PDA

View Full Version : [4e] CRPG/MMO



ghost_warlock
2008-08-28, 11:11 AM
This is based on a thread I came across over at WotC.

This is NOT a thread for discussing the alleged similiarity of 4e to certain MMORPGs or other computer games.

A relevant quote from the WotC discussion: "If the Gold Box games were any hint... D&D has NEVER been hard to code into a game." (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15949895&postcount=4) -Decivre

This IS a thread to discuss the production of a CRPG/MMO based on 4e D&D; when people expect to see such a creature, what companies would make good prospective creators, discussion over turn based vs. "real time," etc.

DDI seems like it would be pretty cool for hosting games, but from what I've seen of the previews, it's pretty much just meant to simulate a D&D game using minis. That's all fine and good, I could see myself using such a tool at some time in the future. But I crave more action, animation, cinema scenes, and everything else that comes with a true CRPG! :smallbiggrin:

Admittedly, I've been out of the computer gaming loop for ages. I've played a lot of WoW in the last couple years, but the most recent games I've purchased/played before were Sims 2 and Fallout 2. :smallredface: What companies out there would be likely to actually work on/produce a playable version of a D&D 4e CRPG?

Personally, I think a Neverwinter Nights-style game would be a lot of fun using a certain half-elven warlock of my creation. :smallbiggrin: I wonder how faithfully the various character options could/would be translated into a CRPG format...

So, what do ya'll think? :smallsmile:

fractic
2008-08-28, 11:15 AM
I think 4E is perfectly suited for CRPGs as long as the combat is turn and grid based (temple of elemental evil like). 4E revolves a lot around positioning and that would be hard to capture well in a real time setting (like NWN).

Edea
2008-08-28, 11:15 AM
One of the main things that would change is the time limit on power usage (though programming can -easily- set an encounter on/off flag for encounter powers, at-will powers will need to have a firing rate put in, and daily powers will need some other time limit, like maybe 1 hour or 2 hours of game time).

Another difficult area might be skill use (probably certain skills will just be auto-attributed to certain classes and treated in a similar way to feats; both skills and feats will probably be able to grow as you gain levels via a tier system).

Tengu_temp
2008-08-28, 11:17 AM
I think 4E is perfectly suited for CRPGs as long as the combat is turn and grid based (temple of elemental evil like). 4E revolves a lot around positioning and that would be hard to capture well in a real time setting (like NWN).

I second this.

Tormsskull
2008-08-28, 11:20 AM
I think 4E is perfectly suited for CRPGs as long as the combat is turn and grid based (temple of elemental evil like). 4E revolves a lot around positioning and that would be hard to capture well in a real time setting (like NWN).

I third this.

obliged_salmon
2008-08-28, 11:27 AM
tough choice, but I would want to see either Bethesda do it, as a kind of 4 person co-op real time game using the oblivion engine, more or less; or else Bioware, using the Kotor/Mass Effect setup for using powers and abilities, in turn based format (this could be single or multiple player).

Yakk
2008-08-28, 12:08 PM
Bah, nevermind a CRPG. A CCRPG (Collectable Card Role Playing Game).

Your character is built based on your class and level, using feat and customization cards. (Ie, your at-will attacks are pre-chosen)

Your deck is a collection of powers, which you draw from randomly during combat.

Your character has Hit Points (Starts out high), Action Points (which are accumulated during combat, and start out at 0 or 1), and typed Power Points (Martial, Divine, Arcane). These are spent to pay for the powers you use.

Monster and Encounter decks that can auto-generate fights! (maps are tricky...)

Mando Knight
2008-08-28, 12:11 PM
NWN 3 seems a likely choice for a 4e game... if Neverwinter is still standing in 4e Forgotten Realms...

I would probably buy it: it all depends on how many other RPG games I'm playing before then...

One thing that irks me about NWN 2 is that the Tiefling that you get at around level 6-ish has a tail... but that option is absent for PCs in un-modded NWN 2.

Tengu_temp
2008-08-28, 12:14 PM
NWN 3 seems a likely choice for a 4e game... if Neverwinter is still standing in 4e Forgotten Realms...


I dunno. NWN always was in real-time (and was suited for multiplayer, where turn combat works really bad). I'm not sure if 4e would work well in real time.

Duke of URL
2008-08-28, 12:15 PM
A 4e-based computer game would have to really focus on "party" mode. Even as a single player, you need to be able to control your party... or have really, really good and customizable AI for non-controlled party members.

Pausable real-time, like BG and NWN, could work for single player, especially if there's a competent AI where you're just issuing orders/priorities rather than manipulating every single detail.

In a multiplayer setting, either real-time or turn-based works where each player controls a single character. This would be far more like WoW where the powers have recharge times, and it shouldn't be hard to enforce "encounter" powers. ("Daily" powers might be harder, unless you work with "no rest" areas.)

Tormsskull
2008-08-28, 12:20 PM
I think it would be cool if it was like you walk around town talking to people, or adventure in the woods and stuff. Then when a monster attacks you or you jump a monster the battle music kick in, and you are taken to a 3D map kinda like Final Fantasy Tactics. Turned based rounds, menu-based attacks.

Tengu_temp
2008-08-28, 12:24 PM
I think it would be cool if it was like you walk around town talking to people, or adventure in the woods and stuff. Then when a monster attacks you or you jump a monster the battle music kick in, and you are taken to a 3D map kinda like Final Fantasy Tactics. Turned based rounds, menu-based attacks.

Let's have visible monsters that you can sneak upon instead of unavoidable random encounters, though.

AslanCross
2008-08-28, 04:38 PM
NWN 3 seems a likely choice for a 4e game... if Neverwinter is still standing in 4e Forgotten Realms...

I would probably buy it: it all depends on how many other RPG games I'm playing before then...

One thing that irks me about NWN 2 is that the Tiefling that you get at around level 6-ish has a tail... but that option is absent for PCs in un-modded NWN 2.

Neeshka's tail is the cutest thing ever. I prefer it so much more to the dinosaur tails the Tieflings get in 4E.

But yeah, I echo the opinions above. Best to be turn-based.

Gralamin
2008-08-28, 04:48 PM
I think 4E is perfectly suited for CRPGs as long as the combat is turn and grid based (temple of elemental evil like). 4E revolves a lot around positioning and that would be hard to capture well in a real time setting (like NWN).

You mean like a good version of temple of elemental evil?
Fourthed?

Mando Knight
2008-08-28, 05:20 PM
Neeshka's tail is the cutest thing ever. I prefer it so much more to the dinosaur tails the Tieflings get in 4E.

My problem isn't that Neeshka has a tail (I also prefer the small cat-like thing that she has over the giant dinosaur tails that 4E Tieflings get), but that PC Tieflings can't have one, too. (unless you're into modding the game...)


But yeah, I echo the opinions above. Best to be turn-based.

I see the point in the turn-based bit... but I still think that if another installment in the NWN series is made, it'll be based on the 4e rules.

Orzel
2008-08-28, 05:26 PM
The second I read how 4e powers worked, I said "4e would work well as a MMO or CRPG". Dailys as once per quest powers makes me laugh though.

HAHAHA.

fractic
2008-08-28, 05:51 PM
You mean like a good version of temple of elemental evil?

Yeah it would be best if it had less bugs. But as a programmer I'd have to say that the unified mechanics of 4e make it a lot easier to program than 3.5.

Starbuck_II
2008-08-28, 06:07 PM
A 4e-based computer game would have to really focus on "party" mode. Even as a single player, you need to be able to control your party... or have really, really good and customizable AI for non-controlled party members.

Pausable real-time, like BG and NWN, could work for single player, especially if there's a competent AI where you're just issuing orders/priorities rather than manipulating every single detail.

In a multiplayer setting, either real-time or turn-based works where each player controls a single character. This would be far more like WoW where the powers have recharge times, and it shouldn't be hard to enforce "encounter" powers. ("Daily" powers might be harder, unless you work with "no rest" areas.)

Um, Buldar's Gate two allows turns in combat. It is one of the options in the options menu. I usually click pause when someone dies, but you could click turns.

Starsinger
2008-08-28, 06:12 PM
I'm picturing something like D&D Heroes of Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, both of which I enjoyed.

Mark Hall
2008-08-28, 06:12 PM
You mean like a good version of temple of elemental evil?
Fourthed?

Download the Circle of Eight patches. They make the game much, much better.

Tengu_temp
2008-08-28, 06:20 PM
Um, Buldar's Gate two allows turns in combat. It is one of the options in the options menu. I usually click pause when someone dies, but you could click turns.

This turn system only means it autopauses every 6 seconds of combat. Not actually the same thing as a real turn-based game. And there are still no squares/hexes.

Knaight
2008-08-28, 06:29 PM
The second I read how 4e powers worked, I said "4e would work well as a MMO or CRPG". Dailys as once per quest powers makes me laugh though.

HAHAHA.

Actually it would be just as hard to code as 3.5. Several companies already have the code for 3.5, and most of the modifications are fairly minor(hit point code, push code, movement code, etc. are the harder parts than just copying a bit of code, changing damage numbers, what its compared to, and movement numbers, then slapping on a new picture on the icon.), so it shouldn't be that hard. As for dailies, if someone can finally make enemies intelligent, so that they can at least open a door and come after you when you sleep, that problem is solved, without making them once per quest powers. 3.5 Spells are dailies after all, so this would also apply to them. That and an oregon trail styled box with "Your throat is cut in the middle of the night" that pops up after hitting the rest button would just be hilarious.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-08-29, 03:37 AM
Crap, I hope they don't try to make it real-time. I'd love me some turn-based 4E CRPG action.

Ashtar
2008-08-29, 04:27 AM
Well, with the D&D 4e rules, it is complicated! You really have to think about it to do it right. With the amount of conditional effects and activations available in 4e powers, you really have to think your structure through.

I've been fooling around with how to code my own 4e "battle engine", with powers written in a small scripting language so that it would be easy to add new ones. And I can tell you it's MUCH harder than 2e.

A long time ago, I built a 2e adventure engine (a la Gold box style) and really, it wasn't that hard. But all these conditional positioning and effects in 4e are still making me think hard and long on how to code it well.

Some examples: "When a creature next to you becomes bloodied", "Has an ally within 2 squares", "Against a slowed or immobilized creature ...". And all this builds up to make the script language more and more complex.

I'd be happy to discuss it more but I guess flowcharts and programmer chatter wouldn't interest everybody.

Gralamin
2008-08-29, 05:06 AM
Yeah it would be best if it had less bugs. But as a programmer I'd have to say that the unified mechanics of 4e make it a lot easier to program than 3.5.

Oh don't get me wrong, I understand how difficult it is to code the monstrosity of 3.5. Its just that despite how close Temple of Elemental Evil came, it just fell flat. It could of at least made the story flow better, since it kinda didn't.


Download the Circle of Eight patches. They make the game much, much better.

Unofficial patches you say? I'll have to look into them.

nagora
2008-08-29, 05:23 AM
Most RPG systems are easy to code. It's the DM that's difficult, and so far no one has made any progress on that one, so for me the term "Computer Roleplaying game" is still an oxymoron.