Chameleon Query

[Kobold-Bard]

I am planning on playing a Chameleon, a Prestige Class from Races of Destiny.

Its abilities allow it to take on the powers of other classes (good at everything, great at nothing kind of thing).

When it takes on the arcane focus it can cast spells like a wizard. It requires a spellbook and material components. But it doesn't mention anything about arcane spell failure. The chameleon is proficient with all armour so does it not matter, or will a chain shirt affect its spells?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Arcane Focus allows your PC Chameleon to cast Arcane spells just as a Wizard does which normally means ASF in armor without the right feat which as a Chameleon your PC has access to.

[monty]

All arcane spells are cast with ASF unless otherwise specified. And CASTLEMIKE, unless we're talking about different feats, you can't take it unless you already have the ability to ignore armor from that class (even if you have levels in, say, bard, it'll only improve your bard spells).

[Kobold-Bard]

Thanks for the clarification guys.

[CASTLEMIKE]

All arcane spells are cast with ASF unless otherwise specified. And CASTLEMIKE, unless we're talking about different feats, you can't take it unless you already have the ability to ignore armor from that class (even if you have levels in, say, bard, it'll only improve your bard spells).

Are you saying that a Chameleon PRC with the Open Bonus Feat at Chameleon -2 is unable to use that feat to reduce ASF?

[Frosty]

I am not aware of a feat to flat out reduce ASF. There is a feat to elt you cast in heavier armor, but if you do not already possess the ability to cast in armor (and Wizard casting doesn't get that), then it won't help at all.

[monty]

Are you saying that a Chameleon PRC with the Open Bonus Feat at Chameleon -2 is unable to use that feat to reduce ASF?

Well, the feat I'm thinking of increases the armor you can cast in without penalty by one step, if you can already do so in some sort of armor. Remember that you still have to meet prerequisites for the bonus feat.

[Jack_Simth]

Are you saying that a Chameleon PRC with the Open Bonus Feat at Chameleon -2 is unable to use that feat to reduce ASF?Nice of WotC to put the Chameleon Class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1) on the web:


Bonus Feat (Ex): At 2nd level, you gain a bonus feat. You must meet the prerequisites for this feat. At the start of each day, you can choose to change your bonus feat to any other feat for which you meet the prerequisites.(Emphasis added); add to that the little issue that:

You can't use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option. You can use your bonus feat to qualify for such options, but if you change the feat, you suffer the normal drawbacks for no longer meeting a prerequisite or requirement.

Which, among other things, means that if you don't have a caster level without your aptitude focus for the day, you can't take item creation feats.

Mostly, though, you'll want to use the Divine focus, rather than the Arcane focus. With any divine spellcasting class' spell list at your disposal, you can get most the stuff you'd want from the Arcane side anyway - and the Divine focus nets you a better Fort save (which is one of the important ones) than does the Arcane focus.

Playing the chameleon as a Jack of all trades, master of none, I've found I like a Bardic entry best - you've got a caster level, so can use the flexible feat for the low-level item crafting. You've got access to most spells, so you can make very good use of that. You've got an entry of 6 skill points per level, and all skills required on your class list, so it's easy to qualify. My biggest annoyance with the Chameleon as a PrC is.... there's nowhere to go, after. It doesn't qualify you for any other PrC's, nothing can really add to it (assuming you try to keep with the flavor of the Chameleon), and almost nothing will add to its abilities.

[monty]

Which, among other things, means that if you don't have a caster level without your aptitude focus for the day, you can't take item creation feats.

Meh, if you're making an item-monkey, you're better off going Warlock 12+/Chameleon 2, which gives you a caster level anyway.

[Frosty]

How about Factotum going into Chameleon?

[monty]

How about Factotum going into Chameleon?

For item creation or general skillmonkeying? In the former case, warlocks can create any item, and with moderate optimization can do it as soon as they get the ability (factotum is limited to Wiz/Sor spells, maxed out at 7th level [and much later than the warlock], and it's unclear whether they have a real caster level anyway). In the latter, that goes without saying - factotum makes any skillmonkey better.

[Flashlight]

How about Factotum going into Chameleon?

Factotum 8/Chameleon 10 in the end is able to cast 2 spells per round with Cunning Surge, both arcane and divine up to 6th level, able to add Int to all kinds of rolls, skillmonkeying galore and later refocus to fighter aptitude and kick some a**... - what not to like?

Arcane Spell Failure? Buy a +x Twilight Mithral Shirt!

[hotel_papa]

Factotum going into chameleon is awesome, actually. Incredibly, incredibly awesome. I have a changeling in my game with that build. Nothing says "circumstance bonus to disguise" like mimicking an otherwise impossible-to-do class feature.

But wait.

"You can't use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option."

Does this mean that you can't take Practiced Spellcaster as your Chameleon feat to up your arcane or divine focus caster level? As in, it could only bump the CL of one of your other spellcasting classes (if any)?

HP

[Frosty]

I wonder if Chameleon Factotum/Chameleon with Multiple Personality Disorder would make a good BBEG...

[Jack_Simth]

"You can't use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option."

Does this mean that you can't take Practiced Spellcaster as your Chameleon feat to up your arcane or divine focus caster level? As in, it could only bump the CL of one of your other spellcasting classes (if any)?

HP
Right. You have to qualify for the bonus feat, and you can't use your focus for the day to qualify for feats. If you're a Bard-5/Chameleon-2, you could use the bonus feat for Practiced Spellcaster (Bard), but you couldn't use it for Practiced Spellcaster (Chameleon Arcane). You could, however, use it for Scribe Scroll, take the Divine focus for the day, collaborate with yourself and write up a 2nd level spell scroll of a spell you got through your Divine Focus at caster level 3 as an Arcane scroll (you've got an arcane caster level!) to hand to your party Wizard so he can put it in his spellbook. The Rogue-5/Chameleon-2, on the other hand, can't use the bonus feat on Scribe Scroll - as he does not meet the "caster level 1" requirement without his Chameleon focus for the day.

[Dr Bwaa]

I wonder if Chameleon Factotum/Chameleon with Multiple Personality Disorder would make a good BBEG...

Maybe not the best BBEG, but a reccuring/important NPC, definitely. Make him physically very recognizable, but every time the PCs meet him (and he needs to introduce himself/them every time it's a new personality), he has a new profession/hobby/speciality/whatever and always knows the way to get them out of whatever tight spot they're in.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Nice of WotC to put the Chameleon Class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1) on the web:

(Emphasis added); add to that the little issue that:


Which, among other things, means that if you don't have a caster level without your aptitude focus for the day, you can't take item creation feats.

Mostly, though, you'll want to use the Divine focus, rather than the Arcane focus. With any divine spellcasting class' spell list at your disposal, you can get most the stuff you'd want from the Arcane side anyway - and the Divine focus nets you a better Fort save (which is one of the important ones) than does the Arcane focus.

Playing the chameleon as a Jack of all trades, master of none, I've found I like a Bardic entry best - you've got a caster level, so can use the flexible feat for the low-level item crafting. You've got access to most spells, so you can make very good use of that. You've got an entry of 6 skill points per level, and all skills required on your class list, so it's easy to qualify. My biggest annoyance with the Chameleon as a PrC is.... there's nowhere to go, after. It doesn't qualify you for any other PrC's, nothing can really add to it (assuming you try to keep with the flavor of the Chameleon), and almost nothing will add to its abilities.

So you are saying there is no way around that in game with the open bonus feat? The PC has to take an arcane class level. Spending a feat perhaps something like the Magical Training feat at first level for arcane spellcasting wouldn't work and isn't an option?

[Frosty]

It's too abd you can't take Mystic theurge adfter Chameleon. That would have been awesome. Oh well, just take the rest of the levels in Factotum for more versatility.

[Chronos]

If you want to go the "I can make anything" route, you probably want to take Craft Rod as a real feat. Many rods require two feats to make: Either Craft Magic Arms and Armor for the more weapon-y rods, or a metamagic feat, for metamagic rods. So you have Craft Rod as a regular feat, and use the changeable feat for whatever else you need.

This way, by making metamagic rods, you can also take advantage of metamagic feats even while you don't have the feat.

[Jack_Simth]

So you are saying there is no way around that in game with the open bonus fea? The PC has to take an arcane class level. Spending a feat perhaps something like the Magical Training feat at first level for arcane spellcasting wouldn't work and isn't an option?
Well, as I said "if you don't have a caster level without your aptitude focus for the day" - taking Magical Training (or similar) at 1st level gives you a caster level that is not dependent on your aptitude focus for the day. If you've got a way to qualify for whatever feat you're faking that doesn't depend on your Chameleon class levels, you're good to go. So I suppose the Rogue-5/Chameleon-2 who took Magical Training and Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard/Sorcerer/whatever you need to boost your Magical Training caster level) then you could pick up item creation feats with the Chameleon Bonus Feat (as you could have taken them regularly - you've got a caster level, and that's all that is required to qualify).


If you want to go the "I can make anything" route, you probably want to take Craft Rod as a real feat. Many rods require two feats to make: Either Craft Magic Arms and Armor for the more weapon-y rods, or a metamagic feat, for metamagic rods. So you have Craft Rod as a regular feat, and use the changeable feat for whatever else you need.

This way, by making metamagic rods, you can also take advantage of metamagic feats even while you don't have the feat.
Quite workable, but as Craft Rod requires a caster level of 9, you'll probably need to take Practiced Spellcaster (whatever base class you're using to qualify) as well.

Oh, and some other tricks a Chameleon can pull off:
1) A higher Dispel check than a pure caster.
The Bard-5/Chameleon-10 has a chameleon caster level of 20 - which means Greater Dispel Magic runs at 1d20+20, vs. the Wizard-15's caster level of 15. Chameleons are good at dispelling things past about PrC level 5.
2) You can take spells off of any Divine spell caster's list when preparing and casting Divine Spells. Don't forget to check the Adept spell list - they've got Heal a level lower than the Cleric does, which means as a Chameleon, you can potentially get it a level before the Cleric does (you just need a sufficiently high Wis bonus). Further, the Adept actually gets a few blasty spells, too, so you can get them as Divine spells. Likewise, a Chameleon can take Reincarnate off of the Druid's list, and be getting slain party members back on their feet before the pure Cleric can (again, needs a high enough Wis bonus to get a bonus slot to put it in, due to the "0" so common on the Chameleon spell slot listing).

[Vexxation]

I wonder if Chameleon Factotum/Chameleon with Multiple Personality Disorder would make a good BBEG...

Stat out six versions. Each encounter roll a d6 to determine who the PCs meet. Fun!

Since a Chameleon Changeling is so good at disguise, he could even have personalities that are Good and disguise him to join them as an ally one day, a foe the next.

They might figure it out out of character, but in-character they'll never get it.

[CASTLEMIKE]

I wonder if Chameleon Factotum/Chameleon with Multiple Personality Disorder would make a good BBEG...

What about a PC mortally possessed and contested by several Vestiges?

[FMArthur]

2) You can take spells off of any Divine spell caster's list when preparing and casting Divine Spells. Don't forget to check the Adept spell list - they've got Heal a level lower than the Cleric does, which means as a Chameleon, you can potentially get it a level before the Cleric does (you just need a sufficiently high Wis bonus). Further, the Adept actually gets a few blasty spells, too, so you can get them as Divine spells. Likewise, a Chameleon can take Reincarnate off of the Druid's list, and be getting slain party members back on their feet before the pure Cleric can (again, needs a high enough Wis bonus to get a bonus slot to put it in, due to the "0" so common on the Chameleon spell slot listing).

*sigh*
You only get to prepare spells from one class's list at a time.


Arcane Focus: You gain the ability to prepare and cast arcane spells, which may be chosen from the spell list of any arcane spellcasting class.

Divine Focus: You gain the ability to prepare and cast divine spells, which may be chosen from the spell list of any divine spellcasting class

Notice that 'spell list' and 'spellcasting class' are singular. There's a reason that the class description (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1) (under Becoming a Chameleon) says "Chameleons who were spellcasters have a clear advantage, because their spell lists are not as limited." It's not there out of some error on the writer's part. They are not misunderstanding the way that their own class works. It is intended that you may only prepare spells from a single arcane list, and/or a single divine list, at a time. The choice of which list is still an incredibly versatile option to take advantage of, but you can't just compile a list of every good spell ever made 6th level and under and cast from it.

Sometimes people get carried away in character optimization, and start seeing only what they want to see, which is understandable given that it isn't something they dedicated a paragraph to stating (and probably should have), but it is unambiguously stated and not open to interpretation, if you want to follow the rules. It's easy to gloss over the lack of pluralization and the earlier descriptive text without even intending to, which is why this is such a common error.


EDIT: On Changeling Factotum Chameleons as BBEGs or bad NPCs in general: you will permanently slow down the game by 2 or 3 times in NPC-heavy areas, because your players will never again trust you that people are who they say they are. I've learned this from experience. Even after my players finally killed all of the CFC assassins, they still think I'm going to pull something similar on them every time they try to buy drinks, stay at an inn, recruit NPC party members. I once had a man who was kidnapped and interrogated for being nervous about selling horses to scary adventurers covered in blood, for crying out loud.

[CASTLEMIKE]

*sigh*
You only get to prepare spells from one class's list at a time.


He is probably using the Archivist spell list :smallsmile:

Agree with the trust issue once the DM/GM raises the bar and establishes the new standard for his campaign.

[FMArthur]

Archivists don't have spell lists. They use the cleric one (at least, that's what the Wizards site (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3) says), and are able to add other divine spells to their prayerbooks and cast them. It's not the same as having your own spell list.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Never mind

[tyckspoon]

Notice that 'spell list' and 'spellcasting class' are singular. There's a reason that the class description (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1) (under Becoming a Chameleon) says "Chameleons who were spellcasters have a clear advantage, because their spell lists are not as limited." It's not there out of some error on the writer's part. They are not misunderstanding the way that their own class works. It is intended that you may only prepare spells from a single arcane list, and/or a single divine list, at a time. The choice of which list is still an incredibly versatile option to take advantage of, but you can't just compile a list of every good spell ever made 6th level and under and cast from it.


I note that this doesn't actually stop the things Jack mentioned from working; you just can't do them at the same time. Say normally you choose to focus as an Adept, because it's actually a pretty nice shortlist for somebody with limited casting (and who can't convince his DM that all domain spells count as part of the cleric list). But then somebody dies, and you're not high enough level to grab Raise Dead with your Adept and/or Cleric focus. So the next day you reset your Divine Focus to mimic a Druid instead and use Reincarnate.

[FMArthur]

Whoops. I guess I just assumed people assumed the Chameleon could cast anything from one preparation, which I shouldn't have done. Sorry about that, Jack_Simth. Nonetheless, it is important to keep in mind, as it's an easy detail to miss and the mistake I was talking about (which hasn't happened in this thread) is one of the things some people like the most about the Chameleon class.