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View Full Version : Sorcerer in of Immortality



DareTheRogue
2008-08-24, 09:07 PM
I prefer not to go undead... unfortunately I have built a spy with very few caster levels and even less room to move now... he is going to be hitting the point in life where if he doesn't achieve immortality he will die of old age due to the DM rolling a few dice. and I am the only PC with this problem atm. Currently the character is a Rogue2/Sorcerer4/Cabinet Trickster5/Mindspy5. He can swap out feats if he must so they are not concerning atm

Flickerdart
2008-08-24, 09:10 PM
Get killed in battle and find a druid with Reincarnate. Outside of being Undead, a high-level Druid or, I think, Monk, you're stuck with death from old age.

Rei_Jin
2008-08-24, 09:11 PM
So, you want your sorceror to become immortal so he doesn't die of old age huh?

Well, you do always have the option of being killed deliberately and getting reincarnated, as it creates a young adult body. Whilst it won't make you immortal, it will allow you to reset your body clock by a few decades, and you may get reincarnated as an elf or something else equally long lived.



EDIT: Ninja-ed, of course

Inhuman Bot
2008-08-24, 09:11 PM
Wait, so you want immortality, but not undeadness? Well, you could get (I belive) a wish scroll, then wish for yourself being younger. Or, dependingon you splatbook level, you could look into things like the iron lich.

Vexxation
2008-08-24, 09:13 PM
Get killed in battle and find a druid with Reincarnate. Outside of being Undead, a high-level Druid or, I think, Monk, you're stuck with death from old age.

Monk's still die when their "time is up".
So do Druids.


But there's no rule against Wishing for "more time"...

Edit: Can you Wish to change your race? Say, to Elan?

Inhuman Bot
2008-08-24, 09:16 PM
Probably, you but I think polymorph any object (I'am pretty sure this is the one) permenantly turns you into another, simalir being. If you have no other choice, become an Elan. Effectavly immortal, or possibly actually immortal, I can't remember. The downside? you are now level one.

Stupendous_Man
2008-08-24, 09:16 PM
Become a positive energy powered lich.

chiasaur11
2008-08-24, 09:17 PM
Is there any way to become a warforged or Elan?

DareTheRogue
2008-08-24, 09:17 PM
DM Ninja'd me on the reincarnate part of this... Cabinet Trickster requires me to be a changling... and by reincarnate it is probably not going to happen as I come back as one so I lose the abilities of those levels.

Edea
2008-08-24, 09:18 PM
If there's any psionics in this campaign, get a power stone with True Mind Switch in it, pronto. You're level 16, I don't see this being overly difficult. This solves your problem almost immediately; switch with the body of a young adult creature of your choosing (after dominating him into it, obviously). Kill the old bastard; enjoy your new body (if I remember what True Mind Switch does correctly).

Reincarnate also resets the clock. Getting imprisoned might stop it, as well as residing on another plane with different time traits. Cloud Anchorite would make you immortal; however, I do not believe you have the time to be taking all 10 levels of it :/.

Changing your race to elan or killoren will also end the problem. Apparently a double PAO does the trick?

Siosilvar
2008-08-24, 09:20 PM
Probably, you but I think polymorph any object (I'am pretty sure this is the one) permenantly turns you into another, simalir being. If you have no other choice, become an Elan. Effectavly immortal, or possibly actually immortal, I can't remember. The downside? you are now level one.

Except you aren't level one. The downside is you lose your racial traits (human bonus feat, stat bonuses, skill bonuses, etc.). But you do gain the Elan ones.

Flickerdart
2008-08-24, 09:22 PM
Yes, the rules for switching races are in the Savage Species splatbook. Wish, among other methods, can change race. And just because you need Changeling to qualify doesn't lose you the abilities, you just can't take any more levels in it.

DareTheRogue
2008-08-24, 09:25 PM
Ah but you see the problem is MY DM IS WILL TAKE AWAY THE ABILITIES!!! I have to keep my shapechanger subtype atleast

Inhuman Bot
2008-08-24, 09:27 PM
Why do you need shapechanger?

Rei_Jin
2008-08-24, 09:29 PM
So then, Reincarnate is out huh...

Option 1:You could take levels in Ruathar, a Prestige Class from the Races of the Wild. The third level ability of it increases your age categories by 50%. It doesn't drop you back a category, but it will increase your lifespan. I know it's not immortality, but it's better than nothing, and would give your character longer to work out how to live forever.

Option 2: Pick up two Powerstones of True Mind Switch, a level 9 Psionic Power. Use UMD to activate the Powerstone, and switch bodies twice. The first time, with another Changeling. The second time, with whatever you like. Then, commit suicide. Your consciousness will return to the Changeling that you inhabited previously, whilst his consciousness is stuck in your old body. You then kill him, and your original body is now gone and you cannot be returned to it, and its loss will not affect you. Again, this won't make you immortal, but it will reset your age to whatever the age of the changeling that you took over was.

These two options can be combined, and thereafter whenever you get too old, you pick up another two powerstones of True Mind Switch, and go again. Evil, yes, but you did want to live forever and not be an undead...


Extended Life Span (an epic feat) will also be an option to you later.

Flickerdart
2008-08-24, 09:30 PM
Ah but you see the problem is MY DM IS WILL TAKE AWAY THE ABILITIES!!! I have to keep my shapechanger subtype atleast
I think there are magic items to substitute any race for the purpose of abilities. Or you could always sire a child and then swap minds permanently with him. He'd be at least half-shapechanger, and still count for abilities.

Vexxation
2008-08-24, 09:36 PM
I think there are magic items to substitute any race for the purpose of abilities. Or you could always sire a child and then swap minds permanently with him. He'd be at least half-shapechanger, and still count for abilities.

God that's EVIL!

But FANTASTICALLY AWESOME!!

I can see that being a BBEG's plan for immortality... sire a child every 40 or so years, then when it hits 20-ish, steal its body. Perfect.

Especially if the kid is treated poorly and knows his only reason for existing is to prolong Daddy's life.

Chronicled
2008-08-24, 09:49 PM
Nobody's mentioned a Killoren yet... everyone forgets them when thinking of LA +0 Immortal races.

DareTheRogue
2008-08-24, 09:50 PM
They have mentioned it and as stated I am already a Changling and stuck as one

Inhuman Bot
2008-08-24, 09:52 PM
The only problem would be if his child had scores like:
8
8
8
8
8
8

You could also try to extend your lifespan by hiring a thrallherd to mass mindcontrol people, then get them to worship you as a god.

DareTheRogue
2008-08-24, 09:53 PM
Nevermind that all I got 1 finally, DM will let me go Elemental savant early. just so I do not drop my character because he died of old age.

Inhuman Bot
2008-08-24, 09:54 PM
That works but.... Where's the fun in that?

Emperor Tippy
2008-08-24, 10:12 PM
Step 1: Use a scroll of Moment of Prescience.
Step 2: Use a scroll of Shapechange.
Step 3: Use a scroll of gate to gate in a Solar.
Step 4: Order the Solar to use Wish to transport a 20 year old ECL 1 changeling to you.
Step 5: Knock the kid unconscious.
Step 6: Use a Shard of UPD +10 and MoP to activate a power stone of True Mind Switch (make sure you have at least 6 ranks from other stuff so you can't fail).

There, you are in a new body.

There is also a spell from the Book of Vile Darkness that can take years off your life.

And if you want to be real nasty then find the strongest/fastest/most healthy changeling and switch places with it (so you get its physical scores).

Inhuman Bot
2008-08-24, 10:14 PM
I find it kind of funny you want to use a solar for something that's inderectly evil.

Emperor Tippy
2008-08-24, 10:19 PM
I find it kind of funny you want to use a solar for something that's inderectly evil.

Use a Effertie then. You can even use it to wish up a scroll of gate and (arguably) the power stone.

Vexxation
2008-08-24, 10:22 PM
I find it kind of funny you want to use a solar for something that's inderectly evil.

Meh, the Solar doesn't know what you want the kid for, and he has better things do do.

Besides, it's for the "greater good". The kid wasn't likely to amount to anything, but as a PC, you can be a hero! Stop bad people and stuff!

Edit: Hm.. perhaps one could have a contract with a prison in a Changeling country: At the PC's whim, he can pick a death-row inmate with whom to mindswap.

That way, the guy was already gonna die, and you can keep being awesome!

Inhuman Bot
2008-08-25, 12:08 AM
When you mindswap, you keep class levels and mental scores, right? Because levels are from actuall experiance, and mental scores, are well, the mind.

Emperor Tippy
2008-08-25, 12:10 AM
When you mindswap, you keep class levels and mental scores, right? Because levels are from actuall experiance, and mental scores, are well, the mind.

Yeah, all you loose with True Mind Switch are your physical scores (you get the guy who you switch withs scores instead).

Shazzbaa
2008-08-25, 12:50 AM
Option 2: Pick up two Powerstones of True Mind Switch, a level 9 Psionic Power. Use UMD to activate the Powerstone, and switch bodies twice. The first time, with another Changeling. The second time, with whatever you like. Then, commit suicide. Your consciousness will return to the Changeling that you inhabited previously, whilst his consciousness is stuck in your old body. You then kill him, and your original body is now gone and you cannot be returned to it, and its loss will not affect you. Again, this won't make you immortal, but it will reset your age to whatever the age of the changeling that you took over was.

The problem with this plan is:


If the subject’s body dies while you are in it, you are dead. The subject immediately loses one level, but otherwise survives the experience in your natural body. If your natural body dies while the subject is in it, you immediately lose one level, but you likewise survive the experience in your new body.

If you commit suicide, you'll just be dead, and your victim will lose a level but, otherwise, just be chilling in your old body. Not so useful for immortality purposes. :smalltongue:

Kiren
2008-08-25, 12:55 AM
Start a quest for the fountain of eternal youth

Rei_Jin
2008-08-25, 12:56 AM
Ah, but the EPH advises that when you have taken over a body using True Mind Switch that if you die, you go back to the previous body that you inhabited, and that if you have used it multiple times you only go back to the last body you inhabited, not the original.

Therefore, using it twice to step into a new body permanently without the risk of being removed from it is possible. You step twice, commit suicide, and you are forced back to your last body. You then kill your original body, leaving you in the first body you stepped into, with the only other witnesses to your crime dead and unable to affect you.

It does raise some interesting questions about resurrection and bodies though.



EDIT: Bah, that'll teach me to not check errata. Consider me corrected

Tempest Fennac
2008-08-25, 12:57 AM
Isn't there a level 8 Greater Reincarnate where there's some control over what you come back as? Wish or Miracle could convert you back to a Changling if you were reincarnated as well.

Kiren
2008-08-25, 12:59 AM
Heres a great lupole I found

Become a lich, but enchant the phaclytary with a gentle repose, and replace your chars heart with it, try my Surgery skill.

Fizban
2008-08-25, 01:53 AM
Savage Species could help you, though just about everyone considers the whole book a pile of cheese.

There's a section on becoming a different race, with a bunch of rituals and stuff, and then there's wish, just by itself. If you can pull off some DC 40 spellcraft checks, you can get just about any racial features you want, up to and including the whole race. The cheese part is that if you fail a check, you don't get that ability, so you simply don't try for anything you don't want. So, wish to be an elan/warforged/killoren, make the check for their lifespan, and fail everything else.

Alternatively, there's a template floating around on the boards that changes you into a living construct. Exact wording is "type changes to construct, and gains the living construct subtype." If I'm reading that right, you won't lose your shapechanger subtype. It doesn't mention lifespan, but warforged get to live forever, so I don't see why cyborg morphlings shouldn't. Search "heart of gold" if you're interested.

kamikasei
2008-08-25, 05:59 AM
Monk's still die when their "time is up".
So do Druids.

Eldritch Disciples don't, but the OP can't practically become one.


Except you aren't level one. The downside is you lose your racial traits (human bonus feat, stat bonuses, skill bonuses, etc.). But you do gain the Elan ones.

Fluff-wise, Elans are made out of humans who undergo some transformation. The transformation essentially recreates them as new people, so they can't retain classes, skills, etc. So, if you actually become an Elan by the normal means rather than just polymorphing into one or something similar, you do indeed go back to level one.

Darrin
2008-08-25, 08:24 AM
I prefer not to go undead... unfortunately I have built a spy with very few caster levels and even less room to move now... he is going to be hitting the point in life where if he doesn't achieve immortality he will die of old age due to the DM rolling a few dice. and I am the only PC with this problem atm. Currently the character is a Rogue2/Sorcerer4/Cabinet Trickster5/Mindspy5. He can swap out feats if he must so they are not concerning atm

Pay 100 GP for the Rite of Rebirth and become a Dragonborn of Bahumat (Races of the Dragon, p. 8). This resets your age to "adult". You now have 400+ some odd years before you need to worry about max age.

One of the downsides is you lose most of your original racial abilities. You would lose the +2 bonus to Bluff/Intimidate/Sense Motive (meh) and Minor Shape Change (Su), so no more disguise self at will. However, you would still retain your original type/subtypes, including shapechanger.

On the plus side, you gain either a breath weapon, blindsense 30', or flight 30'. (Worth it probably just for the free flight.)

If your DM continues to harass you with AARP membership, add a half-dragon template or racial template class levels to turn your type to dragon. Once you hit the "ancient" age bracket, you can then take epic feats.

DareTheRogue
2008-08-25, 09:42 AM
I might do dragonborn, if I was good aligned. I can be anything I want because I have the Change Shape ability from the Cabinet Trickster PrC. I am going to gain take 7 levels in Unseen Seer and have 11+CL and become a lich, I'll never look like one cause I can Change Shape into anything.

_Zoot_
2008-08-26, 05:29 AM
Try this :smallcool:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84920

Flickerdart
2008-08-26, 09:28 AM
Well, there you have it. Five casts of Wish and you're good to go.

JoshuaZ
2008-08-26, 10:34 AM
I prefer not to go undead... unfortunately I have built a spy with very few caster levels and even less room to move now... he is going to be hitting the point in life where if he doesn't achieve immortality he will die of old age due to the DM rolling a few dice. and I am the only PC with this problem atm. Currently the character is a Rogue2/Sorcerer4/Cabinet Trickster5/Mindspy5. He can swap out feats if he must so they are not concerning atm

How much time do you have to level up? If you have a fair bit you could take some levels in Green Star Adept which is a 10 level PrC with half-caster progression in Complete Arcane. At the 10th level you become a construct and cease to age. This is a very flavorful, but highly impractical way of getting immortality.

Necropolitan is essentially a LA +0 lich adjustment in Libris Mortis. Unfortunately, that has the whole undead thing.

Also, you could go live on the Astral Plane. IIRC, creatures on the astral plane do not age until they return to a plane with normal time in which case they immediately gain all the age they missed. So you could spend all your time on the astral plane until you got some other form of immortality.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-26, 11:36 AM
The +0 LA Soul Locked template from Herroes of Horror could be interesting depending on PC alignment if the "Death" requirement isn't old age.:smallsmile:

Jack_Simth
2008-08-26, 03:31 PM
The +0 LA Soul Locked template from Herroes of Horror could be interesting depending on PC alignment if the "Death" requirement isn't old age.:smallsmile:
... that's a +0 CR template, not a +0 LA template. It's not designed for PC use.

Vexxation
2008-08-26, 03:58 PM
The +0 LA Soul Locked template from Herroes of Horror could be interesting depending on PC alignment if the "Death" requirement isn't old age.:smallsmile:

Even if the final slaying requirement wasn't death by old age, wouldn't he just die of old age every time he reformed?