: -4 Scythe(2D4-1)/x4, +5 alchemist fire
Held: 2x invisibility scroll , 4x alchemist fire, 1x silent image scroll, Manacles w/ simple lock, Chronocharm otUA 1/1, 2x CLW potions, Lightning gauntlets 4/4, 2x Scroll of see invisibility, 1x vial of antitoxin
Effects: invisibility 18/20
Spells: 5x 0-level , 6x 1st-level, 0x 2nd level
Reactive rolls:
[roll1]
[roll2]

[stupnick]

Cyn


Actions

i will take a move action to move back to z14, taking 10 on climb check for 18
I will hide where I am
[roll0]



stats

Location Z18/+55ft
HP: 30
AC: 10 T: 7 F: 11

[chilepepper]

Spellcraft [roll0]

Lumi, refsI have See Invisiblity up.

What is your position?
Who did you point at when you cast message?

Oh and, DC 22 what?

[Morbius]

Spellcraft [roll0]

Lumi, refsI have See Invisiblity up.

What is your position?
Who did you point at when you cast message?

Oh and, DC 22 what?

Chile my bad it was a 22 DC listen check, fixed it now

Hey I don't remember you taking silent spell, how are you casting spells whitout granting at least listen checks? AFAIK a little tent is not a large stone wall

and if you are out of your tent
Lumi was on G14 when he casted and now he is at G8 and the spell was directed to Drago

and Cyn are you sure we don't have LOS to you?

[chilepepper]

refsMorbius inquired about listen checks to notice I'm casting spells, which I forgot. So, there's the +15 for through a wall (or multiple walls), +5 for through a door (tent maybe), and +1 per 10' of distance. So that's six listen checks, each at different DCs dependant upon their location relative to the tent. I believe we all have spellcraft trained, so those will need to be rolled as well, for each successful listen check. If anyone passes, they may want a rewind, maybe not.

[stupnick]

it would need to be determained by the ref's.. but if i have 20ft of cover as you said i am total concealed, so no you can't...

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

@Refs: 2 oversights (castings).

Spell 1 violation - Chile at N1 - See invis. tent cover
Opponents at:
Cyn - Z14 (95, glass wall)
Lumi - A14 (95, glass wall)
Drago - M25 (120, Glass wall)

Spell 2 violation - Chile at N1 - Invis. tent cover.
Opponents at:
Cyn - Z14 +60 (125, foliage)
Lumi - G14 (80, glass wall)
Drago - M17 (75, glass wall)

Ranges are in parentheses, along with any modifiers.

I do believe that glass walls are not up to the DC of stone walls, but they will block sound. This is more in keeping with a door. Effect of the tent is negligible as there is no DC in the listen SRD entry that corresponds to it, even roughly, and I'm not gonna be making one up, Distance will be modified. Base check to hear someone speaking is DC 0.

This means that the following DC's apply

Violation 1:
Cyn: DC 24 (9 distance, 15 wall) [roll0]
Lumi: DC 24 (9 distance, 15 wall) [roll1]
Drago: DC 27 (12 distance, 15 wall) [roll2]

Violation 2:
Cyn: DC 12 (Distance 12, no wall) [roll3]
Lumi: DC 23 (Distance 8, Wall 15) [roll4]
Drago: DC 22 (Distance 7, Wall 15) [roll5]

Before Anything above is official, I want to take the opportunity to post the closest parallels I find to the DC modifiers for listen checks. The DMG does state that basic world principles not outlined in the RAW are assumed to be the same as we know them. It cites the example of a round earth. Based on this, I can't reconcile glass walls to have the same DC modifiers as stone walls. The closest parallel I see is a door. Any objections to this?

@EDIT: Regardless of whether the DC modifier of glass if objected to and later agreed on as +15 modifier or +5, there may need to be a rewind of the match. Possible information that could impact match decisions has been denied to players. Once the impact of the above has been hashed out, then we'll figure out exactly what needs to be done, in terms of rewinds, and continuations.

[chilepepper]

I vote DC 15 since the glass wall, like a stone wall, is a solid contiguous obstacle unlike a door which is not a contiguous piece. Plus, if we're pulling real world equivalents, there is such a thing as sound proof glass, and this particular glass wall has more hit points than it would if it were plain ordinary glass. Whatever Talic decides, though, is fine with me.

refsBTW

A successful Listen check allows you to tell the general
location of or direction to the sound. If understanding the
actual content of a sound is important, beating the DC by 10
allows you to do so, assuming you can otherwise understand
that content. Beating the DC by 20 allows you to pinpoint
where a sound is coming from.
They don't get a spellcraft, or even know it's a spell, unless they beat it by 10. They just hear me talking.

[Talic]

Sound proof glass isn't the same as glass. The arena states glass. I'll give others the chance to weigh in on it with their thoughts. Either way, I will need followup information from multiple players before determining how much information that needs to be relayed.

[Kyeudo]

I'd go with the stone wall interpretation myself. It makes the most sense to me.

[Talic]

Ok, going with +15.

@Lumi:In Chile's 1st turn (post 18), you would have heard speech from the general area of the last place you saw him. Would this have changed or affected any action you took?

@Cyn:In Chile's 2nd turn, you would have heard speech from the general vicinity of the tent. Would this have changed or affected any action you took?

@Drago:In Chile's 2nd turn, you would have heard speech from the general vicinity of the tent. Would this have changed or affected any action you took?

[stupnick]

@refs

nope not at all

[Morbius]

refs

(sigh) no changes

[Kyeudo]

Refs

Nope. Him talking is just another reason for me to run him over.

If he was casting a spell and I heard him well enough to make out what he was saying:
Spellcraft check:[roll0]
Nevermind, don't bother figuring that out.


You know, we use an aweful lot of spoilers for fighting in a glass arena. :smallamused:

[chilepepper]

Assuming we're not rewinding, the current order is
Chile
Drago
Lumi
Cyn
It's my turn in the top of round 3. I'm just waiting for the okay from a ref.

[Talic]

@Kyeudo:Listen checks were not enough to identify words.

No rewind required. Continue as normal. Glad to help.

[chilepepper]

Round 3 - Chile's turn

Move to A1, cast Launch Item with sleepsmoke at F8/G9. [roll0] only miss on a 1.
Miss [roll1] - 1 is NW

A cloud of Sleepsmoke spreads, covering F8/G9. Lumi needs to attempt a DC15 fort save; failure = fall unconscious for 10 rounds.

Chile then becomes visible in A1, holding a scroll.

stats
HP: 7/7
AC: 17 t15 f12
Effects: See Invisibility 2/300
Invis 1/30
Position: A1

Spells: 5W,4S / 4W,4S / Ice Knife
Scroll: True Strike, Shield, Invis, Invis, Invis, See Invis, Exp Retreat


Done. Drago's turn.

[Morbius]

Ref and chile only
[roll0]
*crosses fingers*
EDIT: boop

[chilepepper]

It is Drago's turn.

[Kyeudo]

Drago

Full-Round action to trample my way to C6. Anyone who happens to be invisible in those squares takes (IIRC) [roll0] damage, Reflex save for half (DC 15) or you can take an AoO at a -4 penalty. I'm afb right now, so I'll double check when I get home.

Squares affected:

M15
L14
K14
J13
I12
H12
G12
F11
F10
E9
D8
C7
C6


Stats:

Hp: 17/17
AC: 25 Touch: 15
Saves: Fort+7 Ref+3 Will+7
Location: C5

Buffs
Owl's Wisdom 28/30
Shield of Faith 9/10

Essentia Allocation
Shedu Crown: 2
Rageclaws: 1
Wormtail Belt: 1
Dissolving Spittle:
Cerulean Will: 1

[chilepepper]

Is that spoiler player friendly?

[Kyeudo]

The squares affected are. It's just the movement path I took.

[chilepepper]

Isn't that 85' of movement?

[Kyeudo]

My count has it coming out to 16 total squares worth of movement. Only J13, F11, and D8 count for double.

[Morbius]

Isn't a trample like a charge that needs to be made in a straight line?

[chilepepper]

You're starting in M16, you have to have include L or M 15 in your movement.

[chilepepper]

Isn't a trample like a charge that needs to be made in a straight line?

No, it's just a double movement

[Kyeudo]

You're starting in M16, you have to have include L or M 15 in your movement.

I five foot stepped to M15 during the turn I drank my second potion.

EDIT: oops, I was mistaken. I only end up in C6, not C5.

[Morbius]

Lumi 3nd to act - round 3


Chile, refs
Go away Drago and Cyn
continues to sleep on G8 ZZZzzzz



My bad forgot I am after Drago now.

Done


Lumi stats (refs only)
Go away Drago and Cyn

Location: G8 (prone, helpless)
HP: 14/14
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: 14, Touch 14, Flat-footed 10
Saves: Fortitude +0, Reflex +4, Will +2
Attacks: -4 Scythe(2D4-1)/x4, +5 alchemist fire
Held: 2x invisibility scroll , 4x alchemist fire, 1x silent image scroll, Manacles w/ simple lock, Chronocharm otUA 1/1, 2x CLW potions, Lightning gauntlets 4/4, 2x Scroll of see invisibility, 1x vial of antitoxin
Effects: invisibility 17/20
Spells: 5x 0-level , 6x 1st-level, 0x 2nd level
Reactive rolls:

[stupnick]

i believe i am up??

Cyn



hide check [roll0]



stats

Location Z14/+55ft
HP: 30
AC: 10 T: 7 F: 11

[Morbius]

Yes, and if you are done now it's chile

[chilepepper]

Round 4 - Chile

Read from scroll
CL [roll0] DC 4
Wis [roll1]


Not done.

[chilepepper]

Round 4 - Chile - continued

I disappear.

Move Silently [roll0] to H3 via the A line. -5 for movement.
Listen will be that DC +2 for distance until I get to A4, then it jumps to +17 and gets higher from there because of the wall and increasing distance.

I'll be hiding while I move, [roll1]

stats
HP: 7/7
AC: 17 t15 f12
Effects: See Invisibility 4/300
Invis
Invis 1/30
Position: H3, hiding, moving silently, invisible

Spells: 5W,4S / 4W,4S / Ice Knife
Scroll: True Strike, Shield, Invis, Invis, Invis, See Invis, Exp Retreat


Done. Drago's turn. Make listen, spot, and/or spellcraft checks if you like. Info is in this post for refs, or if you leave the checks unspoilered, I'll gladly tell you what you glean.

[Kyeudo]

Drago

I assume that the spellcraft check will merely reveal that you cast invisibility from a scroll, then moved away, but I'll make the check anyway.
Spellcraft:[roll0]

Spot:[roll1]
Listen:[roll2]

Since those checks likely won't reveal anything specific enough to use, full-round action to trample my way to D1 unless I hit something. Anyone who happens to be invisible in those squares takes [roll3] damage, Reflex save for half (DC 15) or you can take an AoO at a -4 penalty, but not both.

Squares affected:

C5
C4
C3
D3
E3
F3
G3
H3
I3
I2
I1
H1
G1
F1
E1
D1


Stats:

Hp: 17/17
AC: 25 Touch: 15
Saves: Fort+7 Ref+3 Will+7
Location: D1

Buffs
Owl's Wisdom 27/30
Shield of Faith 8/10

Essentia Allocation
Shedu Crown: 2
Rageclaws: 1
Wormtail Belt: 1
Dissolving Spittle:
Cerulean Will: 1

[chilepepper]

Jerk......
[roll0]

I had to take poor reflexes as a flaw, grumble grumble. I'm out.

[Kyeudo]

Sounds like I got lucky.

BTW, how long does that sleep smoke you tossed hang around for?

[chilepepper]

Round 1 - 5' radius
Round 2 - 10' radius
gone on the third.

Anyone affected is unconscious (not asleep) for 10 rounds and then has to make a secondary save or be unconscious for 1d-something minutes.

[Morbius]

One gone, now I will just wait you two to kill each other

Lumi 3nd 2nd to act - round 4


Go away Drago and Cyn
continues to sleep on G8 ZZZzzzz



Done


Lumi stats (refs only)
Go away Drago and Cyn

Location: G8 (prone, helpless)
HP: 14/14
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: 14, Touch 14, Flat-footed 10
Saves: Fortitude +0, Reflex +4, Will +2
Attacks: -4 Scythe(2D4-1)/x4, +5 alchemist fire
Held: 2x invisibility scroll , 4x alchemist fire, 1x silent image scroll, Manacles w/ simple lock, Chronocharm otUA 1/1, 2x CLW potions, Lightning gauntlets 4/4, 2x Scroll of see invisibility, 1x vial of antitoxin
Effects: invisibility 17/20
Spells: 5x 0-level , 6x 1st-level, 0x 2nd level
Reactive rolls:

[stupnick]

Cyn


I will pull out two alchemist fire potions. in addition to that i will then attempt to hide afterwards.
[roll0]


stats

Location Z14/+55ft
HP: 30
AC: 10 T: 7 F: 11

[Kyeudo]

Drago

One caster down, one to go. :smallamused:

Since that sleep smoke should have evaporated this turn, time to see if Chile got anyone with it.

Full-round action to trample my way to B9. Anyone who happens to be invisible in those squares takes [roll0] damage, Reflex save for half (DC 15) or you can take an AoO at a -4 penalty, but not both.

Squares affected:

C2
C3
C4
D5
E6
F7
F8
G8
G9
F9
E9
D9
C9
B9


Stats:

Hp: 17/17
AC: 25 Touch: 15
Saves: Fort+7 Ref+3 Will+7
Location: B9

Buffs
Owl's Wisdom 26/30
Shield of Faith 7/10

Essentia Allocation
Shedu Crown: 2
Rageclaws: 1
Wormtail Belt: 1
Dissolving Spittle:
Cerulean Will: 1

[Morbius]

Jerk......


there we go[roll0]

can someone unconscious even make reflex saves?

[Kyeudo]

Well, I found these:



Sleeping creatures are helpless. Slapping or wounding awakens an affected creature, but normal noise does not. Awakening a creature is a standard action (an application of the aid another action).




Helpless
A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (-5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks gets no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.


Nothing indicates you wouldn't get a save, but it does say you have an effective Dex of 0, so I imagine that will hurt.

[stupnick]

well the other problem is, your not sleeping, your unconsious.. nothing wakes you up except the duration.

[Kyeudo]

well the other problem is, your not sleeping, your unconsious.. nothing wakes you up except the duration.

I think getting run over also dispells most sleep effects. If it doesn't dispell this one, Lumi is going to go down for the count fairly fast.

[Morbius]

Lumi 2nd to act - round 5


Go away Drago and Cyn
continues to sleep on G8 ZZZzzzz



Done


Lumi stats (refs only)
Go away Drago and Cyn

Location: G8 (prone, helpless)
HP: 3/14
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: 14, Touch 14, Flat-footed 10
Saves: Fortitude +0, Reflex +4, Will +2
Attacks: -4 Scythe(2D4-1)/x4, +5 alchemist fire
Held: 2x invisibility scroll , 4x alchemist fire, 1x silent image scroll, Manacles w/ simple lock, Chronocharm otUA 1/1, 2x CLW potions, Lightning gauntlets 4/4, 2x Scroll of see invisibility, 1x vial of antitoxin
Effects: invisibility 16/20, unconcious 8/10
Spells: 5x 0-level , 6x 1st-level, 0x 2nd level
Reactive rolls:

[stupnick]

Cyn

actions

attempt to hide[roll0]
[roll1] to tell where my opponents could be



stats

Location Z14/+55ft
HP: 30
AC: 10 T: 7 F: 11

[chilepepper]

I think getting run over also dispells most sleep effects. If it doesn't dispell this one, Lumi is going to go down for the count fairly fast.

Cyn is correct, misnamed, Sleepsmoke actually causes unconsciousness. Anyone affected won't wake up.

I also found nothing indicating you can't make reflex saves while unconscious, though the -5 dexterity mod pretty much sinks you.

[Kyeudo]

Drago

Looks like I found Lumi.

Full-round action to trample my way to G12.
Damage: [roll0] DC 15

Squares affected:

C9
D9
E9
F9
F8
G8
G9
G10
G11
G12


Stats:

Hp: 17/17
AC: 25 Touch: 15
Saves: Fort+7 Ref+3 Will+7
Location: G12

Buffs
Owl's Wisdom 25/30
Shield of Faith 6/10

Essentia Allocation
Shedu Crown: 2
Rageclaws: 1
Wormtail Belt: 1
Dissolving Spittle:
Cerulean Will: 1

[Morbius]

refs only
[roll0]


EDIT: Third place it is then, I was crossing my fingers for a 20 ¬¬

[Kyeudo]

You should still be alive. The most damage I could have dealt you would put you at exactly 0 hit points, which is only staggered, not unconcious. Of course, I'll fix the problem next turn, so I'll understand if you want to duck out now.

[Morbius]

Anyone who happens to be invisible in those squares takes (1d8+4)[11] damage



Damage: (1d8+4)[5] DC 15

With a -5 modifier I needed a natural 20 to make any of the saves and no I didn't get any and since I have 14 HP, unless I made some mistake I am at -2

[Kyeudo]

You're right. For some reason I thought I only did 9 damage the first time.

Guess it's time to start dealing with a guy up a tree.

[stupnick]

Cyn

actions

attempt to hide [roll0]
listen - [roll1] to tell where my opponent could be



stats

Location Z14/+55ft
HP: 30
AC: 10 T: 7 F: 11

[Kyeudo]

Drago

Time to cut down a tree. :smallamused:

Double move to R17. Swift action to reallocate Essentia. Free action to grin evilly. :belkar:

Stats:

Hp: 17/17
AC: 25 Touch: 15
Saves: Fort+7 Ref+3 Will+5
Location: R17

Buffs
Owl's Wisdom 24/30
Shield of Faith 5/10

Essentia Allocation
Shedu Crown:
Rageclaws: 1
Wormtail Belt: 1
Dissolving Spittle: 2
Cerulean Will: 1

[stupnick]

Am i to assume that with my 18 listen check i would hear where you are at?

i would need to know that information for my turn.

[Kyeudo]

I am niether hiding, not moving silently, nor do I have full cover or full concealment. You can see me. Take your best shot.

[stupnick]

Alright, well i figured since i have concealment/cover vs you, you would have the same vs me and i would need to make a listen check to know where you were. but the DC would only be at the most 10+distance, which would be under 18.

Cyn

Throwing an alchemist fire at you.
[roll0] (not sure if you would have any cover bonuses for me throwing it through the branches of the tree...
[roll1]

if miss
direction [roll2] 1 being N
squares [roll3] if 1 you still take 1 splash

I then draw out a flask of acid

stats

Location Z14/+55ft
HP: 30
AC: 10 T: 7 F: 11

[chilepepper]

Thrown weapons have a range increment of 10' and a maximum range of 5 increments. That means you can't throw it more than 50'. When it reaches the maximum range, it stops per the Arena rules.

Also, when throwing a grenade weapon and missing, you roll a d8 for direction and then count the number of squares in that direction equal to the range increment (not 1d6 squares).

[Morbius]

Not so High Ref Morbius (in this match at least)

refs only
alchemist fire has a range increment of 10 feet, throw weapons maximum range are five range increments thus Drago should be out of it's reach since Cyn is on a very tall tree.

IF we treat this as an aerial bombardment instead it should be able to hit but I don't know the rules for that yet or even if we should tell Cyn about that:P

EDIT: Gah! Damn... ninjas... ugh
Anyway check above spoiler Chile

[chilepepper]

refs onlyI'm the one using aerial bombardment in another match. That particular use of the rule hasn't been abused yet. I predict an interpretation of bombardment to hold true to the fact that you're dropping an item and valid targets will be directly below or 1 square away, since those are the squares you can normally drop in. However, unless Cyn comes up with that on his own, we don't have to worry about it yet. We CANNOT tell him, since it is forbidden for a ref to suggest tactics.

He's making a ranged attack. I believe according to the Arena rules, whatever square the AlchFire is above when it reaches 50' of travel is the square it's going to land in.


Even though there is no ceiling on many maps, you cannot shoot arrows over walls without a special ability to do so. It may be parabolic motion in your physics class, but in the arena, all ranged effects are straight lines that extend to their maximum range and then abruptly stop.

When it reaches maximum range it stops; and drops. It was in thinking out a way to abuse this rule that I discovered aerial bombardment, but I digress.

The question, is the attack legal since the declared target was out of range? I think no, but we'll just let the contestants decide, or escalate to official reffage.

note on Morbius's and my authority in this match (we don't have any)
refs only, incl. MorbiusThis is spoilered, because the combatants might not have thought of this.

Even though we're out of the match technically, we still can't take official ref action. Our inventory is still fair game to the remaining combatants. Expendable items like potions could be used and lost to our PCs. That creates a conflict of interest. However, I don't see any problem in just pointing out rules, as we've done so far.

[Bayar]

Refs only:
This is the arena. Where you need to specify exactly what laws of physics you are using, or otherwise choose the one that suits you.

[Kyeudo]

Looks like you'll need to redo your turn.

I do have cover vs you, from the glass pillar if not from the tree branches.

[Talic]

Ref Talic

I believe the upper branches were ruled to provide total cover for positions noted.


Total Cover

If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover.

Attack action is illegal.

Also, note that a player not moving silently generally has a listen DC of 0 (as best I can determine, at least). Modify for distance, and then add +20 to pinpoint by sound (pinpoint = identify the square a sound is coming from). That means, if you are atop the tree, and drago is directly beneath you at a distance of 60 feet, the DC required to pinpoint his location with a listen check would be 26. If he's farther out, and requires diagonal down and away movement, that distance could increase (+1 for every 20 feet away horizontally, up to 60 feet, then +1 for every 10 feet after that). Other modifiers can apply (such as working with east/west/north/south diagonals, and Up/down/horizontal diagonals at the same time).

[stupnick]

that is why i asked if i knew where he was, he stated yes..

well then cyn sits there and does nothing.

now, question.. can i drop it, and since i am not attacking with it, it no longer has it's maximum range. but when it hits the ground it would still explode.???

[Talic]

that is why i asked if i knew where he was, he stated yes..

well then cyn sits there and does nothing.

now, question.. can i drop it, and since i am not attacking with it, it no longer has it's maximum range. but when it hits the ground it would still explode.???

@Refs:This question was brought up in the exact same manner in the exact same way in the Waiting Room, I believe, and was ruled to follow aerial bombardment rules to determine whether anyone below was hit. Should these rules be used here? If that is the case, then the attack target is a square with total cover, and you can't make an attack against a target with total cover. Thus, would such an action be against RAW?

Other refs, please share comments and opinions. The above spoiler is open to refs in this match who have been eliminated, as I'd like to get as many interpretations as I can get on this one, before making the ruling.

[chilepepper]

refsAerial bombardment or not, the path the projectile takes is still a straight line. If there's total cover/concealment that is solid, the projectile isn't going to make it to the ground before it hits something. It seems RAW agrees.

The other issue is, if he makes states he's going to make a ranged attack, then his attack must be governed by those rules (10' range, max 5 increments). If he wants to use an aerial bombardment attack, he has to state that.

Here's the problems I see. Aerial bombardment targets a square at AC5, but splash weapons target an intersection at AC5 or a target in a square at that target's AC. 5' splash on an intersection includes 4 squares; 5' splash on a square includes 9 squares. With aerial bombardment, does the splash weapon automatically break, or do you have to roll falling damage (and is hardness/hp even statted for splash weapons)?

[Talic]

@ All:

Here's as best as we've found.

1) You cannot attack an area with total cover relative to you. This includes anything at ground level below the tree.

2) Total cover is provided by the tree, however, no individual square grants it. If a person moving through the branches failed the DC 15 climb check by 5 or more, they would fall. So will items. As no individual square is providing the cover required to stop the object, no individual square will. However, as this is not an attack, it will not follow attack rules for the weapon in question. The item would fall as per any object of its weight, and impact the ground. It will take falling damage, and also deal damage per weighted falling objects, providing it hits a target. It will not react in a manner consistent with how alchemist's fire reacts when thrown in an attack, as it would not be an attack. This is much in the manner of dropping bolts doesn't destroy them (they are destroyed when fired)

[stupnick]

so dropping a vial of alchemist fire from 40+ feet won't break it and cause it to explode? is that what i am understanding.

[chilepepper]

According to RAW, if you drop Alchemist's Fire, which weighs 1#, it has to fall at least 70' before it takes 1d6 damage. If it only falls 65', it takes no damage and won't break.

[stupnick]

ok, well as i said above, i sit there and do nothing this round.

ref's

now, in the description of the tree


Originally Posted by SRD
A token that causes a great oak to spring into being (5-foot diameter trunk, 60-foot height, 40-foot top diameter). This is an instantaneous effect.


now nothing says the "head" of the tree where the foilage is, how is that. according to the post. the tree is 60 ft high, and 40ft wide at top. is the tree just like a T or is it Y where the top of the y is closed.

if it is the Y, how far down do the leaves go?

oh and how much damage would my opponent take if i fell/jumped on him?

and how would that be calculated?

[Kyeudo]

Drago

Well, here's where things get interesting. Since you can't attack me and I can't attack you, due to full cover, I'm going to move to T16 and attack the tree (bottommost 5 ft section).

One 5ft section of your tree has 600 hitpoints, hardness 5, and an AC of 1 (10 base -5 for Dex 0 -2 for being inanimate -2 for being at least a huge sized object).

Unless circumstances change sometime before the tree comes down, I will continue to attack the tree each round. Since I only miss on a natural 1, I didn't bother to add my attack bonus to the attack roll. Acid damage does full damage to objects, but doesn't bypass hardness.

20 attack and damage rolls:

Attack:[roll0]
Damage:[roll1]

Attack:[roll2]
Damage:[roll3]

Attack:[roll4]
Damage:[roll5]

Attack:[roll6]
Damage:[roll7]

Attack:[roll8]
Damage:[roll9]

Attack:[roll10]
Damage:[roll11]

Attack:[roll12]
Damage:[roll13]

Attack:[roll14]
Damage:[roll15]

Attack:[roll16]
Damage:[roll17]

Attack:[roll18]
Damage:[roll19]

Attack:[roll20]
Damage:[roll21]

Attack:[roll22]
Damage:[roll23]

Attack:[roll24]
Damage:[roll25]

Attack:[roll26]
Damage:[roll27]

Attack:[roll28]
Damage:[roll29]

Attack:[roll30]
Damage:[roll31]

Attack:[roll32]
Damage:[roll33]

Attack:[roll34]
Damage:[roll35]

Attack:[roll36]
Damage:[roll37]

Attack:[roll38]
Damage:[roll39]

Attack:[roll40]
Damage:[roll41]


Stats:

Hp: 17/17
AC: 25 Touch: 15
Saves: Fort+7 Ref+3 Will+5
Location: T16

Buffs
Owl's Wisdom 24/30
Shield of Faith 5/10

Essentia Allocation
Shedu Crown:
Rageclaws: 1
Wormtail Belt: 1
Dissolving Spittle: 2
Cerulean Will: 1

[stupnick]

waiting on response to my question earlier from the ref's, then i will post.

just for correction as posted earlier by Talic. the tree has an AC of 3 : )

also how do you do 3d6 damage from 10 feet away continuously?

[Kyeudo]

I suppose that if you considered only the 5 ft section it would meet the definition of a medium size object and thus have an AC of 3. Still, I only got two 1s and a single 2, so most of those are going to be hits.

I can continuously deal 3d6 acid damage thanks to my Dissolving Spittle Soulmeld and a feat. Only has a 30ft range, but then 30 ft is usually good enough.

All told, the tree section will take 102 damage over those 20 rounds unless you do something to change it.

[stupnick]

well considering it has 600 hp to eat through it and knock it down that will take a while to do.

but before i can do anything i need to get the answer from a ref

[chilepepper]

unofficial ref chilepepper

CynYou don't have weights listed on your character sheet for your equipment, but I'm guessing your stuff weighs less than 170#. Therefore, you'd deal 1d6 per 10' fallen. You'd have to make a ranged attack with a -4 since you are an improvised weapon. You'd have to hit AC 5, and your target would get a reflex save DC15 to avoid the damage entirely.

[stupnick]

ref's

and about how the tree looks and how far down the foilage actually starts?

[Talic]

Very simple tree, as discussed earlier:Top measure bar lost its reference tag. Should be 40 feet.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w85/maharai23/tree.jpg

Lighter area (upper foliage) can be climbed through without penalty. Trunk can be climbed around. As the listed DC for climb in the tree description was 15, that applies to all areas of the tree.

This provides a tree with the dimensions specified (60 feet tall, 40 feet wide). I can place an overhead view on the game map if you need one.

[stupnick]

Cyn

well, I will let you get in those 20 attacks against the tree..


while he is doing that i will move over above his square at +60ft, taking 10 gives me an 18.


once you complete what you have listed i will then rage and attack you : )


[roll0] +5str, +2 bab, +2 rage, -4 improvised weapon vs AC 5

throwing myself out of the tree at you, you get a dc 15 reflex save to avoid

I take [roll1] damage
you take [roll2] damage if you fail the dc 15 reflex save.

and i believe it is your turn.

not sure how we are to handle us both being in the same square.

Stats

Location Z16
HP: 30/30 (- the damage i took above)
Rage HP: 4/4
AC: 8 T: 5 F: 9
duration 1/10

[stupnick]

oh i guess since you are on your horse he also takes damage.
[roll0]

[Kyeudo]

You are quite mistaken about the horse. I've only used him twice that I can recall. This match is not one of them.

Reflex Save:[roll0]

[Kyeudo]

Drago

Since I made that save, I dodge the damage and I assume I am displaced to an adjacent square. I'll go with T15 for that.

Now that you've half killed yourself for me, time for the fun to start. 5 ft step to T14, draw my morningstar, and attack with Dissolving Spittle.

Touch Attack:[roll0]
Damage:[roll1]

Stats:

Hp: 17/17
AC: 23 Touch: 13
Saves: Fort+7 Ref+3 Will+5
Location: T16

Buffs
Owl's Wisdom 4/30

Essentia Allocation
Shedu Crown:
Rageclaws: 1
Wormtail Belt: 1
Dissolving Spittle: 2
Cerulean Will: 1

[stupnick]

sorry, i thought that was how you were trampling..

well now that backfired majorly..lol

Cyn




i will throw an alchemist fire at you.
[roll0]
[roll1]

then i will draw out a vial of acid, so i have 1 alchemist fire, and 1 acid flask in my hands.



Location Z16
HP: 6/30
Rage HP: 4/4
AC: 8 T: 5 F: 9
duration 2/10

[Kyeudo]

Drago

It's the new beard that allows me to trample people. I'd demonstrate, but it's more efficient to boil you in acidic saliva.

Attack with Dissolving Spittle.

Touch Attack:[roll0]
Damage:[roll1]

Stats:

Hp: 11/17
AC: 23 Touch: 13
Saves: Fort+7 Ref+3 Will+5
Location: T16

Buffs
Owl's Wisdom 4/30

Essentia Allocation
Shedu Crown:
Rageclaws: 1
Wormtail Belt: 1
Dissolving Spittle: 2
Cerulean Will: 1

[stupnick]

i believe that get's me.. b/c of rage i only have a 5 touch ac

[Kyeudo]

Good game, man. Although next time you shouldn't try that tree trick without a way down.

[stupnick]

i was just trying to get away from 3 spellcasters..LOL

[Kyeudo]

Drago doesn't really qualify as a spellcaster. He's more of a flexible mid range skirmisher. I had to take extreme countermeasures to the actual spellcasters.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Drago is the victor!
Cyn gets honorable mention as Runner up!
Lumi gets a not-so-honorable mention as 3rd place!
Chile IV gets to savor the feel of being trampled into the Dirt!