Where's the fun of MMORPGs?

[Tom_Violence]

I was at the Leipzig Games Convention over the weekend (not hugely exciting, but kinda interesting nonetheless) and got to have a tinker with some of the games on show there, namely the new Warhammer Online. Now, some that know me here may well know my opinions of contemporary massively multiplayer role playing games, and know that I don't generally look too favourably on them. In fact, the only reason I went near this one was not for my benefit (the line went for miles, perhaps unsurprisingly though I remain baffled, but due to divine intervention we got skipped to the front).

Anyway, after playing the game my group and I were left none the wiser as to what the appeal is. The general consensus was that the combat was unintuitive and dull, and the game lacked any sense of immersion or structure - matching my impression of most other games from this genre. So the questions that I put to you, dear Playground, are these:
What do you enjoy about the combat?
What do you enjoy about the game worlds?
What do you enjoy about character customization?
What social aspects of the games do you enjoy?

In short, why do people like these games? And I especially mean why do people like them from the outset, since I've heard many times that after 9 months when you're level 9 million the game suddenly opens up, but I want to know why someone bothers to try and get that far.

EDIT: A bit of background on why I'm asking - as mentioned I was at this convention, with a group of people who are mostly non or casual gamers. We were conducting press-related research, and one of the principle topics was MMOGs. But I was at a complete loss to explain the lure of these games, especially to people for whom gaming itself is still somewhat unfamiliar territory. Its easy to explain the appeal of something like an FPS, or an RTS, or even an offline RPG, but the same wasn't true for MMOGs. So if you can, try and answer in ways that would make sense to the average guy on the street, if you can. Cheers!

[Setra]

What do you enjoy about the combat?
The combat aspect I don't care too much for, for the most part. Combat in most games is repetitive and boring, MMOs moreso really. As long as the battles are at least active enough it's fine by me.

However high level battles with incredibly powerful bosses are always enjoyable to me.

What do you enjoy about the game worlds?
I love exploring game worlds, just walking around (or flying in some games) is fun in itself to me.

I especially love game worlds with rich background stories that I can indulge in.

What do you enjoy about character customization?
I'm addicted to finding good items and builds and whatnot, that's just me though.

What social aspects of the games do you enjoy?
It's fun to play with other people, what can I say. Take this how you will but I prefer MMOs that are almost impossible (if not impossible) to solo at high levels, because it forces people into parties and I find that enjoyable.

As to why I play them.. hmm... well I dunno. I just do, when I play them I am happy.

[Crow]

What do you enjoy about the combat?
The combat aspect I don't care too much for, for the most part. Combat in most games is repetitive and boring, MMOs moreso really. As long as the battles are at least active enough it's fine by me.

I really wish they would come up with an MMO for the Nintendo Wii. There would be something totally awesome about fighters having to actually swing their "swords" and wizards actually having to perform the proper hand motions (including the nunchuck!).


However high level battles with incredibly powerful bosses are always enjoyable to me.

This is understandable, but the getting to high levels is what I feel is completely dull. Do you feel bored at all working your way to a "certain" level, before the game really takes off for you? Or do you like playing straight from the get-go? Is it fun at low levels, with a dead spot in the mid levels until you get high level?


I love exploring game worlds, just walking around (or flying in some games) is fun in itself to me.

See this I have never been able to understand. For me it is just not the same in a video game. Sometimes it is fun, but I can't see sinking as much time into this as some of my friends do. When i was younger I would get the same sense of exploration and discovery by hiking canyons and exploring sewers and storm drains. I wouldn't trade the time I spent doing those things for exploration of a game world. I can't imagine a large (relative) portion of your play time is dedicated to this though. How much time would you say that you explore? How much do you fight?


I especially love game worlds with rich background stories that I can indulge in.

I too enjoy things like this. There are some games that have such a rich background that it is actually enjoyable to just learn more about it's mythology and stories. I think this is a matter of finding the right MMO for you, and also the developer actually putting the time into this aspect of gameplay.


I'm addicted to finding good items and builds and whatnot, that's just me though.

I am definitly not addicted to grinding and random drops. That stuff makes me want to die. I would rather do pretty much anything else. Trying out builds is always fun, but usually I can find a character planner or something for that. Most MMO's are such a huge investment in time, that experimenting with builds leads to a lot of wasted time. What is your opinion on random drops? Does it add to the game for you, or could you live without them?


It's fun to play with other people, what can I say. Take this how you will but I prefer MMOs that are almost impossible (if not impossible) to solo at high levels, because it forces people into parties and I find that enjoyable.

As to why I play them.. hmm... well I dunno. I just do, when I play them I am happy.

That's good that you enjoy playing them. I don't, but that's why they make so many different types of games. I have found myself frustrated by the "party" requirement at times. Like if I want to get on for just a short while, or am feeling too lazy to put together or find a party. Do you ever have those days?

[Setra]

I really wish they would come up with an MMO for the Nintendo Wii. There would be something totally awesome about fighters having to actually swing their "swords" and wizards actually having to perform the proper hand motions (including the nunchuck!).But could you do that for 40++ levels?


This is understandable, but the getting to high levels is what I feel is completely dull. Do you feel bored at all working your way to a "certain" level, before the game really takes off for you? Or do you like playing straight from the get-go? Is it fun at low levels, with a dead spot in the mid levels until you get high level?The fun is variable, I find, depending on who you are playing with and what you are doing. Just killing random enemies is always boring, but doing so whilst exploring or even just chatting with people is fun, to me. If you're doing "dungeons" or anything similar it tends to up the enjoyment as well.


See this I have never been able to understand. For me it is just not the same in a video game. Sometimes it is fun, but I can't see sinking as much time into this as some of my friends do. When i was younger I would get the same sense of exploration and discovery by hiking canyons and exploring sewers and storm drains. I wouldn't trade the time I spent doing those things for exploration of a game world. I can't imagine a large (relative) portion of your play time is dedicated to this though. How much time would you say that you explore? How much do you fight? Well I tend to fight AS I explore, which is kind of nice. Generally exploring is only so fun, you can only explore an area for the first time once obviously. I'll spend a lot of time exploring the first time I start a game, and much less as time goes on.

However as I play more it also takes less effort to hit a specific level. For instance, in City of Heroes it took me two months to hit 30 for the first time. Then at a later date I hit it in a single day.


I am definitly not addicted to grinding and random drops. That stuff makes me want to die. I would rather do pretty much anything else. Trying out builds is always fun, but usually I can find a character planner or something for that. Most MMO's are such a huge investment in time, that experimenting with builds leads to a lot of wasted time. What is your opinion on random drops? Does it add to the game for you, or could you live without them?How to put this... I both dislike and like Random drops. Sure it would be nice if everyone could get the best items... however it would also ruin the "specialness" of the items.

Ideally you could get good weapons without too much difficulty, but there are better weapons out there which require more difficulty in acquiring... but not ones so overpowered that your "good". Still there's just something about getting a super rare shiny item for the first time.

As for trying out builds well.. trying them out is in itself fun, even if just looking at it theoretically. I can and have spent hours just looking over the skills or whatnot in a build and how they could interact with each other, how best to interact them with eachother. I could copy others, but there's just something pleasing about beating up people with a build of your own making... even if it's already a cookie cutter build (http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Windy_Druid) (I realize that's not an MMO, but it gets the point across)


That's good that you enjoy playing them. I don't, but that's why they make so many different types of games. I have found myself frustrated by the "party" requirement at times. Like if I want to get on for just a short while, or am feeling too lazy to put together or find a party. Do you ever have those days?I honestly always allot at least two hours of play when I get on an MMO to play, otherwise I'll hop on to chat or do business (ie. checking auctions)

If I find myself wanting to play but only for a short while, well.. it depends on the game I'd imagine. In most cases I'd try to play solo, and see if any in game friends want to join me for a bit.

[busterswd]

There's a few phases to MMORPG "enjoyment":

1. Exploration and discovery (the fun part): it's an actual virtual world if it's a well designed MMO, and not just a map with sprites on it. Transit systems, bustling towns filled with other players, wildlife and atmosphere. Levelling also holds quite a few discoveries, like when you learn your first ice spell at level 8 or some such, and it changes the otherwise mundane grind. In the end if you haven't done an MMO before, it's a somewhat new gametype. If it's a new MMO, this phase might last a while as developers keep adding new content or players keep discovering new nuances.

2. Planned goals (the obsession): At this point the interface is old hat and how to get from town a to town b is second nature to you. You've upgraded your ice spell for the 10th time and while it makes killing faster, it's just a new rank. You're also tired of the *******s that kept killing you for fun while levelling. It's time to kick ass, take names, and hit max level. Or become the best pvper on the server. Or become a member of one of the elite clans that pretty much run the economy. Or to take out revenge on the other guys by ganking other newbies. Let the grindfest begin! This is the longest phase usually for most people, as goals may vary and change.

3. The harsh goodbye (addiction): You're tired of the game. You've either been at or seen the top, and it was good for maybe the first hour or so, but now you've realized the game is more work then fun and takes away from stuff you could actually be doing in real life. But something stops you: maybe it was your guildies that you got to actually know surprisingly well by talking with them, maybe it's the prospect of returning home and having no way to kill time for a couple hours, or maybe you just never got down to clicking that cancel button. At any case, you're still logging in hours and wasting time for something you don't like nearly as much anymore. Not everyone gets to this phase, but it still exists.

4. Redux: I wonder if the devs have added any new content? Are some of my old friends playing still? Wow, life is pretty boring lately, wish I had something entertaining to do. Against your better judgement, you start logging in again.

[Setra]

4. Redux: I wonder if the devs have added any new content? Are some of my old friends playing still? Wow, life is pretty boring lately, wish I had something entertaining to do. Against your better judgement, you start logging in again.
Sometimes this can lead to interesting situations...

Like realizing your first girlfriend from 5 years ago still plays the game on the same server and is better at it then you will ever be.

[LordVader]

Hey, speak for yourself, I thought Warhammer Online was pretty immersive, and the huge PvP fights were actually really crazy and fun.

Each to his own, I guess.

[Tom_Violence]

A couple more questions that have arisen in the meantime:

How many hours a day do you think the average MMOG 'requires' to get the best experience from it?
How do the level disparities affect your enjoyment of the game? (by this I mean situations such as you meet someone and play with them for a bit but then when you next see them they're way too high level for you to team up (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/12/31/), or you want to pick a fight with someone else, but they're however many levels above you so you can't, etc.)


Also, I've edited my first post to give a bit more detail on where I'm coming from.

@LordVader - Can you give any info as to why exactly you felt that way?

[Tengu_temp]

There's no fun in MMORPGs. They are just so horribly addictive you cannot stop. They're the drugs of computer games, which are already described as drugs by some people. MMORPGs are bad, mmkay?

Now please forgive me, I have the closed beta of Wrath of the Lich King to enjoy.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Hey, speak for yourself, I thought Warhammer Online was pretty immersive, and the huge PvP fights were actually really crazy and fun.

Indeed. I found myself having some real fun with WAR. Instead of worrying about leveling the whole time, I was actually just having trouble finding the time to do everything I wanted to.

As for describing the "fun" in a game, please tell me why its fun to play any game. I've never found it easy to describe the appeal of games, MMo's included. FPS's, you kill stuff (same as MMO's). RPGs, you level up (same as MMO's). Etc. Fun is hard to describe, but if you wernt having fun with Warhammer Online, maybe MMO's just arn't your thing.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I was at the Leipzig Games Convention over the weekend (not hugely exciting, but kinda interesting nonetheless) and got to have a tinker with some of the games on show there, namely the new Warhammer Online. Now, some that know me here may well know my opinions of contemporary massively multiplayer role playing games, and know that I don't generally look too favourably on them. In fact, the only reason I went near this one was not for my benefit (the line went for miles, perhaps unsurprisingly though I remain baffled, but due to divine intervention we got skipped to the front).

Anyway, after playing the game my group and I were left none the wiser as to what the appeal is. The general consensus was that the combat was unintuitive and dull, and the game lacked any sense of immersion or structure - matching my impression of most other games from this genre. So the questions that I put to you, dear Playground, are these:
What do you enjoy about the combat?
What do you enjoy about the game worlds?
What do you enjoy about character customization?
What social aspects of the games do you enjoy?

In short, why do people like these games? And I especially mean why do people like them from the outset, since I've heard many times that after 9 months when you're level 9 million the game suddenly opens up, but I want to know why someone bothers to try and get that far.

EDIT: A bit of background on why I'm asking - as mentioned I was at this convention, with a group of people who are mostly non or casual gamers. We were conducting press-related research, and one of the principle topics was MMOGs. But I was at a complete loss to explain the lure of these games, especially to people for whom gaming itself is still somewhat unfamiliar territory. Its easy to explain the appeal of something like an FPS, or an RTS, or even an offline RPG, but the same wasn't true for MMOGs. So if you can, try and answer in ways that would make sense to the average guy on the street, if you can. Cheers!

Please don´t compare warhammer (40k) to all MMORPG´s.
Thenk you.

[Tirian]

As for describing the "fun" in a game, please tell me why its fun to play any game. I've never found it easy to describe the appeal of games, MMo's included.

Indeed, this is not limited to computer games. Imagine a guy who is in a bowling league; bowling on the same two lanes for three hours a week for forty years. What could be more boring? Yet, he enjoys it and he isn't the only one, and I think that we would be shortsighted to simply claim that he is irrational. Needlepoint, watching baseball, folk dancing, gardening, playing bridge, reading mysteries -- what in this world isn't a "grind" if you spend more than three months doing it? I suspect that MMORPGs are popular because there actually is some sociological benefit to leisure activities that allow us to interact with our peers inside a highly familiar framework.

That's my own experience, at least. I will drift from not playing online games to MMORPG A to some sort of online competition like the Python Challenge (http://www.pythonchallenge.com/) or the National Cipher Challenge (http://www.cipher.maths.soton.ac.uk/) to MMPRPG B to LiveJournal to turning off the computer for a month primarily because I am attracted to the communities that form around those activities and leaving primarily because I have grown tired of the same communities. I suppose that's putting the cart before the horse, because I can't tell what initially caused a game to attract the sorts of people that I would want to spend time with, but that's how it works on the microsocial level.

[Tom_Violence]

As for describing the "fun" in a game, please tell me why its fun to play any game. I've never found it easy to describe the appeal of games, MMo's included. FPS's, you kill stuff (same as MMO's). RPGs, you level up (same as MMO's). Etc. Fun is hard to describe, but if you wernt having fun with Warhammer Online, maybe MMO's just arn't your thing.

Well, in FPSs there's generally a lot of fast-paced action, so there's the associated adrenaline-based excitement; in an RTS there's the fun of besting what is essentially a series of 'situational puzzles', watching your plans come to fruition, and so forth; in an RPG you get to watch your created character (usually) progress through a story; and in survival horror games you get the fun of crapping your pants when you turn a corner.

I'm not expecting a grand philosophical discussion on The Meaning Of Fun, or anything, but by all means feel free to go into that if you like. Rather, I'm just looking for any introspection at all into why people play these games, beyond "Because they're fun". Also, the point isn't just "I don't like this", but rather "I don't understand why people do". Finally, I'm sorry if I gave off the impression that this discussion was limited only to Warhammer Online - I was hoping instead for these questions to apply to all MMORPGs.

[Setra]

Well, in FPSs there's generally a lot of fast-paced action, so there's the associated adrenaline-based excitementIn PVP, even at lower levels, I will often find more adrenaline than if I were playing a first person shooter.

; in an RTS there's the fun of besting what is essentially a series of 'situational puzzles', watching your plans come to fruition, and so forth;High level bosses in MMOs can somewhat be looked at in a similar way


in an RPG you get to watch your created character (usually) progress through a story;In some MMOs you can progress through stories, others not so much though.

[Holammer]

Well, the game type is a gigantic skinner box affair where you're rewarded a lot in the beginning with faster levelling etc. This phases out over time and becomes less common. It's amazing how a game like World of Warcraft makes you repeat the same content over and over again for some meagre reward.
Currently most games in the genre try to copy the concept. Warhammer looks like a carbon copy with even more PVP focus. Sony even ripped apart a perfectly good game to copy the gameplay mechanics of WoW. In the process ruining Star Wars Galaxies which used to be a very casual and social game.

Whatever Blizzard are doing, they're doing it right. Now it's up to some other developer to reinvent the genre instead of being the disgusting little leech that copies everything and runs with it.

[Setra]

Whatever Blizzard are doing, they're doing it right. Now it's up to some other developer to reinvent the genre instead of being the disgusting little leech that copies everything and runs with it.
Knowing Blizzard, they'll reinvent the genre themselves.

Probably with some sort of Starcraft MMO.

[Cybren]

If you're interested in the reasons people play MMOs the paper by Richard Bartle on MUDs is relevant.
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm

[Holammer]

Knowing Blizzard, they'll reinvent the genre themselves.

Probably with some sort of Starcraft MMO.

I'm almost willing to put my money on Free Realms. If they grab the casual crowd they'll cash in... on micro payments *cough*.

[Seraph]

it's not the combat, quests, or storyline. it's getting together with a bunch of guild buddies, pumping AC/DC over vent and telling lewd jokes as you kill every mob and hapless alliance twit in five zones.

[LordVader]

Whatever Blizzard are doing, they're doing it right. Now it's up to some other developer to reinvent the genre instead of being the disgusting little leech that copies everything and runs with it.

Ironically, Starcraft has done the same thing to RTSs and for many years death-locked the RTS genre into Harvest, Build, Conquer. But we're seeing a lot more deviation from that recently, which I like.

[freerangetroll]

The community more then anything else. I've got a job, kids, wife... you know the whole responsibility thing. So being able to log on and kill some orcs or whatever while talking on vent or in /g with friends is a great way to socialize while still being able to be there for the family. Plus it is cheap, so I can afford to do the Romantic night out or get the kids something they really want instead of say... blowing 1K on a set of golf clubs and spending a hundred or so at the golf course every weekend.

Plus the wife plays, so that is a big plus.

[Arioch]

For the last few weeks I've been playing WoW with a friend from school, using Steam voice chat. It's really fun to play as a team.

With MMOs, I tend to run in cycles. I play them for a while, get bored, stop, and then, a few months later, start again.

[Swordguy]

I can play a game with people who moved away years ago and with whom I've remained friends. The game is almost irrelevant - it's the social aspect that keeps me playing.

[Ethdred]

It's almost impossible to answer your question, because you seem to think all MMORPGs are the same. They're not, and certainly all players are not the same. Different people will get different enjoyment from the same game, while some people will only like particular types of games. It's also a bit tricky to define if a game is actually an MMORPG or not.

For example, I don't like PvP and have ditched some games which I otherwise enjoyed and had put time (and money) into because it was impossible to avoid being smacked down by someone who had been on the game longer or had spent more on micro-payments. But in other games which do the inter-player combat differently I have really enjoyed it, even if I haven't always done well.

Again, some people really like exploring, and if new content is released they will spend lots of time trying to get find it all and get everything they can out of it. Me, I'll wait until the spoilers are up, check if the reward/effort ratio is within my tolerance, and then maybe go get the shiny-shiny. But I am in one game right now where I am really enjoying the exploration element - yeah, I tend to still check the spoilers, but that's more to see if I'm powerful enough to tackle that area.

Community is important to most people I think, but communities vary from game to game. I think it's probably true that people stay in games longer the more they enjoy the community, but I haven't any scientific evidence for that. But I've certainly come across a lot of people who remain active in the community long after they've ditched the game - a variant on busterswd's phase 3.

Judging by your descriptions of why people like other types of games, you seem to be looking for a one-liner description, a sort of elevator pitch for the genre. Unfortunately, any you did receive would be just as wrong and just as limited as those you give for the other genres. Maybe you could explain that to the man in the street instead?

[Jimp]

I can play a game with people who moved away years ago and with whom I've remained friends. The game is almost irrelevant - it's the social aspect that keeps me playing.

That's it for me. If I want to kill thousands of goblins I can play Morrowind or BG2. If I want to do it with a group of friends and in an overall very social environment then I'll play an MMO.

[Erloas]

The biggest part of any MMO is the players. Community makes or breaks most MMOs for most players. There are a few people that can endlessly grind away at a game without doing much with other players but not that many.

If you never play an MMO long enough to get into a guild and make some friends then its going to be very hard to stay with one for very long. That is something that a breif trial is never going to show. But most MMO players already know and accept that so the trial just has to show the game mechancis and players can fill in the blanks themselves.


As for the combat, most MMO combat is based off of reactions. Where an FPS, what you do and how you do it is almost always the same reguardless of what your opponent does, that isn't the case with MMOs. It isn't as much of a case in PvE but it is there as well. Knowing when and how to CC a mob so your group can finish off another, or if you should pull a mob off a friendly squishy is what makes the combat. In PvP there is a lot more, counter enemies abilities at the right time, and knowing what to use depends entirely on what the enemy does, which isn't nearly as predictable as with NPCs. The biggest part of MMO combat isn't really individual abilities, it is about how groups of players work together and knowing your role and what you have to bring to a group and what you have to leave to other players.

[Lord_Butters_I]

MMO players ask us where the fun in shooters/action games are. We don't understand in the slightest, and neither do they when we express our bewilderment.

[Tom_Violence]

It's almost impossible to answer your question, because you seem to think all MMORPGs are the same. They're not, and certainly all players are not the same. Different people will get different enjoyment from the same game, while some people will only like particular types of games. It's also a bit tricky to define if a game is actually an MMORPG or not.

I don't think its impossible, especially since people (including yourself) have given me answers. Be charitable - I don't think all MMORPGs and all players are the same, that would be absurd. Rather, I'm talking in generalities for the sake of brevity and I hope people can understand that. What it means is I'd be looking for answers along the lines of "I like game X for reasons Y and Z", not "MMORPG players like MMORPGs for one grand simple reason."


For example, I don't like PvP and have ditched some games which I otherwise enjoyed and had put time (and money) into because it was impossible to avoid being smacked down by someone who had been on the game longer or had spent more on micro-payments. But in other games which do the inter-player combat differently I have really enjoyed it, even if I haven't always done well.

Again, some people really like exploring, and if new content is released they will spend lots of time trying to get find it all and get everything they can out of it. Me, I'll wait until the spoilers are up, check if the reward/effort ratio is within my tolerance, and then maybe go get the shiny-shiny. But I am in one game right now where I am really enjoying the exploration element - yeah, I tend to still check the spoilers, but that's more to see if I'm powerful enough to tackle that area.

Community is important to most people I think, but communities vary from game to game. I think it's probably true that people stay in games longer the more they enjoy the community, but I haven't any scientific evidence for that. But I've certainly come across a lot of people who remain active in the community long after they've ditched the game - a variant on busterswd's phase 3.

These are all examples of the kinds of answers I was looking for.


Judging by your descriptions of why people like other types of games, you seem to be looking for a one-liner description, a sort of elevator pitch for the genre. Unfortunately, any you did receive would be just as wrong and just as limited as those you give for the other genres. Maybe you could explain that to the man in the street instead?

Again, be charitable. I was giving examples of how someone might explain their enjoyment of a game. I wasn't trying to give a one line all-encompasing summation of an entire genre - that again would be absurd.

Maybe this is the wrong place to be asking these questions. All I was looking for was for people to take a moment and be simply introspective, and give me personal and subjective reasons for liking whatever MMORPGs they play. Just each individual's own ideas was all. I can understand if people want to keep their personal reasons to themselves, but by no means did I intend for people to try and define the entire genre and come up with an exhaustive list of all the reasons anyone would ever play these games. Not all internet discussions have to have such serious implications! :smallbiggrin:

[Ethdred]

In that case, maybe you want to be more specific with your questions than asking 'why do people like these games'. Which really sounds like you are looking for one all-encompassing reason (or set of reasons) why anyone would like the whole genre. If you want an answer in the form 'I like game X for Y and Z reasons' (which it seems you don't, since you quote me as giving examples you want, even though I don't mention any games by name) then you should ask that.

I do try to be charitable, but if you come on apparently slagging off an entire genre on the basis of one game then it's hard to think nice things about you.

[El_Frenchie]

What do you enjoy about the combat?

In MMORPG's? Well, I'd say the social experience in itself is all about the carrot and the stick. Some people like to be beaten into a game, surpass the obstacles, some other people are looking for helpful players, and stay in the game because of the relations they create with those people.

For those who like to beat the game (and the other players), they use the combat system in a way that is nothing short of being a bully. They enjoy combat through bullying or the impression of strength/power you get when you beat someone. Other players generally set the challenges, in MMORPG's, the environment becomes a tool in achieving those challenges set by others.

For those that enjoy helping out, and the more social experience of the MMORPG's, there's Roleplaying. You'll always find people you can roleplay with in MMORPG's. There's also people that become friends, set up guilds. They work cooperatively towards goals. And I find that is the most addicting aspect of the MMORPG: Peer pressure. It may not feel like it, but people will often feel like they have to get online, because they are responsible for the amount of presence they give to their fellow players (ie how dedicated they are). It's a difficult notion to understand, but typically, those types of players enjoy bullying themselves, and yet, still enjoy the game.


What do you enjoy about the game worlds?

Unless you're a new face, the environment of a world is about as expressive as an old wallpaper. The game worlds are merely, as explained, a tool for the player, and because it doesn't matter to the players, it is why even -very- old MMORPG's still have strong player bases. Graphics are enjoyable on the first week or two, but then they become commonplace and you won't notice them anymore, same goes for the worlds. You'll worry about how to get to one place faster, but you won't be watching the world as you do so.


What do you enjoy about character customization?

For some people, they want to recreate themselves in the environment. For other people, they want to have completely different things to other people, as in, they wish to be original. That's what people generally enjoy with character customization. You're either being different, or you're being original.

As long as the game allows those two facets, it will remain an enjoyable part of it. Character customization also comes with character classes and items. Again, templates are used to their full combat potential, in which the more aggressive players find their share, but the items and classes also allow for a customization and new templates are developed through the exploration of the classes. It provides a great deal of diversity and is one of the main reasons a game doesn't grow old. It's all about the player.


What social aspects of the games do you enjoy?

Already explained I guess. It's the carrot or the stick.

[Tom_Violence]

In that case, maybe you want to be more specific with your questions than asking 'why do people like these games'.

I did, but I also wanted to leave things open so people could throw in any other ideas.


Which really sounds like you are looking for one all-encompassing reason (or set of reasons) why anyone would like the whole genre.

I'm not quite that bat **** crazy, no.


If you want an answer in the form 'I like game X for Y and Z reasons' (which it seems you don't, since you quote me as giving examples you want, even though I don't mention any games by name) then you should ask that.

Ah, pedantry. My old friend.


I do try to be charitable, but if you come on apparently slagging off an entire genre on the basis of one game then it's hard to think nice things about you.

Well, I didn't think I was slagging off the entire genre by saying that I personally don't generally find it enjoyable and that I'm curious as to why people do. Also, if I offended any players by saying that then I apologise, but I would also say that they're probably overreacting a bit - someone not liking what you like should be a topic for discussion, and not prompt a knee-jerk defense against being offended. Finally, I'm not basing the entire genre on one game, but the numerous games in it that I've played, which all seem to share some similiar features.

=============

Anyway, looking through the answers here it seems that for most people the social aspects are heavily stressed (not too surprisingly!). The combat is often-times dull, but interesting at higher levels, or in PVP situations. Exploring the worlds can be interesting if they're well put together, but rarely holds a great deal of lasting appeal. And the customization side of things is quite a mixed bag, having some good aspects, and some not so good ones.

Now that we've honed in on a few things, I get start to get a bit more specific in my enquiries.

Socially, what is it about MMORPGs that allows this to such an extent? Is it just the number of players available, or is there something about the mechanics of the game that lends itself to a more social atmosphere? Why do people play MMORPGs rather than the vast number of other multiplayer games out there?

With regards to the combat, most of these games don't seem to allow for one to play in a purely PVP role, since doing this doesn't lead to much character advancement (am I correct here?). And obviously one needs to have been playing the game for a while to get to the higher level places where combat is more fun. So then the question is again, broadly, why play? Do the other aspects of the game outweigh the nuisances of the combat? Is the dull grind largely just accepted as an arguably-necessary evil that has to be lived with in order to get to the good stuff?

In terms of the level structure, what are peoples general opinions on this? I often feel that 60 or so levels is just too much, with the rewards of character advancement too spaced out for my patience, and the differences in power between characters of various levels too vast for my enjoyment. Does anyone share these or similar sentiments, or again is this just accepted as the nature of the beast?

[Myatar_Panwar]

I don't know what these other people are talking about. I find combat in most MMO's enjoyable. Especially my little WAR. <3

But don't ask me why I find it enjoyable, cause I woulden't be able to awnser you. It probally has many factors, such as a higher risk than an FPS might offer (can't just save/ respawn spam depending on single player and multiplayer), and the fact that you might offer something unique to a warband that cant be easily replaced (in an FPS, if you need a sniper, you hit a couple buttons and you are one. In an MMO you pick your role, and you are generally stuck with perfecting that role).

[Shogun]

Personally, I get a kick out of knowing that somewhere on the other end is a person who is reacting to the sniped headshot from out of nowhere (BF2, 2142) or being pwned by my toons (Wow). Also, it's fun to accumulate stats and abilities and items sorta like pen and paper games. Having grown up in an age of predictable AI I have to admit that I enjoy MMOs more than I do single player games.

[Ethdred]

I'm not quite that bat **** crazy, no.

Ah, pedantry. My old friend.


Yes, that's the problem - you seem to think that if you say things that could make you sound 'bat **** crazy' I should assume you're not. To which I can only enquire - have you ever been on the Internet? Most people who post threads with provocative titles like 'where's the fun of XXXX' and then make sweeping generalisations, ill-thought out statements and try to annoy large groups of people usually are either crazy or trolls.

And asking you to be clear and consistent is not pedantry. In fact, if you'd been a bit clearer in the first place you would have come over sounding less crazy. As for people taking offence, I certainly didn't - I saw your comments more as a reflection on you than on anyone else.

[Setra]

Socially, what is it about MMORPGs that allows this to such an extent? Is it just the number of players available, or is there something about the mechanics of the game that lends itself to a more social atmosphere? Why do people play MMORPGs rather than the vast number of other multiplayer games out there?Well the number of plays available is a plus. However there is also other things..

For example, MMO's are usually slower paced than many other online games and allow for more talking. Not to mention if you don't go into PVP much there's little chance of you actually fighting other people, whereas in say a shooter... well you'll be killing people.. it's hard to make friends with people you're killing or being killed by, and as well you're often talking more about how to win than taking the time for small talk.

Not to mention in end-game you'll pretty much be forced to play with other people, and you will have to work together, or you will fail.


With regards to the combat, most of these games don't seem to allow for one to play in a purely PVP role, since doing this doesn't lead to much character advancement (am I correct here?). And obviously one needs to have been playing the game for a while to get to the higher level places where combat is more fun.
I believe WAR will allow you to advance your character in a PVP role, and in Guild Wars you can start a pure PVP character with the best weapons/armor in the game at max level. However for the most part that is correct.

So then the question is again, broadly, why play? Do the other aspects of the game outweigh the nuisances of the combat? Is the dull grind largely just accepted as an arguably-necessary evil that has to be lived with in order to get to the good stuff?
The grind isn't always so bad, and I honestly cannot answer that in such a way that it would really apply to every MMO. Many MMOs handle it differently.


In terms of the level structure, what are peoples general opinions on this? I often feel that 60 or so levels is just too much, with the rewards of character advancement too spaced out for my patience, and the differences in power between characters of various levels too vast for my enjoyment. Does anyone share these or similar sentiments, or again is this just accepted as the nature of the beast?
Personally it depends on the focus of the game. Also remember, City of Heroes has a level cap of 50, but it would be easier to hit 60 in WoW (Though maybe not 70). It's not exactly the level so much as how long it takes to level.

Generally it depends on what you look at as a reward as well. To some it's easier to look at the small things as a reward (like say, a new ability) in which case you will find a 'reward' every two to four levels depending on the game.

Difference in power has little to do with it, if I am level 32 I won't be fighting a level 68, nor would I really play with him... so it doesn't really matter.