How many of you are disappointed with the use of *&%^ symbols?

[ZFR]

There are much more subtle ways of 'using' swear words in PG material, in such a way that technically they don't appear. And Rich has done a very good job of it in the past.

Replacing them with *^&$ is just taking the easy way out, no style about it. :(

On an unrelated side notice, in the same comic I really laughed at the "I'll miss all the kicks. WHUNK!!" :smallbiggrin:

(For future reference: this is comic 587 I'm referring to)

[Remirach]

I thought it was appropriate. The fact that it hasn't been used before, and is used now by an enraged Kazumi, serves to emphasize how righteously pissed she is: she's a'swearin' in a class all to herself.

[SPoD]

I think the point was not subtlety; Kazumi just started cussing like the soldier she is. Straightforward is more appropriate, but Rich didn't want to use those words, so...

So to answer your question, no, I'm not really disappointed at all.

[TreesOfDeath]

I don't give a **** about the swearing

[Dunamin]

I'm not disappointed either, on the contrary. It felt spot-on appropriate for a pregnant soldier to be that blunt and direct.

[Lissou]

Not really. After all, censuring swear words is pretty common in the US, so it stops sounding weird after a certain number of "beep"s and "*%$£"s.

The only question it raises, as far as I'm concerned, is whether the translation should have the actual words (like it's the case in dubs of American shows in countries where beeping swears isn't done), or whether it should be censured too for the effect.

[NerfTW]

Conversely, one could argue that using $%#^! as he did is in fact a style choice, and not a lack of style. Notice that she uses "asses" and "goddamn" in the rant. The two censored words allow for the reader's imagination to fill them in, preventing, among other things, the complaint that the two most likely suggestions are out of character for the setting. (Because those two words are usually viewed as "recent", despite their long history)

Plus, it makes the rant more amusing, since she's getting so pissed off that she's becoming incoherent in her rant.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I think the point was not subtlety; Kazumi just started cussing like the soldier she is. Straightforward is more appropriate, but Rich didn't want to use those words, so...
Exactly. Sometimes you need style and subtlety. Sometimes you need to blow up the china shop and the bull in it.

[Mastikator]

I'm a little disappointed that he'd censor the swearing, actually. Only a little though.

[Jayngfet]

I'm a little disappointed that he'd censor the swearing, actually. Only a little though.

Then we'd call him a hypocrite for using words we can't.

[Mc. Lovin']

I guess I hope the swearing don't continue, but i assume the reason it was put in was to break the mother stereotype even further

[pendell]

Not disappointed.

Kazumi is a pregnant woman. And in my limited experience, pregnant woman swear. A lot. Even the nice church lady ones, especially towards the later stages.

Not only that, but she's a soldier too. So you've got soldier language and pregnant woman language. It's a wonder she can't simply slay them all with a dirty look and language.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Flickerdart]

Not disappointed.

Kazumi is a pregnant woman. And in my limited experience, pregnant woman swear. A lot. Even the nice church lady ones, especially towards the later stages.

Not only that, but she's a soldier too. So you've got soldier language and pregnant woman language. It's a wonder she can't simply slay them all with a dirty look and language.

Respectfully,

Brian P.
And they're in a boat, so she has the added benefit of a sailor's vocabulary. It's a triple bonus!

[Chronos]

The only question it raises, as far as I'm concerned, is whether the translation should have the actual words (like it's the case in dubs of American shows in countries where beeping swears isn't done), or whether it should be censured too for the effect.Turn it into Euro signs, guillemets, and accent marks.

[T-O-E]

Would you rather her unborn child hear her uncensored swearing?

[Dacia Brabant]

Would you rather her unborn child hear her uncensored swearing?

Yes, actually. I for one would have preferred it if Mr. Burlew had used the proper words, even if offensive to some, and not censored them which is lame--but at least he didn't use fake swear words, which are far lamer.

Awesome comic nonetheless.

[NerfTW]

Yes, actually. I for one would have preferred it if Mr. Burlew had used the proper words, even if offensive to some, and not censored them which is lame--but at least he didn't use fake swear words, which are far lamer.

Awesome comic nonetheless.

Except that censoring them made the lines funnier. And what other reason would you have her go on that rant than to make fun of the concept of pregnent woman automatically turning into damsels in distress?

Also, the only people bothered by a lack of swear words are children who think it makes them sound like adults.

[NENAD]

I'm not in the least disappointed by the censors, because for some odd reason I'm not under the impression that vulgarity inexplicably makes any piece of writing better. Maybe I'm crazy.

What I was annoyed with is how the physical limitations of being pregnant were basically ignored. I've seen how awkward and difficult the most basic of motions are for a woman in the late stages of pregnancy. She'd probably have decent control of her arms, but everything else would be incredibly impaired. Admittedly, she doesn't move a whole lot in the strip, but she'd still get flanked twenty times in a few seconds if those ninja's knew half the rules for combat.

[RTGoodman]

Admittedly, she doesn't move a whole lot in the strip, but she'd still get flanked twenty times in a few seconds if those ninja's knew half the rules for combat.

Inverse Ninja Law. There's a bunch, so they all suck.


Like a lot of people, I could care less about the censoring. I fully expected this to be a thread about people mad at the Giant for including ANY cursing - I'm pretty sure we've had those before.

[Lord Herman]

The strange thing is, I think censor bleeps and %^#*s sound much more sweary and shocking than the actual swear words they're supposed to replace.

Or maybe I'm just easily startled by sudden loud bleeps.

[Totally Guy]

I was disappointed that the ^%$£"! technique was being used to censor a bad word. I mean the s-word appeared in full in start of darkness.

But then I have to balance that out with the time Elan was running around naked which was also censored. So I think the two cancel each other out.

[Dacia Brabant]

Except that censoring them made the lines funnier.

Your opinion. I personally think it's lame. I loved the rant though.


Also, the only people bothered by a lack of swear words are children who think it makes them sound like adults.

Don't forget us snobby language elitists who don't happen to like bowdlerized neologisms or text filters replacing a "bad word" with a bunch of meaningless symbols. I know, there are like ten of us in the whole world, but we do exist. :smallsmile:

[Jamin]

I was I mean I am not going to stop reading or anything but if he had used the full out swears I might have stopped buying his books as a form protest

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I was disappointed that the ^%$£"! technique was being used to censor a bad word. I mean the s-word appeared in full in start of darkness.
I think he lifted the PG-13 limitations for that book. Might as well, it's already 10 times darker than anything else in the the strip—except maybe the massacre of the Sapphire Guard.

[Wreckingrocc]

Maybe she's not swearing. Maybe she's saying the things that appear. Maybe Rich didn't wanna type, "exclaimation mark number symbol at symbol", and just wanted to use the symbols for her speech instead.

[Inhuman Bot]

Touche!
Also, I found it odd...
It didn't seem right, and sort odd to me. It's like coming home and having a walrus in your house. Odd, and kind of out of context.

[herrhauptmann]

I think it might have something to do with the 7 words you can't say on TV. (Not that I'm implying that Giant was making a George Carlin reference)

In deference to the original supreme court ruling, those words are: sh**, p*$$, f***, cu**, co**sucker, mother****er, and t!tS. With mother****er eventually being replaced in his skit with tw@t, because it was redundant with f*** already on the list.
Meanwhile, *****, box and snatch all have other meanings. "We're going to snatch that ***** and hide it in a box"

[Coffee_Dragon]

I found the whole tantrum awkward; the swearing was just part of it.

[Holammer]

I like the %^#*swearing. It got class, sorta like the stuff Mort Walker came up with for Beetle Bailey when Sarge had to swear in a way so papers wouldn't pull the strip. Using "Grawlixes" is as much style as there is really.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Whenever I see %^#* swearing I remember a joke from Asterix and the Goths. Early in the book we hear (I think) "skull, #, swirly, !, ?". A footnote reads "ancient gaulish swearwords that we refuse to translate".
Later we see a Goth say "skull in goth helmet, angular #, square swrily, bulky ! bulky ?" with a footnote that reads "Ancient gothic swearwords that translate into ancient gaulish as skull, #, swirly, !, ?"

[Manoftyr]

Your opinion. I personally think it's lame. I loved the rant though.



Don't forget us snobby language elitists who don't happen to like bowdlerized neologisms or text filters replacing a "bad word" with a bunch of meaningless symbols. I know, there are like ten of us in the whole world, but we do exist. :smallsmile:

And at least two on this forum apparently :smallwink:

[Paragon Badger]

So, what... You had no problem with 'bastard' and 'bitch' when they appeared in the comic?

[Mordokai]

Whenever I see %^#* swearing I remember a joke from Asterix and the Goths. Early in the book we hear (I think) "skull, #, swirly, !, ?". A footnote reads "ancient gaulish swearwords that we refuse to translate".
Later we see a Goth say "skull in goth helmet, angular #, square swrily, bulky ! bulky ?" with a footnote that reads "Ancient gothic swearwords that translate into ancient gaulish as skull, #, swirly, !, ?"

Teehee, that was a great one, wasn't it? :smallbiggrin:

On topic, I find it classy and not disturbing at all. Sure, I wouldn't find it disturbing even if full curses were used, but perhaps that's just me. In case like this, it'd be more weird if she wasn't cursing like an old sailor.

[Irenaeus]

No I was not.

But I was dissapointed that mr. Burlew did not use a more interesting set of iconography as a substitute. I point to the aforementioned Asterix series as a beautiful example.

I am largely indifferent, though.

[Toadie]

:eek:OMG!

Please!!! You curl when you see a character swearing though censored, but in other posts you "Go Belkar!!" when it comes to violence?

Remember:
http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/news/images/s/Sticker/sq-advisory-sticker.jpg

[mec]

It's a like a crossover from Something Positive!

Nope, not a bit disappointed.

[Graymayre]

I don't give a **** about the swearing

watch your $%^@ing mouth you ^@#$ on a #$%^ sandwich!

[dps]

[sarcasm mode]**** stupid **********ers complaining about the ******* cussing. What the *** is that **** about? I mean, *******. Some ***** are just ****** up. **** 'em all. ****![/sarcasm mode]

[Cilvyn]

i realy loved the last one with my pregnant heroine swearing all over tha place :D

[GTRanger]

I prefer the symbols to the swearwords themselves. I'm not a fan of her using all the swearwords though, even if they are censored.

[Toadie]

Some people with low spellcraft on this forum are afraid when somebody is cursing. Even if they take 20. Dispell magic folks :smallsmile:

[David Argall]

A fuss over nothing.

[Krade]

Having until just recently actually lived with a pregnant woman, I can say that I find Kazumi's language completely called for. It's one thing to threaten the life of a woman, but it's a whole other ball of wax to threaten a pregnant woman. I think it's one of those unwritten laws of the universe: "Don't mess with pregnant chicks. It's an all around bad decision." Not only are most women scary enough in thier own right (especially when they're fully armed soldiers), add on the genetic imperitive to protect the unborn child and you've got an angry hornet's nest that comes pre-poked with a stick before you even did anything.

And as for a woman that far along not being able to do all those things: who cares? Seriously. You can suspend disbelief enough to accept that your favorite little stick figures can do magic and come back from the dead, but for some reason it's too much to handle a pregnant chick flippin' out and killing a bunch of dudes?

You shouldn't be so selective with you disbelief suspension. It's unhealthy.

[Ghastly Epigram]

While I do not have a problem with it in itself, what I DO have a problem with is people thinking if you replace some of the letters with symbols or asterisks or what have you it automatically becomes OK. We all know what it means, but as soon as you actually spell it out GASP! Offensive city! :smallconfused:

[Lissou]

No I was not.

But I was dissapointed that mr. Burlew did not use a more interesting set of iconography as a substitute. I point to the aforementioned Asterix series as a beautiful example.

I am largely indifferent, though.

But then people would take offense for the speech being more graphically detailled than the characters.

[Hithros]

Every time I see a "swear word," even if it is a bunch of symbols, I flinch inwardly. But for some reason I accept them more easily than if someone had written the word out....

[ZFR]

Some people with low spellcraft on this forum are afraid when somebody is cursing. Even if they take 20. Dispell magic folks :smallsmile:


:eek:OMG!

Please!!! You curl when you see a character swearing though censored, but in other posts you "Go Belkar!!" when it comes to violence?




So, what... You had no problem with 'bastard' and 'bitch' when they appeared in the comic?

In case I wasn't understood properly...
I am not against her swearing, and I agree that in her position, swearing was called for.

I just found the method of replacing swear words with ^%$& lame. I think Rich could've thought of some better way to have her actually swear.

That Asterix thing was a good example example. I'm not saying Rich shouldv'e used the exactly same thing, but I'm sure he could've come up with something better here than just plain dull censoring.

[Lissou]

In case I wasn't understood properly...
I am not against her swearing, and I agree that in her position, swearing was called for.

I just found the method of replacing swear words with ^%$& lame. I think Rich could've thought of some better way to have her actually swear.

That Asterix thing was a good example example. I'm not saying Rich shouldv'e used the exactly same thing, but I'm sure he could've come up with something better here than just plain dull censoring.

I like how they do it in some other comics: they draw a sign over the words, with "censored" on it.
The funny part is, now some people (including me) us "Censored!" as a curse word because that's what people usually "say" when tey swear.
(well, used to, anyways. Comic book censure was pretty bad in the 50s in France for some reason)

[R.O.A.]

While I do not have a problem with it in itself, what I DO have a problem with is people thinking if you replace some of the letters with symbols or asterisks or what have you it automatically becomes OK. We all know what it means, but as soon as you actually spell it out GASP! Offensive city! :smallconfused:

Using symbols isn't just about preventing offense. It also means people (children) who don't know the swear word don't learn it here!

[Lissou]

Using symbols isn't just about preventing offense. It also means people (children) who don't know the swear word don't learn it here!

Yeah, because there totally are children who can already read but don't know these words yet >.>

[ZFR]

I like how they do it in some other comics: they draw a sign over the words, with "censored" on it.
The funny part is, now some people (including me) us "Censored!" as a curse word because that's what people usually "say" when tey swear.
(well, used to, anyways. Comic book censure was pretty bad in the 50s in France for some reason)

Oh yeah, you just reminded me of something.

In an earlier comic, Xykon's speech bubble had something along the lines "I hope they don't attack the gate. *wink* *wink*" And Redcloak replies, I don't think that's how it works, you actually said the words wink wink"

Maybe she could've had "censored" in her speech bubble, and one of the ninjas correcting her on the side that she actually uttered the word "censored" instead of the swear word.

[nosignal]

Yes, actually. I for one would have preferred it if Mr. Burlew had used the proper words, even if offensive to some, and not censored them which is lame--but at least he didn't use fake swear words, which are far lamer.

Awesome comic nonetheless.

Shut your gorram mouth
/i kid

[Totally Guy]

Shut your gorram mouth
/i kid

The whole point is swearing is that it ain't appropriate.

[Mastikator]

Randomly murdering strangers is less appropriate. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0539.html)
People cheer when the sanctity of life is violated, but fuss over naughty words?

Interesting.

[lord_khaine]

i actualy found that replacing the words with ¤%# made the sentence appear more angry and offensive, and that it was oddly appropriate for the situation, so in the end the comic was richer for it.

also, she is a level 6 char against what is proberly level 1 ninjas without the element of surprise, i dont have any problems with her laying waste to them.

[black_Lizzard]

so in the end the comic was richer for it.

hehe, "richer" for it. :smallbiggrin:

[FujinAkari]

Yeah, because there totally are children who can already read but don't know these words yet >.>

I for one didn't know about a LOT of curse words until I was an adolescent.

Not everyone lives in your neighborhood, don't make sweeping generalizations about the entirety of the planet.

[Chronos]

Yeah, because there totally are children who can already read but don't know these words yet >.>Quite possibly. I used to babysit a kid once, who was around 8 years old, and once accidentally used the word "jerk" in front of him. Turns out, it was the strongest word he knew. And if Order of the Stick had been around at that time, he's the sort who probably would have been reading it.

[Irenaeus]

I for one didn't know about a LOT of curse words until I was an adolescent.

Not everyone lives in your neighborhood, don't make sweeping generalizations about the entirety of the planet.How about sweeping generalizations about internet access? I felt that was kind of implied by the "knows how to read" part. I would guess that any kind who has fount OOTS on the web will already have seen quite a lot.

On an almost completely unrelated note: My grandmother thinks kids who curse are cute.

On another only slightly related note: this discussion makes me feel very unfamiliar with American customs and values. Censoring swearwords are not common over here. Not at all.

[Ascension]

Quite possibly. I used to babysit a kid once, who was around 8 years old, and once accidentally used the word "jerk" in front of him. Turns out, it was the strongest word he knew. And if Order of the Stick had been around at that time, he's the sort who probably would have been reading it.

I have been told (though I don't remember it) that I used to go into total freak out mode whenever I saw a babysitter or my parents watching a TV show or news report with a gun in it because my mother was so worried I might grow up to be a violent adult she more or less banned me even thinking about weapons.

That was before I started going to public school in Kindergarten.

It took less than a month of exposure to the outside world to get me building toy guns for myself out of Duplos.

If I had had a similar reaction to my first exposure to cursing, I'd probably be a dock hand by now.

[T-O-E]

Randomly murdering strangers is less appropriate. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0539.html)
People cheer when the sanctity of life is violated, but fuss over naughty words?

Interesting.

Actually, quite a few "I used to like Belkar but now he's crossed the line" threads appeared when that comic was posted.

[vbushido]

Every time I see a "swear word," even if it is a bunch of symbols, I flinch inwardly. But for some reason I accept them more easily than if someone had written the word out....

Which is, stylistically, why I prefer the symbolix swearing. My mind goes to far weirder and imaginative places if I'm not sure what the cussword is.

Although, inventing swear words (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5q3TG5yCG0)has its own charms.

-----
The problem with trouble-shooting is that trouble shoots back

[Setra]

If you were disappointed by the lack of swearing maybe you should read a more mature comic?

Honestly I find the little symbols hilarious.

[busterswd]

Meh. This operates under the same concept as Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which was pretty damn successful.

Step 1: Helpless woman is stalked by deadly assailant.
Step 2: Assailant attacks.
Step 3: Hilarity ensures as the impossibly competent woman beats him within an inch of his life before finishing him off.

The cursing is pretty much Kaizumi entering "pissed off badass mode" and I think the censored symbols nicely emphasize how much the usually proper Kaizumi isn't going to take anyone's guff.

[Emanick]

Every time I see a "swear word," even if it is a bunch of symbols, I flinch inwardly. But for some reason I accept them more easily than if someone had written the word out....

To add my vote here, I'm the same way. But in this case the "flinch" was overruled by my relief that the Giant draws lines at some words.
The point isn't that many of us don't know what [specific] swear words are. Most of us do. The point is that many of us, possibly not the majority, especially not on a forum of teenagers and young adults (the majority of us, anyway), don't like seeing swear words. If you read the comic for profanities, or object when there is an omission of them, well...quite odd.
And for the record, swearing, while it may make sense within the context, doesn't make it any more 'mature.' It just makes the entire comic enjoyable for fewer people, even if those people aren't one of you.

[John Campbell]

Kazumi is a pregnant woman. And in my limited experience, pregnant woman swear. A lot. Even the nice church lady ones, especially towards the later stages.

Not only that, but she's a soldier too. So you've got soldier language and pregnant woman language. It's a wonder she can't simply slay them all with a dirty look and language.
Ah, yes, the dreaded power word @#!%.


Seriously, folks... they're words. They have meanings... including, as in any living language, connotations that aren't necessarily in the dictionary. You use 'em when they're the right words, and don't when they aren't. If you use them when they're not, you weaken their meaning, so they don't work as well when they are the right ones. If you don't use them when they are the right ones, you're not using the language at your disposal as effectively as you could.

I have no respect for bowlderization. If they're the right words, use 'em; if they're not, don't. Don't kind of half-use them while pretending you're not.

[busterswd]

Ah, yes, the dreaded power word @#!%.


Seriously, folks... they're words. They have meanings... including, as in any living language, connotations that aren't necessarily in the dictionary. You use 'em when they're the right words, and don't when they aren't. If you use them when they're not, you weaken their meaning, so they don't work as well when they are the right ones. If you don't use them when they are the right ones, you're not using the language at your disposal as effectively as you could.

I have no respect for bowlderization. If they're the right words, use 'em; if they're not, don't. Don't kind of half-use them while pretending you're not.

The poster's response above you nicely sums up my feelings regarding symbol euphemisms: sometimes the prospect of a swear word has a greater impact than the actual curse word, just as hinting at something can have a greater mental impact then actually showing the deed.

[Toadie]

So if it's christmas you don't unpack your presents? Because it's the gift that counts not what's inside of the box? :smallbiggrin:

[Setra]

The poster's response above you nicely sums up my feelings regarding symbol euphemisms: sometimes the prospect of a swear word has a greater impact than the actual curse word, just as hinting at something can have a greater mental impact then actually showing the deed.
Like the monster in Cloverfield :smalltongue:

[busterswd]

So if it's christmas you don't unpack your presents? Because it's the gift that counts not what's inside of the box? :smallbiggrin:

Sarcasm? Because for a lot of people, including me, the prospect of the presents outweighs actually using the present and growing bored of it in a lot of cases. To use a more risque concept: why do people foreplay, ever?

[Albub]

I like to think that the first censored word was 'cake' and the second one was 'love.'

[LordVader]

There are much more subtle ways of 'using' swear words in PG material, in such a way that technically they don't appear. And Rich has done a very good job of it in the past.

Replacing them with *^&$ is just taking the easy way out, no style about it. :(

On an unrelated side notice, in the same comic I really laughed at the "I'll miss all the kicks. WHUNK!!" :smallbiggrin:

(For future reference: this is comic 587 I'm referring to)

Not really. In a webcomic about stick figures I'm not really worried about mature swears.

In fact, I could care less if they used the "big swears" anyways, "crap" and "damn" are usually enough to indicate anger or "we're screwed" in a webcomic.

[Toadie]

Sarcasm? Because for a lot of people, including me, the prospect of the presents outweighs actually using the present and growing bored of it in a lot of cases.

Well why do you open them then if it doesn't matter what's inside?


To use a more risque concept: why do people foreplay, ever?

I don't know. Ask somebody who is a woman. (No offence ladies)

[NerfTW]

I have no respect for bowlderization. If they're the right words, use 'em; if they're not, don't. Don't kind of half-use them while pretending you're not.

I keep seeing that word. But it doesn't apply here.

First of all, it requires REMOVING the adult material. Which is impossible if it was never there in the first place.

Second, it assumes this wasn't simply a style choice, and a legitimate one at that. This is a humor comic. Symbol swearing is humerous. It adds to the humor of a pregnent woman beating down 10 ninjas.
If you don't find it humerous, fine, but don't complain that the author is going out of his way to be "PC" when there are penis fondling jokes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0028.html) in the comic.

[Warren Dew]

I was disappointed that Kazumi couldn't come up with more inventive, and funnier, curses; she seemed smarter than that. Being a soldier would excuse every other word being a swear word in normal conversation, but presumably she's angry enough that it's not just normal conversation again at the end.

Then again, I don't buy into the dated stereotype that women are fragile, let alone pregnant women, so I didn't find the sequence particularly funny anyway. Obviously it worked for a lot of people, though.

[MyrddinDerwydd]

what, you're disappointed that a comic drawn with lines and squiggles used lines and squiggles to cuss someone out? :smallamused::amused::smallamused: OOTS Rocks.

Oh, and to whoever it was that posted just above me about only "buying into" this comic if we think of women as stereotypically fragile--if that were true, then doesn't that mean that someone can't appreciate a guy saving someone or kicking butt unless they "buy into" the stereotype of a male muscle monster of over-chivalrousness? :smallwink:

[busterswd]

Well why do you open them then if it doesn't matter what's inside?



I don't know. Ask somebody who is a woman. (No offence ladies)

Because anticipation is part of the experience that makes presents richer. The gift itself is great, yes, but we have entire holidays devoted to the anticipation.

Ask yourself, why do people even gift wrapping presents in the first place? Better yet, why bother with presents, period, instead of giving someone the cash they'd need to buy whatever they'd want? It's a waste of materials, money, and time. There's something about putting a tantalizing package out in plain site that could really be anything helps you get psyched up about what could be inside.

It's possible you're too practical to get hyped up about hypothetical gifts, but personally, I find the ambiguous nature of a wrapped present to be far more appealing than someone just giving you 40 bucks and saying "OK, go to the nearest electronics store and get whatever you want." Of course, getting a bad gift on the other hand does take away from it, but still.


Edit:
Then again, I don't buy into the dated stereotype that women are fragile, let alone pregnant women, so I didn't find the sequence particularly funny anyway. Obviously it worked for a lot of people, though.

Women are fragile? Not really, there have been studies showing women to be stronger than men. Pregnant women are fragile? Yes, yes, a thousand times yes, if not for the woman herself, than for the infant inside of her. It's not a matter of stereotyping, the developmental stage of any creature is highly sensitive.

[Warren Dew]

Oh, and to whoever it was that posted just above me about only "buying into" this comic if we think of women as stereotypically fragile--if that were true, then doesn't that mean that someone can't appreciate a guy saving someone or kicking butt unless they "buy into" the stereotype of a male muscle monster of over-chivalrousness? :smallwink:

I think you may have misread me. I think one has to buy into the fragile female stereotype in order to think the comic funny, not vice versa. If one thinks, in contrast, that most pregnant women are tough, perhaps surly, and sometimes borderline out of control in the first place, then the comic just documents expected behavior. That's boring, not funny.

Buying into the male stereotype you mention would not make the mentioned behavior funny, either - just expected. I suppose it might make Elan funny, though, since he breaks that stereotype.

Edit:


Pregnant women are fragile? Yes, yes, a thousand times yes, if not for the woman herself, than for the infant inside of her. It's not a matter of stereotyping, the developmental stage of any creature is highly sensitive.

They are also cushioned by the best protection nature can come up with. This is why places which do require special car seats for infants after being born still don't require any more protection for pregnant women than for other adults.

Now, they are developmentally sensitive in other ways, which explains the peanut butter and pickle sandwiches. I would have found that part funny if Daigo had said "No mayonnaise this time?" instead of "Ewww ...".

And, uh ... swearing at the ninjas for interfering with her sandwich. Now, that could have been funny.

[busterswd]

They are also cushioned by the best protection nature can come up with. This is why places which do require special car seats for infants after being born still don't require any more protection for pregnant women than for other adults.

Eh, nature's done better protections. :-P

Anyway on top of the mother having a distended frame and significantly more body weight adding to the stress of ADL (I don't care if you're a man or a woman, carrying around weight on your stomach for 9 months straight without a rest is tiring), undue physical stress or chemical imbalances (FAS babies, for example) have been known to adversely affect the baby. Babies do have some pretty potent protections, but if the mother body thinks the mother's health is being threatened too much, the body's natural defenses will ensure the health of the mother over her baby. There's a reason pregnancy leave is mandated by law, and it's not just due to outdated stereotypes.

[vbushido]

I don't know. Ask somebody who is a woman. (No offence ladies)

*blink* *blink* Wow. That explains your position perfectly.

-----
It's ok to re-invent the wheel, but I hate hearing people argue about how many corners it should have

[chibibar]

first of all, I don't mind the alternative text, I don't think it is "bad form" for Rich. I think the alternative text is a bit mild considering have accompany some of my friends who were pregnant, trust me, when it is labor time, you get to hear all kinds of words that you didn't think it exist.

[Kilbia]

and you've got an angry hornet's nest that comes pre-poked with a stick before you even did anything.

This is just an awesome metaphor. I may steal it.

And personally, I am not offended by the swear words. In fact, I think they strengthen her point. IMO, the point of Kazumi's whole rant was how stupid it was that the ninjas *would* assume she's fragile because she's female and pregnant. I think including the obscenities just helps cement the notion that no, she's *not* some dainty delicate flower. She's not going to scream and beg for mercy 'cause OMG you knocked out her husband and now nobody will protect her - she can protect herself just fine, thank you, and now you've just given her one more reason to commence the ass-whooping.

That, and while I never intend to have children, I know for a $#&^ fact that if my life were threatened, *I* would be busting out the obscenities as I fought back against my attacker. I'd have found it weird if she *hadn't*.

(Oh, and in case the question was something else altogether: I am glad that the egregious obscenities were hidden behind symbols. It helps maintain the "good guy" image[1] for me, and the symbol cryptography is a time-honored technique.)

[1] When I was a senior in high school, I was in a performance of "Little Shop of Horrors", and I noticed that only the bad guys had obscenities in their lines. I found that interesting. What I found *awesome* was that Scrivello's cuss-line is "Jesus, I could asphyxiate in here!", but the guy who played Scrivello insisted on swapping out the S-word. 'Cause the s-word is just an obscenity. The J-name in that context is genuinely taking the name in vain and he wasn't comfortable doing that. I just thought that was awesome - both that he was that dedicated to his faith and that he understood the difference between obscenity and profanity.

[ZFR]

Not really. In a webcomic about stick figures I'm not really worried about mature swears.

In fact, I could care less if they used the "big swears" anyways, "crap" and "damn" are usually enough to indicate anger or "we're screwed" in a webcomic.

I'm * NOT * worried * about * mature * swears. * I * just * found * the * way * they * are * replaced * with * symbols * to * be * silly

Just a bit silly/lame.

Not completely terrible. Just below-par. Not up to Rich's usually high standards.

I just thought he could've invented something better.

Like before when he introduced "mature" words. Treasure type O, dmilf... etc

[Jayabalard]

To use a more risque concept: why do people foreplay, ever?Because it's fun.

[black_Lizzard]

I'm * NOT * worried * about * mature * swears. * I * just * found * the * way * they * are * replaced * with * symbols * to * be * silly

Just a bit silly/lame.


Yea, that would have been annoying. But wait, that's not how he typed in the comic.

[Equester]

Using symbols isn't just about preventing offense. It also means people (children) who don't know the swear word don't learn it here!

but the same children who can read and browse the internet (but dosn't know swearwords), learns it is okay to murder things....

I really don't undestand people who are okay with violence, but flinch at swearwords and nudity/sex...
its the same kind of people that gasp at bull-****, but writes bs themself thinking its okay. hipocrits

[Laurentio II]

Short answer: I got mildly disappointed.

[AlexanderRM]

Randomly murdering strangers is less appropriate. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0539.html)
People cheer when the sanctity of life is violated, but fuss over naughty words?

And the most amusing part is that Belkar swears uncensored in the comic right after that.

I actually found the use of *#@% very amusing... "you stupid piece of @#%#@" is a lot funnier than, say... well, having "you stupid piece of [blocked by somebodies' head]", for example, is also pretty funny, but it's kinda overused.



Ah, yes, the dreaded power word @#!%.

I must research that spell someday.



Seriously, folks... they're words. They have meanings... including, as in any living language, connotations that aren't necessarily in the dictionary. You use 'em when they're the right words, and don't when they aren't. If you use them when they're not, you weaken their meaning, so they don't work as well when they are the right ones. If you don't use them when they are the right ones, you're not using the language at your disposal as effectively as you could.

I have no respect for bowlderization. If they're the right words, use 'em; if they're not, don't. Don't kind of half-use them while pretending you're not.
But the whole point of swearin' is that it ain't appropriate!

[hamishspence]

I liked Mount Zogon's cheeky reference to a anethesizing spell: one word, expressed in symbols, when the druid character gets her hand bitten off.

Galena the Druid, like Kev the Tief, are very Belkarish in the sense of being somewhere between Heroic Sociopath and Villainous Protagonist.

[AlexanderRM]

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, I kept thinking about it and I just had to put the rules for it somewhere...



Power Word @#%@#%
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action, or 1 round
Range: Special, see text
Target: Special, see text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell resistance: Yes

You utter a single word of such profanity that all creatures (except for you) hearing it must succeed on a will save or be severely offended: treat this as being stunned for a number of rounds equal to your caster level. A creature with 5 or more ranks in knowledge (arcana) receives a +2 bonus on this save. If a subject hears the word, but the sound (or what got to them) is distorted so that they cannot understand it, they are unaffected. Any creature with an intelligence score that can hear can be affected by this spell, regardless of what languages they speak. Using the spell in this way is a standard action.

[I]Power Word @#%@#% can also be cast in written form. If this is done, the casting time is increased to a full-round action, and the spell has a duration of one day, after which the word fades and is unreadable. Any creature reading the word if affected as if they had heard the spell in verbal form. This form of the spell can affect any sighted creature with an intelligence score, however, the word must be read, simply seeing it is not enough, so creatures that cannot read are not affected.

If this spell is scribed on a scroll, it automatically becomes a cursed item of some sort: treat this as a written form of the spell, but it is permanent until the spell is cast. A creature that succeeds on their will save and is able to use the scroll is no longer affected by that scroll and can proceed to cast the spell.

[Caleniel]

I'm not in the least disappointed by the censors, because for some odd reason I'm not under the impression that vulgarity inexplicably makes any piece of writing better. Maybe I'm crazy.

What I was annoyed with is how the physical limitations of being pregnant were basically ignored. I've seen how awkward and difficult the most basic of motions are for a woman in the late stages of pregnancy. She'd probably have decent control of her arms, but everything else would be incredibly impaired. Admittedly, she doesn't move a whole lot in the strip, but she'd still get flanked twenty times in a few seconds if those ninja's knew half the rules for combat.

Hmm. I know I'm Danish, so maybe being able to bike isn't considered a valid counter argument to being "incredibly impaired"... But honestly, I have had two children this decade, and neither of them left me all THAT impaired! My first was one week overdue, and the day before he was born (six days overdue) I still rode my bicycle four kilometers to my office because I got too bored staying home.

I don't think pregnancy should be considered such a severe handicap. The more society expects you to only be able to sit and eat, the more you tend to just sit and eat. And THEN you will be impaired. I know I was lucky to steer clear of actual complications both times, but pregnancy didn't stop me moving around. It's true that you are out of breath a lot more, but then I was never in as good shape as Kazumi. Plus she quaffed a potion of totally.

[Toadie]

*blink* *blink* Wow. That explains your position perfectly.


Good. Though I don't think it's only my position.

[Axl_Rose]

Eh, I wasn't disappointed in it, but I wasn't impressed with it either.

Frankly I was a bit more disappointed in the situation. I'm not much of a fan of the "pregnant woman is untouchable, physically and verbally." motif in comedy situations; it's a bit overplayed and doesn't work for verisimilitude. Pregnant women are, if anything, more vulnerable as they are physically hindered and carrying fragile cargo.


What I was annoyed with is how the physical limitations of being pregnant were basically ignored. I've seen how awkward and difficult the most basic of motions are for a woman in the late stages of pregnancy. She'd probably have decent control of her arms, but everything else would be incredibly impaired. Admittedly, she doesn't move a whole lot in the strip, but she'd still get flanked twenty times in a few seconds if those ninja's knew half the rules for combat.

To close: she disarms her opponent by throwing a pillow at him.

[Pie Guy]

Honestly, I didn't know many swears until I was 11, but really, if you want a comic where people swear, go read 8 bit theater or Bob and George.

Or bear through the slightly silly censorship.

[MyrddinDerwydd]

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, I kept thinking about it and I just had to put the rules for it somewhere...



Power Word @#%@#%
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action, or 1 round
Range: Special, see text
Target: Special, see text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell resistance: Yes

You utter a single word of such profanity that all creatures (except for you) hearing it must succeed on a will save or be severely offended: treat this as being stunned for a number of rounds equal to your caster level. A creature with 5 or more ranks in knowledge (arcana) receives a +2 bonus on this save. If a subject hears the word, but the sound (or what got to them) is distorted so that they cannot understand it, they are unaffected. Any creature with an intelligence score that can hear can be affected by this spell, regardless of what languages they speak. Using the spell in this way is a standard action.

[I]Power Word @#%@#% can also be cast in written form. If this is done, the casting time is increased to a full-round action, and the spell has a duration of one day, after which the word fades and is unreadable. Any creature reading the word if affected as if they had heard the spell in verbal form. This form of the spell can affect any sighted creature with an intelligence score, however, the word must be read, simply seeing it is not enough, so creatures that cannot read are not affected.

If this spell is scribed on a scroll, it automatically becomes a cursed item of some sort: treat this as a written form of the spell, but it is permanent until the spell is cast. A creature that succeeds on their will save and is able to use the scroll is no longer affected by that scroll and can proceed to cast the spell.

Ok now this seriously rocks. hands down.

[chibibar]

Also consider the international read of this comic, you can insert your own swear words that you think is "pretty powerful" and thus the symbols can replace that.

If you put in the actual words, sometimes it doesn't have the same effect in other language.

[Renegade Paladin]

Also, the only people bothered by a lack of swear words are children who think it makes them sound like adults.
Or people who understand that they're a legitimate part of English vocabulary, and that no one ever died of hearing one.

[NerfTW]

Or people who understand that they're a legitimate part of English vocabulary, and that no one ever died of hearing one.

And yet, you don't understand that the symbols are a legitimate part of English humor, and that no one ever died of seeing them in place of a swear word for comedic affect.

[AlexanderRM]

And yet, you don't understand that the symbols are a legitimate part of English humor, and that no one ever died of seeing them in place of a swear word for comedic affect.
:smallbiggrin:

Also- if Rich had actually shown the words, we would have called him hypocrites for using words we can't use on the forums. Sorry that that's been said before, but, well, some people haven't caught on.

[Toadie]

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, I kept thinking about it and I just had to put the rules for it somewhere...



Power Word @#%@#%
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action, or 1 round
Range: Special, see text
Target: Special, see text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell resistance: Yes

You utter a single word of such profanity that all creatures (except for you) hearing it must succeed on a will save or be severely offended: treat this as being stunned for a number of rounds equal to your caster level. A creature with 5 or more ranks in knowledge (arcana) receives a +2 bonus on this save. If a subject hears the word, but the sound (or what got to them) is distorted so that they cannot understand it, they are unaffected. Any creature with an intelligence score that can hear can be affected by this spell, regardless of what languages they speak. Using the spell in this way is a standard action.

[I]Power Word @#%@#% can also be cast in written form. If this is done, the casting time is increased to a full-round action, and the spell has a duration of one day, after which the word fades and is unreadable. Any creature reading the word if affected as if they had heard the spell in verbal form. This form of the spell can affect any sighted creature with an intelligence score, however, the word must be read, simply seeing it is not enough, so creatures that cannot read are not affected.

If this spell is scribed on a scroll, it automatically becomes a cursed item of some sort: treat this as a written form of the spell, but it is permanent until the spell is cast. A creature that succeeds on their will save and is able to use the scroll is no longer affected by that scroll and can proceed to cast the spell.

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Occasional Sage]

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, I kept thinking about it and I just had to put the rules for it somewhere...



Power Word @#%@#%
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action, or 1 round
Range: Special, see text
Target: Special, see text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell resistance: Yes

You utter a single word of such profanity that all creatures (except for you) hearing it must succeed on a will save or be severely offended: treat this as being stunned for a number of rounds equal to your caster level. A creature with 5 or more ranks in knowledge (arcana) receives a +2 bonus on this save. If a subject hears the word, but the sound (or what got to them) is distorted so that they cannot understand it, they are unaffected. Any creature with an intelligence score that can hear can be affected by this spell, regardless of what languages they speak. Using the spell in this way is a standard action.

[I]Power Word @#%@#% can also be cast in written form. If this is done, the casting time is increased to a full-round action, and the spell has a duration of one day, after which the word fades and is unreadable. Any creature reading the word if affected as if they had heard the spell in verbal form. This form of the spell can affect any sighted creature with an intelligence score, however, the word must be read, simply seeing it is not enough, so creatures that cannot read are not affected.

If this spell is scribed on a scroll, it automatically becomes a cursed item of some sort: treat this as a written form of the spell, but it is permanent until the spell is cast. A creature that succeeds on their will save and is able to use the scroll is no longer affected by that scroll and can proceed to cast the spell.

Nice! Apparently I'm a sorceror, I cast this at high levels ALL THE TIME.

Wait, no. I cast a similar spell, Power Phrase @#%@#%. The substantial difference is that PP's casting time is variable, and the effects increase with the casting time.

[Sequinox]

I find it funnier sometimes when people censor a whole bunch of stuff than if nothing is censored. For example, there's an episode in Yugioh: The abridged series that was awesome because one of the characters started swearing at another nonstop. It was smoething like

What just happened? What the ---- happened? Yugi, I am gonna ---- you up so bad ---- that ----. I mean, ---------------------------------. And if you don't stop it I'll ----------------- so ----------------- and you'll have to -------- sideways. -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.-

[Toadie]

Nice! Apparently I'm a sorceror, I cast this at high levels ALL THE TIME.

Wait, no. I cast a similar spell, Power Phrase @#%@#%. The substantial difference is that PP's casting time is variable, and the effects increase with the casting time.

That's nothing :smallbiggrin: I can cast @#%@#% storm and Mass @#%@#%. :smallbiggrin:

[Occasional Sage]

I find it funnier sometimes when people censor a whole bunch of stuff than if nothing is censored. For example, there's an episode in Yugioh: The abridged series that was awesome because one of the characters started swearing at another nonstop. It was smoething like

What just happened? What the ---- happened? Yugi, I am gonna ---- you up so bad ---- that ----. I mean, ---------------------------------. And if you don't stop it I'll ----------------- so ----------------- and you'll have to -------- sideways. -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.-

Best episode of Cops: two officers stop a regular disturber of the peace. Conversation goes something like this:

Cop One: Evening, Bob. What's the matter tonight?

Bob: *roughly two minutes of censor noises* and your mother!

Cop Two: *stares blankly*
Cop One: Uh huh.

[Renegade Paladin]

And yet, you don't understand that the symbols are a legitimate part of English humor, and that no one ever died of seeing them in place of a swear word for comedic affect.
I understand it very well; I was just pointing out that you couldn't be more wrong. :smalltongue:

[NerfTW]

I understand it very well; I was just pointing out that you couldn't be more wrong. :smalltongue:

Fine, I'll amend it. Kids and pretentious "intellectuals" who refuse to accept that one might censor a work for comedic affect, and moan about it on message boards.

[Equester]

Fine, I'll amend it. Kids and pretentious "intellectuals" who refuse to accept that one might censor a work for comedic affect, and moan about it on message boards.

because calling all who dosn't agree with you children, is so mature:smallwink:

i don't mind the silly american censurship or the jokes about it, but as a Danish person i will always find the whole thing silly.
America with it's freedom of speech and extreme angst about certain words

[Helanna]

Best episode of Cops: two officers stop a regular disturber of the peace. Conversation goes something like this:

Cop One: Evening, Bob. What's the matter tonight?

Bob: *roughly two minutes of censor noises* and your mother!

Cop Two: *stares blankly*
Cop One: Uh huh.

Well we can add Terry Pratchett to the list. Paraphrased:

"A ------- wizard? I ------- hate --------ing wizards."
"Well, don't ------ them, then," he said, effortlessly pronouncing a row of dashes.

Don't remember what book it was from, though.

[ZFR]

Just to be clear. I'm not saying he should've shown the uncensored words. That would've been even worse.

I'm saying (read the first post) that he could've maybe found a better method of "censoring" than *^&$ replacing.

EDIT:
As for example DD's Pratchet reference above. The "effortlessly pronouncing a row of dashes" made it great.


(I actually started this thread in hope of discussing various "censoring" techniques, rather than starting a you're-a-kid-if-you're-offended-by-swearing debate)

[Emanick]

Or people who understand that they're a legitimate part of English vocabulary, and that no one ever died of hearing one.

Yet they can still annoy people like me, and we read the comic to be entertained, not to be put off by reading words we don't enjoy seeing.
Rich is an entertainer, he doesn't put language in the comic he doesn't believe will enhance it enough to offset the inherent unpleasantness. Legitimate, maybe, but you have to remember that just because you and others don't mind seeing them doesn't mean a good minority don't. Be mindful that you're not the only ones who enjoy the comic on a regular basis.

[Renegade Paladin]

Yeah, but that's the thing; there's nothing "inherently unpleasant" about a certain sequence of syllables. What makes it unpleasant is your own trained perception; there's nothing about the sounds or arrangements of letters that makes them unpleasant on their own. If you were to say a modern obscenity to someone who spoke the language as it was a long enough time ago that the word didn't exist (and don't be fooled; you'd have to go back a long time, possibly to Middle English depending on which one you chose) he wouldn't find it "inherently unpleasant" (which he would have to do if the unpleasantness were inherent, since an inherent trait is something that's always had regardless of circumstances); he just wouldn't know what you were talking about.

Furthermore, words that were considered incredibly rude just a century ago are seen as innocuous today; when Charles Dickens was writing A Christmas Carol, he had Ebenezer Scrooge swearing left and right. That's right; "humbug" was a terrible thing to call someone or something. But we think nothing of it now. What does that say about how inherent a given word's unpleasantness is?

I feel I should make clear that I am not disappointed with Mr. Burlew's choice; I simply object to this absurd notion that certain words are by nature harmful.

[busterswd]

Yeah, but that's the thing; there's nothing "inherently unpleasant" about a certain sequence of syllables. What makes it unpleasant is your own trained perception; there's nothing about the sounds or arrangements of letters that makes them unpleasant on their own. If you were to say a modern obscenity to someone who spoke the language as it was a long enough time ago that the word didn't exist (and don't be fooled; you'd have to go back a long time, possibly to Middle English depending on which one you chose) he wouldn't find it "inherently unpleasant" (which he would have to do if the unpleasantness were inherent, since an inherent trait is something that's always had regardless of circumstances); he just wouldn't know what you were talking about.


Linguistics studies pretty much prove you wrong on this though, heh. There's more meaning than you are attributing to the way words sound.

Also why does it matter whether the origin of a reader's distaste is a result of a societally ingrained psychological stigma or simply a word that sounds unpleasant? The vast majority, if not all readers, will understand the intent and unpleasantness behind, say, the f word, and arguing that the f word is meaningless as it'd be an essentially random syllable in another era or language is pointless. It's a modern English comic for modern English readers.

[Kurald Galain]

I don't see why Rich needs to censor his own text balloons. Belkar swears all the time and arguably is a better cusser than Kazumi.

[Renegade Paladin]

Linguistics studies pretty much prove you wrong on this though, heh. There's more meaning than you are attributing to the way words sound.
Humbug.

:smalltongue:

Also why does it matter whether the origin of a reader's distaste is a result of a societally ingrained psychological stigma or simply a word that sounds unpleasant? The vast majority, if not all readers, will understand the intent and unpleasantness behind, say, the f word, and arguing that the f word is meaningless as it'd be an essentially random syllable in another era or language is pointless. It's a modern English comic for modern English readers.
I'm not saying it's meaningless; I'm saying that it isn't inherently bad just for being what it is. Of course words have meaning; I wouldn't be caught dead arguing otherwise. I simply believe that all words in the vocabulary have their purposes, and should be used when warranted to convey the concepts they represent.