Pointless whinging (I'm a pom so sue me)

[Charity]

Firstly I would just like to apologies to poor old Rawbear, for manking up his tidy forum with wampa banter, sorry... I do sort of try to resist... ish...
will power of a cat with a caffine habit.. sorry.


while I'm here can I I'm going to moan about the 'one thread only for banter' thing, it is in theory a good thing but in practice when a conversation is struck up across a thread as it were. The derailers are told to shuffle off to random banter but have you ever seen that occur?

anyone? The random banter thread is a series of-

morning

s'up

ooh I'm tired

s'up

morning

hey it's slow today

s'up


ooh I'm off to bed

Gahhh! Sorry I know there is bugger all not a lot that can be done... it is just really unfulfilling ..

(Oooh hark at him getting all angsty at his ripe old age) ...see I'm forced to heckle myself.

I should do some affirmative action thing I know, but I'm far too lazy so I thought I'd just come here and moan about it.

Could I have a slow - mo brain using banter, that runs concurrently with the drool inducing brain fried banter thread.
Please Mr. Wampa sir

http://usera.imagecave.com/jarrac/bloggen/puss-in-boots.jpg


I am sure I know the answer, but as me old mum might say if you don't ask you don't get.. although she would have used a lot more swear words...

[Bookman]

Well as one of the "Random Banterers" we set forth rules to try and eliminate that........they've mostly been ignored. I dunno how we can fix it......so there has been actions attempted........but they've failed.......so anything that could deduce a way to fix it that'd be good :)

[Ego Slayer]

Well, we do actually talk about things.. all the fluff has to go somewhere, anyway. I don't like it the way it is either.. but whatever.

[RawBearNYC]

I'm not sure that this post is pointless, but I am having trouble descerning the "point" at all. I'm sure it's there, but I'm not sure I understand it.

Are you saying "Friendly Banter"'s banter sucks, so when it occurs somewhere else, can't it be allowed to happen?

[HempRope]

Well, I think that's the ideal situation he's getting at. But perhaps, lacking that, there could be a thread established for what he deems more... sophisticated banter. I think.

Now, I don't atually interact with most of the board members on a personal level any more (I've withdrawn into the PbP forum as things have gotten more compartmentalized), so I don't really miss not being allowed to banter casually. We blather all we want in the OOC threads. However, looking back on when I did hang out in Friendly Banter (before there was a separate SMBG forum) and Gaming (when there was only one), I think if I were still a part of that community, I'd wanna be able to just talk about whatever sometimes, too. So, for what it's worth, this proposal has my support.

Er, for allowing some banter in other threads, not for having a separate thread for sophisticated randomosity. :P

EDIT: For example, in this thread, we could discuss the existence and meaning of the word 'whinging,' and conclude that it is slightly different from (and slightly more glorious than) the American 'whining.' Now that's already been done, so maybe it wouldn't be a great subject, but things along those lines. Something with a concrete topic derived from the OP's theme, but not precisely on topic.

[Arian]

A couple of times when a Separate Topic has arisen from a discussion, I've carried it off to Friendly Banter to continue.

Not to the Random Banter thread, to which I've never yet ventured, but to a thread of its own, with its own defining subject line.

If you want to be free to talk about Anything That Happens To Come Up, surely the Random Banter thread is the best place for it, though. If it isn't very content-filled as things stand, maybe its rules need to be better understood and enforced?

[Lilly]

I think I understand what Charity is saying. When a thread in Friendly Banter starts getting off topic it's normally redirected to Random Banter. Such as when the picture topic turns into discussion of things that aren't the pictures or related to the posting of pictures, a mod may post there there is a random banter thread for this sort of discussion. What Charity is suggesting is that these threads don't get redirected into random banter and are allowed to take the natural course of the discussion.

I don't know if we can do this. Since random banter is there, why not use it for the discussion of random bantery things.

[Charity]

Well as one of the "Random Banterers" we set forth rules to try and eliminate that........they've mostly been ignored. I dunno how we can fix it......so there has been actions attempted........but they've failed.......so anything that could deduce a way to fix it that'd be good :)

I know there are rules set up, but as you say.. I don't really know what to do either, so I thought I'd revert to type and moan.


Well, we do actually talk about things.. all the fluff has to go somewhere, anyway. I don't like it the way it is either.. but whatever.

You/we most certainly do, the trouble is any form of conversation is interspersed with two dozen s'up posts. I know you have complained in the past, and I think you were right. One of the main problems is that more people are happy with the s'up's than are not. The spirit of democracy sits on this complaint crushing the life out of it's minority view. (Damn and I was trying to be more understandable)


I'm not sure that this post is pointless, but I am having trouble discerning the "point" at all. I'm sure it's there, but I'm not sure I understand it.

Are you saying "Friendly Banter"'s banter sucks, so when it occurs somewhere else, can't it be allowed to happen?

I am not surprised I have confused you, I have a tendency to wander off the point somewhat and I am trapped in a series of circular thoughts myself over this.
I am fairly sure Wampa doesn't want anymore random banter threads (though one for each forum section might not be asking too much...) so that's out, also no matter how many choices one is given there is nothing to stop all the random banters becoming the same (though different areas on the forum tend to accumulate posts from different posters, I notice most posters stick to one or two areas as it were). Off topic ramblings gets on peoples nerves, especially when it's a thread that has ... a certain air of dignity if you know what I'm getting at... probably not .. sorry. So leaving folk free reign to witter on is out, and so I come round again ... see it is really fairly pointless.. does that mean I have added more clutter, maybe if so sorry ... again.


Well, I think that's the ideal situation he's getting at. But perhaps, lacking that, there could be a thread established for what he deems more... sophisticated banter. I think.

I think if I were still a part of that community, I'd wanna be able to just talk about whatever sometimes, too. So, for what it's worth, this proposal has my support.

Er, for allowing some banter in other threads, not for having a separate thread for sophisticated randomosity. :P

EDIT: For example, in this thread, we could discuss the existence and meaning of the word 'whinging,' and conclude that it is slightly different from (and slightly more glorious than) the American 'whining.' Now that's already been done, so maybe it wouldn't be a great subject, but things along those lines. Something with a concrete topic derived from the OP's theme, but not precisely on topic.

See this is the sort of folk whom should be random bantering sophisticated banter.
In fairness hempy, the mods are pretty good at letting a bit of side tracking go on, just utter derailment is what they frown upon.
I am not helping support my case much here, damn those honesty pills.



A couple of times when a Separate Topic has arisen from a discussion, I've carried it off to Friendly Banter to continue.

Not to the Random Banter thread, to which I've never yet ventured, but to a thread of its own, with its own defining subject line.

If you want to be free to talk about Anything That Happens To Come Up, surely the Random Banter thread is the best place for it, though. If it isn't very content-filled as things stand, maybe its rules need to be better understood and enforced?

Thank you Arian, once again the you're the voice of reason, the problem I can see is that by it's very nature random banter is hard to describe and thus rule understanding/enforcement will be a bit tricksey.



I think I understand what Charity is saying. When a thread in Friendly Banter starts getting off topic it's normally redirected to Random Banter. Such as when the picture topic turns into discussion of things that aren't the pictures or related to the posting of pictures, a mod may post there there is a random banter thread for this sort of discussion. What Charity is suggesting is that these threads don't get redirected into random banter and are allowed to take the natural course of the discussion.

I don't know if we can do this. Since random banter is there, why not use it for the discussion of random bantery things.

See I have cunfuzzled even the mighty Lilly.
I can see that long digressions from the main direction of the thread need to be avoided, though brief ones may not cause too much grief for the other thread users... but you mods tend to let us have a quick wander off topic leaving us to be brought back on topic by our own consciences... you're pretty good at that, the lot of you. I think this may be a Charity issue rather than a board one, left to my own devices I can argue myself to a standstill.

[HempRope]

See this is the sort of folk whom should be random bantering sophisticated banter.
Thanks?


In fairness hempy, the mods are pretty good at letting a bit of side tracking go on, just utter derailment is what they frown upon.
Ah, see, I'm way out of my comfort zone... I'm not really familiar with current modly practices.

[Charity]

Though they have pretty strict rules to implement and all that corrupting moddy power, which they seem able to resist. The mods are pretty good at keeping a decent balance. I think it's just that thread I have a problem with..

oh and of course that evil Rawhide fella ;) just kidding Raw me old mukka

[PhoeKun]

Personally, I think Charity brings up a decent point. While most threads tend to stay on topic, or at least keep off-topic discussions to a minimum, a fair number wind up losing their way and travelling along an entirely tangental road with no end in sight. These are the threads that mods tell to "go to Random Banter". And really, that is the purpose of Random Banter.

Now, the problem is that RB has "evolved" (some would say devolved) into something other than what it was. The conversations that were picked up and tossed into RB are unable to continue amongst the "what's up" and "Yo!" and "...This thread is slow." posts that, if you excuse my use of the term, plague the current incarnations of RB.

So, to put it more plainly, Random Banter is not the haven for off-topic discussions it used to be. The "rules", such as they are in that thread, have been completely ignored, and an AIM session has somehow sprung up in the midst of the giantitp message boards.

The question is: what can be done about it? Do we create a second Random Banter-esque thread to run concurrant to the one already in existence? Do we crack down on the general "spam-i-ness" going on there now? Do we destroy the universe and start over? I don't know...

[WampaX]

So, to put it more plainly, Random Banter is not the haven for off-topic discussions it used to be. The "rules", such as they are in that thread, have been completely ignored, and an AIM session has somehow sprung up in the midst of the giantitp message boards.

The question is: what can be done about it? Do we create a second Random Banter-esque thread to run concurrant to the one already in existence? Do we crack down on the general "spam-i-ness" going on there now? Do we destroy the universe and start over? I don't know...

Welcome to my pain.

The best advice I can give you guys and gals (the core of the old RB guard) is to begin ignoring posts that don't contain decent conversations or information. If people keep responding to the "s'up" posts, you are just encouraging the propogation of similar posts.

Barring that, talk over them. Begin long thought out posts that continue a line of conversation over the din. You should get several others to follow suit and you may even spread it to the rest of the posters in the thread.

I just set in motion the thread to give you guys a place to play with the random thoughts carreening about your skulls. It falls back to you to keep it random banter and not pointless prattle. The problem with the system is that people are using it for something it wasn't designed for (like most users are oft to do).

I've come in and bellowed a few times expressing my consternation about what was going on. I suppose if I don't see a change with the next few iterations, I'll just shut down the system and the Mods can go back to dealing with such things on a case by case basis.

[Azrael]

This is, by no means, aimed at Wampa. Wampa is awesome.

As for the rest of you: Stop complaining and be proactive. The world can't change if you won't help it.

I've added a couple of "Rules" to the latest thread and while I'm paying attention, I've been steering people away from spam. Yeah, it's hard. A couple people seem to think we care that they're back from class, but leaving again for something to eat. *some people really like doing this* But we can return content to the thread. Come on over, join the current Schrodinger's cat discussion (it's like Monkey Grip... it keeps coming back)

[LadyGlutter]

Another thought, as well. If someone wants to take a conversation over to the new thread, a link directly there thusly (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=banter;action=display;num=1159361395 ;start=180) might keep that conversation alive better than just saying, hey, let's go over to Friendly Banter and continue this. Because, to be honest, the 'Random Banter' thread is completely off-putting to me. Even the way they're named comes across as cliquish. And I've followed a conversation before, seen the current incarnation of random banter, thought, "Surely s/he didn't mean to carry on THERE? Those guys are already having their own party..." But that's just a personal oddity maybe, and perception that might have no grounding in reality. My preference in those situations would be to let the banter die than intrude and break the "existing rules" of a long thread of 40 pages where people are yelling at each other to "read the rules in the first page!!!"

Maybe I'm overly optimistic that all that could be overcome partly by the use of the linky. But it couldn't hurt, because people would know they're taking the discussion to the right place.

So someone follow my link and tell me if I'm right, this is where we're supposed to be directing off topic banter? :P

[WampaX]

So someone follow my link and tell me if I'm right, this is where we're supposed to be directing off topic banter? :P

Not really.

If the off-topic banter is of a substantial nature, then it should be given its own thread in which to thrive or die out.

If the off-topic banter is of an insubstantial nature, it should be stamped out as it is most likely akin to "s'up", "s'up." We are a message board, not an IM program.

If the off-topic banter is of a trans-substantial nature, then its posters should be directed to Random Banter. That is to say, that they should find the conversations goin on in there interesting, but they need not carry over their topic (especially if it is substantial).

[Lilly]

Okay it's my forum, so I'll say something.

A mention of "there's already a thread for random banter" is a way of mention that the thread that this message is posted in is drifting very far away from the origional topic, and possibly discussing people's cats. It's saying that once a thread has a topic that it should stay on that topic, and not turn into people discussing completly random things like wether or not we're all going to be taken over by dolphins one day.

Now if the next series of posts in this thread started talking about dolphins, I would direct them over to random banter, since the topic is far too weak to make a thread of it's own. This is an example. That page and the next couple turn into random conversation that relates very little to the topic at hand (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=banter;action=display;num=1159192375 ;start=45). If posters want to have that sort of conversation, then they need somewhere to have it that is not the thread of origin. Random banter is the most obvious place.

[Archonic Energy]

what are the chances of geting a text chat box at the bottom of the page like i've seen in some other forums...

that could solve our problem.

and i bet someone's already thought of it.

[WampaX]

what are the chances of geting a text chat box at the bottom of the page like i've seen in some other forums...

that could solve our problem.

and i bet someone's already thought of it.



Not in this version of YaBB.

If you want chat, go over to the IRC channels, Ithink there was one set up for OOTS . . . don't recall where that was.

[HempRope]

So. I'm going over to the Random Banter thread to go take it back for Charity. Hey, charity for Charity.

Anyway, yella. Let's go.

[Flabbicus]

Not in this version of YaBB.

If you want chat, go over to the IRC channels, Ithink there was one set up for OOTS . . . don't recall where that was.

NeoPhyte set it up somewhere, it's in his sig methinks.

[Archonic Energy]

Not in this version of YaBB.

If you want chat, go over to the IRC channels, Ithink there was one set up for OOTS . . . don't recall where that was.
Shame...

ironically the IRC channel moves at a pace more beffiting a forum thread

and yeah NeoPhyte's Sig.

[HempRope]

Something just occured to me.

While, we've been over 'whinging,' I don't know what a pom is.

Someone care to enlighten me?

[Sneak]

A British person, I do believe.

EDIT: Indeed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_words_for_British#Pommy)

[HempRope]

Yeah, I know that, but -- ooooooh! I was thinking a Pom was a whinger. But I have suddenly seen, as if through divine information-giving, that the paranthetical notation does, in fact, refer to the word 'whinging'!

Whooooaa...

[TinSoldier]

I never really read the Random Banter threads before, but after the board reorginazation I don't really even go into the Friendly Banter forum :-/ .

[NEO|Phyte]

If you want chat, go over to the IRC channels, Ithink there was one set up for OOTS . . . don't recall where that was.
I concur. (as stated, look to my signature for the linkage)

[Charity]

So. I'm going over to the Random Banter thread to go take it back for Charity. Hey, charity for Charity.

Anyway, yella. Let's go.


*wipes a tear from his eye*

Aww

I must say, I believe the lovely ladies Lilly and Alarra have been kicking tush in RB because there is a definate improvement this morning.

*Is all choked up*

I shall optimistically believe this is a sea change and all will go swimmingly.

So thank you Lilly :-* Alarra :-* and anyone else who has contributed and wants1 a kiss from an old git :-*

1. (Not that Alarra or Lilly did, I just didn't give them the option.)

You do realise of course that this success for whinging will encourage others into moanytude.

[Azrael]

Because, to be honest, the 'Random Banter' thread is completely off-putting to me. Even the way they're named comes across as cliquish.
I understand your point entirely, and agree. But then again, I are now assimilated. And it didn't take much. Just pop in, join the current topic, introduce another. Don't worry that the teen-squad is a bit of clique.


And I've followed a conversation before, seen the current incarnation of random banter, thought, "Surely s/he didn't mean to carry on THERE? Those guys are already having their own party..."
This is exactly what we're currently trying to fix ... bringing it back to a catch all rather than a pub-worthy friday night conversation.


My preference in those situations would be to let the banter die than intrude and break the "existing rules" of a long thread of 40 pages where people are yelling at each other to "read the rules in the first page!!!"
Until yesterday, I can 99.9% guarantee that you *haven't* ever seen that happen. If you popped in there yesterday afternoon, you probably saw the begining of the reformation smack down. And I'm sorry you had to see that, but it needed doing.

So anyhow. It really is meant to be a catch all for small discussions -- not prattle. Come on by.

[HempRope]

You know, this may be the first time I have seen real change implemented at a posters' request. Or the request of a small group of posters.

Bravo!

[Azrael]

People have been whining and moaning for quite a while over there, but to no end -- or action.

Charity had the gumption to involve Board Issues, and thus, moderators. Praise be to Lilly and Alarra. Oh... and Wampa's eloquent summary of the prevalent moderator attitude earlier in the thread was a potent wake-up brew as well.

I got the newest RB thread by default (thanks Gez!) and decided that I was sick of the actionless whining. So I added a few suggested rules and made the point in the thread that all was not well.

Nevermind if the world *can* change without the deliberate and determined action of a few. It *won't*.

Now the real question is whether or not it will stick.

[Bookman]

People have been whining and moaning for quite a while over there, but to no end -- or action.

Charity had the gumption to involve Board Issues, and thus, moderators. Praise be to Lilly and Alarra. Oh... and Wampa's eloquent summary of the prevalent moderator attitude earlier in the thread was a potent wake-up brew as well.

I got the newest RB thread by default (thanks Gez!) and decided that I was sick of the actionless whining. So I added a few suggested rules and made the point in the thread that all was not well.

Nevermind if the world *can* change without the deliberate and determined action of a few. It *won't*.

Now the real question is whether or not it will stick.

Seconded cause after the wlaking disaster of Jaque's banter PhoeKun and I intro'd rules which were followed..........for awhile

But hopefully this will be better

*wishes on a shooting star........oh wait it's just Shiny........with a GUN?! AGHhhhhhhhh! *


And there WAS action Azrael.....it worked for awhile......though aparently you're more awesome then me and PhoeKun at keeping rules

[Azrael]

And there WAS action Azrael.....it worked for awhile......though aparently you're more awesome then me and PhoeKun at keeping rules

Hardly. People will have to self-police, no single individuals will ever be able to fully tackle it.








@V: At least you still have your towel. ;)

[HempRope]

Well, perhaps. But your title is still fitting.

Addendum: Okay, well, no, I agree with you. I think especially because outside observers will be likely to let more and more slip as time goes by. But if people watch themselves and just bear in mind that they ought to actually say something, there shouldn't be any need for more whinging.

EDIT 2: Okay, so all I'm saying is that I agree with you, but...

I give up.