A Rant on Confidence

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Frankly I think this thing called 'confidence' is highly overrated and it annoys me.

You hear people all the time say they sided with someone because they were so confident or that confidence is an attractive trait.

Like. Hell.

For instance there is this guy in charge of the rec department for my county. I found myself respecting this guy because it seemed he was always on top of things, cool in the face of all the hustle and bustle of getting dozens of teams together and situated etc. Just absolutely radiated confidence in himself and his abilities.

Week later I have nothing but contempt for the dude as I find out he doesn't actually know what he's doing, he's bungling everything... but never loses his cool. Basically it's all an absolute front.

If you are confident you can handle anything then when something you didn't plan for springs up you are in fact left unable to handle things. I don't know how many times I've been disappointed because someone was 'confident' or how many 'confident' assumptions have been made. They didn't really know but by golly they were sure!

I say you need to always be prepared to say 'No, I'm not confident. It's just my best guess' because that's what all of life is. A gamble.

Now, don't confuse this with faith. There is a difference.

Anyways, here is a 'motivational' poster that I made to make my point...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c273/AwakenedDreamer/Posters/Confidence.jpg

[SurlySeraph]

I very much agree that confidence is overrated. The self-esteem movement, focused on making sure children feel good about themselves, particularly bothers me. If you're good at something, you should feel good. If you aren't, you should feel bad until you can do something useful. Not everyone deserves to be happy.
However, it is undeniable that confidence is an attractive trait. It's easier to like someone who likes his or herself. Which is, ya know, why I've never had a significant other.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Oh, you can feel good about yourself and not be confident in everything. Maybe my problem is almost everyone seems to have overconfidence.

You can be a total scumbag and be absolutely confident in yourself.

[SDF]

Not everyone deserves to be happy.

Whoa now. I don't think anyone should have to do something to be happy. Then again most people aren't, but I don't think it's because they do or don't deserve it.

I think I've learned to act confident when I need to. For job interviews and the like, but I've found there was always a fine line between acting confident and being a cocky d-bag.

[Crow]

I very much agree that confidence is overrated. The self-esteem movement, focused on making sure children feel good about themselves, particularly bothers me. If you're good at something, you should feel good. If you aren't, you should feel bad until you can do something useful. Not everyone deserves to be happy.


Dude, you're so wrong. Everyone deserves a participation trophy!

*puke*

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Dude, you're so wrong. Everyone deserves a participation trophy!

*puke*
Hahaha

Ok, maybe I should rephrase it. Confidence is over-rated in the fact that too many have confidence when they shouldn't.

You should be confident in your ability to know when you should be confident or not.

[Arioch]

Hahaha

Ok, maybe I should rephrase it. Confidence is over-rated in the fact that too many have confidence when they shouldn't.

You should be confident in your ability to know when you should be confident or not.

So you're saying that, while confidence is good, you shouldn't allow it to pull the wool over your eyes? Because that seems very sensible.


Dude, you're so wrong. Everyone deserves a participation trophy!

*puke*

Remember, it doesn't matter whether you won or lost, as long as you took part.

Does anyone really believe that?

[The Vorpal Tribble]

So you're saying that, while confidence is good, you shouldn't allow it to pull the wool over your eyes? Because that seems very sensible.
I suppose something like that. Or at least that you need sense to know when or when not to be confident, and not to trust someone just because they seem so.

[Icewalker]

So, simplified to just a message, losing the finer details of meaning:
competence > confidence?

Good philosophy. Makes sense, certainly.

[Midnight Son]

Remember, it doesn't matter whether you won or lost, as long as you took part.

Does anyone really believe that?Everyone gets to bat. Everyone gets to run the bases. What are the outfielders for? Glorified ball fetchers...Modern baseball at the elementary school level.

How I yearn for the days when dodgeball was an acceptable form of determining the class pecking order. Shoot, its so bad, even Firefox doesn't recognize the word.

[bosssmiley]

Week later I have nothing but contempt for the dude as I find out he doesn't actually know what he's doing, he's bungling everything... but never loses his cool. Basically it's all an absolute front.

"Plausibility is everything; fake that, and you've got it made." :smallbiggrin:

What can you do, eh? Sooner or later Joe Cool will balls it up beyond his ability to 'cool customer' his way through it. Until that outhouse hits the windmill, just plough your own furrow and try to avoid an ulcer.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

So, simplified to just a message, losing the finer details of meaning:
competence > confidence?
YES! That is a good nutshell of it.

Seriously, you can be supremely competent in something yet not confident you can handle everything. You just have to wait to see if you can handle it. In such a way you are prepared.

You can be perfectly happy with yourself and be like that, and the world would probably be a much better place for it.

I'll take someone who's prepared and willing over merely confident any day.

[Pyrian]

See, people tend to think that confident people are competent. I mean, that conclusion makes a certain amount of sense; it ought to correlate. It just doesn't always...

[Mx.Silver]

See, people tend to think that confident people are competent. I mean, that conclusion makes a certain amount of sense; it ought to correlate. It just doesn't always...

Yes, particularly since unconfident people are unlikely to recognise if they are, in fact, competent.

[Pyrian]

Yes, particularly since unconfident people are unlikely to recognise if they are, in fact, competent.I find that very rare outside of untested youths. Incompetents who act all righteous in their ignorance, however, are dime-a-dozen.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Some people say I'm very confident.

But I"m not, oh I suck, I suck waaay bad.

I just dont really care what other people think or do.

[Warpfire]

I think what you're really complaining about here is overconfidence. Which is an entirely different thing from confidence.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Meh. I figured it out a long time ago. As long as you look like you know what you're doing, no one is going to question you.

SurlySeraph, there's very good reasons for the self-esteem movement and the like. Way too many teenagers are having depression with schemas like "I'm worthless" and "no-one likes me," and the main reason it happens is because some people keep telling them "you're worthless" or "you're a moron."

[Mastikator]

People who revel in their overconfidence are just as repulsive as those who revel in insecurity, in my humble opinion. I think it should be earned, but at the same time I've had it with those who fall back on "I'm such a loser, I such, bla bla bla". Being average is adequate.

[Sneak]

I think what you're really complaining about here is overconfidence. Which is an entirely different thing from confidence.

I agree with this. Confidence is a good thing. Overconfidence is not.

[Don Julio Anejo]

People who revel in their overconfidence are just as repulsive as those who revel in insecurity, in my humble opinion. I think it should be earned, but at the same time I've had it with those who fall back on "I'm such a loser, I such, bla bla bla". Being average is adequate.
Overconfident people are at least healthy psychologically and can function in society, even if other people don't like them very much. Insecure people are NOT healthy, most of the time they're in depression and/or too afraid to do anything out of fear of failure.

[xPANCAKEx]

there is a fine line between confidence and self delussion

confidence is great. I'd rather be surrounded by confident failiures than people who were too afraid to even try

[chiasaur11]

I feel Lewis's statements on how a good man knows better that he is not wholly (or even very) good, and therefore thinks worse of himself than a total ass apply here. He also mentioned it applies to most fields of endevor.

While he did seem fine with justifiable confidence in your own ability to solve specific problem, the general principle here seems to indicate many of the worst people think of themselves as the best.

So, yeah. Confidence is overrated. At least a bully with self esteem issues can be beaten by insulting his mother until he falls over blubbering on the floor.

[Admiral_Kelly]

Confidence is the key to success. If you are not sure in your ability to achieve something you will never obtain it. It is not 'I will try to get this done.' it is 'I will get this done.' Oh, sure, you may fail or something may come up which stops you, but the important thing is the mindset which matters not the actual facts. And, with a varying amount of luck, you will be able to get where you want. Lack of confidence will not give you that drive.

It sounds more like to me the original poster has no idea what he is talking about.

[Wraithy]

Erm...I...aaa. Nevermind
*Hides under desk*

[Dallas-Dakota]

Confidence is the key to success. If you are not sure in your ability to achieve something you will never obtain it. It is not 'I will try to get this done.' it is 'I will get this done.' Oh, sure, you may fail or something may come up which stops you, but the important thing is the mindset which matters not the actual facts. And, with a varying amount of luck, you will be able to get where you want. Lack of confidence will not give you that drive.

It sounds more like to me the original poster has no idea what he is talking about.
They key thing here should be : I will try to get it done.

[Cyrano]

Confidence is the key to success. If you are not sure in your ability to achieve something you will never obtain it. It is not 'I will try to get this done.' it is 'I will get this done.' Oh, sure, you may fail or something may come up which stops you, but the important thing is the mindset which matters not the actual facts. And, with a varying amount of luck, you will be able to get where you want. Lack of confidence will not give you that drive.

It sounds more like to me the original poster has no idea what he is talking about.

Congratulations on the amazing Reflex save! That point almost got you!

EDIT: Wait wait wait, it should be, "My condolences on your poor attack roll, but don't worry, you can try and hit the point next round!"

Ooh! Ooh! No! I should just say "YUR RONG" and then run off chortling.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I, personally, find that more foten than not, people who are confident in themselves are delusional.
To put it in the most base way I can, which shows you my thought process:

"Confident people get shot. Everyone else wears kevlar."

Confidence is a disadvantageous abnormality. As is self-esteem. The goal is to "Dig and Love your home" confident people more often than not never even pick up a shovel, its those with low self-esteem who are never satisifed no matter how deep they dig, and, therefore, keep digging.

Thats right, I think the digging is more important.
Props and cookies for the referance.

[Cubey]

My thoughts on the subject.
In general, being confident about something you CAN do is good. But being or acting confident on something you CANNOT do, or cannot do well, means you're a d-bag.

However, this is how stuff goes: people who are reasonable or moral are often aware of their own limits, so they are self-conscious and not confident. While on the other hand, idiots tend to be very self-confident even if they can't do crap. It doesn't mean that confidence is a bad thing - if you see a confident jerk, what's wrong about him is that he's a jerk and not that he's confident! Instead of somehow feeling superior because of your own lack of confidence, as unconfident people sometimes tend to do, they should change and:
1. Find things that they are good about. Each person has one. If you can't find anything, look harder.
2. Feel less self-conscious because there is at least that one thing they're good about.

I, for example, have very large confidence issues. However, I try not to let them take over. Because there are things I am good at, and that makes me feel good. For example, my English tends to be not bad for someone who has it as his second language.

EDIT: Post above me is further proof. A person who keeps on digging is confident. Not in the "everything will turn out okay so I don't have to do anything" way. That's not confidence, that's stupidity. Thinking "I can do better, and I WILL do better, so let's do it!" is confidence. A person who is unconfident won't do anything because they are afraid it will fail anyway.

[tribble]

Confidence is saying "think I can" and you can.
OVERconfidence is saying "I think I can" when you cant.

[Cubey]

Confidence is saying "think I can" and you can.
OVERconfidence is saying "I think I can" when you cant.

Well said. Short and to the point.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Confidence is saying "think I can" and you can.
OVERconfidence is saying "I think I can" when you cant.

Respectfully disagree.
The first is competance, or a correct estimation of your own abilities.
The second is optimisim and an incorrect estimation of your own abilties.

[SurlySeraph]

Meh. I figured it out a long time ago. As long as you look like you know what you're doing, no one is going to question you.

SurlySeraph, there's very good reasons for the self-esteem movement and the like. Way too many teenagers are having depression with schemas like "I'm worthless" and "no-one likes me," and the main reason it happens is because some people keep telling them "you're worthless" or "you're a moron."

Could be, but I don't know any of them. In high school, there were maybe six people in my grade of 140 people who didn't seem incredibly vain and overconfident to me. But then, I went to a rich-ass private school.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Could be, but I don't know any of them. In high school, there were maybe six people in my grade of 140 people who didn't seem incredibly vain and overconfident to me. But then, I went to a rich-ass private school.
:biggrin:

In public school there's always these kids called "goth" or "emo" who just sit there and whine about how "life is pain" or "I should just end it and kill myself." Granted, nowadays most of them do it because it's fashionable to have an angsty phase, there's still problems. Just that now depressed kids don't become emo anymore, they sit and mope in the bathroom.

In your situation it's obviously different. 95% of those kids were probably told from birth that "you're privileged," "you're better than everyone else" and the like. Even if their parents didn't say that, other people treated them as such. Obviously this has the exact opposite effect than telling someone they're a worthless moron.

[SDF]

Could be, but I don't know any of them. In high school, there were maybe six people in my grade of 140 people who didn't seem incredibly vain and overconfident to me. But then, I went to a rich-ass private school.

I always thought the self-esteem feelgood philosophy I got in grade and high school was crap. It was so obviously patronizing and insulting to my intelligence. And in HS I was miserable a, let's face it, not small portion of the time. But the, "You're awesome, I'm awesome, we're all awesome," thing didn't do anything. As someone who also attended a rich ass-private school, too.

[Thanatos 51-50]

In public school there's always these kids called "goth" or "emo" who just sit there and whine about how "life is pain" or "I should just end it and kill myself." Granted, nowadays most of them do it because it's fashionable to have an angsty phase, there's still problems. Just that now depressed kids don't become emo anymore, they sit and mope in the bathroom.

Really? Most of the Goths and Emos I hung out with philosophised alot. Sure, there was plenty of the "Life is Pain", but you'd be hard-pressed to find one of us who considered putting a gun to our head or a blade to our wirsts, on any other form of suicide for any reasons besides academic curiosity.
The suicides are the people over there.
They're the ones that look happy.


Could be, but I don't know any of them. In high school, there were maybe six people in my grade of 140 people who didn't seem incredibly vain and overconfident to me. But then, I went to a rich-ass private school.

Man, I don't think I'd be able to stomach going to a private school. Especially a "rich-ass" one.
For me, public school meant private entertainment!
Private school? Pay for the "privelage" of learning the exact same thing those guys over there are learning?
Except, you see, here you "get to" wear a "spiffy" uniform, and have a fancy name attatched to your High School Alma Matter.

It all seems very... decadent, to me.
No matter how much money I make in life, or where I am, if I ever have children they will go to public school.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I was just stereotyping. But depression IS a major issue.

[Totally Guy]

Here's a little trick I do. When some body tells me they are not a confident person I tell them they're wrong. If the trick works they turn back to me and say "No, I'm not!":smallmad: but it's the way they say it. With absolute conviction.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I was just stereotyping. But depression IS a major issue.

Not as major as some people make it out to be. Everyone gets depressed.
As teenagers, when our hormones/emotions are hightened, depression gets slightly more dangerous, agreed.

Those people who kill themselves because of it are humans with a disadvantageous mutation.

Being sad, "dark", et cetera doesn't impact how one performs.
I am one of those perpetually sad, "dark" people. If you even try to suggest anti-depressants to me, I will first politely refuse.
Then loudly refuse.
Then angrily refuse.

This continues until we get to the violence.


Here's a little trick I do. When some body tells me they are not a confident person I tell them they're wrong. If the trick works they turn back to me and say "No, I'm not!":smallmad: but it's the way they say it. With absolute conviction.
Conviction =/= Confidence.
Simular, yeah, but not the same.

Edit'd in also:
What if your trick doesn't work? What if the response is more like:
:smallsigh: "No, man, I'm not. I'm really, really not. I just charge forward because without that, everyone stands on the line and gets shot."
or:
:smallconfused: "What makes you say that?"
or even:
:smallsmile: "Thanks for your vote of confidence, but, I ain't"

[Don Julio Anejo]

People who suggest anti-depressants when a person is not on a bridge, ready to jump off or when a person is not in a clinical depression from death-related trauma or somesuch in 90% of the cases don't know what they're doing.

I'm very much for having physicians refer people with depression to psychologists/counselors rather than prescribe Prozac. It's gotten to a point where it goes something like this:

"Doctor, I've been feeling kinda sad these last few days and I don't know why. Do you know what to do?"
"Of course. Here's some Prozac. Take it twice daily and don't mix it with alcohol."

Back on topic: the major issue with lack of confidence is that it also often comes with a lack of assertiveness. Hence, being unable to stand up to bullies, defend yourself when someone calls you a stupid moron and being used by people who have that assertiveness.

[SurlySeraph]

Here's a little trick I do. When some body tells me they are not a confident person I tell them they're wrong. If the trick works they turn back to me and say "No, I'm not!":smallmad: but it's the way they say it. With absolute conviction.

That... that is the absolute best use of reverse psychology I have ever heard of. You win a cookie.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

I very much agree that confidence is overrated. The self-esteem movement, focused on making sure children feel good about themselves, particularly bothers me. If you're good at something, you should feel good. If you aren't, you should feel bad until you can do something useful. Not everyone deserves to be happy.
However, it is undeniable that confidence is an attractive trait. It's easier to like someone who likes his or herself. Which is, ya know, why I've never had a significant other.

The real problem I have with the self esteem movement is that is tends to punish those who are talented and put more effort into things. Like good students are sometimes discouraged from doing better because it might make the other kids "feel bad". All this does it teach kids that's it's fine to do poor work and feel jealous of others.

First of all, if someone does a bad job because they were lazy or irresponsible, then yes, they should feel bad about it.

But on the other hand, if you're not good at something because you're not fit for it, like lacking a certain talent, or because of a disability, you shouldn't feel bad about it.

If someone's not a good athlete because they're just not talented in that area, then they shouldn't feel bad about it.

If someone's not a good reader because of a learning disability, then they should be helped, but not feel bad about it.

But if someone's a good athlete because they take "performance enhancing" drugs, then they should feel bad about it.

If someone's a good student only because they cheat, then they should feel bad about it.

People shouldn't feel bad about gifts they don't have. But they should use the gift and talents they do have.

People should feel good about themselves. Being "emo" gets you nowhere.

[Cyrano]

As someone who also attended a rich, ass private school, too.

Was that lovely punctuation intentional? If so, major kudos for subtlety. If not, still kudos, but they're directed to your subconciousness.

[Thanatos 51-50]

People should feel good about themselves. Being "emo" gets you nowhere.

Respectfully disagree.
Humans are LAZY.
We have to be threatend by our religions to be good people. I've observed that more people do "Good" because they're afraid of going to "The Bad Place" rather than out of any inherint goodness.

Therefore, if people feel happy and content, they stop digging.
Being discontent (or "emo" as its often categorized) is the only thing that has ever cause change in this world.

Admittidly, some of that change has been for ill. But at least humanity didn't sit around with their thumbs up their rears.
Also, some of the change has been good.

Change, foward motion, socity's progress, or whatever you want to call it is a mixed bag.
A stagnant, homeostatic being atrophies.
Moar discontent, plz, kthnxbai.

[SDF]

Was that lovely punctuation intentional? If so, major kudos for subtlety. If not, still kudos, but they're directed to your subconciousness.

Aw, you're right. I should have used a hyphen, but it's okay I fixed it.

And, I'd like to take this time to make a plea that people not use the word emo as a blanket term for overly angsty teenagers. It is a misnomer and bothers me.

[TeeEl]

Confidence is merely a crutch for those who aren't as inherently awesome as me. :smalltongue:


Could be, but I don't know any of them. In high school, there were maybe six people in my grade of 140 people who didn't seem incredibly vain and overconfident to me. But then, I went to a rich-ass private school.

Just because someone seems incredibly vain and overconfident doesn't mean that they don't have issues of low self-esteem; this sort of attitude is prevalent as a defense mechanism for insecurity issues. And while I think rah-rah feelgood is often obnoxiously over-the-top I don't fault schools for attempting to bolster self-esteem, in their own misguided way. I was a semi-overachiever in school in spite of being one of the laziest people in my class, a fact which I attribute first and foremost to differences in mindset. I don't think many of my classmates were actually less capable than I was; they just got hung up on the idea that schoolwork was difficult, where I never did.

[Lilly]

I am confident (p< 0.05) that this thread is not about insulting each other.

So Don't

[Collin152]

Here's a little trick I do. When some body tells me they are not a confident person I tell them they're wrong.

Ignoring that I'd never call myself confident, my response woul most assuredly be, "Am I?"
That's how I resopnd to just about any instance of "You're wrong" on a subjective matter, though.

[13_CBS]

Eh, confidence is useful. It helps to trust your own capabilities in, say, a musical performance--not doing so can often mess up your audition.