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View Full Version : Buying one non-Core book. Need advice.



MCerberus
2008-08-24, 08:28 PM
Mostly I just run some non-serious games for a few of my nerdy friends, and so far things have been working out decently just using the standard PhB, DMG, and MM1. I'd like to add in some new things for the next campaign (if you're wondering how the last one ended, they sacked the gnome capitol because one of them wanted boots with wheels in the heel), but was wondering what book would make the best addition.

I was thinking either Unearthed Arcana, PhB II or one of the completes. My group usually has 5 members. 1 of them is one of those pop-culture victims who, when playing an elf always has a longsword and shield and wants a boomerang etc. Another one is a pyro, and usually comes with the quiet perennial healer. The fourth is mister "creative use of game mechanics" that usually wants crazy gadgets. I'm the DM and 5th and don't usually play without the other 4 except on the forums.

Any input would be good :smallbiggrin:

The Extinguisher
2008-08-24, 08:32 PM
Tome of Magic.
Because it is so much fun.

But I'd suggest talking with your group about the kind of stuff they want in the game.

Inhuman Bot
2008-08-24, 08:33 PM
1) You, the guy posting on a webcomic forum appear to be suggesting that you're not nerdy? Of course, I'am probably wrong, if so, ignore this.
2) I would probably suggest complete adventurer, because it's got some interesting classes, (Like the dread pirate, the Ghost-faced killer and the master of many forms) as well as a decent variety of feats, as well as a few new tools and spells. Really though, any book in the complete series is good.

MCerberus
2008-08-24, 08:38 PM
Oh I'm exceedingly nerdy, they're just in denial of their own nerdness. If I ask them what kind of new stuff they want in a game they usually go with the vague "more stuff" response.

Dr Bwaa
2008-08-24, 08:39 PM
I second the Complete series, and Adventurer specifically. With the addendum that Complete Champion is borked, at least imo.

I might have to suggest staying away from the Tome of Magic unless you're planning a lot of homebrew; despite it being a fun book with a lot of cool ideas, one of the three classes in it is essentially useless (search Truenamer on these forums to find out why). If you're only getting one book, it may be better to get something you'll use all of :)

Chronicled
2008-08-24, 08:46 PM
I was thinking either Unearthed Arcana, PhB II or one of the completes.

Unless you're quite into homebrewing, out of the ones you mentioned I'd suggest the PH2. Good fun classes (although the Beguiler may feel overpowered after Core only games), good fun feats, good fun alternate class features.

Ones you didn't mention that I'd suggest are Expanded Psionics Handbook and Tome of Battle. Once you try either of those, you'll probably never want to go back. :smalltongue: (Out of respect for the OP, can we keep this thread from turning into a ToB/psionics flamewar?)

Emperor Tippy
2008-08-24, 08:46 PM
Tome of Battle.

Tome of Magic is, frankly, unusable without homebrew.

EDIT: I second XPH. In fact it would prolly be better.

fractic
2008-08-24, 08:47 PM
I'd say Tome of Battle. It makes melee fun. But if your players haven't discovered the awesome powers of the full casters yet it might seem overpowered. Second place would be for the PHBII since it has something for everyone to enjoy.

tyckspoon
2008-08-24, 08:49 PM
The Spell Compendium and/or the Magic Item Compendium. Both are literally 'books of more stuff'; that is their reason for being. The MIC is probably more generally applicable, as it doesn't focus on spellcasters the way the Spell Compendium necessarily does.

Emperor Tippy
2008-08-24, 08:50 PM
The Spell Compendium and/or the Magic Item Compendium. Both are literally 'books of more stuff'; that is their reason for being. The MIC is probably more generally applicable, as it doesn't focus on spellcasters the way the Spell Compendium necessarily does.

Be warned that SC significantly bumps the power level of the casters.

Inhuman Bot
2008-08-24, 09:08 PM
Ah, yes EPH is a great book. One thing you have to remember though, is that you can only use a number of PP equal to your level, if you get it. MAny people forget that, which causes problems in balance.

Thurbane
2008-08-24, 09:48 PM
I've gotten more use from PHBII than any other non-core book I own.

Chronicled
2008-08-24, 09:53 PM
the Magic Item Compendium. Both are literally 'books of more stuff'; that is their reason for being. The MIC is probably more generally applicable, as it doesn't focus on spellcasters the way the Spell Compendium necessarily does.

This is also a good idea.

Btw, unless your group has a special fondness for a certain type of character, most of the Completes are too narrowly focused, and/or have less than stellar stuff inside. Complete Scoundrel is about the only one of them that I found any good (and well, Complete Arcane/Mage are great for making casters even more uber, but if you're only getting one book...).

Mr.Bookworm
2008-08-24, 09:57 PM
I second either the Expanded Psionics Handbook or the Tomb of Battle.

Both are absolutely awesome.

You might also want to take a look at the two major setting handbooks, Eberron and The Forgotten Realms. Eberron is very magepunk, while the Forgotten Realms is more high-fantasy.

monty
2008-08-24, 10:01 PM
Ones you didn't mention that I'd suggest are Expanded Psionics Handbook and Tome of Battle. Once you try either of those, you'll probably never want to go back. :smalltongue: (Out of respect for the OP, can we keep this thread from turning into a ToB/psionics flamewar?)

+1 this.randomfillertext

Chronos
2008-08-24, 10:21 PM
If you're only getting one book, don't go for any of the Completes. Since each one is focused on a particular type of character, then the player(s) who play that type of character will get a lot of benefit from it, while the other players will get significantly less.

So, out of your characters, you have:
Link
Pyro
Healer
and Creative Improviser.

That means that whatever book you go with should have something elf-y or gish-y, something with fire, something with healing, and new mechanics to play with. The first, you could get from Tome of Battle (the Eternal Blade PrC), PHB II (Duskblade), Races of the Wild (don't know specifically, but there's got to be something Link-y in there), or (I think) Complete Mage (Abjurant Champion).

The second, you could go for Sandstorm (a whole book about heat), Dragon Magic (Dragonfire Adept), Tome of Battle (the whole Desert Wind discipline), Complete Mage (reserve feats), or Miniatures Handbook (Warmage).

For the third, there's Complete Divine (many options), Miniatures Handbook (the Healer class), Tome of Magic (Binder with Buer), or Tome of Battle (Crusader).

For the fourth, for introducing new mechanics, it's Expanded Psionic Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Magic, or Tome of Battle.

Looking over those four, Tome of Battle is the only one which actually applies to all four of them. So if you're only going to get one book, that might be the one to go with.

Knaight
2008-08-24, 10:26 PM
Psionics are also part of the SRD, so go with tome of battle.

Chronicled
2008-08-24, 10:33 PM
Psionics are also part of the SRD, so go with tome of battle.

This is very good thinking, if MCerberus's group doesn't mind the slightly disconnected nature of the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org).

The XPH does have better pictures than ToB... oh wait (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/ag)!

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-24, 10:35 PM
I was thinking either Unearthed Arcana, PhB II or one of the completes. My group usually has 5 members. 1 of them is one of those pop-culture victims who, when playing an elf always has a longsword and shield and wants a boomerang etc. Another one is a pyro, and usually comes with the quiet perennial healer. The fourth is mister "creative use of game mechanics" that usually wants crazy gadgets. I'm the DM and 5th and don't usually play without the other 4 except on the forums.

Any input would be good :smallbiggrin:

Instead of buying them New consider buying several of them at Amazon New with Remainder marks or Used Very Good for $3.99 shippping plus book cost.

I like EPH, UA for hard copies despite a majority of the material being in the SRD.

Tome of Magic for Binders and Anima Mages. (Cheap on Amazon)

Tome of Battle for ramping up martial adepts even with a dip level into Warblade or Swordsage or a PRC (Personally I do not care for the randomness of the Crusader recovery)

DMG seemed like a waste of money.

mabriss lethe
2008-08-24, 10:38 PM
If you go with Tome of Magic order it used on amazon...like immediately. It's still pretty inexpensive, but has jumped in price rather dramatically in the past few weeks. (from the same used book dealers I might add.)

Two weeks ago the lowest price was around 5.50. It jumped last week to 6.50 and I just ordered my copy at 7.90.

Ascension
2008-08-24, 10:55 PM
Being as how I don't have the PHBII or any of the psionic stuff, I can't speak to those suggestions, but as soon as I saw the title of the thread two books popped to mind: I was planning to suggest Complete Adventurer if you turned out to be a player (it's easily the most generic of the Complete series, with Warrior being its only possible rival in that aspect, and it's got some nice stuff in it. Am I biased due to my love of skill monkeys? Sure, but I still think it's the best in the Complete series.), or Dungeonscape if you're a DM... and lookie here, you are!

The Tome of Battle is an awesome book, don't get me wrong, but it's mainly awesome if you're a player. If you as the DM only use it for your own NPCs, your players will wonder why every redshirt you throw at them knows awesome fighting moves that they don't have access to, and if you try to share it with all your players, I really don't think it'll work. There's a lot to absorb in the ToB, and you'll probably spend several sessions juggling it around the table looking up things if you try to use a communal book.

The reason I recommend Dungeonscape is because almost every game of Dungeons and Dragons ends up in a Dungeon at one point or another, and it's got a remarkable amount of stuff, both fluff-wise and mechanics-wise, to make said dungeons ancient musty corridors filled with fun instead of just annoying side quests or irritating labyrinths placed unthinkingly between you and the objective-of-the-day. I also recommend it (and this is also one of my favorite parts of Complete Adventurer) for its arsenal of new mundane items. I love to see a party complete an objective by macguyvering together several ordinary objects they just happen to be lugging around rather than using the flashy magical solution every. single. time. and the more mundane items you have to play with, the more fun the results become.

I've suffered through DMs who couldn't put together a creative dungeon to save their lives. I'll do anything I can to help prevent that problem.

monty
2008-08-24, 11:13 PM
almost every game of Dungeons and Dragons ends up in a Dungeon at one point or another

However, many games don't involve dragons. Odd, isn't it?

Rei_Jin
2008-08-24, 11:15 PM
I'd recommend the PHBII, as it gives everyone more options. New classes, new options for old classes, new feats, new spells, and a lot of information to help players build character backgrounds.

One of the few books Wizards released in 3.5 that I was actually impressed with as a book for players, NOT JUST THE DM.

RTGoodman
2008-08-24, 11:20 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and [N]th the suggestion for PHB2. The classes are all pretty fun, and it's got good feats, excellent alternate class features, and even re-training rules and other cool stuff.

I'd also suggest, if you're anywhere near one, checking out your local used books store. I was just in mine today and saw that they now (maybe because of 4E, though I'm not sure) have a bunch of copies of all the Complete books, some of the Races books, and a few other good 3.x things. They very seldom have ToB, ToM, XPH, PHB2, and other really popular stuff, but the Completes (except Champion and maybe Mage) are all great and probably pretty cheap.

Ascension
2008-08-24, 11:26 PM
I'd recommend the PHBII, as it gives everyone more options. New classes, new options for old classes, new feats, new spells, and a lot of information to help players build character backgrounds.

One of the few books Wizards released in 3.5 that I was actually impressed with as a book for players, NOT JUST THE DM.

See, that's my problem with recommending books like that in this situation. It really doesn't seem practical to me to have the DM in possession of the party's only copy of a book that would help the players more than it would help him.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-24, 11:54 PM
For some reason I already thought you had PHBII so didn't recommend it earlier.

Magic Item Compendium was nice for some cheaper magic to utility for all classes.

ECS books are cheap on Amazon for the gadgeteer.

Gorbash
2008-08-25, 12:02 AM
I'd suggest Draconomicon, if nothing else because of its amazing artwork and of course, it's incredible resource on dragons, also it's quickly running out on amazon, and if you do want to someday buy it - now is the time.

Eldariel
2008-08-25, 12:06 AM
Draconomicon is a great tool for DMs, but if all the party ever faces is one Dragon, it'll have quite little bang for the buck. And too many dragons is risking making them "mundane encounters" rather than "epic struggles", so it may be quite low payoff release in the end. Actually, I'd probably go with Lords of Madness - there're many Aberrations that are pretty omni-usable and that particular book has some pretty good contents for them.

Xyk
2008-08-25, 12:10 AM
I highly recommend Tome of Battle. If that is overpowered, Complete scoundrel is very fun. My favorite book other than ToB.

MCerberus
2008-08-25, 12:16 AM
Thanks for the input everyone. I'm definitely going with either ToB or PHB II. If I can get them for a non-obscene number maybe I'll get the other soon.

Oh, and Draconomicon may sound fun but it seems whenever we get the scaly things into a game things get surreal. Last time at level 3, they decided to distract their red quest giver (evil party) with a dance party so they can rob the hoard. Results were as expected. I gave them a mulligan and they decided to try and get it drunk the next go around.

Hal
2008-08-25, 06:00 AM
I'm going to be contrary here and mention Complete Warrior. Yes, they're all great choices as listed, but I like CW in that it lists a LOT Of options for your non-magical characters to kick some butt, and they need all the help they can get.

Eldritch_Ent
2008-08-25, 06:33 AM
C-War is meh, especially their Samurai.

My suggestions would be to get a generalized book that doesn't focus on one archetype of character, ro at least introduces varied enough content to be worth it.

Candidates include the ToB, MiC, PHB2, XPH, and Unearthed Arcana.

serow
2008-08-25, 08:53 AM
Player's Handbook II :smallsmile:

black dragoon
2008-08-25, 09:04 AM
I'm Throwing my 2cp her so I'd say either Tome of Magic or Unearthed Arcana. ToM due to it's insane variance between magics. Binders are rather impressive for roleplaying and Shadowmancy is just scary in the right hands. Unearthed Arcana because it provides A metric s**t Ton of options that I still have'nt even tapped into yet.

only1doug
2008-08-25, 09:11 AM
I'd go with PHII or MIC.

MammonAzrael
2008-08-25, 11:19 AM
ok, I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm going to vote for Tome of Battle. it's fantastic and well balanced. The only other I'd suggest would be the PHB II.

I'd suggest the XPH, but you can get most psionic rules at d20srd (http://www.d20srd.org/), so you might as well make the best use of your money. :smallsmile:

BigPapaSmurf
2008-08-25, 01:02 PM
The Official Military Atlas of the Civil War,
published by Barnes ond Noble, 25$

This GIANT book is filled with tons of super detailed maps which can be easily translated into D&D terms*, Most of the cities and towns are very small and work well in a fantasy setting, the forts can be modified to work in D&D with little effort, you could even say the anti-cannonball walls of these forts are anti-fireball type walls. There are multiple views of an area to give wide detail and minutia.

Many of the maps are so detailed that it lists the individual crop types in each field section of the "Miller's farm" for example. The military markings and topography can be used to show defensive locations/structures or just a good place for an ambush.

*The names are all american/english so it's most easily used for your human area. Also the book is cheap enough where you don't feel bad taking pages out of the book for convienience.

Gareshra
2008-08-25, 01:28 PM
No one mentioned the oh so very awesome Complete Scoundrel? For shame! That book has so much in the way of options and ideas that it remains to this day one of my favorite supplemental books. I use it for almost ALL of my characters these days, without fail. I really don't see why you wouldn't pick this up, as skill tricks and some of the prestige classes really help give a character options.

Chronicled
2008-08-25, 03:27 PM
The Official Military Atlas of the Civil War,
published by Barnes ond Noble, 25$

This GIANT book is filled with tons of super detailed maps which can be easily translated into D&D terms*, Most of the cities and towns are very small and work well in a fantasy setting, the forts can be modified to work in D&D with little effort, you could even say the anti-cannonball walls of these forts are anti-fireball type walls. There are multiple views of an area to give wide detail and minutia.

Many of the maps are so detailed that it lists the individual crop types in each field section of the "Miller's farm" for example. The military markings and topography can be used to show defensive locations/structures or just a good place for an ambush.

*The names are all american/english so it's most easily used for your human area. Also the book is cheap enough where you don't feel bad taking pages out of the book for convienience.

This is easily the neatest option offered so far.

Tormsskull
2008-08-25, 03:36 PM
PHB II. Going from Core to PHB II will have a little power creep but not huge. Going from Core to some other supplements (especially supplements released near the end of 3.5) will see a huge power creep.

Ascension
2008-08-25, 04:33 PM
The Official Military Atlas of the Civil War,
published by Barnes ond Noble, 25$

I got this for my father as a Christmas present a year or two ago, but it never even crossed my mind to use the maps for D&D! Great idea!

"So then Pickett leads his single-class fighters in a charge across an open field against a group of entrenched blaster wizards. EPIC FAIL."