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AslanCross
2008-08-22, 05:49 PM
There's a new PDF on Star Pact fluff and crunch up on Wizards' site.

It's a pretty interesting read, especially since I've always been interested in astronomy. I find it creepy how the Astrolocks might actually being making pacts with world-eating tentacle monsters.

Also:
Prophecy of Deimos
“The world doesn’t end with water, fire, or cold. I’ve divined the coming apocalypse. It ends with tentacles!”

Japanese schoolgirls beware.

wodan46
2008-08-22, 05:57 PM
Link plz. Cmon, we're lazy.

AslanCross
2008-08-22, 06:03 PM
Linkie (http://wizards.com/files/366_Warlocks.pdf).

:P

RTGoodman
2008-08-22, 06:11 PM
Hmm... at first glance this looks similar to an article proposal I sent to Dragon about a month or so ago (which sort of combined the 4E Warlock with feats to make him more like the 3.x Binder with daily vestige-based power-switching and such). I guess I never heard back because they were already doing an article expanding on Star Pact Warlock stuff. Oh well. This one looks pretty cool, at least, though I didn't have a chance to read everything yet.

MammonAzrael
2008-08-22, 06:24 PM
i haven't looked over all of it, but I'm glad to see they're really giving out some good treatment.

And if I'm reading things correctly, Tiefling characters can now take Warlock Paragon Paths even if they're not Warlocks! Just take the Warlock multiclass feat, then Twofold Pact as your 11th level feat and you qualify!

...right?

FoE
2008-08-22, 06:56 PM
Interesting stuff. Some nice fluff, though the spells are a bit repetitive. (Wait ... did I see a spell in there that compels others to tell you the truth? Cool!)

A Star Pact warlock might be fun to play, actually ... you'd have a pretty tenous grip on reality.

AslanCross
2008-08-22, 07:12 PM
Interesting stuff. Some nice fluff, though the spells are a bit repetitive. (Wait ... did I see a spell in there that compels others to tell you the truth? Cool!)

A Star Pact warlock might be fun to play, actually ... you'd have a pretty tenous grip on reality.

Well, it certainly interested me the most when I first cracked open the 4e PHB. My current 3.5 campaign has the default 3.5 infernal warlock, while I've heard about others who did Fey. But 4e was the first time I'd heard of the astrolock, so it piqued my interest more than the others.

Viruzzo
2008-08-22, 07:16 PM
Also a new Epic Destiny at last! Not one of the best (too defensive for my tastes) but still nice.


And if I'm reading things correctly, Tiefling characters can now take Warlock Paragon Paths even if they're not Warlocks! Just take the Warlock multiclass feat, then Twofold Pact as your 11th level feat and you qualify.
Pact Initiate gives you access to Warlock PPs, it says so explicitly. Still Twofold pact seems really nice, especially for Star Warlocks since they have to specialize in both Cha and Con.

Blackdrop
2008-08-22, 07:23 PM
...Woah...

Charity
2008-08-22, 09:16 PM
Well there is nothing like contributing intelligently to a discussion.


i haven't looked over all of it, but I'm glad to see they're really giving out some good treatment.

And if I'm reading things correctly, Tiefling characters can now take Warlock Paragon Paths even if they're not Warlocks! Just take the Warlock multiclass feat, then Twofold Pact as your 11th level feat and you qualify!

...right?


Also a new Epic Destiny at last! Not one of the best (too defensive for my tastes) but still nice.


Pact Initiate gives you access to Warlock PPs, it says so explicitly. Still Twofold pact seems really nice, especially for Star Warlocks since they have to specialize in both Cha and Con.

The problem was never that you didn't qualify for the PP. The problem is that to make use of them you needed to have the ability to curse, which this feat still doesn't give you... The one thing the article does give you is a warlock PP that doesn't rely on the curse ability so heavily, so it is halfway useful.

I too like that compelling to tell the truth utility, you could have a lot of fun with that... soon my doppleganger feylock soon...

Gavin Sage
2008-08-22, 09:27 PM
Yah know something funny. In the back for epic destiny you can become immortal and it talks about gaining a constellation.

Apparently Raistlin should have taken up as a Warlock and not had to destroy the universe. :smallconfused:

Kiara LeSabre
2008-08-22, 09:44 PM
I think we finally have an epic destiny that can fully compete in power with demigod. :smalleek:

Dhavaer
2008-08-22, 09:48 PM
Something I only noticed when reading the thread on the Wizards board: the feat that increases tiefling's fire resistance isn't just increasing it to +8, it's increasing the bonus to equal level instead of half level. That's a lot of extra fire resistance.

RTGoodman
2008-08-22, 09:58 PM
I've just gotten a chance to read over the majority of the article, and I'm impressed. There's some really cool (and really powerful stuff) there. Starfire Womb, for instance, could be GREAT for a Paladin/Warlock (which, coincidentally, isn't a bad combination at all because of aligned stats). You'd basically get to roll saving throws every round since most of your powers would have the Radiant or Fear keywords. Also, the Star Flesh power from the Epic Destiny is REALLY cool - you light everything up AND get a pretty big bonus to defenses until the end of the encounter? Yes, please!

Blackdrop
2008-08-22, 10:01 PM
Something I only noticed when reading the thread on the Wizards board: the feat that increases tiefling's fire resistance isn't just increasing it to +8, it's increasing the bonus to equal level instead of half level. That's a lot of extra fire resistance.

That seems really strong. At level 30 you resist fire 43 (5+15 from natural fire resistance and 8+15 for the feat)

Scratch that. It's 23 not 43.

Dhavaer
2008-08-22, 10:08 PM
That seems really strong. At level 30 you resist fire 43 (5+15 from natural fire resistance and 8+15 for the feat)

Scratch that. It's 23 not 43.

No, it's 38. 30 from level and 8 from the feat.

Moose Fisher
2008-08-22, 10:39 PM
Palalock of Tharzidun anyone?

I'm predicting Wizards will either:
A)Make a 'fixed' version
B)Answer a lot of questions

Blackdrop
2008-08-22, 10:42 PM
^^^Exactly^^^

Speaking of Tiefling Palalock, If you took pact initiate as your multiclass and then took Two-Fold Pact, would the second at-will granted behave as the first one?

ZeroSpace9000
2008-08-22, 11:12 PM
There's just one thing I gotta comment on. The lvl 19 daily power 'Dark Side of the Moon'. Pink Floyd much?

Jothki
2008-08-23, 12:06 AM
Hmm, could you spam Troublesome Aid of Calphon while being healed out of combat?

Frownbear
2008-08-23, 12:13 AM
There's just one thing I gotta comment on. The lvl 19 daily power 'Dark Side of the Moon'. Pink Floyd much?
No.

Be a man!
You must be swift as the coursing river,
(Be a man!) With all the force of the great typhoon,
(Be a man!) With all the strength of a raging tiger--
Mysterious as the dark side of the moooooooooooon!

Time is racing towards us,
'Til the Huns, arrive...
Heed my every order
And you might, survive!

RTGoodman
2008-08-23, 12:19 AM
There's just one thing I gotta comment on. The lvl 19 daily power 'Dark Side of the Moon'. Pink Floyd much?

Hey, the designers are people, too, despite what some may claim. They have a bunch of references, allusions, and little jokes through-out a lot of books.

I mean, one Warlord power is called "Leaf on the Wind" or something like that, and I can't think that it didn't come from the obvious source. (Serenity, for the uninitiated.) It was that way in 3.x, too - look at the result for (1)00 on the table of "Random NPC Traits and Quirks" or whatever it's called, and then get back to me. :smalltongue:

AslanCross
2008-08-23, 03:39 AM
No.

Be a man!
You must be swift as the coursing river,
(Be a man!) With all the force of the great typhoon,
(Be a man!) With all the strength of a raging tiger--
Mysterious as the dark side of the moooooooooooon!

Time is racing towards us,
'Til the Huns, arrive...
Heed my every order
And you might, survive!

Somehow, this power actually manages to relate Mulan, Pink Floyd, and a very disturbing mental image. A triumph of pop culture, indeed.

Tengu_temp
2008-08-23, 04:33 AM
Since all 4e characters I've seen so far have horrible luck with rolls, especially attack rolls with encounter powers, Sacrifice to Caiphon is a very good feat.


Somehow, this power actually manages to relate Mulan, Pink Floyd, and a very disturbing mental image.

So disturbing just looking at it causes damage!

ghost_warlock
2008-08-23, 04:42 AM
Anyone else notice that Student of Caiphon grants a utility rather than a daily attack at 20th?

I expect that to be changed when the .pdf is compiled.

Adumbration
2008-08-23, 05:07 AM
There should be one more personality archetype... Someone who not only seeks wisdom and knowledge with enormous disregard for the price you have to pay, but someone who willingly embraces the madness, staring at the stars long into the night, looking for that one glimpse of star turning into an eye. Someone who ... cultivates the madness.

Even though I don't play 4e, I think the next time I play DnD 3.5, I'll play Warlock and re-fluff it into an astrolock.

Frownbear
2008-08-23, 05:38 AM
There should be one more personality archetype... Someone who not only seeks wisdom and knowledge with enormous disregard for the price you have to pay, but someone who willingly embraces the madness, staring at the stars long into the night, looking for that one glimpse of star turning into an eye. Someone who ... cultivates the madness.

No, there shouldn't! Let's not ENCOURAGE people to play "LOL I AM SO CRAZY AND INSAAAANE" characters. We all know what happened with Malkavians in V:tM.

Lady Tialait
2008-08-23, 05:44 AM
No, there shouldn't! Let's not ENCOURAGE people to play "LOL I AM SO CRAZY AND INSAAAANE" characters. We all know what happened with Malkavians in V:tM.

Yeah, they continued to be part of the Requiem...as Ventrue...*slaps Frownbear with a broken mirror*

Adumbration
2008-08-23, 06:03 AM
I don't. What are you talking about?

EDIT: And by the way, I'm not talking about the barking mad ones, they are already described in the pdf. I'm talking about the neatly dressed, meticulous fellers who just enjoy the look of a tentacled star. The ones that think about the green star on purpose, dwelling on it.

Malek
2008-08-23, 07:45 AM
Wooo, Twofold Pact <3 Now I can make Infernal pact Life-Stealer and still have Dark pact's Darkspiral Aura for even more Richardness (http://www.lfgcomic.com/). The rest of the stuff I only skimmed over (Star pact ain't exactly my warlock flavor of choice), but Rending Fear of K-whosisname looks interesting.

Grynning
2008-08-23, 09:57 AM
So, why is there a racial requirement on Two-fold Pact? The other tiefling only feat I can understand, because it works off of a tiefling racial ability, but being able to get the abilities of a second pact seems a bit too good to limit to one race (especially one that no one in my groups would ever play - hatred of the tieflings is fairly strong in my neck of the woods).

Starbuck_II
2008-08-23, 10:52 AM
So, why is there a racial requirement on Two-fold Pact? The other tiefling only feat I can understand, because it works off of a tiefling racial ability, but being able to get the abilities of a second pact seems a bit too good to limit to one race (especially one that no one in my groups would ever play - hatred of the tieflings is fairly strong in my neck of the woods).

If hatred of Tieflings is strong. Then this might entice them to switch to one.

Plus, the fluff of it makes sense. They are used to being part of a pact (the last one is in their blood).

Viruzzo
2008-08-23, 11:17 AM
And if you really want you can make an exception and give it to a non-Tiefling, it can make a quest hook too.
I still don't get what's supposed to be so wrong about Tieflings though, they also scream Warlock all over the place (even if they have a Cha bonus, I suppose is to prevent an excessive Infernal Pact clichè). What I do resent the lack of Aasimars (but will be there in another PHB I reckon).

Edea
2008-08-23, 11:35 AM
Yeah, that's too powerful (and too class-specific) for a racial feat. Sure, you can Rule 0 it away, but I'd rather it RAW that the race requirement be removed.

Mando Knight
2008-08-23, 04:38 PM
Since all 4e characters I've seen so far have horrible luck with rolls, especially attack rolls with encounter powers, Sacrifice to Caiphon is a very good feat.

Somehow, I've had the opposite luck with Encounter Powers. In one session, my party ran through 2 encounters and both times my Wizard used his Force Orb, it landed critical hits...

I also find it odd that only Tieflings can Two-Fold Pact... though its merely a "I want to have access to a Star-Fey Halfling Warlock," not "I hate the emo Tieflings with a passion that would tear Bael Turath down on its own."

FoE
2008-08-23, 05:00 PM
Wow, look at all the tiefling hate. Well, I absolutely love 'em, and I'm glad to see they're a player race now.

If you want to attach the "emo" label to anyone, then you should be taking a look at dark elves.

Mewtarthio
2008-08-23, 05:31 PM
I'm curious, though: What, exactly, is the fluff of the Twofold Pact?

"So, let me get this straight? You sould half your soul to the devil, and the other half to C'thulhu?"
"Pretty much."
"So, basically, when you die, two horrifically evil entities that live on opposite sides of the multiverse will both grab one end of you soul and pull?"
"I plan to just not die."

Myshlaevsky
2008-08-23, 05:37 PM
Twofold Pact is an unbalanced feat - I hope it gets a nerf when this stuff if reprinted. The other thing I dislike is the Athletics check with a DC of +1/2 your level + other stuff. The flavour of the article is lovely, but the rules have a few kinks.

Mando Knight
2008-08-23, 06:01 PM
Wow, look at all the tiefling hate. Well, I absolutely love 'em, and I'm glad to see they're a player race now.

If you want to attach the "emo" label to anyone, then you should be taking a look at dark elves.

Well, my statement about the Tieflings was more of a statement of what I've heard from others... I'm not really 4E PC racist (monster races, on the other hand...). I'd play a Tiefling (though probably not an Infernalock, probably a Paladin or Palalock), but first I have a few others I wanna play...

@Mewthario: I could see a more amusing one:
"So... you've sold your soul to the Fey, and to Asmodeus?"
"... yeah."
"How's that gonna work? They tear your soul in half when you die?"
"Nah, I'll just become a star and join C'thulu."

FoE
2008-08-23, 06:27 PM
Bad characters are possible with any PC race/class. I'll concede that, due to their "dark natures," tieflings (and by extension, warlocks) might be a more apt choice for your typical "Wangsty" hero. But really, you can accomplish the same effect with any class/race; just slap some dark clothing and some eyeshadow on 'em, throw in a "troubled past" and give them a propensity for writing self-indulgent poetry.

Revlid
2008-08-23, 06:46 PM
I'm curious, though: What, exactly, is the fluff of the Twofold Pact?

"So, let me get this straight? You sould half your soul to the devil, and the other half to C'thulhu?"
"Pretty much."
"So, basically, when you die, two horrifically evil entities that live on opposite sides of the multiverse will both grab one end of you soul and pull?"
"I plan to just not die."

... John Constantine?

ghost_warlock
2008-08-23, 11:20 PM
Wow, look at all the tiefling hate. Well, I absolutely love 'em, and I'm glad to see they're a player race now.

If you want to attach the "emo" label to anyone, then you should be taking a look at dark elves.

Personally, I don't love or hate tieflings - I see the race as a tool to achieving the sort of character I want to play. I have a tiefling paladin I made to get more mileage out of my bladeling miniature (http://www.legendgames.co.uk/acatalog/BladelingFighter.jpg) (my pally wields a falchion), which I may end up playing in a KotS game.

What I don't like is that tieflings seem to be getting an awful lot of warlock love - both in the core and now in DRAGON. It ends up pigeonholing the race and leading to the sorts of things where I say I want to play a half-elf warlock and someone replies: "dood, play a tiefling, they're such oober 'locks and half-elves sux!"

Where's the half-elf-only or halfling-only feats? Or githyanki? Or hobgoblin? Any of these (and a few others) would make just as good of candidates for warlock racials. Half-elves could especially use some love, imo. Really, they need all the help they can get if WotC doesn't want them to be a joke race like they were in 3.5.

FoE
2008-08-23, 11:52 PM
Personally, I don't love or hate tieflings - I see the race as a tool to achieving the sort of character I want to play. I have a tiefling paladin I made to get more mileage out of my bladeling miniature (http://www.legendgames.co.uk/acatalog/BladelingFighter.jpg) (my pally wields a falchion), which I may end up playing in a KotS game.

What I don't like is that tieflings seem to be getting an awful lot of warlock love - both in the core and now in DRAGON. It ends up pigeonholing the race and leading to the sorts of things where I say I want to play a half-elf warlock and someone replies: "dood, play a tiefling, they're such oober 'locks and half-elves sux!"

Where's the half-elf-only or halfling-only feats? Or githyanki? Or hobgoblin? Any of these (and a few others) would make just as good of candidates for warlock racials. Half-elves could especially use some love, imo. Really, they need all the help they can get if WotC doesn't want them to be a joke race like they were in 3.5.

Fair points all. I just resent the implication that, if I choose to play a tiefling, I'm automatically making a Sasuke Uchiha clone. :smalltongue:

"Hey, Face of Evil, you're really emo! You like to listen to emo bands like Linkin Park because you're emo!

... Have I mentioned you're emo?"

Kiara LeSabre
2008-08-24, 12:00 AM
Fair points all. I just resent the implication that, if I choose to play a tiefling, I'm automatically making a Sasuke Uchiha clone. :smalltongue:

"Hey, Face of Evil, you're really emo! You like to listen to emo bands like Linkin Park because you're emo!

... Have I mentioned you're emo?"

I only have one drow I play, and I feel like I'm almost obligated to pointedly differentiate her from Drizzt, so I can kind of relate.

And she's not even good. I hate Drizzt. :smallmad:

Myshlaevsky
2008-08-24, 12:05 AM
Just imagine being a Chaotic Good, Dual Scimitar Wielding Drow Ranger... trapped in a Tiefling Warlock's body.

Kiara LeSabre
2008-08-24, 12:18 AM
Just imagine being a Chaotic Good, Dual Scimitar Wielding Drow Ranger... trapped in a Tiefling Warlock's body.

I would wish to kill it with fire.

ghost_warlock
2008-08-24, 12:39 AM
Fair points all. I just resent the implication that, if I choose to play a tiefling, I'm automatically making a Sasuke Uchiha clone. :smalltongue:

"Hey, Face of Evil, you're really emo! You like to listen to emo bands like Linkin Park because you're emo!

... Have I mentioned you're emo?"

I really have to catch up with my lingo, I always thought 'emo' referred to depressed, semi-suicidal-to-get-attention, 'oh, woe is me'-type characters. Somehow, I just don't personally see tieflings filling this role. Goth maybe, but that's not really emo, is it? (I always thought of goths as being fascinated with/celebrating death/dying, and possibly black clothes & make-up, maybe with a penchant for vampires/Anne Rice novels, but goths aren't also necessarily crybabies - especially not these Goths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth)!)

Tieflings may have the tortured past or social stigma aspects of emo, but I typically think of emo as being more along the lines of a character that's unable to seek restitute for (possibly imagined) slights because of personal weakness or social powerlessness. I really don't see tielflings falling into that - they seem much too personally empowered. If you piss off/hurt a tiefling they're not going to go have a cry, they'll simply melt your face and laugh it off!

Myshlaevsky
2008-08-24, 12:47 AM
I would wish to kill it with fire.

It's Fire Resistant! It's Unstoppable! :smalltongue:

EDIT: On a more serious note, it's just daft to associate a specific behaviour pattern with a race. What matters is your character, and there are no restrictions on how to play that.

Edea
2008-08-24, 12:47 AM
I think 'emo' is being used here to describe 'serious business' and 'megadrama.' So perhaps 'drama queens' would be a more accurate description of the racial stereotype under examination.

As an example of a subversion, the Tiefling Starlock I just built is extremely gregarious, loves bodily humor and slapstick, laughs a lot, is built like a tank, and just shrugs whenever someone asks him about the past of his race, with the mantra "Eh, you learn from the mistakes and let the rest...well, rest!" He IS sensitive about his small horns, though >:3 (they're kinda like bull horns, just short and stubby).

ghost_warlock
2008-08-24, 01:06 AM
I think 'emo' is being used here to describe 'serious business' and 'megadrama.' So perhaps 'drama queens' would be a more accurate description of the racial stereotype under examination.

As an example of a subversion, the Tiefling Starlock I just built is extremely gregarious, loves bodily humor and slapstick, laughs a lot, is built like a tank, and just shrugs whenever someone asks him about the past of his race, with the mantra "Eh, you learn from the mistakes and let the rest...well, rest!" He IS sensitive about his small horns, though >:3 (they're kinda like bull horns, just short and stubby).

Tangent Alert!

As I alluded to, above, my tiefling pally doesn't have horns. Instead, he's covered in short, sharp-but-pliable spikes.

When I was first creating the character, I was working on the assumption that it was female and I wanted it to look sort of like a draenei. I have no idea why. :smallsigh: Possibly because of WotC's tiefling/gnome video (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/toon/20071219a). In the end, I ended up switching up the cosmetics because:
I really don't want to feed into any more WoW/4e comparisons.
I'm not sure the group I'll be playing with can handle a *gasp* FEMALE character.
I don't have a mini that looks anything like a female draenei and matching the character to the mini is somewhat important to me for some reason.

Ned the undead
2008-08-24, 11:24 AM
Twofold Pact is an unbalanced feat - I hope it gets a nerf when this stuff if reprinted. The other thing I dislike is the Athletics check with a DC of +1/2 your level + other stuff. The flavour of the article is lovely, but the rules have a few kinks.

But Wizards can have two Implement Masteries eh?

Myshlaevsky
2008-08-24, 11:25 AM
But Wizards can have two Implement Masteries eh?

But not only Tiefling Wizards.

EDIT: In any case, are you honestly saying that another at-will power, along with a benefit that has no statistic requirement is equivalent to the wizard's second implement mastery? Like the implement mastery, this is a must-have feat, and the fact that it's Tieflings-only is silly.

Viruzzo
2008-08-24, 12:04 PM
Racial feats are stronger than non-racial. It may be too good as it is, but making it non-tiefling would just mean handing out a second pact to every single Warlock.

Myshlaevsky
2008-08-24, 12:06 PM
Racial feats are stronger than non-racial. It may be too good as it is, but making it non-tiefling would just mean handing out a second pact to every single Warlock.

Case in point.

ghost_warlock
2008-08-24, 12:50 PM
Racial feats are stronger than non-racial. It may be too good as it is, but making it non-tiefling would just mean handing out a second pact to every single Warlock.

Personally, I think it'd work better as an epic feat available for all warlocks. Besides stuff from this supplement, and the Improved X-pact specific feats, the only feat that screams "take me, take me" for warlocks is Twofold Curse. Unless I'm mistaken, the Improved X-pact feats and Twofold Curse are the only core feats with the warlock tag - and you can only take one Improved X-pact w/o Twofold Pact.

The only class to get shafted harder is cleric with the 1-only Channel Divinity feats and no other cleric-specific feats. Str-based clerics can benefit from the various weapon feats at least, though.

(Paladins and rangers also get semi-shafted with the class-specific feats as well, but can gain tangible benefits from the various Weapon feats).

As a side note, I'm really beginning to hate the Astral Fire, Burning Blizzard, etc. feat lines. It seems that to gain much benefit from them you have to stack powers with the same type of damage, which means unless you're going fire (Irresistible Flame) you're going to have issues getting around energy resistances.

Zocelot
2008-08-24, 01:16 PM
Instead of giving Tiefling Warlocks 2 pacts, I'd treat it more like Multipacting.

Choose another pact
1/Encounter you can use the at-will of that pact
1/Encounter you gain the pact boon benefit of that pact instead of your original

No Tiefling Warlock would go without it, but it's not as overpowered either. If any of my players ask to take Twofold Pact, I'll give them this instead.

Blackdrop
2008-08-24, 01:16 PM
Yeah, why should only Tieflings get a bonus at-will. Oh. Wait.

If this had been a whole new thing, the getting an extra at-will, I would totally agree with the getting rid of the tiefling requirement for Two-Fold Pact. But since humans already get a free one, I don't see the problem.

Tieflings were, at one point, human and it makes a certain amount of sense that they would get a "humanesque" feat.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-08-24, 01:20 PM
As a side note, I'm really beginning to hate the Astral Fire, Burning Blizzard, etc. feat lines. It seems that to gain much benefit from them you have to stack powers with the same type of damage, which means unless you're going fire (Irresistible Flame) you're going to have issues getting around energy resistances.

The Heroic feats really do seem like traps. The Paragon feats are actually pretty good, though.

I'm thinking that the Heroics are really only good for a dedicated Blaster. Tiefling Infernal Warlocks can take their +1 for Fire & Fear, but for the others, you really need to choose your powers very carefully. Burning Blizzard isn't bad, because there are lots of cold powers, but there aren't a whole lot of acid attacks, and no acid at-will. Astral Fire works well for STR Paladins, of course... but for most classes they just don't seem like good ideas.

ghost_warlock
2008-08-24, 01:35 PM
The Heroic feats really do seem like traps. The Paragon feats are actually pretty good, though.

I'm thinking that the Heroics are really only good for a dedicated Blaster. Tiefling Infernal Warlocks can take their +1 for Fire & Fear, but for the others, you really need to choose your powers very carefully. Burning Blizzard isn't bad, because there are lots of cold powers, but there aren't a whole lot of acid attacks, and no acid at-will. Astral Fire works well for STR Paladins, of course... but for most classes they just don't seem like good ideas.

Astral Fire could also work out alright for a starlock very dedicated to the pact powers - many, especially in this supplement, use radiant damage. Unfortunately, most starlocks are already going to be suffering from MAD and may not be able to afford the 13 Dex needed for the feat. Many of the starlock powers also utilize Fear so tieflings do alright with slightly lower stats, but that's hardly a surprise as they're pretty much the iconic warlock race (however much I may bemoan that fact).