How to be a realistic DM

[Cilvyn]

Hello folks,

I am Dming for a while now and i want to improve my skills, try other ways of presenting situations to players and be more realistic.

In stead of dull saying:'The owlbear walks at you and hits you with his claw, you get 5 damage' I try to keep it more like this: The owlbear calls out a big roar and walks on to you. He rends it big claw into your chest. you get 5 damage.
But this to is a bit anoyine after 5 hits.

can you guys share your experince of presenting attacks, situation, enviroment and stuff. say to be very realistic in giving the PCs all information.

Then i have a problem that my players do not realy roleplay during combat. They more likely to discuss everything out character. Do you guys have anything i can advise them to be more in character during combat? Or should I forbid them to talk out of character during combat, maybe that is a chalanging but good way to let them fight AS their characters and not with their chars like a chess game?

[RTGoodman]

Well, one thing I tend to do is to not describe all "hits" as being actual hits - since HP is an abstract concept that represents not just health but ability to fend off blows, a "hit" could instead be a glancing blow that knocks you off balance, a blow in the gut that knocks the wind out of you, and stuff like that.

Limiting OOC talk during combat also goes a long way toward stopping metagaming about monsters and whatnot. Just tell your players that your characters aren't psychic and don't know everything that they do, and that if they want to communicate information they have to do so as CHARACTERS. Don't be draconian about it (no pun intended), since everyone's there to have fun, but try to limit it.

[Saph]

Following on from what rtg said, I usually don't describe hits at all. It's interesting to do from time to time, but after a while it just gets tedious (as you're finding out). When you get hit a dozen times per adventuring day, being slashed by a sword just isn't special enough to be worth describing.

I usually only describe attacks if there's something special about them; particularly funny or particularly deadly. If the incarnation of Dark Force hits the warrior for 80% of his maxiumum HP in one shot, or if the Dark Jedi criticals and knocks you to zero and through a window, then you get a dramatic description. Otherwise it's "He hits, you take 4 and 6 damage, your turn."

As for talking out of combat, I find it's only a problem when it starts to slow the game down, especially when the players start arguing. Jokes and stuff are fine, but when the fighter and the cleric are spending 2 minutes discussing which square to take a 5-foot step into, it's gone too far. When I'm DMing and finally run out of patience, I enforce it by starting a countdown, "5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . ." Then if they haven't declared their action, they lose their go.

- Saph

[Hal]

One way might be to only do it at dramatically appropriate moments. Lucky saves, big hits, near misses, characters who are close to death . . . you get the idea. If the fighter swings his sword and takes another 20 out of 400 hit points away, that's not really worth describing. If he charges in, crits, and manages 100 points of damage, that warrants an exciting description. Edit: Wow, I've been ninja'd!

Another option might just be to start off doing it for everything, but then to read your players and taper if off as the battle wears on. You'll be able to tell when they're just ready to speed through and kill everything that's attacking them.

[arguskos]

I find it is useful to have a stopwatch during combat. Tell them they have 30 seconds to decide their action and perform it. If they complain about the super-short turns, tell them it's a BATTLE. It is hectic, it is busy, they can't deliberate. Think about it on the other's turns.

Also, as the DM, don't exceed maybe 1-2 minutes for your turn (you get more time, since you have more to do usually).

Once everyone gets used to this system, it speeds combat by tons, and makes it more exciting, IMO.

-argus

[Spiryt]

For me describing hits and all is always fine, fight it's about that after all, but indeed, you must do it reasonably, to avoid repeating or weird descriptions.

[AKA_Bait]

Like most have said, I too generally only describe particularly exciting hits. Meaning, unless it's a crit, a killing blow, or some funky spell or power, I tend to just go with a quick 'it claws/swings/shoots at you for x damage' on a hit and 'woosh' for a miss.

[Friv]

Wow, most people run things differently than I do.

I have spent years playing Exalted, and that has leaked into all my other games. Everything that happens, I describe in about a sentence or so. So do my players; a description of "I take a shot... 6 damage" would happen only in the most tired or wiped out moments. (Actually, I had to add a rule that if you can't describe it in three or four sentences, you might want to tone it down. :smalltongue: )

That said, it helps if everyone is being cinematic. One cinematic person in a group of none has nothing to build on.

[SpikeFightwicky]

As an aside, minimum owlbear claw damage is actually 6 :smalltongue:

I had a similar problem in one of my games. Being descriptive eventually became somewhat annoying, so what I ended up doing was using odd turns of phrase and adjectives to keep things fresh. It eventually got to the point where simply saying 'you take 5 damage from the monster's claw' since the players were expecting some outlandish description. Then again, this may not work with a more serious group.

[Spiryt]

Wow, most people run things differently than I do.

I have spent years playing Exalted, and that has leaked into all my other games. Everything that happens, I describe in about a sentence or so. So do my players; a description of "I take a shot... 6 damage" would happen only in the most tired or wiped out moments. (Actually, I had to add a rule that if you can't describe it in three or four sentences, you might want to tone it down. :smalltongue: )

That said, it helps if everyone is being cinematic. One cinematic person in a group of none has nothing to build on.


I also tend to describe everything but in that manner everything must be done carefully - if you describe the goblins arrows tearing a PC mail and sticking in his flesh too often, it will raise the quesion how his mail still protects from anything. For example.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Keeping the combat moving is easy (as has been pointed out above): nothing like a little countdown to focus the mind. Though you should actually delay the tardy fighter's round, and give them a second shot at the bottom of the initiative order, rather than have them forfeit the turn immediately. This keeps things moving about as quickly and it doesn't stress out any genuine slow-thinkers in your group.

Describing hits is something I do when the mood strikes me. In the middle of combat, it's usually enough "he chucks a javelin at you for 5" or "he whacks you for 5" if the combat is flowing neatly. Deathblows or critical hits I usually spice up a bit, as well as particularly amusing attacks (for instance, I had one Goblin Warrior who abused his move for +d6 damage a lot, so whenever he hit someone and did the extra damage, I described it as him hitting the PC in the kidney :smallbiggrin:).

Of course, my PCs don't really "act out" their combat actions too much, but it can be good to encourage them to be a little theatric when setting up their attacks - like "I 'ready' my hand crossbow and steady it across my forearm. When the goblin bastard turns to look at me, I let him have it between the eyes." It's good for a little flavor here and there, but not to overdo it.

[Name_Here]

Well I remember an awesome article I read online ages ago that a DM could work with his players to really add spice to the game.

Players could describe the hit effecting them in some way that makes it harder to fight and the DM could knock off a bit of damage in exchange. That way it wasn't the DM handing out rediculous ability damage and it wasn't the player deciding that he took no damage from that last hit because his pinky won't work correctly. Overall I thought it was an amazing idea that I have never put into play.

[batsofchaos]

Exciting combat is very difficult, but I've been running my games in a way that has gotten a lot of good feedback from my players.

First and foremost, I suggest reading Initiative: The Silent Killer (http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/72/initiative-the-silent-killer/), and taking some of those suggestions. I generally roll for initiative, have the players decide all at once what it is they're going to do and resolve the actions in initiative order. As they roll I explain the math blandly (Hit, he takes 5 damage, etc.), and then at the end of the round I give a cinematic "recap" of the actions.

So in a round of combat, the fighter will power attack, the rogue will move to a flanking position and sneak attack, the wizard will cast magic missile, and the ogre they're fighting will hit the fighter. They roll, fighter misses, wizard and rogue hits, and ogre hits. They here the damage totals, and I launch in:

The fighter pulls his heavy blade back and makes a mighty arcing swing down towards the Ogre's head as the wizard chants esoteric words of power and the rogue darts quickly and quietly behind the brute. As the fighter's blade swings down the ogre deflects the strike aways and slams into the fighter. Just as his blow connects, the rogue strikes, slashing at vulnerable areas. A beam of arcane energy lances out from the wizard's outstretched palm and strikes the ogre in the chest. The figther stumbles back, slightly shaken by the blow, and the ogre lets out a roar of frustration. Next round.

Since I know everything that's happened in the round, I can give a good description of the action. This really limits the monotonous flowery descriptions that dress up the "Hit, you take 9 damage" information, and gives a dynamic view of the combat that keeps the players interested. It also encourages them to think of actions outside of the nitty gritty mechanics.

[Spiryt]

The fighter pulls his heavy blade back and makes a mighty arcing swing down towards the Ogre's head as the wizard chants esoteric words of power and the rogue darts quickly and quietly behind the brute. As the fighter's blade swings down the ogre deflects the strike aways and slams into the fighter. Just as his blow connects, the rogue strikes, slashing at vulnerable areas. A beam of arcane energy lances out from the wizard's outstretched palm and strikes the ogre in the chest. The figther stumbles back, slightly shaken by the blow, and the ogre lets out a roar of frustration. Next round.


Nicely done.

[bosssmiley]

Courtesy of Geoff's Gameblog (http://jrients.blogspot.com/2008/08/old-schoolin-how-to-get-started.html): Matt Finch's Quick Primer for Old School Gaming (http://www.lulu.com/content/3019374).

This dandy little free booklet includes a wealth of pointers for making sure that detail, description and player-driven narrative matter both in and out of combat. It is almost a mini-Bible for a DM who wants to make sure his players get invested in the gameworld.

[Cilvyn]

Genius realy the comapring modern style and old style.. just genius :smallsmile:

[Moff Chumley]

I agree with most of the above suggestions.
Don't "forbid" OC talk, just regularly say stuff like "You mean ARAMIL says go around and hit him in the back..." when they start to metagame.

[Knaight]

Although not all of it applies to all games. IF your playing games where wounds are actually wounds(Fudge, M&M, Shadowrun), then describe them. As for the initiative bit, that doesn't apply in games with simultaneous combat, ie opposed checks winner hits(Fudge uses this, as one of 3 methods. Risus may, I don't really remember, and there are probably a few others.)

Now for some other stuff. With settings, note smaller stuff. For instance instead of "Trees tower above you as you enter the forest, their canopy branches stretching into the air, green leaves casting a filter on the ground.", "You enter the forest to the sound of birds chirping your boots making sucking sounds in the muck as you walk through the forest, punctuated by spots of moss and fungi in the darker parts of the forest." Its slightly longer, but actually gives the forest some interest. Since trees towering above people with branches and leaves everywhere is just assumed. Similarly you don't have to describe the torch brackets in the wall, or the table in the great hall unless they actually have some interest. Those are assumed. Also avoid worthless details, unless the mortar between the stones is crumbling or something, we don't care. Its not what would be noticed by someone walking through it.

The article on old style GMing is sort of useful, and not even very game specific, the only real thing being the comment about treasure, which I personally disagree with(reasons to avoid combat with no treasure. Its combat, and there is no treasure. No point getting in a fight thats going to be completely worthless to you anyways, although I typically use a system where I just give out points at the end of the session, or they come naturally, without any focus on killing stuff. That may be part of the reason I never see the attack random monster syndrome when they have no treasure, or aren't a particular threat.) Although some of the cases die rolls would make sense(ie perception with the pit trap.), and some of the comments about modern gaming border on the ridiculous.

[SoD]

As an aside, minimum owlbear claw damage is actually 6 :smalltongue:

Not always. There may be DR, the owlbear may have been hit with a ray of enfeeblement, or the DM (who likes everything prepared to be individual) may have rolled stats for the owlbear, 3d6, in order, with any adjustments, with a nonexistant score not rolled, and an int 1 or 2 automatically dropped down to that, resulting in a weaker than average owlbear.

[Knaight]

Thats without even counting in stuff like action points, special abilities which partially negate strength score to damage(I saw one somewhere, probably homebrew, that let you injure someones main hand so that they only got 1/2 strength with it, and could only use light weapons.)

[ericgrau]

+1 limit metagaming via time/talk/etc. limit. +1 save the detailed descriptions for when it counts. Otherwise "You stab (or etc.) him (or a certain, no-need-to-be-too-specific, part of him) for X damage. Stiggy, you're up next."

Be careful about being too strict. The main goal is to have fun. Realism and imposing these limits often helps the fun, but be considerate of certain players (noobs, sleepy people, etc.) when necessary.

[valadil]

I'm not sure how to encourage RP in combat. We usually don't bother.

For description, try coming up with a bunch of descriptions in advance. Write them down. Read one of them when someone gets hit. Once you get used to that you'll be able to improvise. I have no trouble describing combat, but I have to use this method when describing a new setting or NPC.

[batsofchaos]

Nicely done.

Thanks! Pulled that out of the ether (read: My butt).

[d-dave]

I am a very filmic DM. I see everything that happens like a movie. So if my party of a dwarf ftr, halfling rogue, human cleric, and Tiefling warlock runs into a group of goblins it comes into my head like a film script. Kind of like this...

The rough walls of the tunnel open up into a low ceiling chamber. Water trickles down the cavemoss covered walls, and stalagmites and stalagtites cut the room into uneven areas. Across the room, on an elivated dias, a fire burns casting long, strange shadows through out the room. At least a dozen goblins dance around the fire. A taller goblin with a scaled headdress and a shamanistic staff shouts encouragement to them while waving his arms erraticly.

PCs make decision to sneak up on them. Everyone rolls a thievery check versus the goblins passive perception, dwarf fails.

The goblins stop at the sound of bone crunching under dwarven boots, and fourteen beedy, red eyes turn upon you. In an instant, weapons are drawn and the goblins run to overwhelm you. Roll initiative!

First round of combat:

An acrid blast of green energy fires from the warlocks wand, dropping one of the goblins in mid stride. A steel crossbow bolt from the rogue slams into the mossy wall, just missing the goblin shaman.

Ax, mace and shields foreward, the cleric and the fighter run into the thickest collection of goblins. The dwarves ax, shears the head of the first goblin in half. A spear glances off the mail of the cleric as he swings his shield to clear out room for a spell...

In this case, all attack rolls were successful. In the 4e PHB, they describe hps almost as luck. If you suffer damage, it doesn't have to be actual bodily harm. The though is, anyone can be killed by a single sword, ax, or arrow blow. The heroic-ness of PCs is that they have the luck, training, whatever to avoid the deadliest part of the attack.

In my example, the rogue almost hit the goblin shaman (hexer) with his blow. That means, hopefully, that next time the rogue shoots at the shaman, his bolt will hit. The hexer, like any PC or NPC only has so much luck before it runs out.

I also like to allow players to describe their set up for an attack roll an the resolution of the roll then finishes the description.

But in any situation, it is important to keep your PCs on task. We have a talking totem (was a water bottle at one point) where whoever has the totem, can speak. I also pass PCs by. If they still haven't made a decision by the time I get to them (I play with 6 players), they go last. If they are last, or haven't made a choice, then they lose a turn. That kept games and what not going much quicker for me and allowed them to get back to role playing.

Oh, and speaking of that, good role players get bonuses. Not necessairly xp, but other perks. Like one of my former PCs is now the Crown Prince in Karrnath because he role played his character. The others are heroes, but he went above and beyond (and seduced a princess, made some cha rolls, she failed a con save and ended up producing an heir for him...yeah...) what the others did.

Ok, enough of me now... =)

[Thufir]

On talking OoC during combat: in general, they shouldn't do it, but sometimes it makes sense because one player can remind another of some option they have which their character would know about, but they don't because they don't have a perfect memory of all the rules. And also because they don't routinely fight monsters IRL.
Other than that, pretty much no, they can say things in character, but of course they're limited by the length of the round so they can't say much. And if someone takes too long thinking, they should be hurried. A countdown isn't a universal solution (Sometimes I have the problem that I know what I would do, but need more time to think of what my character would do - good roleplaying and not metagaming on my part) but it's a definite option to bring home the urgency of the situation to the player.

[nargbop]

Try to get the characters to do as much of the narration as possible. If you have a hex board and miniatures, whether you use them RAW or not, USE THEM. Some people can't think of single-action tactics if they can't see visual representations of their characters.
"Shining Excaliber whips above the vile demons' head (as I roll a 2), and I dash on top of this here rock to jump over his claws."
DM, running with it : (rolls a 17 for a successful hit and 8 damage) "It comes up from its duck into a vicious slash across your chest. You bleed, sir!"
Player 2 : " I shout "Get down, Nargbop!" and get behind the demon. I delay my action til after my good man dodges, then letting loose with a fireball."

This requires everyone to be very familiar with the system, a little used to each others' characters, and above all, trusting each other enough not to take on too much story themselves.

[magellan]

Have to chime in here with the "don't overdo it" crowd and "save it for the exciting things" Actually, you cant do too little RPing & describing in combat, only too much.

Example:
DM: Owlbear attacks, Bite, claw, claw, Hit, Hit, Miss, thats .... wow ... 7 and 6 points.
Player Ouch. that leaves me with 5 hitpoints!
DM: oh... yap, was a good one 5,4,3,2,1...

Is the player going to be bored because of the non existant description of his near death experience? i dont think so.

Will he be bored by teh 925th mighty swordswing wich used blood gore, and funny noises wooshing through the air while the deathly cold iron burns in his soft flesh for 2 points of damage, resulting in nothing to write home about?

So I'd say: rather one description less than one too many.
And also: Coundown! I used to start with 10 silently and saying it aloud starting with 5. Who didnt tell me what he did at 1 dropped to the end of the initative order for one last question or round forfeited :)

[Conners]

With RPing hits, it really depends on your storytelling skills. If you've got lots of imagination, go ahead and describe every hit (making to keep every hit to a single sentence and no more, except for more dramatic hits). Over PBP, I can take my time doing some good RPs for whether the attack hits or misses. It's far more difficult for IRL, however, so you may wish to just be vague or only do it for the dramatic hits (writing down some pre-done hit dialogue and referring to it could help).

There are a few rules to RPing attacks I think you should note (if you read all the below, I think you'll be quite set):
1) Remember that every time you (a PC) are hit, you aren't stabbed through the heart and just carry on for no apparent reason. A hit can constitute anything from a dagger barely grazing your cheek, to a dragon breaking your spine with one fell swing and killing you. The more damaging the hit, the more powerful the effects should be.

2) As an extension to 1, remember to keep your players' level, class and race in mind. A 12th level dwarven fighter should be quite capable of having a dagger buried in his arm (if you were being very realistic, you could give him a penalty with actions using that arm), but a 2nd level elven wizard will probably take only a deep slash across the chest and before they fall to the ground in agony (that hurts, ya' know :smalleek:). You could even go so far as using the players' Con as a basis, if you wished.

3) Continuing the Fight: Remember that (unless you have homebrewed rules for penalty from injury in your game) the players fight just as well at 1 HP as they do at 100. Perhaps someone take 200 damage and survives in a high-level game, so you decide their arm is cloven off--they should therefore (unless you want your players to tease you and not take the campaign seriously) not be able to do anything requiring that hand and take a penalty for wielding two-handed weapons.

4) Bleeding: As an extension of 3, you should note that you die after losing about half your blood. This doesn't need to be the case for high level characters, or other races. However, unless you want to ignore bleeding, realism, or the fact your human is meant to be his namesake (a human) you should make sure the PCs don't bleed too much--especially since they would be expected to continue bleeding after the fight (and therefore still in danger of dying).

5) After the Battle: On the last note of 4, I will bring up the fact that it is quite possible to survive a battle, but die from your injuries afterwards. The berserker could carry on massacring hordes of drow quite well, with a blade in his stomach, but he would very certainly die if he was not treated immediately (through magic or medical means beyond that of the medieval period). Also, if a PC broke a leg badly, they shouldn't be able to move around at any decent speed, until it was magicked (I'm surprised "magicked" is an actual word...) back together or they spent three months in bed with a splint. In the end, don't let the injuries from a battle be too serious, unless you want a unrealistic campaign, plot-holes, or half-dead/fully-dead players. The injuries from the last fight, however, could be as extreme as you like--taking in mind the players need to be well enough to fix their wounds and/or get back to somewhere they can heal fully.

6) Non-Physical Damage: Perhaps when the 10th level fighter PC is hit for five damage he isn't poked-with-the-spear-so-lightly-it-doesn't-even-draw-blood, but instead he blocks the incoming attack and his footing is slightly altered. As other people have advised you already, damage to your HP doesn't necessarily need to draw blood or make bruises. Perhaps HP represents the PC's energy and morale (I think they described it as such in the 4th-ed DMG or PHB) and when its lowered it means that the battle is going badly so his defence is faltering (allowing for a killing blow to get through their guard). When a PC is grounded at 0 HP, they don't necessarily have to be unconscious* or even badly wounded. If they're a paladin in full-plate, then it'd be understandably hard to get back up again while surrounded by enemies. Perhaps the death saves represent whether the PC gets up under the flurry of blades or is stabbed through the neck by one of the surrounding enemies.
*: Contrary to movies, you rarely stay KOed for a substantial period of time (several seconds, or perhaps a minute if it was bad?). If you do stay out for a long time, you've either been put in a coma or some serious brain-damage has been done (you're probably more likely to be killed from such a blow).

7) Situation: Note that most of my examples assume a certain situation--the reason for this is that combat has a LOT to do with situation, as does people's behaviour and the story in itself. If the enemy attacking you is a huge dragon, you should in no way be able (except at higher levels) to block a full-on strike with your shield (that should send you flying). With an example above over an alternative to a character's state at 0 HP -- the example being how the death saves represent whether the player can get up under a hail of strike from surrounding enemies and a failure resulting in said enemies finishing said player -- it would not work out if there was only one enemy, without a ranged attack, who was well away from the "dying" player. Along with the enemies, the terrain is also a big deal. If you are fighting in a narrow corridor, the warrior with a greatsword shouldn't be taking huge swings at enemies (his sword would hit on the walls and he'd strike nothing). Unable to take his usual massive swings, the warrior would have to mostly thrust at the foes ahead of him, taking small swings on occasion. In the case of the narrow corridor and the large weapon, it could also be the reason why said warrior misses an enemy (him catching his sword on a wall or the ceiling).

8) Remember that many of the above rules apply to dodging and missed hits. When the expert-crossbowman fires at you -- while you're chained up and ten feet away -- but rolls a 1, he doesn't just miss. Perhaps he's standing on a slope and the gravel slivers from beneath his foot and he loses balance, or the crossbow mechanism malfunctions and doesn't even fire (in the latter case, you may wish to say his ammo doesn't go down and that it take only a free-action to fix his crossbow so he can fire again, if you're being properly realistic). Should a dragon take a swing at a first level PC but roll a one, the PC shouldn't do a back-flip twenty feet into the air and land with a twirl, something like that needs to reserved for a level 25 rogue or something like that. More realistically, "The dragon is still half-asleep as it strikes at you, slashing at a space of ground several feet to your left. Its claws plough through the hard bedrock like loose-soil, as it easily draws back it's arm..." This also makes the game more exciting.

9) The Dice: One thing I tend to do (I can afford this since I do PBP games, you may not be able to IRL) is RP the result based not only on all the above, but also on what the dice roll. If you roll a 17, but the enemy's AC is too high for even that to hit, then I'd say that, "You swing powerfully with great skill, but the enemy had anticipated such a move earlier and thus parries your attack." You could even take the damage dice into consideration for how an attack hits or miss, saying that, "While your swing is incredibly powerful (on max damage but 1 on attack), the enemy sees you drawing back your arm for the mighty blow--ducking at the last and evading injury."

10) ..... I wanted to have ten things, but it seems I'm out :smalltongue::smallbiggrin:. I hope this helps, and good luck with RPing hits and misses (I should copy this into notepad should anyone else ask for advice on such a matter) :smallwink:!

[AslanCross]

I find it is useful to have a stopwatch during combat. Tell them they have 30 seconds to decide their action and perform it. If they complain about the super-short turns, tell them it's a BATTLE. It is hectic, it is busy, they can't deliberate. Think about it on the other's turns.

Also, as the DM, don't exceed maybe 1-2 minutes for your turn (you get more time, since you have more to do usually).

Once everyone gets used to this system, it speeds combat by tons, and makes it more exciting, IMO.

-argus

This is a good idea. I think I should do this. My players take forever on their turns.

[Knaight]

That may be the system, 30 seconds often isn't enough to perform stuff at higher levels.

[sonofzeal]

I love describing hits, but it works best for special occasions. For a lvl1 character, that's pretty much anything that deals damage; for higher level characters, it's usually more for crits, killing blows, unusual combinations, or anything else that gives a particularly evocative mental picture.