OOTS #586 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Dumbledore lives]

Great Comic, can't wait till the next one.

[tenguro]

Agree. Although it be a shame if they were killed.

[kpenguin]

Yay Therkla!

I might actually be disappointed when Elan turns her down again.

[Ashtar]

Tadaaa! Action, Drama, Suspense! This is better that peanut butter!

Thanks Giant!

[Laurentio II]

Wow. Politic intrigues during a demon fight. Why I found this more funny than puns?

[lemonhoney]

Wow.

This is the first comic to give me chills since 448. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html)

[El_Frenchie]

Mawesome!

Please, they can't possibly let the mommy and daddy die! They're just too cute to die! I shall forever hate Qarr and Kubota if even one of them dies :smallmad:

edit: Oh, wait! Daigo is still saving his family name just in case! There is hope!

[Mc. Lovin']

Oh wow, that's pretty climactic, nice one!

[Laurentio II]

Mawesome!

Please, they can't possibly let the mommy and daddy die! They're just too cute to die! I shall forever hate Qarr and Kubota if even one of them dies :smallmad:
Pregnant mothers can't die, it's a rule (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InfantImmortality). It requires an author that likes to mess with his audience, and with superior writing skills to handle such a dire moment to readers.
Do you think Mr. Burlew would do such a thing as making fun on children sufferance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0549.html)?

...

...

Ok, the baby is done for it.

[Trizap]

oh no.............

please Luck, let the Mauve Shirts live.......

[Bedinsis]

:smalleek: no...

Not Kazumi & Daigo, I like them!

[Lex-Kat]

Go Therkla! Go!! She's going to give Hinjo a real good reason to pardon her.

[Sebastian]

Agree. Although it be a shame if they were killed.

No problem, I mean, there are 8 ninja if not more, it will be a cakewalk. :)

[HellFireXS]

Nice! I really like Threkla and I'm glad shes on the right side now :)

With Belkar too sick to fight we need a new character that does good things in a bad way.

[Narses]

NOooo!
Daigo still has his last name though :D

[Sebastian]

Mawesome!

Please, they can't possibly let the mommy and daddy die! They're just too cute to die! I shall forever hate Qarr and Kubota if even one of them dies :smallmad:

edit: Oh, wait! Daigo is still saving his family name just in case! There is hope!

The children is still nameless, tho :smalleek:

[Paragon Badger]

Pregnant mothers can't die, it's a rule (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InfantImmortality). It requires an author that likes to mess with his audience, and with superior writing skills to handle such a dire moment to readers.
Do you think Mr. Burlew would do such a thing as making fun on children sufferance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0549.html)?

...

...

Ok, the baby is done for it.

Qarr may have kicked the dog (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Kickthedog)... but will he succesfully rape it? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/rapethedog)

[Sharoth]

Go team Blue side! Go Elan and Therkla! Save the baby, save the world. ~Grins~

P.S. - Sebastian, are you the same Sebastian that is over at the Paizo.com forumns?

[Justyn]

Well, my birthday is sure off to a good start! :smallbiggrin: And is it just me, or is the Giant's avatar different? Or was this brought up before, and I am just noticing it now?

Anyway I sense either a Big Damn Heroes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigDamnHeroes) moment or a Rape the Dog (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeTheDog) moment coming up. I really hope for the heroics. :smalleek:.


The children is still nameless, tho :smalleek:

The Children is nameless? Must... resist... urge to make... Evangelion joke... by... talking like... William Shatner.

[Tom90deg]

Uh oh...Looks like it may be time to whip out that last name!

[Sebastian]

Go team Blue side! Go Elan and Therkla! Save the baby, save the world. ~Grins~

P.S. - Sebastian, are you the same Sebastian that is over at the Paizo.com forumns?

Nope, I don't think I'm even registered there, beside I use a different handle on RPG forums.

[Sharoth]

~grins~ Well, then it is nice to meet you, Sebastian!

[Otempora]

Kazumi is going to have to go into labor soon. It's too dramatic for her NOT to.

[Mercenary Pen]

Wow!

I knew the giant could pull convoluted stuff out of nowhere, but I hadn't been expecting it just now... Reckon Daigo's gonna have to use his last name, holding the line against a swarm of ninjas (yep, ninjas come in swarms, just like flies and wasps), until such time as Elan and Therkla get there.

This leaves Vaarsuvius, Durkon, Hinjo and Lien taking on the big extraplanar monster... Which I guess will be defeated as follows:

Durkon's gonna need to take it on... I'm expecting Thor's Might as a bare minimum, but I think in the end he'll need to get a quick miracle from Thor, just to even the odds enough.

[alfredbester]

Cool.

Pardon my forgetfulness, but do we know who the mom-to-be and dad are in the last frame?

Kaplah!

edit: I should be a bit more specific... what ballpark of strips were they from? I need a refresher. :)

[Evil DM Mark3]

I doubt they are in danger. If we add Infant Immortality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InfantImmortality) to The Inverse Ninja Law (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjitsu?from=Main.InverseNinjaLaw) which was already lampshaded (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContinuityNod) in this comic (back at the battle for Azure City) then factor in the fact that we are dealing with an Azure City version of a Duke (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AristocratsAreEvil) and the two of them took their level in badass long, long ago, (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TookALevelInBadass)and heroes are already trying to get there. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JustInTime)

[Victor Thorian]

oh no, the drama.

[Evil DM Mark3]

edit: I should be a bit more specific... what ballpark of strips were they from? I need a refresher. :)

I think the first time we see them is when a certain Halfling is suggesting firing them out of a siege engine so they get spattered on the walls and allow the PCs to judge the correct angle of fire to allow the PCs and Hinjo to get to the tower quickly during the battle of Azure city.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Please! Not another mis-carriage arc! Once a year is ennough in the world of Webcomics!

[Laurentio II]

Please! Not another mis-carriage arc! Once a year is ennough in the world of Webcomics!
*blink* ehm... where the other, is... ?

[Tundar]

Therkla just scored a major hit on my awesome list.

Even her kicks are awesome:
"nuts!"
Take that for non lethal damage. Ouch!

[Neopolis]

This is ominous... I don't want them to die. :<

[HOLEkevin]

Insomnia… too tired to read oots… exposition feel like gum in my brain… kill the baby… it'll be funny, I promise…

[Echowinds]

*blink* ehm... where the other, is... ?

Probably referring to Ctrl-Alt-Del's.

[MasterDinadan]

Cool.

Pardon my forgetfulness, but do we know who the mom-to-be and dad are in the last frame?

Kaplah!

edit: I should be a bit more specific... what ballpark of strips were they from? I need a refresher. :)

You should probably remember them as the pair of guards that accompanies Hinjo, Elan, and Durkon as they escape to the docks in Azure City.

This is their first appearance (well, they could be any of lookalike AC guards in previous comics, but this is the earliest we can be sure that it's them)
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0455.html

Some of their more memorable scenes from Azure City:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0472.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html


Daigo also accompanied Hinjo and Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0553.html) to try to make peace with the orc tribe
and Kazumi, already showing her pregnancy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html), was waiting back at the fleet.

[warmachine]

In politics, nobles who are suspected of murdering other nobles tend not to attract votes from other nobles. After all, if other nobles can become acceptable targets, you can become the next target. Suspicion of killing pregnant women is even worse. Someone who breaks taboos is likely to break other taboos and then the game of social advancement is really nasty.

But it seems Kubota calculates that murdering these particular nobles won't create revulsion with the other nobles. This suggests the incumbent nobles don't like commoners promoted to their ranks and are quite happy with such upstarts meeting a grisly end. What stellar human beings!

[alfredbester]

Ahah! Of course. Thanks friends... now I will continue rereading strips to help my plot knowledge. :)

[Borris]

Kazumi is not going into labor so soon. Given the time that has passed since the fall of Azure City, she cannot be more than about five or maybe six months pregnant, unless she already were before she and Daigo even had that cup of tea together.

And I don't think the ninjas are coming for them. Do they even know that they now have nobility titles? Rather, I believe thet're going after other nobles, who Kubota knows from before the fall that they would be loyal to Hinjo. With those Hinjo-supporters out of the way, it'll be that much easier to get the remaining nobles on the Council of Nobles to vote for him as the new lord.

Which means that Daigo (and less likely, Kazumi) might get to save the day without any PC help. If Elan and Therkla don't arrive fast enough, that is. And even then, it's only one PC.

[isamaru]

I doubt they are in danger. If we add Infant Immortality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InfantImmortality) to The Inverse Ninja Law (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjitsu?from=Main.InverseNinjaLaw) which was already lampshaded (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContinuityNod) in this comic (back at the battle for Azure City) then factor in the fact that we are dealing with an Azure City version of a Duke (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AristocratsAreEvil) and the two of them took their level in badass long, long ago, (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TookALevelInBadass)and heroes are already trying to get there. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JustInTime)

And THAT is what makes them dead :smallfrown:

[Fish]

Kaplah!
This may be a made-for-TV geek moment, but do you mean qapla'! as in the Klingon word "success"?

[Paragon Badger]

Kazumi is not going into labor so soon. Given the time that has passed since the fall of Azure City, she cannot be more than about five or maybe six months pregnant, unless she already were befoe she and Daigo even had that cup of tea together.

And I don't think the ninjas are coming for them. Do they even know that they now have nobility titles? Rather, I believe thet're going after other nobles, who Kubota knows from before the fall that they would be loyal to Hinjo. With those Hinjo-supporters out of the way, it'll be that much easier to get the remaining nobles on the Council of Nobles to vote for him as the new lord.

Which means that Daigo (and less likely, Kazumi) might get to save the day without any PC help. If Elan and Therkla don't arrive fast enough, that is. And even then, it's only one PC.

Kubuta knows, he was at the wedding in which Hinjo granted them a title. He was not pleased. :smallwink:

[Holammer]

Oooh action/suspense/drama! I hope there isn't any TvTropes convention that requires Therkla to die saving the day here.

[Last_resort_33]

he he... The genius in just writing "nuts" is great...

I'd nearly forgotten about those guys!

[SolkaTruesilver]

And THAT is what makes them dead :smallfrown:

Not at all. After all, Elan is there!! Genre savy, and his level in Dashing Swordman makes the whole genre heavily enforced.

One in a million chance.. eh!

[dish]

Well, more excitement's good. I guess.

[Laurentio II]

Oooh action/suspense/drama! I hope there isn't any TvTropes convention that requires Therkla to die saving the day here.
You means Heroic Sacrifice (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeroicSacrifice) or the more fitting Redemption Equals Death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath)?

PS: Holammer, I love your signature!

[Centurion_Cajun]

Question: Where are all of these ninjas coming from? There are a limited number of people on these boats. How many ninjas does he have stowed below with the rats?

I'm going to throw my vote in as well that the ninjas arn't after the happy parents to be. I say this because all of the ninjas seem to be running by their window and not...you know...coming through them. Kazumi will probably get involved in helping to defend Hinjo and get elevated even further.

[Devonix]

I hate to say it , I hate even more to think it though. I just can't shake the feeling that this is where :durkon: dies saving them from the Demon/Devil. It might just be the shock needed to snap V out of it or push em over the edge into full on Madness.

Also full on goofy out of the park guess. Wouldn't it be funny if Daigo happened to speak his last name. and it just so happened that he had a bit more of a connection to Hojo than we realized. A long lost familly member. ( Just tossing it out there. )

[Valley]

Oh, no. What will happen to the unborn monk?!?! NOOO!

Still, makes for a great hook. Now we have to see what happens in the next, oh, two or three days.

[DeepChild]

nuts! ROFL

[Lissou]

I hope everything will be fine... Maybe they can name the baby in time for it not to be killed? Maybe it's the emergency Daigo was keeping his last name for?
Hopefully, Therkla and Elan will save the day.
Plus I want to see a stick figure breastfeed :P

[Mauve Shirt]

Oh no! Daigo and Kazumi! And a baby monk!

I just noticed the "nuts" :smallbiggrin: Best sound effect ever.

[pendell]

Action! Not funny, but that's okay.

Who was it complaining about the pacing of the comic? Well, the pacing definitely just picked up.

So ... does this mean this particular sequence was in view from the moment Daigo and Kazumi got pregnant? I suspect so. The Giant sets up his Chekhov guns to fire long in advance.

I am really starting to enjoy the strip again. I must confess to being bored with this arc at the beginning, but the Elan/Therkla is rapidly moving towards a satisfying conclusion.

And I actually finally care about what happens to Therkla. I know she won't -- and shouldn't -- wind up with Elan. But the character has finally become really sympathetic in my eyes.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[chibibar]

That would be too cruel to kill off the mother or the father or the baby (that would be even worst!) I hope Elan will make it on time.

[Thufir]

I want to know what Elan's pun on 'thaumaturgy' was.

[Demonicbunny]

Come on. A bunch of ninjas vs two 6th level fighters (even if one of them is pregnant)?

My money is on Kasumi&Daigo.
Especially since it's not a singular black/white ninja

[Gamerlord]

*blink* ehm... where the other, is... ?
ctrl alt del.

Boy am i dumb, for a second i thought thelkra was gonna kill the tetiary targets but i read more carefully.

[DigoDragon]

Babies make interesting silent alarms for trouble. :smallwink:

[T-O-E]

I hope neither of them die, I like them all.

[teratorn]

Wow, Elan is genre-savy and Therkla is politics-savy. Ninja-girl and bard-boy really look cute working together. Nice to see how Therkla takes this siding-with-Elan thing so seriously.

[nowiwantmydmg]

Shouldn't Hinjo have summoned Argent?

[Kaytara]

Wonderful. :D Therkla shows what a true ninja is made of. Oh, and apparently two Redshirts are killed by the devil, as predicted.

I think the ninjas are definitely after Daigo and Kazumi. They're probably just sneaking toward the door to enter quietly. Also, it's the impression the last panel gives, and the next strip revealing that they weren't the targets would be rather anticlimactic.
Besides, all other nobles sailed away separately from Hinjo before the battle had started, so they probably aren't on the same boat with him.

The last panel makes me wonder how much time has passed, though. Kazumi looks like she may be well into her 6th or 7th month here.... She was already two months pregnant in 501, which is set four months after they leave Azure City. So does that mean that another 3-5 months have passed since then? :( Maybe the baby is just growing quickly, though...

[Blaznak]

Ooooh! The plot thickens! Nifty!

I like the healing potion working as they run, by the way. I thought it was a cool effect.

Good strip!
Later...

[Zone]

Don't you dare kill Daigo or Kazumi! >_<

Oh, and great strip, btw.

[Elfanatic]

Check out the 'nuts!' in panel 2. Nice sound effect.

Lets hope Therkla does the same to her former collegeaus (spelling?).

[SteveMB]

Go Therkla! Go!! She's going to give Hinjo a real good reason to pardon her.

She may get herself into a worse situation
totally burned bridges with Kubota, but still too stubborn to finger him

[Zolem]

No problem, I mean, there are 8 ninja if not more, it will be a cakewalk. :)

But once they get down to the last ninja....dashing swordsman dramati rescue moment.

[Laurentio II]

That would be too cruel to kill off the mother or the father or the baby (that would be even worst!) I hope Elan will make it on time.
Sorry for you, but fathers can die. It's a rule, like having a first name prevent you from being a red shirt, and showing a photo of your new yacht that you are going to sail as soon as you get in retirement means sure death.
Children are a legacy, so when you sire one, you lose every contractual immortality.

To summarize:
Elan : contractual immortality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContractualImmortality). He has a prophecy hanging (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EitherOrProphecy), and dying is not an happy end (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HappilyEverAfter?from=Main.HappyEnding).
Therkla : could die (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnyoneCanDie). As a former evil, she should know that Redemption Equals Death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath).
Kazumi Kato : until the baby is delivered, she is covered by Infant Immortality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InfantImmortality). But could be the most precious Rape the Dog (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeTheDog) moment, and this is dangerous for her. Only that, who would kill her? Unnamed thugs are unlikely, and we have no suitable villains in sight. Other then a possible Therkla's plan (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosGambit?from=Main.TheXanatosGambit) to kill at least the tertiary target in order to protect herself from Kubota's vengeance, or to gain the freedom, but it's a too long shot (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees).
Daigo : he has a son, could die (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisappearedDad?from=Main.DisappearedFather). It's a character loved enough to give drama to the comic with his death, and still not vital to the plot (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SacrificialLamb).
Hinjo : maybe at risk. You know, the powerful irony of a Pyrrhic victory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory).
Vaarsuvius and Durkon should be reasonably safe, due the fact that the party is already one member short.

[Kilbia]

I too was amused by "nuts!" as a sound effect.

And it took me a couple of read-throughs to realize that Therkla really WAS trying to help Hinjo's side. But reading comprehension has always been my weak suit - it's not a reflection of the author's skill.

[Shatteredtower]

Sorry for you, but fathers can die.In a series written by a fan of the J. Michael Straczynski school of writing, neither an infant nor a fetus should rely too heavily on that immortality clause, either. In fact, it might explain the kick; the kid might be trying to make a break for it. Overachievers these days -- trying to run before they can leave the womb...

[Deepkicker]

Gah! They can't be killed off...can they?

[Dervag]

As officially recognized Mauve Shirts (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MauveShirt), they can die. But they can only die in a plot-significant way. Which, unfortunately, this is.

However, they benefit from the law of conservation of ninjutsu, as alluded to elsewhere in the thread. Which we know applies in this setting (see strip 453 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html). Ideally, Daigo manages to hold off the ninjas long enough for Therkla and Elan to arrive, but not lethally enough for there to be only one left. If there's only one ninja, he's doomed.

[Kaytara]

I'm pretty sure Daigo's saved name will come into play here. I don't think they will die. This isn't Shakespeare, and it's still too early for them to die, anyway.

[Zephra]

Rich spent way, way too much time making them an adorable couple, showing that Diago will be a great father, and that they love each other. They're doomed.

[Fitzclowningham]

First, did that devil just cast Meteor Swarm at the good guys? Yikes!

Second, those ninjas are going after House Kato. The thing on the left of the last panel is a closet/hutch/armoire, not a door, so their going in the opposite direction doesn't mean anything. Daigo and Kazumi are loyal to Hinjo, who ennobled them, and they're aware their lord sees Kubota as an enemy.

We've already seen several (all?) of the other nobles break Hinjo him because they clearly have no confidence in his leadership. While Kubota may or may not know how the other houses would vote, he's pretty sure Daigo and Kazumi are against him, and have to be eliminated.

[dps]

You means Heroic Sacrifice (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeroicSacrifice) or the more fitting Redemption Equals Death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath)?


Shouldn't be necessary, if she and Elan get there in time. All she has to do is tell her ninjas to abort the mission.

[Axl_Rose]

I wonder how a battle between that Diablo-like creature and Xykon would play out. No doubt Xykon would win, but still, it'd be entertaining

[DrivinAllNight]

I think the strip just took off in a fast new direction, and people thought it was moving slowly :)

[AtomicKitKat]

I'm pretty sure Daigo's saved name will come into play here. I don't think they will die. This isn't Shakespeare, and it's still too early for them to die, anyway.

Ding. I think so too. Then again...

*Ninja stabs Daigo*
Daigo: Wait! My name is Daigo Kato D...*gets stabbed again multiple times* X_X

[Rogue 7]

Why on earth are they fighting this thing? Quarr made it abundantly clear: Kill all the mortals on this island. The devil really doesn't want to be there, so he'll most likely play The Literal Genie card (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LiteralGenie)- once the mortals are off the island, he doesn't have to kill them. Logical as Vaarsuvius is, he should catch that, and I'll be disappointed if he doesn't.

[Lamech]

To summarize:
Elan : contractual immortality. He has a prophecy hanging, and dying is not an happy end.
Therkla : could die. As a former evil, she should know that Redemption Equals Death.
Kazumi Kato : until the baby is delivered, she is covered by Infant Immortality. But could be the most precious Rape the Dog moment, and this is dangerous for her. Only that, who would kill her? Unnamed thugs are unlikely, and we have no suitable villains in sight. Other then a possible Therkla's plan to kill at least the tertiary target in order to protect herself from Kubota's vengeance, or to gain the freedom, but it's a too long shot.
Daigo : he has a son, could die. It's a character loved enough to give drama to the comic with his death, and still not vital to the plot.
Hinjo : maybe at risk. You know, the powerful irony of a Pyrrhic victory.
Vaarsuvius and Durkon should be reasonably safe, due the fact that the party is already one member short.
Potential SOD spoilers

Although what if Elan gets a Died Happily Ever After (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DiedHappilyEverAfter). We know there is a heaven for good characters, Shojo apperantly got one. Plus its a lot happier than being trapped in a gem forever, or having his soul eaten by Snarl. Hinjo, V, and Durkon all at extreme risk, that thing just dropped a meteor swarm, its probably a pit fiend. A single blasphamy would paralyze the lot of them, for long enough for Mr. Devil to stomp them all. I'm betting Hinjo is at the greatest risk of trying to beat the unstoppable Devil and throwing his life away, but V isn't thinking clearly right now either.

[disorder]

Let's hope that magazine-thing in Kazumi's hand is a book of baby names...

[Kaytara]

Ding. I think so too. Then again...

*Ninja stabs Daigo*
Daigo: Wait! My name is Daigo Kato D...*gets stabbed again multiple times* X_X

That would be morbid humour. It's happened before, but that kind of material is appropriate for established bad guys, like Belkar, Xykon and probably Redcloak. It's way too dark to just happen with nameless ninjas.


Logical as Vaarsuvius is, he should catch that, and I'll be disappointed if he doesn't.

Vaarsuvius was supposed to catch what a tiny imp squeaked about fifty feet up in the air, while Durkon was busy chanting buffs into his ear? Even for a character for whom Listen isn't cross-class, it'd still be a stretch.

[Jayngfet]

Awesome comic.

[Edan]

I wonder what impact 472 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0472.html) will have on the up coming comics. In 501 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html) it looks like he is saving his last name for something.

Has it ever been revealed? If not I really think he is going to try to get out of it with his last name only to die. Although I don't want him to die, I think he is going to buy the farm on this one.

[dragongirl13]

Oh my gosh! I hope they can save Kazumi and Daigo! Maybe Daigo will have to reveal his last name...

[Aeriander]

If you kill those two (three) off, I'll never forgive you. :smallfrown:

[chiasaur11]

Of course, we're ignoring an important fact here. Durkon can raise the dead. Even if the happy couple dies, well, death isn't CHEAP, but it isn't more gp than a nobel house could afford, at any rate.

[Selene]

Man, I actually gasped when I saw the ninjas outside K & D's window. :smalleek:

[David Argall]

Kazumi is not going into labor so soon. Given the time that has passed since the fall of Azure City, she cannot be more than about five or maybe six months pregnant,
Kazumi seems to be having a full term pregnancy that lasts 3-4 months, a form of magic a lot of women wish they had access to. [I suppose it balances out. In strips where the writer has a lot of pregnancy jokes on file, she can stay pregnant for years.] More precisely, we have a plothole here that the writer seems to be determined to make more blatant. Haley has apparently not even passed a month since Kazumi was 8 weeks along.
By strip evidence, Kazumi is a good seven months along, with 8-9 not out of the question. Given the limits of stick art and the variation between pregnancies, her giving birth in the next strip is not out of the question.


And I don't think the ninjas are coming for them. Do they even know that they now have nobility titles?
There was a very public ceremony, with Kubota, the ninjas' boss, angrily in attendance. So yes, they are entirely reasonable targets.



The devil really doesn't want to be there, so he'll most likely play The Literal Genie card- once the mortals are off the island, he doesn't have to kill them. Logical as Vaarsuvius is, he should catch that, and I'll be disappointed if he doesn't.
Logical as V is, she is aware that this is only one of many possible results, and since killing people qualifies as fun, the devil is likely not to get that literal in order to get out of the job. Besides, V prefers his magic spells.



dying is not an happy end.
This is not so definite. While we generally have a different opinion, Elan could deem dying a happy ending for him under a variety of conditions, such as his rescuing a pregnant Haley. Haley might have a more negative opinion about that, but the happy ending is only guaranteed for Elan.

[SteveMB]

Why on earth are they fighting this thing? Quarr made it abundantly clear: Kill all the mortals on this island. The devil really doesn't want to be there, so he'll most likely play The Literal Genie card (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LiteralGenie)- once the mortals are off the island, he doesn't have to kill them. Logical as Vaarsuvius is, he should catch that, and I'll be disappointed if he doesn't.

Er, I doubt that anybody on the ground heard Qarr's side of the conversation.

[T-O-E]

Of course, we're ignoring an important fact here. Durkon can raise the dead. Even if the happy couple dies, well, death isn't CHEAP, but it isn't more gp than a nobel house could afford, at any rate.

Is it even possible to raise a fetus?

[banjo1985]

Intesting comic...this can only end badly. :smallbiggrin:

[Grey Watcher]

Of course, we're ignoring an important fact here. Durkon can raise the dead. Even if the happy couple dies, well, death isn't CHEAP, but it isn't more gp than a nobel house could afford, at any rate.

A brand new noble house? Founded in the middle of a fleet of refugees? From commoner stock? Let's face, they may be nobility in the eyes of the law, but where would they have gotten a Vast Inheritance from, anyway? The only way they could afford a Raise Dead or two would be if Hinjo were to pay for it, and that'd mean less money for supplies for the other refugees.

As we've seen from Haley's half of the story arc, getting together that much cash isn't necessarily an easy thing in this setting.

[shadowpriest]

Probably referring to Ctrl-Alt-Del's.

yeah, that made me very sad nontheless :smallfrown:

[chiasaur11]

A brand new noble house? Founded in the middle of a fleet of refugees? From commoner stock? Let's face, they may be nobility in the eyes of the law, but where would they have gotten a Vast Inheritance from, anyway? The only way they could afford a Raise Dead or two would be if Hinjo were to pay for it, and that'd mean less money for supplies for the other refugees.

As we've seen from Haley's half of the story arc, getting together that much cash isn't necessarily an easy thing in this setting.

The money isn't Haley's problem here. She has the money. And House Kato is a favorite of Hinjo's, so if the diamonds are going to be used for anyone, they're good canidates.

[Ninja]

just came from a vacation, and read last 5-6 comics.... nice....

[shadowpriest]

erm... I think we are diverging a bit. speaking of how they will be raised is absolutely legitimate, but... they are still alive.
let's think about their resurrection if/when they die, shall we?
plus, I trust in Daigo's skill. he went in mission with Durkon and Elan, and survived (at least to tell Kazumi his adventures). while the wife is pregnant and therefore not capable of optimal battle, daigo is. I believe in him!
and I believe in Rich! SHOW US THAT WE'RE NOT DELUDED FANS! (please)

[Linkavitch]

Nice comic, Giant! Loved the ninjas outside the window in the last comic.:biggrin:

[Morgan Wick]

Interesting to wonder if Therkla is running to take part in the killing, or to stop it. And if the former, why she would even bother taking Elan.

Yes, I know that probably sounds dumb in light of Therkla deciding she'd rather quit Kubota's group than kill Elan, but don't count out Rich's propensity to swerve us.

[Tobimaro]

Interesting to wonder if Therkla is running to take part in the killing, or to stop it. And if the former, why she would even bother taking Elan.

Yes, I know that probably sounds dumb in light of Therkla deciding she'd rather quit Kubota's group than kill Elan, but don't count out Rich's propensity to swerve us.

My suspicion, having seen past comics, is that Therkla might still be loyal to Kubota, but her desire to get it on with Elan's 18 Charisma is overcoming her past loyalties. And if Elan gets to save the day, then (in her mind) he might be more inclined to repay her with some personal time together. :smallwink:

[Arcadius798]

wow, here i thought kubota was just some pompous jerk, but now, now i see he deserves the worst kind of death imaginable

[Bitzeralisis]

This does not bode well.

[Sebastian]

Shouldn't be necessary, if she and Elan get there in time. All she has to do is tell her ninjas to abort the mission.

Qarr have probably already alerted them and lord Kubota of her betrayal, tho.

but indipendently from how this specifc fight will end, I just thought about a possible development of the comic, it is a little out-of-the-blue but what could happen is ...

that Elan will kill Lord Kubota.

Think about it, the guy is not only threathening the life of Elan's friends, he is also putting the life of all the people of the fleet in danger for his ambitions to the point of allying with devils to reach his goals and yet he is untouchable, Therkla and his ninjas will never betray him, even because the later usually end dead before they have the chance to do it and there are absolutely no proofs against, his plan is almost perfect, but he forgot a little detail.

LORD KUBOTA: oh, and what this would be, if you can be so kind to tell me ?

ELAN: "I'm not lawful" *STABBITY-STAB*

LORD KUBOTA: X___X

Someone could see it as out-of-character for Elan, and it could certainly be, but I see it as a possible character development for our favorite bard.

So, the fight happen, maybe Daigo/his son/his wife are killed, or maybe not, In any case Elan go to face LK with the accusatio to have sent the ninja, Kubota deny everything with his usual arrogance, and add that they have no proofs and there is no way they can arrest him, and we have the scene depicted above, more or less

But probably I'm wrong as usual. :)

[Borris]

Why on earth are they fighting this thing? Quarr made it abundantly clear: Kill all the mortals on this island. The devil really doesn't want to be there, so he'll most likely play The Literal Genie card- once the mortals are off the island, he doesn't have to kill them. Logical as Vaarsuvius is, he should catch that, and I'll be disappointed if he doesn't.
I think you're forgetting the Order of the Stick's horrible track record when it comes to Spot and Listen checks.

[Sebastian]

And I loved the monk joke by the way. :D

[Zolem]

Kazumi seems to be having a full term pregnancy that lasts 3-4 months, a form of magic a lot of women wish they had access to. [I suppose it balances out. In strips where the writer has a lot of pregnancy jokes on file, she can stay pregnant for years.] More precisely, we have a plothole here that the writer seems to be determined to make more blatant. Haley has apparently not even passed a month since Kazumi was 8 weeks along.


Hold on, she's not about to give birth. She's just gotten a little larger and more bloaty. That's normal. Heck, she should be a lot larger before she gives birth, the baby is just kicking, which happens at only a few months of age.

[AlexanderRM]

I doubt they are in danger. If we add Infant Immortality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InfantImmortality) to The Inverse Ninja Law (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjitsu?from=Main.InverseNinjaLaw) which was already lampshaded (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContinuityNod) in this comic (back at the battle for Azure City) then factor in the fact that we are dealing with an Azure City version of a Duke (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AristocratsAreEvil) and the two of them took their level in badass long, long ago, (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TookALevelInBadass)and heroes are already trying to get there. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JustInTime)

Yeah, especially since they have ONE ninja on their side. Those eight don't stand a chance.
As pointed out earlier, though, the baby still doesn't have a first name. :smalleek:

[Yucca]

wow, here i thought kubota was just some pompous jerk, but now, now i see he deserves the worst kind of death imaginable

Really? We already knew that he keeps dozens (at least) of assassins on staff to kill his political enemies. He tried to kill the lord of his city in the middle of a battle to save said city. Twice. He would have assassinated the elderly lord of the city previously if the previous lord of the city hadn't faked dementia. He consorts with devils. Hasn't he been well beyond "pompous jerk" for a while?

EDIT: That came out a little harsh. But hasn't he been murderer and scumbag since day one?

[Hippoboy]

How many ninjas does kubota have?

[David Argall]

Hold on, she's not about to give birth. She's just gotten a little larger and more bloaty. That's normal. Heck, she should be a lot larger before she gives birth, the baby is just kicking, which happens at only a few months of age.

The kid is not just kicking. He is making field goal attempts. Nor are these the first kicks. He has been kicking for some time. So we are talking 7 months or so.

[Keldon]

People don't seem to get tired of quoting tvtropes on every single thread. :smallsigh:

[herrhauptmann]

A brand new noble house? Founded in the middle of a fleet of refugees? From commoner stock? Let's face, they may be nobility in the eyes of the law, but where would they have gotten a Vast Inheritance from, anyway? The only way they could afford a Raise Dead or two would be if Hinjo were to pay for it, and that'd mean less money for supplies for the other refugees.

As we've seen from Haley's half of the story arc, getting together that much cash isn't necessarily an easy thing in this setting.

Haven't you read the fall of the house of ulster? Not all noble houses are rich and powerful. Some are powerful solely because of their name, not their lands, treasuries, or armies (ninjas). Then, there are others that are actually quite powerful (money, land, military, politically), but are not considered powerful because a) no one likes them, b) they're relatively new c) all of the above. (House Frey in A song of ice and fire)

David Argall: She only mentions 'kicking alot tonight.' NOthing there gives an idea of kicking in the past week or month. Just 'tonight'. Meanwhile, the Giant tends to run his different plotlines at about the same pace, even if you don't see them at the same time. So after being dead about 100 days (3 months), Roy scryes on the wedding (baby is 2 months along). A few days later, he switches to scrying on Haley, where we discover the effects of the Cloister spell. We discover that it is a minimum of 5 weeks before the cloister spell expires (1 week per caster level, minimum caster level of 21 and it has been 16 weeks).
If the baby has reached its 7th month, (5 months since the wedding and Haley leaving the city), why has V not been able to contact Haley and Belkar in that time? You could argue that Xykon went and recast Cloister the day before Haley, Celia and Belkar left the city, but lets face it: If Xykon has another 5 weeks left on his abjuration, why would he recast it? That sort of anal retentive attention to detail is characteristic of Redcloak, not Xykon.

[Remirach]

Reading this I am afraid for Kazumi, Daigo, and Therkla all at once, although for different reasons. The use of TV tropes might be old hat by now, but it's true enough that there's at least one one to cover the deaths of any of them.

And I like Therkla more and more with each strip, too... but if she's killed, who'd resurrect her? At least Kazumi and Daigo would have a shot at it (fear for the baby, though), but Therkla is a traitor in Kubota's eyes and a criminal in Hinjo's. If she's dead, the only person who might care would be Elan.

Actually if she died and Hinjo wouldn't spring for a resurrection, I could see that putting a serious wedge in his relationship with Elan.

[Chronos]

If you check the date on the Deva's chart for Belkar's progress, consider the time elapsed, and throw in Belkar's prophecy, you get to the conclusion that Kazumi's not due until at least several weeks after Belkar's death. Since Belkar is still alive, Baby Kato probably isn't going to make an appearance any time in the immediate future.

[David Argall]

She only mentions 'kicking alot tonight.' NOthing there gives an idea of kicking in the past week or month. Just 'tonight'.

Look again. The baby kicks for the first time. The mother says "He is kicking." No qualifiers. Instead she adds "a lot" and "tonight". The baby has kicked on a number of previous nights, quite enough that ma has gone from thrilled to irritated. And we look at "a lot". The kicks increase with the time that has passed. [One site I looked at said that even at the start of the 8th month, 10 kicks a day is normal. One every hour or two does not sound like a lot. Granted, I am not the one being kicked, but...] Again we get the idea of an advanced pregnancy.


If the baby has reached its 7th month, (5 months since the wedding and Haley leaving the city), why has V not been able to contact Haley and Belkar in that time?
Which is why I label it a plothole. The Haley series says the brat should still be in its third month, and any kicks too soft for ma to notice.

[One_Wolf]

I want to know what Elan's pun on 'thaumaturgy' was.

The use of "nuts" as an onomatopoeia was pretty funny, but Elan's reference to a pun on thaumaturgy just struck me as hilarious.

-One Wolf

[Occasional Sage]

One every hour or two does not sound like a lot. Granted, I am not the one being kicked, but...
I'm told that when half the kicks are to your bladder, once is plenty period, to say nothing of follow-ups.


Which is why I label it a plothole. The Haley series says the screaming meatbag should still be in its third month, and any kicks too soft for ma to notice.

HK-47 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK-47) fixed that for you. :smallbiggrin:

[Red XIV]

No problem, I mean, there are 8 ninja if not more, it will be a cakewalk. :)
Yeah, if it were one ninja, it would be a problem, but eight? Daigo shouldn't even need help for that.

Especially once Elan and Therkla get there. Then their side will have one ninja on it. Everybody knows that a single ninja always wins against multiple ninja.

I want to know what Elan's pun on 'thaumaturgy' was.
Too bad. We'll never know. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoodleIncident)


I'm betting Hinjo is at the greatest risk of trying to beat the unstoppable Devil and throwing his life away, but V isn't thinking clearly right now either.
Being a paladin, he has no fear and would feel obliged to do take any risk to defeat an incarnation of Evil like this, yes. But even more likely would be Lien taking a hit that was meant for Hinjo, since she's also a paladin, and she's also obligated to protect her lord.

[RikuKupo]

All this linking to that wiki led me to something that just couldnt be ignored. it had to be done.

http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hintcg4.jpg

And to stay on topic, i dont think the baby is in any danger. I can see Elan talking the devil out of fighting before he got to the baby. They seem to be on similar wavelengths.

[AlexanderRM]

Sorry for you, but fathers can die. It's a rule, like having a first name prevent you from being a red shirt, and showing a photo of your new yacht that you are going to sail as soon as you get in retirement means sure death.
Children are a legacy, so when you sire one, you lose every contractual immortality.

Isn't there something like "they always off the mom"? I read that in a comic once, right after this person had watched Dumbo, and the character listed a ton of examples. We can only hope that a general sense of how much time has passed will overcome the rules of drama about going into labor during that scene... :smalleek:




Of course, we're ignoring an important fact here. Durkon can raise the dead. Even if the happy couple dies, well, death isn't CHEAP, but it isn't more gp than a nobel house could afford, at any rate.
Well, if you remember what happened the last (and only) two times a relatively major character died (Shojo and Roy), it's pretty obvious that the Giant isn't going to kill someone only to have them get raised immediately.



Ding. I think so too. Then again...

*Ninja stabs Daigo*
Daigo: Wait! My name is Daigo Kato D...*gets stabbed again multiple times* X_X
Uh-oh.



Is it even possible to raise a fetus?
If it isn't and it doesn't get raised along with the mother, the could just research a new spell for it. If anything, it should be easier to do so that for a full-grown human.



A few days later, he switches to scrying on Haley, where we discover the effects of the Cloister spell. We discover that it is a minimum of 5 weeks before the cloister spell expires (1 week per caster level, minimum caster level of 21 and it has been 16 weeks).
Key word being MINIMUM.

[Pvednes]

Multiple ninjas--they'll be fine.

[David Argall]

If you check the date on the Deva's chart for Belkar's progress, consider the time elapsed, and throw in Belkar's prophecy, you get to the conclusion that Kazumi's not due until at least several weeks after Belkar's death.

It will be tight, but Kazumi's due date can be before Belkar's exit.

Presumably the Oracle uses the Southern calendar, by which Azure City fell about Jan 15. Kazumi got knocked up just under 60 days later, a little before March 15. So she should deliver Dec 10-15, allowing Belkar to check out a week or two later.

[Ellen]

And there are preemies, although I have no idea what neonatal care is like in D&D. Still, seven month babies have been known to survive just fine without modern medicine (granted, they've been known to not survive too. As for six monthers, not impossible but expect plenty of complications and disabilities).

But, I think it was Terry Pratchett who pointed out that one man armed with an unmagical sword and a good cause going up against eight hardened warriors . . . well, that's where the hero code says the one man is probably unbeatable.

[disorder]

If the baby has reached its 7th month, (5 months since the wedding and Haley leaving the city), why has V not been able to contact Haley and Belkar in that time? You could argue that Xykon went and recast Cloister the day before Haley, Celia and Belkar left the city, but lets face it: If Xykon has another 5 weeks left on his abjuration, why would he recast it? That sort of anal retentive attention to detail is characteristic of Redcloak, not Xykon.
Yeah, but forgetting when he last cast Cloister, and renewing it at more-or-less random intervals, when it happens to cross his mind? That's Xykon.

[SPoD]

There is no plot hole regarding timing of Kazumi's pregnancy. She can be as far along as 6 moths, easy, and here's why:

The bird messenger spell WORKED. It successfully found Haley and Belkar. Therefore, the Cloister spell is no longer active on Haley as of strip #563.

Haley's discussion of it being active in #581 is an error on her part; she is assuming, as are many posters on this thread, that the fact that V and Durkon have not contacted her is PROOF that the Cloister is still working. It is not; it is proof that no one has tried to cast a spell that would successfully have found them between #563 and #581. It is proof that V is so fixated on finding a NEW way to scry that he/she is not being thorough. The old scrying spells did not work for the first few months, so he/she has discarded them and not tried them again. Haley cannot imagine that scenario, so in her mind, the Cloister is still active (and therefore, Xykon is MUCH higher level than he actually is).

The end result of this is that 2-3 months could have passed between #563 and #573. We know that Haley was able to go south to the Oracle and then up to Greysky, but we don't know how long that took. We know that Cliffport is "WAY more than four weeks north" of Azure City, but for all we know, Greysky could be 6-8 weeks north and Cliffport another week beyond that.

All it requires is for V to be arrogant enough to believe that there is no point in trying standard scrying spells and concentrate on researching new ones. Something that is very much within character for him/her right now, since he/she is not thinking as clearly as normal.

[Zorn]

Wait, what are people worried about Kazumi and Daigo for? Angry pregnant women are a force to be reckoned with, and I have a feeling that Kazumi won't be to happy about 8+ ninjas breaking up a family moment. Personally, I'm feeling sorry for the ninjas. They didn't know what they were signing up for.

[Tobz]

I'm just a typical lurker around here since around #175, but I just wanted to share how excited I was with the latest OotS!

Lately I've found myself more and more anticipating Erf over OotS (NOT whining here about the story going 'nowhere', I still like it a lot), but right now I'm very excited and can't wait to see how they are going to deal with this big devil our of nowhere!

He's doens't seem too bright though and would love to see a pokergame between him, MitD, Elan and Thog :smallbiggrin:

And I don't think House Kato is in much danger: a lone ninja AND a dashing swordsman coming to the rescue? Kubota doesn't stand a chance!

[dps]

but indipendently from how this specifc fight will end, I just thought about a possible development of the comic, it is a little out-of-the-blue but what could happen is ...

that Elan will kill Lord Kubota.

Think about it, the guy is not only threathening the life of Elan's friends, he is also putting the life of all the people of the fleet in danger for his ambitions to the point of allying with devils to reach his goals and yet he is untouchable, Therkla and his ninjas will never betray him, even because the later usually end dead before they have the chance to do it and there are absolutely no proofs against, his plan is almost perfect, but he forgot a little detail.

LORD KUBOTA: oh, and what this would be, if you can be so kind to tell me ?

ELAN: "I'm not lawful" *STABBITY-STAB*

LORD KUBOTA: X___X

Someone could see it as out-of-character for Elan, and it could certainly be, but I see it as a possible character development for our favorite bard.

So, the fight happen, maybe Daigo/his son/his wife are killed, or maybe not, In any case Elan go to face LK with the accusatio to have sent the ninja, Kubota deny everything with his usual arrogance, and add that they have no proofs and there is no way they can arrest him, and we have the scene depicted above, more or less

But probably I'm wrong as usual. :)

Yeah, I've thought about that,too. Hinjo isn't going to move against Kubota without evidence that can stand up in court, but Elan being chaotic isn't bound by that restriction. Vigilantism might be a bit out-of-character for him, but maybe not. We've never really seen him in a situation where it might be relevent.

[paladin_carvin]

Multiple ninjas--they'll be fine.

I agree here. Three, two ninjas... well, that would be bad. One ninja would be almost certainly death. 8 or more? Ha! Yea right. They are fine. But, if Kubota were to show up himself... well, someone would die.

[RMS Oceanic]

That's true, and Giant has shown he follows the Inverse Ninja Law (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html).

[RebelRogue]

A brand new noble house? Founded in the middle of a fleet of refugees? From commoner stock? Let's face, they may be nobility in the eyes of the law, but where would they have gotten a Vast Inheritance from, anyway? The only way they could afford a Raise Dead or two would be if Hinjo were to pay for it, and that'd mean less money for supplies for the other refugees.
I very much agree with this. However, in strip 504 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html) Durkon says he'd raise Roy immediately if he had his corpse. That must mean Durkon has quite a bit of diamond dust ready. With no promise of finding Roy any time soon, I think there's a definite chance Durkon would use it to raise Kazumi and/or Daimo if the need arose! He's a LG guy after all!

[Caleniel]

By strip evidence, Kazumi is a good seven months along, with 8-9 not out of the question. Given the limits of stick art and the variation between pregnancies, her giving birth in the next strip is not out of the question.



Hmm, is she now? You definitely haven't seen ME five months along. Eight months along I could easily balance a cup of tea on it.

Labour at this point WOULD be very dramatic, but I don't think you can conclude from the drawings that she is more than five months into the pregnancy. For a skinny person a pregnancy can look huge five months along. And there'd be kicking.

[Kaytara]

Haley's discussion of it being active in #581 is an error on her part; she is assuming, as are many posters on this thread, that the fact that V and Durkon have not contacted her is PROOF that the Cloister is still working. It is not; it is proof that no one has tried to cast a spell that would successfully have found them between #563 and #581. It is proof that V is so fixated on finding a NEW way to scry that he/she is not being thorough. The old scrying spells did not work for the first few months, so he/she has discarded them and not tried them again. Haley cannot imagine that scenario, so in her mind, the Cloister is still active (and therefore, Xykon is MUCH higher level than he actually is).

...

All it requires is for V to be arrogant enough to believe that there is no point in trying standard scrying spells and concentrate on researching new ones. Something that is very much within character for him/her right now, since he/she is not thinking as clearly as normal.

I think your logic is flawed. Specifically, this part: "It is proof that V is so fixated on finding a NEW way to scry that he/she is not being thorough. The old scrying spells did not work for the first few months, so he/she has discarded them and not tried them again." If the Cloister spell were no longer active, why would V's NEW scrying spells fail to work? If whatever prevented the OLD spells from working when they WOULD have worked is gone, the NEW ones should work with even more ease, since they're stronger, better, etc.

What I mean is, the general concept of your idea is alright, but it's not applicable in this setting.

It was my impression that V managed to create a spell that technically succeeded in contacting Haley not because the Cloister spell had expired by then, but because he found a loophole that the Cloister spell didn't cover. Teleportation, Sending spells, Planeshift, etc. etc. were all on the list, animals enchanted to go to a certain location weren't. Which is why VGAM worked.

And in any case, V may be obsessive and arrogant, but I doubt that he'd fail to account for the fact that whatever effect is blocking his efforts is magical in nature, and thus is likely to have an expiration rate.

[Warren Dew]

The bird messenger spell WORKED. It successfully found Haley and Belkar. Therefore, the Cloister spell is no longer active on Haley as of strip #563.

My impression is that the bird spell worked because it somehow got to use the summoning loophole in the cloister spell. Maybe someone more familiar with the D&D 3.5 rules could say something on that.

Also, Haley is smart enough to use some scrying from her end if she knows the spell is up. (However, she might be off by a week as Roy pointed out.)

I do think the baby can be pretty far along, though, because the cloister spell could easily have been renewed.

As for the kicking, Koizumi starts with "oof", so I tend to agree with the people who think it's been going on for a month or two. They don't hurt when they start out.

[Zolem]

I want to know what Elan's pun on 'thaumaturgy' was.

Hmmm, how about 'What's thaumaturgy, down in the dumps?' since thaumaturgy sounds a bit like 'what's-the-mater-guy?'


I think your logic is flawed. Specifically, this part: "It is proof that V is so fixated on finding a NEW way to scry that he/she is not being thorough. The old scrying spells did not work for the first few months, so he/she has discarded them and not tried them again." If the Cloister spell were no longer active, why would V's NEW scrying spells fail to work? If whatever prevented the OLD spells from working when they WOULD have worked is gone, the NEW ones should work with even more ease, since they're stronger, better, etc.


Except, you know, it takes 1 week per-spell level, so if he's researching a new 5th level spell after the mesangers 'failed', it would take him over a month to try it.

[warmachine]

As it takes a Move action to retrieve a potion and a Standard action to drink one, Elan couldn't have caught up with the running Therkla whilst drinking his healing potion.

Yes, I know that's a stupid thing to write.

[hamishspence]

Therkla slowed down, or Elan has the Run feat and she doesn't. Not hard to explain away.

[RebelRogue]

Therkla slowed down, or Elan has the Run feat and she doesn't. Not hard to explain away.
The Run Feat does not work that way :smallbiggrin:

[Dacia Brabant]

My impression is that the bird spell worked because it somehow got to use the summoning loophole in the cloister spell. Maybe someone more familiar with the D&D 3.5 rules could say something on that.



Teleportation, Sending spells, Planeshift, etc. etc. were all on the list, animals enchanted to go to a certain location weren't.

Except this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) specifies that locating creatures are blocked by the effects of the Cloister. Animal Messenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animalmessenger.htm) is an Enchantment (Compulsion, Mind Affecting) spell that lets the creature locate a place--or in V's version, a person--based on the caster's memory, and the creature is ensnared, not summoned. The only way V's birds could have located them is if the Cloister's effects had worn off.

[Mercenary Pen]

Bear in mind that the overriding issue with V is that he/she hasn't tranced in weeks- and therefore has not restored any spell slots in that entire time period insofar as we are aware.

Therefore, it isn't so much of a stretch to suggest that- having failed to break through the cloister with low-level divinations- he/she might give up on them to save his/her spell slots for the higher level divinations that are currently being researched (taking up most- if not all- of V's time).

[David Argall]

Labour at this point WOULD be very dramatic, but I don't think you can conclude from the drawings that she is more than five months into the pregnancy. For a skinny person a pregnancy can look huge five months along. And there'd be kicking.
The problem is that even granting your somewhat exceptional cases and putting her at 5 months along, which seems distinctly minimal, there is still the contrast with the Haley line, where she is about 3 months along.

[hamishspence]

It doesn't? Last I checked, Run feat enabled you to move at 5 times your speed when running, whereas people without it only ran 4 times their speed. So, within a few rounds, person with Run feat can catch up with person without Run feat.

[Zolem]

It doesn't? Last I checked, Run feat enabled you to move at 5 times your speed when running, whereas people without it only ran 4 times their speed. So, within a few rounds, person with Run feat can catch up with person without Run feat.

Except running is a full round action, so he can't do anything else, liek drink a potion.

[hamishspence]

either therkla slowed down, or elan has Dash feat: enables him to move faster than she can (whether they are running or not). Its not clear whether they are Running, Hustling, or what.

[Kaytara]

Except this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) specifies that locating creatures are blocked by the effects of the Cloister. Animal Messenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animalmessenger.htm) is an Enchantment (Compulsion, Mind Affecting) spell that lets the creature locate a place--or in V's version, a person--based on the caster's memory, and the creature is ensnared, not summoned. The only way V's birds could have located them is if the Cloister's effects had worn off.

I stand corrected. Must have missed that part.
In that case, I suppose the explanation that Vaarsuvius hasn't tried conventional non-edible methods of communication since then is the most plausible. Sucks to be V, though.



Also, Haley is smart enough to use some scrying from her end if she knows the spell is up. (However, she might be off by a week as Roy pointed out.)

It's not a problem for Haley. "You could cast them within the area, or even from inside the field to outside... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html)

...Actually, it's a moot point anyway, since Haley wouldn't be the one doing the casting. (Unless she used a scroll...) In any case, V and the others weren't in AC when the spell was cast, so there isn't anything blocking someone from scrying THEM.

Haley getting a cleric to scry on Hinjo's team is probably the most likely solution that could happen in the near future - barring a sudden intervention from the Thieves Guild, of course, which adds to the list of reasons why said intervention is probably inevitable.

[dps]

As it takes a Move action to retrieve a potion and a Standard action to drink one, Elan couldn't have caught up with the running Therkla whilst drinking his healing potion.

Yes, I know that's a stupid thing to write.

AFAIK, there's nothing that says that 1 panel = 1 round. That single panel could easily show the action that takes place in 2, 3, or even more rounds.

[Emanick]

That's true, and Giant has shown he follows the Inverse Ninja Law (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html).

Actually, it shows he doesn't, because the ninja is instantly squashed by Durkon.
The ninja seems to believe in that law though.

[factotum]

Actually, it shows he doesn't, because the ninja is instantly squashed by Durkon.


That just proves that Durkon (with Thor's Might cast) is mightier than even a single ninja and a huecuva!

[fractal]

Actually, it shows he doesn't, because the ninja is instantly squashed by Durkon.
The ninja seems to believe in that law though.
My guess would be that all of Kubota's blue ninjas are of about equal ability. Therkla had thought that Hinjo would be no match for two of them alone, so (since he was probably around level 11 at the time?) that would make them at least level 9. However, I would speculate that she under-estimated Hinjo (it seemed like he could probably have won if unhurt), so in reality the ninjas are probably more like 6 or 7, the same as Kasumi and Daigo (who actually may have levelled once or twice since comic 508).

If so, then clearly 8 Ninjas will be too much for the pair. However, ignoring the pregnancy, as Fighters, K&D will be individually stronger in straight-up melee, so maybe they can hold out long enough for Elan and Therkla to arrive.

[SPoD]

I think your logic is flawed. Specifically, this part: "It is proof that V is so fixated on finding a NEW way to scry that he/she is not being thorough. The old scrying spells did not work for the first few months, so he/she has discarded them and not tried them again." If the Cloister spell were no longer active, why would V's NEW scrying spells fail to work? If whatever prevented the OLD spells from working when they WOULD have worked is gone, the NEW ones should work with even more ease, since they're stronger, better, etc.

What I mean is, the general concept of your idea is alright, but it's not applicable in this setting.


As noted, the answer to this is this:

Except, you know, it takes 1 week per-spell level, so if he's researching a new 5th level spell after the mesangers 'failed', it would take him over a month to try it.

We know V can research 7th level spells, so there may have been 6.5 weeks of researching since comic #563, during which he/she has not tried any other spells due to being absolutely convinced that they will not work.

[paladin_carvin]

My guess would be that all of Kubota's blue ninjas are of about equal ability. Therkla had thought that Hinjo would be no match for two of them alone, so (since he was probably around level 11 at the time?) that would make them at least level 9. However, I would speculate that she under-estimated Hinjo (it seemed like he could probably have won if unhurt), so in reality the ninjas are probably more like 6 or 7, the same as Kasumi and Daigo (who actually may have levelled once or twice since comic 508).

If so, then clearly 8 Ninjas will be too much for the pair. However, ignoring the pregnancy, as Fighters, K&D will be individually stronger in straight-up melee, so maybe they can hold out long enough for Elan and Therkla to arrive.

You forget, even minions aren't all the same. They usually are, but the ninja rules work here. From a DM point of view, if you made baddies in a war a while ago you might not still have them. It would be a good excuse to make new ones. From a story view, Kubota would have sent his best ninjas to kill the current Lord of Azure City. K&D, while important to his plan, he would probably assume that a bunch of weaker ninjas can do the job.

[JJR2]

You guys are missing the point on #586. I was terribly disappointed.

We need to stay on Burlew's case until he actually writes a pun based on "thaumaturgy"!

[Max_Sinister]

I was wondering about something: If Elan and Therkla would have kids together (not that I necessarily wish for it) - what race would they be? There are rules for half-orcs, but what about quarter-orcs? Is there such a thing?

[hamishspence]

no idea. Maybe an "orc blooded" feat? or Half orc, with "human blooded" feat? Various sources, especially Dragon magazine, have given feats basied on a varing amount of fiendish or draconic, etc, blood, without being tiefling or Draconic Human.

EDIT: Human Heritage, from Races of destiny, must be a human descended race, gains Human subtype and 4 skill points.

[paladin_carvin]

I'm pretty sure I saw this 'officially' answered somewhere. There are no 'quarter orcs' 'quarter elves' or 'quarter humans'. Half is not literal and you would end up with a character with more human features than the average half orc but would still be officially a 'half orc' (thus having the stats as such). Though, I can't remember where the reference is from, so I'm basically a bad wikipedia article.

[AlexanderRM]

Except running is a full round action, so he can't do anything else, liek drink a potion.
Remember that the comic doesn't fit the game rules exactly. In real life, you could almost certainly take out a potion and drink it while running- in fact, it might even take less time than it would in game terms.



My guess would be that all of Kubota's blue ninjas are of about equal ability.

No, their ability is dependent on how many of them are sent out. That actually makes sense in some cases... I don't have time to explain it now, though.