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View Full Version : [4e] Silver Standard to Mountains of Gold -- An Economic Mod



Yakk
2008-08-27, 05:45 PM
The goal of this economy mod is to have the game start out so that a single gold piece is a substantial amount of wealth for PCs, and end in the epic game where a mountain or city of gold is not worth carrying home.

The currency units in this version are as follows:

A Copper Piece is the size of a quarter. 100 weigh 1 lb.
100 Copper Pieces = 1 Silver Piece. A SP is the size of a quarter. 100 weigh 1 lb.
100 Silver Pieces = 1 Gold Piece. A GP is the size of a Penny. 100 weigh 1 lb.
1000 Gold Pieces = 1 Mithril Piece. A MP is the size of a Penny. ~3000 weigh 1 lb. Mithril pieces float in salt water, and sink in fresh water.
1000 Mithril Pieces = 1 Astral Diamond. Astral Diamonds are naturally crystallized residuum. Each is about 2 mm in diameter, or 1/16th of an inch, and have variable weight. (Really. Weigh them twice, and you get different results.)

Rarer currencies:
100 GP =~ 1 Platinum Imperial. A PI is the size of a quarter, but thicker. 100 weigh ~3 lbs.
Gold Imperial = size of a quarter, but thicker =~ 3 GP. 100 weigh ~3 lbs.
Mithril Imperial. Also the size of the quarter, but thicker. 1000 weigh ~1 lbs, each are worth about 3 and 1/3 standard MP each.

Imperials come from the same ancient, continent-spanning empire (maybe the Tiefling one?). Some modern kingdoms have minted "imperials" for the panache, but for the most part this has not caught on.

The Imperials minted by various governments are often a tad smaller than the "real" Imperials, and in rare cases a tad larger. Sometimes they contain debased metals (especially the larger ones). "real" Imperials can sometimes be worth a small premium to collectors if they are in good condition, but most are rather battered and damaged (even to the point where they have lost some mass).

Copper Bit = smaller than a penny. 3 Copper Bits = 1 Copper Piece.

Currency is sometimes debased. There are various methods, from the mystical to the physical, to determine if currency is debased.

A 'coinweight' is a common weight unit. As copper, silver and gold pieces are all supposed to have the same weight, this makes it easy for merchants to determine if someone is cheating.

Mundane Purchases:
Use the following table to convert "standard" prices to "new economy" prices:
X GP -> X/2 SP = 50*X CP
X SP -> 5*X CP.
X CP -> X/2 CP.

Items that now cost fractions of a cp are in a sub-cash position in the economy. In effect, you have to say "keep the change", or barter.

New level 1 characters start with 50 silver pieces, which has exactly the same purchasing power as they did under the standard rules with 100 gp.

Magic item prices:

Level 1: 1 gp
Level 2: 2 gp
Level 3: 4 gp
Level 4: 8 gp
Level 5: 15 gp
Level 6: 30 gp
Level 7: 60 gp
Level 8: 125 gp
Level 9: 250 gp
Level 10: 500 gp

Level 11 to 20 has the same price curve, but in Mithril Pieces.

Level 21 to 30 has the same price curve, but in Astral Diamonds.

Rituals:

Level 1 through 10: Replace GP prices with SP prices on rituals, then scale as follows:
Level 1-2: 1x
Level 3-4: 2x
Level 5-6: 5x
Level 7-8: 10x
Level 9-10: 25x

Level 11 through 25: Start with GP prices, and scale as follows:
Level 11-12: 1/2
Level 13-14: 1x
Level 15-16: 2x
Level 17-18: 5x
Level 19-20: 10x
Level 21-22: 25x
Level 23-24: 50x
Level 25: 100x

Level 26 to 30: Replace GP prices with MP prices
Level 26-27: 1/4
Level 28-29: 1/2
Level 30: 1x

This also applies to the price of Reagents and Alchemy and other level-based item prices.


Magic Economy
The sale price of a magic item is 50% of it's value, barring taking 10+ years to find an ideal buyer. You can also break it down into residuum equal to 1/2 of it's value.

Making a magic item requires at least half of it's value in residuum. The other half is typically in materials to construct the magic item, or reagents to infuse the residuum into the item.

Magic items for sale generally have a 10% to 40% markup over their market value (1d4*10%).

Some creatures and places concentrate Residuum inside parts of themselves. A fail-safe level 1 Ritual, taking a minute with no cost, can detect such raw Residuum and determine which organ it is contained within.

Turning that Residuum into Residuum powder requires the disenchant ritual, but in it's raw form it can be used directly in making appropriate magic items or casting rituals.

Treasure:
Grant the usual "4 magic items, of level X+1, +2, +3 and +4". In addition, grant cash and negotiables equal to twice the value of an even-level magic item from the above table, each level.

Mithril Equipment: (or damn, Mitril costs alot!)
Pure Mithril is extremely strong, and floats in salt water. It can be alloyed into steel, generating the family of metals known as "Mithril Steel". At even rather low amounts, it strengthens steel and allows you to make a much lighter piece of equipment. This is generally far more cost effective than building an actual suit of armor, or a weapon, out of pure Mithril.

If you have an item made out of pure steel and made it out of pure mithril without changing it's dimensions, it would get about 8 times lighter. Each pound of mithril then costs 3000 MP, or 3,000,000 GP. It would also be extremely, extremely strong. Beyond this raw material cost, it requires a seriously good smith and epic-scale forge to create items out of pure mithril.

Effects on the economy:
A single Mithril Piece is worth 10 pounds of gold.
A single Astral Diamond is worth the same as 5 tons (imperial) of Gold.

This permits epic scale dragons to sleep on beds of gold, without breaking the high-end economy. It also allows for cities of gold, mountains of gold, etc.

Copper and Silver become worth something at low levels. A single gold piece can purchase a low-level magical item.

The scale that treasure goes up is more rapid under this system. This allows higher sell-back prices on magical items, without being able to buy "too high power" magic items easily.

Siosilvar
2008-08-27, 05:55 PM
I don't have 4e, so I can't say much about how it affects that economy, but it looks really great and really gives the feel of the power curve of D&D. Any plans for a 3e conversion?

Lappy9000
2008-08-27, 06:36 PM
What's to convert back to 3rd edition? Change mithril piece to platinum piece. Or don't, since mithral actually comes up in fantasy settings, but when was the last time you heard dwarves talk about platinum?

Yakk
2008-08-27, 09:11 PM
Changing 3e's economy in a similar way would be reasonably difficult.

The economy of magic in 3ed is quadratic instead of exponential, and item's don't have a "Level" attribute that their price is keyed on.

You could put magic item costs through some kind of transformation (dealing with consumable magic items differently than non-consumables), and also do the same to expected treasure rewards based on encounter level... you might end up with a very 4e style economy that way.

In 4e by default, what money you had 5 levels ago is relatively unimportant, as your net worth has gone up by a factor of 5 since then. In this 4e economy mod, it is more like ~2 levels ago, as since then your wealth has gone up by a factor of 4.

Larrin
2008-08-28, 04:19 PM
I kind of like the idea of mythril coins floating in sea water....might be a way to find recent shipwrecks or something fun plot wise.

My logical side objects to using mythril as coinage: its a very useful material, too useful to sit in unused piles in a bank vault, they would quickly be taken out of circulation by dwarves making shirts out of them. Gold and silver can make things but they don't make things better, just more decorative. Mythril makes things lighter and stronger and better. Its a waste to use it as coinage, and i think most anyone capable of forging mythril would forge it and then charge more for the end product than the coins were worth. Thats what my logical side says. Ignore him, he's not up for having fun today.

BobVosh
2008-08-28, 04:44 PM
Hmm...2 things
Mithril is worth a lot as a coin. Mithril armor is worth less per pound than the coin. Less than our current standard treasury department for stamps means you won't ever see nonmagic mithril armor for sale. And if the procedure to provide residuum from magic item destroy the base material? If not than more money to melt it down from magic items too.

Can you give the standard deviation on astral diamonds?

I really like the floating on salt water though.

Yakk
2008-08-28, 09:37 PM
Hmm...2 things
Mithril is worth a lot as a coin. Mithril armor is worth less per pound than the coin. Less than our current standard treasury department for stamps means you won't ever see nonmagic mithril armor for sale. And if the procedure to provide residuum from magic item destroy the base material? If not than more money to melt it down from magic items too.


It can be alloyed into steel, generating the family of metals known as "Mithril Steel". At even rather low amounts, it strengthens steel and allows you to make a much lighter piece of equipment. This is generally far more cost effective than building an actual suit of armor, or a weapon, out of pure Mithril.

What is known as "Mithril Armor" is actually an alloy of Steel and Mithril. A very small amount of Mithril (called True Iron by the dwarves) strengthens your Steel alloy significantly, letting you cut down on the thickness of the material significantly and still being stronger than normal Steel. This effect is magnified when enchanted.

A suit of armor made out of pure mithril would be the stuff of epic legends. It would also be extremely vain, as the mithril used to make the suit could have outfitted an army with supernaturally strong and effective weaponry.

Needless to say, some few consider that kind of expense worth it.


Can you give the standard deviation on astral diamonds?

Generally quite light. But no, not really -- astral diamonds seem to be as heavy or as light as they want.

Some scholars claim that the weight of an arbitrary number of astral diamonds tends towards 1/10th of a pound, regardless of how many you have -- this theory is considered garbage by most scholars (well, most of the few who even know of the existence of astral diamonds), as nobody believes that anyone has ever had enough astral diamonds in one spot to test anything near that scale.


I really like the floating on salt water though.

And sinking in fresh. :-) I can just see a high-end merchant pulling out the flask of properly salted water, not believing what he is seeing until it floats.


My logical side objects to using mythril as coinage: its a very useful material, too useful to sit in unused piles in a bank vault, they would quickly be taken out of circulation by dwarves making shirts out of them. Gold and silver can make things but they don't make things better, just more decorative. Mythril makes things lighter and stronger and better. Its a waste to use it as coinage, and i think most anyone capable of forging mythril would forge it and then charge more for the end product than the coins were worth. Thats what my logical side says. Ignore him, he's not up for having fun today.

There is also the problem of the lack of tools that can work mithril, smiths skilled enough, and forges hot enough.

And think about it -- how big is the market for +4 suits of chain mail? It would take a statistician to distinguish it from a +2 suit. Considering you can make 1000 +2 suits of chainmail for the price of a single +4 suit of chainmail, which would you make? Or 30,000 +1 suits?

that's also a lot of residuum you need to enchant that armor.

I mean, if you aren't a hero attempting to take on the gods themselves.

Mithril is very useful, yes -- but it is also very rare, at least in this day and age. Most pieces of Mithril come from empires that the human world has no reliable records of.