PDA

View Full Version : Half-dragons...



Nemoricus
2008-08-31, 06:46 PM
...when the other half is also dragon.

More specifically, what do you get when you cross two different true dragon varieties?

A particularly thorny cross is Silver (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/draco_gallery/75583.jpg) and Gold (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/draco_gallery/75587.jpg). The wing structures are completely different, and they're two different, and opposing, elemental subtypes.

Solutions:

1. Have half the offspring be one hue and the other half the other.
Pros: Simple.
Cons: Lazy, and inconsistent with D&D's normal approach to half-breecs.

Lyndworm
2008-08-31, 06:55 PM
Well to be honest, I am inconsistent with D&D's halfbreeds.

RAW, it can't be done. The Half-Dragon template makes can't be appplied to dragons. Problem solved.

How I'd actually handle it, however, is to declare the hybrid pale gold in color, possibly with lighter or darker patches/patterns.

As for the wing structure... Well, I hate gold dragon wings anyway and don't use them in my descriptions. However, if it was that important to you I'd say roll a percentile. 50- silver wings, 51+ gold wings.

Roll an additional percentile for elemental affiliation.

Zack

sonofzeal
2008-08-31, 06:57 PM
...when the other half is also dragon.

More specifically, what do you get when you cross two different true dragon varieties?

A particularly thorny cross is Silver (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/draco_gallery/75583.jpg) and Gold (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/draco_gallery/75587.jpg). The wing structures are completely different, and they're two different, and opposing, elemental subtypes.

Solutions:

1. Have half the offspring be one hue and the other half the other.
Pros: Simple.
Cons: Lazy, and inconsistent with D&D's normal approach to half-breecs.
The half-dragon template can be applied to "any living, corporeal creature". Dragons are living, corporeal creatures. Hence, in theory, crossbreeding dragons increases their power (but also their LA) substantially. This could be balanced out thematically by extremely low birthrates for such unions, or a high risk of systemic deformity. Come to think of it, maybe that's the origin of the Kobold race - crossbreeds of different dragons that failed to unlock the power of the Half-Dragon True Dragon produce Kobolds instead. This explains why Kobolds are not associated with any particular type of dragon! It also leads in to a great campaign hook, of a giant crossbreeding project among dragonkind, attempting to produce a Black/Blue/Green/Red/White dragon under the orders of Tiamut, with a giant horde of kobolds being produced in the mean time.

edit - as to wing structure, use whatever you think is coolest and claim the others are recessive.

xPANCAKEx
2008-08-31, 07:07 PM
D&D inconsistent? now theres a shocker

as the for the appearance re: the wings - it would end up something like a bats wing in my mind. I would try and descrobe it better but i don't know the anatomical terminology

Lyndworm
2008-08-31, 07:14 PM
The half-dragon template can be applied to "any living, corporeal creature". Dragons are living, corporeal creatures.

Tiamut.

Oh, yeah? Well you spelled Tiamat wrong, so mneh!

Thanks for pointing that out. Apperantly I made a mistake. I'll have to alert the local authorities. :smalltongue:



it would end up something like a bats wing in my mind. I would try and descrobe it better but i don't know the anatomical terminology

Silver dragons already have "bat" wings. If you're referring to the wing membrane in some bats that trails to the tip of the tail, then nevermind.


Zack

vicente408
2008-08-31, 07:30 PM
Oh, yeah? Well you spelled Tiamat wrong, so mneh!

More like Tiamutt!

Zing!

Mando Knight
2008-08-31, 07:47 PM
As for the wing structure... Well, I hate gold dragon wings anyway and don't use them in my descriptions.

Same here. I dislike the fish-fin type wings that they seem to like putting on Metallic Dragons, especially Gold ones, so I always say that they've got the bat-like wing structure instead. It fits more with what I see as a dragon, and the bat-wings look more agile in the air than the fish-fin ones.

Leewei
2008-08-31, 08:51 PM
Am I reading this right? An electrum dragon? I see some potential for humor and AD&D throwback references.

Chronos
2008-08-31, 08:55 PM
...and the bat-wings look more agile in the air than the fish-fin ones.Spoken like a fellow who's never seen a gold dragon in flight. Majestic, I tell you... It's not so much like flying, as swimming through the air.

If you do decide to go with the half-dragon template, it still leaves the question of whether you apply the half-silver template to a gold, or the half-gold template to a silver. But it could be a lot worse...

I've occasionally contemplated the possibility of a union between a gold dragon and a solar. It's plausible enough; they're both ultra-powerful paragons of good, and either can mate with anything. But are the offspring half-dragon solars, or half-celestial dragons? The resulting abilities are completely different between those two.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-08-31, 08:57 PM
Spoken like a fellow who's never seen a gold dragon in flight. Majestic, I tell you... It's not so much like flying, as swimming through the air.

If you do decide to go with the half-dragon template, it still leaves the question of whether you apply the half-silver template to a gold, or the half-gold template to a silver. But it could be a lot worse...

I've occasionally contemplated the possibility of a union between a gold dragon and a solar. It's plausible enough; they're both ultra-powerful paragons of good, and either can mate with anything. But are the offspring half-dragon solars, or half-celestial dragons? The resulting abilities are completely different between those two.If possible, I prefer to rule it as the Mother supplies the "Base Creature", the Father supplies the Template. That way you don't have to figure out how a Solar would give birth to an egg.

Collin152
2008-08-31, 09:01 PM
I've occasionally contemplated the possibility of a union between a gold dragon and a solar. It's plausible enough; they're both ultra-powerful paragons of good, and either can mate with anything. But are the offspring half-dragon solars, or half-celestial dragons? The resulting abilities are completely different between those two.

A Half-Dragon Half-Celestial Human.

Deth Muncher
2008-08-31, 09:02 PM
A Half-Dragon Half-Celestial Human.

This sentence also falls under "/break maths."

See also, "(roll) 1d0 (/roll) [1]"

Collin152
2008-08-31, 09:09 PM
This sentence also falls under "/break maths."


Not if Human=0

Deth Muncher
2008-08-31, 09:12 PM
Not if Human=0


That...wow. That's pretty deep. Too deep for this forum, in fact.

DMfromTheAbyss
2008-08-31, 09:16 PM
I tried to run a game where everyone could make up dragons as PC's years ago... things were not going well on the front of choosing colors though, then someone suggested mixing two colors to get a different color...

Well the upshot was a lot of cool ideas, and some silly ones. Ranging from the red/mercury "plazma" dragon (light and fire damage?), the Black/red "Crimson" dragon that breathes napalm, and the silver/copper that ended up with acidic frost that we labeled a tin dragon (though I have already been informed the metalurgy does not work out... the name stuck)

Then you also get the ultimate-in a perpetually bad mood-dragon of Chaotic evilness... the Pink Dragon.

But seriously wouldn't this give players a hoot... till they discovered it was actually pretty tough, angry and used to fighting off other dragons becouse of it's "unique" coloration (definately levels of barbarian... Enaged Pink Dragon!!)

Though old 2nd ed had a bunch more dragons that I at least have never seen in 3.x. Going from old dragon magazines /Monster manuals there were already "mixes" in dragon color and a few "new" colors like brown and yellow (badgerish dragon and antlion dragon respectively)

For a simple mechanic take the stats of the parents... average them and then try to conceptualize what a combination of the breath weapons would do.

For real fun add in gem dragons, adamantium dragons, prismatic, force, shadow, etc for a full and motley array of bizzare concepts.

Leader:"Okay guys we're fighting a plaid dragon, what resistance spells should we memorize?"
Wiseguy:"Probably all of them!"
Caster: "DOH!"

chiasaur11
2008-08-31, 09:16 PM
But as a wise man once said "Even the deepest puddle is subservient to the Ocean."

Note: I hust made this up. It means nothing. Or does it?

celestialkin
2008-08-31, 09:20 PM
Am I reading this right? An electrum dragon? I see some potential for humor and AD&D throwback references.

Please explain all that for us who have only played since 3.x. (Not by choice, simply due to age.) :smallsmile:



Spoken like a fellow who's never seen a gold dragon in flight. Majestic, I tell you... It's not so much like flying, as swimming through the air.

If you do decide to go with the half-dragon template, it still leaves the question of whether you apply the half-silver template to a gold, or the half-gold template to a silver. But it could be a lot worse...

I've occasionally contemplated the possibility of a union between a gold dragon and a solar. It's plausible enough; they're both ultra-powerful paragons of good, and either can mate with anything. But are the offspring half-dragon solars, or half-celestial dragons? The resulting abilities are completely different between those two.

Percentile, percentile, percentile!

In my personal opinion I feel all those possibilities would exist. I figure it would all depend on which parent's genes were more dominant, and which sperm cell gets there first.

Although I dislike this due to it suggesting women are "submissive"/"weaker"/"inferior"/etc, you can always have it so the mother gives the submissive traits (being the template dragon, or the template on the dragon) and have the father give the dominant traits (being the base creature/dragon/whatever which gets the template put on). Then again, you could have it so it's the other way around. Look up the crosses between lions and tigers to see where I am getting at, and why.

Basically, the difference in how a female tiger's and a female lionesses' body affects their fertilized eggs (the female lion produces a chemical which suppress' the size of the offspring inside her, while a tiger does not), and the difference in how a male tiger's and a male lion's genes in their sperm affects a child (since male lions often own tribes of females in groups, they group-mate/gangbang all the females. this leads to female lions having cubs from different males insider her at the same time, which has lead to male lions passing a gene which causes their offspring to grow HUGE, but is now suppressed by the female lions) causes very different results depending which creature is the mother and which is the father.

Deth Muncher
2008-08-31, 09:23 PM
Please explain all that for us who have only played since 3.x. (Not by choice, simply due to age.) :smallsmile:


Electrium is an alloy of gold and silver.

I believe you can still find it...somewhere...in 3.5.

celestialkin
2008-08-31, 09:27 PM
Electrium is an alloy of gold and silver.

I believe you can still find it...somewhere...in 3.5.

Thanks, that answers that part. :smallsmile:

What I really wanted to know, though, was what AD&D references he was mentioning.

Nemoricus
2008-08-31, 09:28 PM
I was going to keep this topic serious, but after seeing the responses, I think it'll be more fun to just let it go.

Half-Solar, Half-Gold Dragon, hmm...I believe I read somewhere that in older D&D editions, the outsider type was above the dragon type, so it'd be a half-celestial gold dragon.

InkEyes
2008-08-31, 09:44 PM
Thanks, that answers that part. :smallsmile:

What I really wanted to know, though, was what AD&D references he was mentioning.

If I had to guess, I'd say it's because in editions prior to 3.x, electrum pieces were part of the standard currency and were worth more than silver and less than gold.

Lyndworm
2008-08-31, 11:11 PM
I think it'll be more fun to just let it go.

What's this? Someone having fun on the internet? Come, my brothers, we must put a stop to this at once!

Zack

Samakain
2008-08-31, 11:47 PM
A particularly thorny cross is Silver (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/draco_gallery/75583.jpg) and Gold (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/draco_gallery/75587.jpg). The wing structures are completely different, and they're two different, and opposing, elemental subtypes.



i remember writing a story behind just such a thing. I reasoned that such an unlikely event to occur, occurred. I also reasoned the genetics behind such a union due to opposing elemental types and you know, /bone structure/ would make actual conception near impossible, but it happened.

Obviously this event was divinely inspired, and electrum is kinda silvery white, much like platinum.. and thus we had our Dragon Favoured Soul, Son of Bahamut. :D (instead of getting wings, he got Big B's "your-atoms-no-long-exist" breath weapon) best NPC i ever had XD.

Then of course, my friend pointed out that this was sadly imbalanced, and that tiamatt should get a daughter, i informed him under no circumstances would i include or oversee a dragon orgy that includes a hydra :( as such things are want to make me sad.

Seriously though, i don't think that crossbreeds would go down to well with the dragons themselves, but if it did happen i think that you would pick up traits from both? that or just sit on the edge of the nest with a big head playing sweet home Alabama on your dragon-sized banjo?

mmm, if i had my choice, i'd mate a Black and a White - the Grey Dragon, Lord of Meh and Apathy. Its breath weapon would be a gaseous cloud that reduced you to 1 con and made you drowzy and bitter.

Sa
Out.

Nemoricus
2008-08-31, 11:49 PM
The internet may be serious business, but having fun is also serious business.

celestialkin
2008-08-31, 11:52 PM
........
.... that or just sit on the edge of the nest with a big head playing sweet home Alabama on your dragon-sized banjo?


Wait, isn't that supposed to happen when you inbreed? This would classify as outbreeding (I forget the term...), which supposedly makes you genetically superior.

Take Tiger Woods and Tarra Whatever for example!

celestialkin
2008-08-31, 11:54 PM
The internet may be serious business, but having fun is also serious business.

Oh dear Sardior, how many /b/tards do we have here? :smalleek:

Recaiden
2008-08-31, 11:54 PM
This was mentioned in Draconomicon and an article on the wizards site. It basically said that the dragon was half each color, and had about the average of the 2 stats.

BRC
2008-08-31, 11:55 PM
Wait, thinking about it... Half Dragon Halfelf. How would that be different from a Half dragon elf, I mean, you can't be half dragon, half human, and half elven, that's too many halves!

chiasaur11
2008-09-01, 12:02 AM
Oh dear Sardior, how many /b/tards do we have here? :smalleek:

Now, let's be fair. The terminology has seeped everywhere on the internet. It isn't sufficient proof to burn someone at the stake. Yet.

celestialkin
2008-09-01, 12:06 AM
Now, let's be fair. The terminology has seeped everywhere on the internet. It isn't sufficient proof to burn someone at the stake. Yet.

True, true.

But then again, what other kind of people are surfing forums like this at this hour?

Kyeudo
2008-09-01, 12:06 AM
I've been wanting to use a pink dragon against my PCs for a while. Half-White Red Dragon, bitter from being looked down upon by other dragons but possessing all the fun of Fire and Ice breath. :smallbiggrin:

celestialkin
2008-09-01, 12:09 AM
I've been wanting to use a pink dragon against my PCs for a while. Half-White Red Dragon, bitter from being looked down upon by other dragons but possessing all the fun of Fire and Ice breath. :smallbiggrin:

Dude, may I please steal this idea? It is awesome.

Plus, you can make it a guy, so when the PCs most likely call it a her...:smallbiggrin:

BobVosh
2008-09-01, 12:20 AM
Wait, thinking about it... Half Dragon Halfelf. How would that be different from a Half dragon elf, I mean, you can't be half dragon, half human, and half elven, that's too many halves!

I presume you meant a dragon and a half elf got it on. That would be halfdragon, quarter elf, and quarter human. Also one of the worst races ever, as halfelf is terrible, halfdragon is horrid, and only a quarter human is 3/4 too low.


Now, let's be fair. The terminology has seeped everywhere on the internet. It isn't sufficient proof to burn someone at the stake. Yet.


True, true.

But then again, what other kind of people are surfing forums like this at this hour?

I like btardism...mostly. I am night auditor at a hotel. What would you do with 8 hours to surf the internet and almost everywhere blocked?


I've been wanting to use a pink dragon against my PCs for a while. Half-White Red Dragon, bitter from being looked down upon by other dragons but possessing all the fun of Fire and Ice breath. :smallbiggrin:

In one of my games I always wanted to make a dumb (low int and wisdom) Half red-white dragon. Then get an incrediably intelligent wizard to ride him, possibly with feats from Dragonlance. Therefore we would have Pinky and the Brian, my greatest and worst reoccuring villians!

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-01, 12:21 AM
How can you reach /b/ then?

BobVosh
2008-09-01, 12:23 AM
I don't. I don't even try, I don't want them to see that in my record history. Sorry, I didn't mean the two were related. The second part of "what would you do with yadda yadda" was being online and posting at this time.

chiasaur11
2008-09-01, 12:24 AM
How can you reach /b/ then?

Satanic rituals?

Nemoricus
2008-09-01, 02:07 AM
This was mentioned in Draconomicon and an article on the wizards site. It basically said that the dragon was half each color, and had about the average of the 2 stats.

Where exactly did you find this? I'm fairly sure I've been through the entirety of Draconomicon and I haven't seen anything like it.

@celestialkin: My serious business comment earlier was meant to be a joke.

Kyeudo
2008-09-01, 02:30 AM
Dude, may I please steal this idea? It is awesome.

Plus, you can make it a guy, so when the PCs most likely call it a her...:smallbiggrin:

Why would it be otherwise?

Enjoy the idea. TPK your party with it. I suggest an arctic volcano as a lair, far from civilization. What better place could you get for a creature with immunity to fire and cold?

CASTLEMIKE
2008-09-01, 04:13 AM
49% chance of Silver, 49% chance of Gold, 1% chance of Silver with Gold Zebra style stripes, 1% chance of Gold with Silver Zebra stripes roll for each egg/wyrmling.:smallsmile: Striped Dragons may look odd but they receive the breath weapons for each parent.

Nemoricus
2008-09-01, 04:46 AM
What about the elemental subtype?