Crow
2008-08-26, 08:20 PM
First, the previous threads:
First Session (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83179)
Second Session (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85288)
Third Session (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86718)
This fourth session of 4e we have played, I tried to implement some more skill challenges, with mixed results, and also gave some Dm's Toolbox rules a whirl. Specifically, improving monsters with templates, and the class templates. We also agreed on our first house rule.
The group members were all fourth level, as follows;
Kanan (Human Ranger/Warlord) *DMPC
Val (Eladrin Rogue/Fey Pact Warlock)
Clyde (Halfling Rogue)
Broderick (Human Cleric of Pelor)
This session saw our heroes having crossed the mountains, and strolling into the lands of which one of our players was King in our last campaign. A little nostalgia, to say the least. As they approached the city, they saw that the crops were not looking good, and as they entered, encountered a merchant peddling rainwater collected in barrels. The inner city was locked tight, so the group went to a run-down dump of an inn to find some lodging/food. While doing so, they had some enjoyable conversation with the barkeep, who was something of a storyteller. He offered them some dried bison and related to them the story of the ranch which raised the bison in the nearby countryside. In reality, the bison were the offspring of a buffalo that the players' old characters had caught and brought back to a farm to use as bait for ankhegs. The bison for some reason wasn't needed, so got to live (and presumably breed), so the barkeep got to tell the story of the magnificent god-bison. A half bison-half god, which was the size of ten buffalo, and whose offspring were the most flavorful and juicy to grace the material plane. The ranch that raised them, had since prospered. The barkeep also told the story of one of the players' old characters, the King, whose half-orc offspring (The current lords of the city), were the spawn of the King's escapades with orc maidens of all 9 of the great orc tribes. The players had some good laughs with this. Finally, and most importantly, the barkeep explained that the wells had all started to produce a black "oil", and that the city was going through a water shortage. He said the inner city had been locked up tight and that the lords of the city were doing nothing to help them.
It was kind of nice this session. I didn't need to nudge the players at all to bite on the plot hook. They were determined damnit, and it took me a while to adjust to having a group which was more than eager to jump into the deathtrap I had painstakingly constructed for them.
So our heroes proceed to head to the main gate to the inner city and bribe the guards to let them in. The guards see that the players are rich as hell by their standards, and so set the price high. Val produces a platinum piece, and the guards agree to place the players "under arrest" to get them in to see the lord. Behind the scenes, the guard captain, when told of the visitors manages to convince the lord that these travelers are worth seeing. So they get a meeting wih the lord, and I attempt to implement a skill challenge which fails miserably. you see, my players are the type that will try to convince the npc based upon the merits of their conversational skills. This is a good thing for the most part, especially role-playing wise. Usually, the players won't try to roll diplomacy or anything like that unless I prompt them to, which I had to do countless times to get them to roll some successes. They certainly won't try skills like history or what-have-you unless prompted. FAILURE. Not on the part of the PC's, but on the part of WotC for trying to say that skill challenges are good for social interactions. Just like the other times I have tried to use these in social situations, I ended up scrapping it when it became too difficult to pull more reasons for the NPC to say "no" out of my ass. It really drags on the believability of the game, and the players were on the cusp of becoming frustrated with it. I am officially done trying to use these for social interaction.
So anyhow, the Lord is able to speak with Broderick in private, where he explains that the miners in the local mine had caused some sort of collapse. After that, the water became contaminated with this black oily liquid. Broderick prodded a little and was able to get the lord to admit that there have been kidnappings lately, and miners have disappeared.
The mine was locked up due to the recent problems, so the players were to meet the Lord's men at the mine, where they would be let in and the guards would shut them in. They would open it at dawn in two day's time, and if the PC's weren't there, they would be trapped. So the PC's entered the darkness after picking up some more torches, and we began our next skill challenge, navigating the mine to find the newest shafts, where the collapse had happened. This consisted mostly of dungeoneering checks (took the best roll from each of the three characters who rolled) to find their way through the maze of tunnels, with an athletics check from everyone to get through a partially collapsed tunnel. When Val and Broderick failed their athletics check, I ruled that Val slipped, causing a slide which caught Broderick as well. The slide deposited them into another tunnel, and they had to decide whether to climb back up or explore the new tunnel. The group decided to explore the new tunnel, so Kanan and Clyde went down to join Val and Broderick. The tunnel was fairly even, so it wasn't readily apparent which direction proceeded downwards. Here, Clyde asked if he use his acrobatics to see with his sense of balance if he could determine which way the tunnel sloped. I thought it sounded like an innovative idea, so I ran with it. Clyde successfully determined the right direction, and the group continied.
Finally, everyone arrived at the newest section of the mines. There were a few battles with chokers, who after being slain, appeared to become normal men once again. There were some children, men and goblins (the miners). Little was found except a good amount of iron ore, of which Clyde grabbed 5 lbs. The group also found a storage area full of spare parts and tools. They walked past a section of cavern which had collapsed due to the support beams giving way, so i figured they would be golden for the next encounter, which was overpowering, but featured 3 of the 6 chokers hanging out under an unstable section of cavern, with wooden supports holding it up. Nobody went for the supports. Finally, Clyde shouted something about the supports, and luckily, Val had contained the three chokers that were under the weak ceiling, so they were still there. Kanan, in all his DMPC glory moved to bullrush one of the supports, taking a (missed) attack of opportunity in the process. The support gave way, crushing the 3 chokers. After that, the remaining chokers went down easy. Later in the tunnels, the players encountered a similar situation. This time, they picked up on it immediately, with Val knocking down the supports in the second round. That fight was a cakewalk for everyone but Kanan, who insisted that nobody attack the choker which had him grappled, so he wouldn't be subject to their attacks. I thought Kanan would be able to escape the grab and put some distance between him and the choker, but I was struck with bad roll after bad roll. As my hp dwindled, Kanan finally got loose, allowing Clyde to drop a deadly sneak attack on the choker.
Next, the group comes up to a huge chasm, with what appears to be some sort of pully system that spans the chasm. The other side of the chasm isn't visable. Nearby is a cart basket which appears to have been damaged. Rather than attempt to fix the cart (the tools and parts were found by the players earlier), the players send Broderick across with a makeshift rope harness. I make it a skill challenge on the fly (athletics). He gets to the other side, and uses the pully crank to pull the rest of the party over one-by-one while each wears a similar rope-harness, so they don't have to climb it. No problem, except I had determined beforehand that the old crank system would hold up for 4 trips across, and the group had already used it for three. After getting across, the group continues down the tunnel until they reach a huge verticle shaft with some rigging and piles of rope near the edge. They test it a few times by tossing torches down, and discover that the shaft twists and turns somewhat. Eventually the group goes down the shaft. Many hundreds of feet later, they lower themselves into a worked stone chamber, circular, with a pool of the black "oil" in the center. At the edges of the pool, facing away from it and spaced evenly around it, are kneeling stone statues of men holding out dust-covered orbs as a sacrifice to six giant stone snakes. There is a massive door with a coiled stone snake carved onto it and chains that run from the ceiling beside it. Another passage which appears to be blocked by a huge stone is on the opposite side of the room. Around the outside of the room is a ledge accessable by stairs which has 6 alcoves (one behind each giant snake) blocked shut by a portcullis. Inside each alcove is a chest and a chain which spans from one wall to the other, and appears to run through the walls. Extensive examination followed, and the players managed to figure it out on their own. Removing the orbs from the hands of the statues activated a trigger that caused the snake in front of it to lower as it it was going to strike the statue. Once it was completely lowered, the orb was placed into the mouth of the snake, who's tongue was the tirgger to open the portcullis behind it on the ledge. Entering the alcove behind the snake and pulling on the chain (away from the stone snake door) moved one of the coils of the snake. When all six coils were pulled out of place, the chains that hung at each side of the stone snake door could be used to open the massive door itself. Broderick's player became frustrated in the process of figuring this out, but the rest of the players' reaction ranged from cautious to curious. Still, they ended up figuring it out their own, so that was cool. I think that it was borderline frustrating, but after the players solved it, it seemed extremely simple.
Proceeding through the huge stone snake door, the players came to an octagon-shaped room with a large statue of a robed man with outstretched arms in the center. From the opening in the statue's hood, the black "oil" flowed forth into a pool at the statue's feet, which ran into four channels that flowed into and under the walls. Above, four huge braziers hung from the ceiling. After examining the statue a bit, Broderick decided to push on one of the arms of the statue. To his surprise, the statue rotated when he pushed. Using the "lefty-loosey, righty-tighty" method, he pushed the statue in a full 360-degree rotation, which finally ended after a complete turn. This shut off the "faucet" of black liquid, and each of the braziers that hung from the ceiling lit. In the other room, the group could hear a massive stone moving.
Returning to the room with the snakes, the group was greeted by a central black pool which had drained, revealing stone steps that descended into it, with a burial alter at the bottom. At the top of the steps, a red-robed man dripping in black liquid stretched his arms as if awakening from a long nap. He turned around to face the group, and here entered Siffus, my "solo" choker. He was a regular choker upon which I had slapped the demonic acolyte template, and the wizard class template. Siffus offered to allow the group to live if only they would sacrifice one of them for Siffus to devour. They tried to negotiate with him using some circular logic and Siffus had enough. The combat began with Clyde launching a shuriken at Siffus and hitting, after which Siffus dropped the wizard daily "Sleep". He hit and slowed three of the group, but all three made their saves the very next round. Without some of the group out of the picture, Siffus was doomed. Quickly he was overwhelmed in an anticlimactic battle, which left the players scratching their heads (no doubt expecting something more), and the DM disappointed with the entire concept of solo monsters. Maybe template-created solos aren't on par with standard solos...Whatever the case, Siffus' incompetence led to a disappointing final battle, and made what happened later even more anti-climactic. The players also notice that the passage blocked by the massive stone is no longer blocked.
So the group decides not to risk venturing into the unknown, and instead climbs back the way they came, Broderick using a Tenser's Floating Disc to bring back their loot. Eventually they get back to the huge chasm with the rope-pully. Val gets across, but as Clyde is going across, the crank breaks, and Clyde is forced to climb his way across. I make it a 6/3 skill challenge, with (in hindsight a bad idea that goes directly against what the DMG says) certain death as a penalty for failure! Clyde makes it over easily, as does Kanan. It is Broderick that has difficulty. Floating Disc in tow, Broderick attempts to cross the chasm, and can not roll a success to (quite literally) save his life. After only a two successes, Broderick has racked up three failures. At this point, his constant struggling and exertions have caused his (poorly-made, makeshift) harness to work itself loose. It bought him a second chance though. Metagaming, the other players, including myself, begin to urge him to go back, since it is closer. Broderick heeds the advice, but his athletics roll fails him again. Broderick slips up and plummets into the darkness. The Disc floats in space for a moment before disappearing altogether (Broderick was moving away too fast), and the treasure plummets into the darkness as well. Clyde, ever the rogue, joins in Broderick's panicked screams before a sickening crunch followed by raining coin ends Broderick's life.
So Kanan and Clyde rig some rope to descend into the chasm to recover the treasure- I mean, their friend's body. While Kanan secures a rope so that Val may pull Broderick's body up, Clyde recovers what treasure he can. Much of the coin is lost, and some of the art objects are broken. A short while later, the remaining group continues on their way and leaves the mine when the lord and his men show up to let them out of the mine. The lord presents them with their reward, the equivalent of 110 gold pieces. Broderick had lowered their price to get the lord to allow them into the mine. Luckily, there is just enough treasure for the group to pay a priest to raise Broderick. Luckily, they got some nice items out of the whole ordeal.
So that was it. I have the feeling that my group wants to stay in the city that their characters are in for a little while, but I haven't decided if that will be the case. We did agree to implement the "Magic Threshold" (NPC rule) for the player characters. So when they reach level 6, they will automatically get another +1 to defenses, to-hit, and damage, that doesn't stack with magic item bonuses. It also seems that all of us except for Clyde's player prefer 3.5 over 4e so far. While discussing it, Clyde's player made a point of mentioning that he would like to continue 4e "for a while", before we switch back. We will see how everything goes.
First Session (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83179)
Second Session (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85288)
Third Session (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86718)
This fourth session of 4e we have played, I tried to implement some more skill challenges, with mixed results, and also gave some Dm's Toolbox rules a whirl. Specifically, improving monsters with templates, and the class templates. We also agreed on our first house rule.
The group members were all fourth level, as follows;
Kanan (Human Ranger/Warlord) *DMPC
Val (Eladrin Rogue/Fey Pact Warlock)
Clyde (Halfling Rogue)
Broderick (Human Cleric of Pelor)
This session saw our heroes having crossed the mountains, and strolling into the lands of which one of our players was King in our last campaign. A little nostalgia, to say the least. As they approached the city, they saw that the crops were not looking good, and as they entered, encountered a merchant peddling rainwater collected in barrels. The inner city was locked tight, so the group went to a run-down dump of an inn to find some lodging/food. While doing so, they had some enjoyable conversation with the barkeep, who was something of a storyteller. He offered them some dried bison and related to them the story of the ranch which raised the bison in the nearby countryside. In reality, the bison were the offspring of a buffalo that the players' old characters had caught and brought back to a farm to use as bait for ankhegs. The bison for some reason wasn't needed, so got to live (and presumably breed), so the barkeep got to tell the story of the magnificent god-bison. A half bison-half god, which was the size of ten buffalo, and whose offspring were the most flavorful and juicy to grace the material plane. The ranch that raised them, had since prospered. The barkeep also told the story of one of the players' old characters, the King, whose half-orc offspring (The current lords of the city), were the spawn of the King's escapades with orc maidens of all 9 of the great orc tribes. The players had some good laughs with this. Finally, and most importantly, the barkeep explained that the wells had all started to produce a black "oil", and that the city was going through a water shortage. He said the inner city had been locked up tight and that the lords of the city were doing nothing to help them.
It was kind of nice this session. I didn't need to nudge the players at all to bite on the plot hook. They were determined damnit, and it took me a while to adjust to having a group which was more than eager to jump into the deathtrap I had painstakingly constructed for them.
So our heroes proceed to head to the main gate to the inner city and bribe the guards to let them in. The guards see that the players are rich as hell by their standards, and so set the price high. Val produces a platinum piece, and the guards agree to place the players "under arrest" to get them in to see the lord. Behind the scenes, the guard captain, when told of the visitors manages to convince the lord that these travelers are worth seeing. So they get a meeting wih the lord, and I attempt to implement a skill challenge which fails miserably. you see, my players are the type that will try to convince the npc based upon the merits of their conversational skills. This is a good thing for the most part, especially role-playing wise. Usually, the players won't try to roll diplomacy or anything like that unless I prompt them to, which I had to do countless times to get them to roll some successes. They certainly won't try skills like history or what-have-you unless prompted. FAILURE. Not on the part of the PC's, but on the part of WotC for trying to say that skill challenges are good for social interactions. Just like the other times I have tried to use these in social situations, I ended up scrapping it when it became too difficult to pull more reasons for the NPC to say "no" out of my ass. It really drags on the believability of the game, and the players were on the cusp of becoming frustrated with it. I am officially done trying to use these for social interaction.
So anyhow, the Lord is able to speak with Broderick in private, where he explains that the miners in the local mine had caused some sort of collapse. After that, the water became contaminated with this black oily liquid. Broderick prodded a little and was able to get the lord to admit that there have been kidnappings lately, and miners have disappeared.
The mine was locked up due to the recent problems, so the players were to meet the Lord's men at the mine, where they would be let in and the guards would shut them in. They would open it at dawn in two day's time, and if the PC's weren't there, they would be trapped. So the PC's entered the darkness after picking up some more torches, and we began our next skill challenge, navigating the mine to find the newest shafts, where the collapse had happened. This consisted mostly of dungeoneering checks (took the best roll from each of the three characters who rolled) to find their way through the maze of tunnels, with an athletics check from everyone to get through a partially collapsed tunnel. When Val and Broderick failed their athletics check, I ruled that Val slipped, causing a slide which caught Broderick as well. The slide deposited them into another tunnel, and they had to decide whether to climb back up or explore the new tunnel. The group decided to explore the new tunnel, so Kanan and Clyde went down to join Val and Broderick. The tunnel was fairly even, so it wasn't readily apparent which direction proceeded downwards. Here, Clyde asked if he use his acrobatics to see with his sense of balance if he could determine which way the tunnel sloped. I thought it sounded like an innovative idea, so I ran with it. Clyde successfully determined the right direction, and the group continied.
Finally, everyone arrived at the newest section of the mines. There were a few battles with chokers, who after being slain, appeared to become normal men once again. There were some children, men and goblins (the miners). Little was found except a good amount of iron ore, of which Clyde grabbed 5 lbs. The group also found a storage area full of spare parts and tools. They walked past a section of cavern which had collapsed due to the support beams giving way, so i figured they would be golden for the next encounter, which was overpowering, but featured 3 of the 6 chokers hanging out under an unstable section of cavern, with wooden supports holding it up. Nobody went for the supports. Finally, Clyde shouted something about the supports, and luckily, Val had contained the three chokers that were under the weak ceiling, so they were still there. Kanan, in all his DMPC glory moved to bullrush one of the supports, taking a (missed) attack of opportunity in the process. The support gave way, crushing the 3 chokers. After that, the remaining chokers went down easy. Later in the tunnels, the players encountered a similar situation. This time, they picked up on it immediately, with Val knocking down the supports in the second round. That fight was a cakewalk for everyone but Kanan, who insisted that nobody attack the choker which had him grappled, so he wouldn't be subject to their attacks. I thought Kanan would be able to escape the grab and put some distance between him and the choker, but I was struck with bad roll after bad roll. As my hp dwindled, Kanan finally got loose, allowing Clyde to drop a deadly sneak attack on the choker.
Next, the group comes up to a huge chasm, with what appears to be some sort of pully system that spans the chasm. The other side of the chasm isn't visable. Nearby is a cart basket which appears to have been damaged. Rather than attempt to fix the cart (the tools and parts were found by the players earlier), the players send Broderick across with a makeshift rope harness. I make it a skill challenge on the fly (athletics). He gets to the other side, and uses the pully crank to pull the rest of the party over one-by-one while each wears a similar rope-harness, so they don't have to climb it. No problem, except I had determined beforehand that the old crank system would hold up for 4 trips across, and the group had already used it for three. After getting across, the group continues down the tunnel until they reach a huge verticle shaft with some rigging and piles of rope near the edge. They test it a few times by tossing torches down, and discover that the shaft twists and turns somewhat. Eventually the group goes down the shaft. Many hundreds of feet later, they lower themselves into a worked stone chamber, circular, with a pool of the black "oil" in the center. At the edges of the pool, facing away from it and spaced evenly around it, are kneeling stone statues of men holding out dust-covered orbs as a sacrifice to six giant stone snakes. There is a massive door with a coiled stone snake carved onto it and chains that run from the ceiling beside it. Another passage which appears to be blocked by a huge stone is on the opposite side of the room. Around the outside of the room is a ledge accessable by stairs which has 6 alcoves (one behind each giant snake) blocked shut by a portcullis. Inside each alcove is a chest and a chain which spans from one wall to the other, and appears to run through the walls. Extensive examination followed, and the players managed to figure it out on their own. Removing the orbs from the hands of the statues activated a trigger that caused the snake in front of it to lower as it it was going to strike the statue. Once it was completely lowered, the orb was placed into the mouth of the snake, who's tongue was the tirgger to open the portcullis behind it on the ledge. Entering the alcove behind the snake and pulling on the chain (away from the stone snake door) moved one of the coils of the snake. When all six coils were pulled out of place, the chains that hung at each side of the stone snake door could be used to open the massive door itself. Broderick's player became frustrated in the process of figuring this out, but the rest of the players' reaction ranged from cautious to curious. Still, they ended up figuring it out their own, so that was cool. I think that it was borderline frustrating, but after the players solved it, it seemed extremely simple.
Proceeding through the huge stone snake door, the players came to an octagon-shaped room with a large statue of a robed man with outstretched arms in the center. From the opening in the statue's hood, the black "oil" flowed forth into a pool at the statue's feet, which ran into four channels that flowed into and under the walls. Above, four huge braziers hung from the ceiling. After examining the statue a bit, Broderick decided to push on one of the arms of the statue. To his surprise, the statue rotated when he pushed. Using the "lefty-loosey, righty-tighty" method, he pushed the statue in a full 360-degree rotation, which finally ended after a complete turn. This shut off the "faucet" of black liquid, and each of the braziers that hung from the ceiling lit. In the other room, the group could hear a massive stone moving.
Returning to the room with the snakes, the group was greeted by a central black pool which had drained, revealing stone steps that descended into it, with a burial alter at the bottom. At the top of the steps, a red-robed man dripping in black liquid stretched his arms as if awakening from a long nap. He turned around to face the group, and here entered Siffus, my "solo" choker. He was a regular choker upon which I had slapped the demonic acolyte template, and the wizard class template. Siffus offered to allow the group to live if only they would sacrifice one of them for Siffus to devour. They tried to negotiate with him using some circular logic and Siffus had enough. The combat began with Clyde launching a shuriken at Siffus and hitting, after which Siffus dropped the wizard daily "Sleep". He hit and slowed three of the group, but all three made their saves the very next round. Without some of the group out of the picture, Siffus was doomed. Quickly he was overwhelmed in an anticlimactic battle, which left the players scratching their heads (no doubt expecting something more), and the DM disappointed with the entire concept of solo monsters. Maybe template-created solos aren't on par with standard solos...Whatever the case, Siffus' incompetence led to a disappointing final battle, and made what happened later even more anti-climactic. The players also notice that the passage blocked by the massive stone is no longer blocked.
So the group decides not to risk venturing into the unknown, and instead climbs back the way they came, Broderick using a Tenser's Floating Disc to bring back their loot. Eventually they get back to the huge chasm with the rope-pully. Val gets across, but as Clyde is going across, the crank breaks, and Clyde is forced to climb his way across. I make it a 6/3 skill challenge, with (in hindsight a bad idea that goes directly against what the DMG says) certain death as a penalty for failure! Clyde makes it over easily, as does Kanan. It is Broderick that has difficulty. Floating Disc in tow, Broderick attempts to cross the chasm, and can not roll a success to (quite literally) save his life. After only a two successes, Broderick has racked up three failures. At this point, his constant struggling and exertions have caused his (poorly-made, makeshift) harness to work itself loose. It bought him a second chance though. Metagaming, the other players, including myself, begin to urge him to go back, since it is closer. Broderick heeds the advice, but his athletics roll fails him again. Broderick slips up and plummets into the darkness. The Disc floats in space for a moment before disappearing altogether (Broderick was moving away too fast), and the treasure plummets into the darkness as well. Clyde, ever the rogue, joins in Broderick's panicked screams before a sickening crunch followed by raining coin ends Broderick's life.
So Kanan and Clyde rig some rope to descend into the chasm to recover the treasure- I mean, their friend's body. While Kanan secures a rope so that Val may pull Broderick's body up, Clyde recovers what treasure he can. Much of the coin is lost, and some of the art objects are broken. A short while later, the remaining group continues on their way and leaves the mine when the lord and his men show up to let them out of the mine. The lord presents them with their reward, the equivalent of 110 gold pieces. Broderick had lowered their price to get the lord to allow them into the mine. Luckily, there is just enough treasure for the group to pay a priest to raise Broderick. Luckily, they got some nice items out of the whole ordeal.
So that was it. I have the feeling that my group wants to stay in the city that their characters are in for a little while, but I haven't decided if that will be the case. We did agree to implement the "Magic Threshold" (NPC rule) for the player characters. So when they reach level 6, they will automatically get another +1 to defenses, to-hit, and damage, that doesn't stack with magic item bonuses. It also seems that all of us except for Clyde's player prefer 3.5 over 4e so far. While discussing it, Clyde's player made a point of mentioning that he would like to continue 4e "for a while", before we switch back. We will see how everything goes.