PDA

View Full Version : Mystic Theurge: Take Two



Jaerc
2008-08-30, 10:36 PM
MYSTIC THEURGE
“I have unlocked secrets hidden in the grimoires of a thousand kingdoms and been a peerless exarch for my god. My mind and soul hold the answers to questions beyond mortal ken, the true essence of magic.”

When a devout wizards finds the path to enlightenment and unifies his traditions he becomes a mystic theurge. When a holy scholar dedicated to his library of arcane tomes discovers the underlying principles of his magic he too walks with path. The mighty sorcerer whose blood is from Heaven and the elven druid who sings lullabies to the forest also become this class. Mystic Theurges gain

Becoming a Mystic Theurge
Most often members of this class were once priests who lacked divine blessings of a cleric and studied the arcane while in the clergy. their arcane might attracted the attention of the gods and they were blessed with true miracles. Boccob and Vecna are most likely to grant this boon but mystic theurges devoted to nearly every god are recorded as well as those who are attuned only to a spiritual path. Much less often a devoted member of the cloth will take up arcane training and eventually meld the disciplines to become a mystic theurge. Most rarely of all other practitioners of the two most imminent forms of magic will unite their paths of study.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become a mystic theurge, a character must fulfill the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 9 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks
Feats: Either Spell Focus or Spell Mastery and either Extra Domain or Weapon Focus
Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells

Class Skills
The mystic theurge’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are... forthcoming but won't suck.
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int
Hit Dice: d6
BAB: Poor
Saves: Fort Poor, Refx Poor, Will Good

1.Spellcasting, Practiced Novitiate
2.Mystic Aegis
3.Arcane Prayer
4.Bonus Feat
5.Dual Actions
6.Weave Essence
7.Sculpt Magic
8.Bonus Feat
9.Occult Defiance
10.Mystic Apotheosis

Spellcasting: When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a mystic theurge, he must decide to which class he adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Bonus Feats: All feats with the Metamagic, Reserve, Divine, or Domain descriptor, as well as anything else that is obvious.

Practiced Novitiate (Ex): At 1st level your caster level for two spellcasting classes you used as prerequisites for this class increases by +2. This can’t increase your caster level beyond your HD. Even if you can’t benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain noncaster-level HD you then apply the rest of the bonus.

Mystic Aegis (Su): At 2nd level you gain two tactical options. The first activates when you cast an arcane spell and then before the end of your next turn cast a divine spell of an equal or higher level. You may then expend a spell slot of a level equal to the lowest of the set-up spells to gain add either your Wis or Int bonus to your AC until the end of your next turn. The second activates when you cast a divine spell and then before the end of your next turn cast an arcane spell of an equal of higher level. You may then expend a spellslot of a level equal to the lowest of the set-up spells to add either your Wis or Int bonus to two of your saves until the end of your next turn.

Dual Actions (Su): Starting at 5th level the mystic theurge can, once per encounter, take two full-rounds' worth of actions in the same round. At 9th level the mystic theurge may additionally do this once per day.

Weave Essence (Su): At 6th level magic becomes easier for your to bend to your exact needs. You may either choose to either gain the ability Mastery of Shaping or reduce the cost of all metamagic by one level. At 10th level you may reduce the cost of all metamagic by one level or you gain the ability to spend a full round action in concentration and gain a number of spell points equal to your Wis+Int bonuses.

Sculpt Magic (Su): At 7th level your mastery of the arcane and divine allows you to fundamentally modify the way you channel magic. You can prepare and cast any spell you know as either an arcane spell or a divine spell. You can apply to take away any descriptor to any spell you cast, and hence change that spell in the way that dictates.

Artisan of Reality (Ex): At 9th level you may once per day when your life is threatened you can ,as an immediate action, spontaneously cast either wish or miracle, regardless of any circumstance that would normally make this impossible. The intent of your spell if followed exactly though you are still limited by what the spell can do. This never costs any experience points.

Mystic Apotheosis (Su): When you reach 10th level you transcend mortal magic. You may choose one of three paths. You can transcend to become similar to either an elemental, aberration , or outsider. Regardless you become ageless. If you elevate your essence to the Realities Beyond you gain DR 10/epic and SR 12+character level. If you unlock the secrets of the Void you are granted immunity to mind-affecting effects and immediately gain 65 hit points. If you infuse yourself with the elements you gain all immunity to flanking, critical hits, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, and you no longer need to sleep, eat or breath.

Innis Cabal
2008-08-30, 11:05 PM
Formatting. Please.

Jack_Simth
2008-08-30, 11:15 PM
MYSTIC THEURGE
“I have unlocked secrets hidden in the grimoires of a thousand kingdoms and been a peerless exarch for my god. My mind and soul hold the answers to questions beyond mortal ken, the true essence of magic.”

When a devout wizards finds the path to enlightenment and unifies his traditions he becomes a mystic theurge. When a holy scholar dedicated to his library of arcane tomes discovers the underlying principles of his magic he too walks with path. The mighty sorcerer whose blood is from Heaven and the elven druid who sings lullabies to the forest also become this class. Mystic Theurges gain

Becoming a Mystic Theurge
Most often members of this class were once priests who lacked divine blessings of a cleric and studied the arcane while in the clergy. their arcane might attracted the attention of the gods and they were blessed with true miracles. Boccob and Vecna are most likely to grant this boon but mystic theurges devoted to nearly every god are recorded as well as those who are attuned only to a spiritual path. Much less often a devoted member of the cloth will take up arcane training and eventually meld the disciplines to become a mystic theurge. Most rarely of all other practitioners of the two most imminent forms of magic will unite their paths of study.

Nice fluff...


ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become a mystic theurge, a character must fulfill the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 9 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks
Feats: Either Spell Focus or Spell Mastery and either Extra Domain or Weapon Focus

?

Isn't Extra Domain an [Epic] feat? Where are you finding that particular feat? Also, I don't get the reasoning behind your choices of feat requirements.


Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells

Class Skills
The mystic theurge’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are... forthcoming but won't suck.
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int

...
The Wizard is 2+Int skill points per level. The Cleric is 2+Int skill points per level. Why would the mix of the two get 4+Int?


Hit Dice: d6
BAB: Poor
Saves: Fort Poor, Refx Poor, Will Good

1.Spellcasting, Practiced Novitiate
2.Mystic Aegis
3.Arcane Prayer
4.Bonus Feat
5.Dual Actions
6.Weave Essence
7.Sculpt Magic
8.Bonus Feat
9.Occult Defiance
10.Mystic Apotheosis

Spellcasting: When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a mystic theurge, he must decide to which class he adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Bonus Feats: All feats with the Metamagic, Reserve, Divine, or Domain descriptor, as well as anything else that is obvious.

Practiced Novitiate (Ex): At 1st level your caster level for two spellcasting classes you used as prerequisites for this class increases by +2. This can’t increase your caster level beyond your HD. Even if you can’t benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain noncaster-level HD you then apply the rest of the bonus.

So... free Practiced Spellcaster split between both sides? Handy, not overly broken.


Mystic Aegis (Su): At 2nd level you gain two tactical options. The first activates when you cast an arcane spell and then before the end of your next turn cast a divine spell of an equal or higher level. You may then expend a spell slot of a level equal to the lowest of the set-up spells to gain add either your Wis or Int bonus to your AC until the end of your next turn. The second activates when you cast a divine spell and then before the end of your next turn cast an arcane spell of an equal of higher level. You may then expend a spellslot of a level equal to the lowest of the set-up spells to add either your Wis or Int bonus to two of your saves until the end of your next turn.

You might want to specify the action type here for sacrificing the spell slot. Also, you probably want to limit the amount of bonus based on the sacrificed spell slot, especially as it could potentially be a cantrip.


Dual Actions (Su): Starting at 5th level the mystic theurge can, once per encounter, take two full-rounds' worth of actions in the same round. At 9th level the mystic theurge may additionally do this once per day.

This is brokenly good. At the beginning of each encounter, I can get two of my highest-level spells off, and two Quickened spells off? So at, say, Wiz-3/Clr-3/MT2-10 (Character level 16), I can spit out two 7th level Save or Lose spells, plus two 3rd level buffs (quickened)? If I pick up a metamagic rod of Quicken Spell, I can spit out two 7th and two 6th level spells on the first round of battle? You don't really want to break the action point cap - it's there for a reason.


Weave Essence (Su): At 6th level magic becomes easier for your to bend to your exact needs. You may either choose to either gain the ability Mastery of Shaping or reduce the cost of all metamagic by one level. At 10th level you may reduce the cost of all metamagic by one level or you gain the ability to spend a full round action in concentration and gain a number of spell points equal to your Wis+Int bonuses.

A few things ....
1) What happens when I take reduced-cost metamagic twice and apply Silent Spell to a spell? Does it bottom out at +1, +0, or does it do a -1 spell level adjustment?
2) While clearly this is intended for use with the spell points variant, think for a minute what you're doing with the recharge - out of battle, this character is literally indefatigable. He can simply stop and recharge fully in a few minutes. That's infinite healing for the entire party (on the Divine side), everyone walks around fully buffed continuously, and so on. This is a nearly full caster with no per-day limit on casting.


Sculpt Magic (Su): At 7th level your mastery of the arcane and divine allows you to fundamentally modify the way you channel magic. You can prepare and cast any spell you know as either an arcane spell or a divine spell. You can apply to take away any descriptor to any spell you cast, and hence change that spell in the way that dictates.

... the first part isn't too bad - other than that all spells will be cast as divine, because that permits the use of heavy armor, plus shields - but the second gets... shall we say "interesting"?

I take the [mind-affecting] descriptor off of Charm Monster. Now anything can be charmed - be it Mind Blanked, immune to mind-affecting effects by way of type (undead, construct), or entirely lacking a mind.

I take the [evil] descriptor off of Animate Dead. A good Cleric can now cast it freely. Wha?


Artisan of Reality (Ex): At 9th level you may once per day when your life is threatened you can ,as an immediate action, spontaneously cast either wish or miracle, regardless of any circumstance that would normally make this impossible. The intent of your spell if followed exactly though you are still limited by what the spell can do. This never costs any experience points.

So I'm a Wiz-3/Clr-3/MT2-9 (15th level). Someone charges me with a greatsword, so I take my immediate action and Wish they were stuck in a gem (Trap the Soul, Sor/Wiz 8). Despite the fact that I can neither cast Wish, nor Trap the Soul (I've only got access to 6th level spells!) my opponent must make a will save vs. a 9th level spell effect or be stuck in a brand-new gem.

This is probably a bad idea.


Mystic Apotheosis (Su): When you reach 10th level you transcend mortal magic. You may choose one of three paths. You can transcend to become similar to either an elemental, aberration , or outsider. Regardless you become ageless. If you elevate your essence to the Realities Beyond you gain DR 10/epic and SR 12+character level. If you unlock the secrets of the Void you are granted immunity to mind-affecting effects and immediately gain 65 hit points. If you infuse yourself with the elements you gain all immunity to flanking, critical hits, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, and you no longer need to sleep, eat or breath.
This needs some editing for clarification.

Overall, much too strong.

Aquillion
2008-08-30, 11:46 PM
Way way too powerful. Free Wish is absurd. Extra actions are very very dangerous, and giving a full round of them is far too much.

At most, give them the ability to sometimes cast one of their lower-level arcane and divine standard-action or faster spells at the same time. Limit it by level, so they can't spam two of their highest-level spells at once.

thegurullamen
2008-08-30, 11:53 PM
I agree with the "OMG overpowered!!!" argument. Quickened Wish is Epic broken (literally), the Aegis ability is awkwardly worded, two full-rounds in a row is also Epic broken (though it can be achieved pre-Epic through some cheesiness, but that's neither here nor there.) I like the capstone, but I think it's been done to death. Consider granting another level spellcasting slots without granting access to spells of that level. So, you technically have the ability to cast 9th level spells because you have 9th level slots, you just can't prep/learn/cast any 9th level spells on your class' spell list and instead have to prep Meta'd 8th or lower spells or just regular 8th or lowers, but with full 9th level DCs.

Jaerc
2008-08-31, 04:04 AM
Thank you Jack_Smith for that swift critique. I'll address your concerns below.

I committed a major copy and paste error and left one of the pre-reqs wrong. It needs to read '5th' level spells not 2nd. *shudder*

Formatting will come when I learn the tables better.

Extra Domain is in the MH and possibly CD as well. It can be taken as early as 1st level. You were close though, it first debuted as an Epic feat but aht's long since past.

The feat choices and both exemplars of the arcane and divine schools. Furthermore they somewhat limits the acquisition of metamagic feats.

Well as they say 2+2 equals 4. :P Actually this stems from the fact that I designed this to be compliant with my homebrew rules which grant +2 skill points to everyone and thus 4+Int is a direct progression from cleric and wizard. If this isn't a rule in your game, simply lower it back to the core-progression of 2+Int.

Actions not designated should always be read as free. However maximum bonus based on level is an important cap.

Dual Action is achieved at lower level in the Thrall of Demogorgen and another prestige class. Also important to note is the existence of teh belt of battle which also allows what you just suggested. That suggestion could also happen if you got the surprise round and had a high initiative. Bottom line, this is not broken.

It's not the job of the prestige class to spell out rules related to it that are covered elsewhere. When a metamagic spell is reduced it is always to a minimum of zero. This was not based on the spell points variant. Instead it grants a normal Vancian caster a limited supply of spell points. This should be limited to oncer per encounter. As a side note your unlimited healing example is silly since any party of this level should be fully healed before every encounter regardless.

The allowance or armour and shields was purposeful. In fact that was one of the intents of the spell. Yes it circumvents certian immunities (though this is hardly a problem in terms of energy) and yes it breaks (fluff-based) alignment precidents.


Your next issue shows my error as explained above. In fact you would have to be 19th level to accomplish this. The wording though here is pretty sketchy and will be tightened to prevent wishes not directly related to the situation.

I realize that editing needs to be done on Mythic Apothesis for aesthetics.

~
I belive the rest of the concerns were addressed above, though I just wanted to point out again that Dual Action is not-Epic and can be achieved sans any cheese.

AgentPaper
2008-08-31, 10:49 AM
At the very least make it require 3rd level spellcasting in divine and arcane. That way, you need to be level 10 at least before going into the Theurge, which puts you at 20 once you hit level 10 in it. Higher levels would allow for more of this power. Also, while changing the type of spell is cool, it shouldn't allow cheese to happen, like the stated mind control issue. Good clerics animating undead is cool, cheese is not.