Xykon's Age

[Chrismith]

This is just me being nitpicky, but Xykon's listed age in War and XPs doesn't match up with what we learned in Start of Darkness. In the "30 years ago" scene in SoD, Xykon claims to be 77, meaning that in the present he should be 107. WaXPs, however, lists him as 110.

I don't really have a point...I'm just obsessive about that kind of stuff. I assume that the in-comic instance of the character explicitly stating his age trumps the summary at the beginning of a compilation.

[d'Bwobsling]

I havn't read WaXPs, but the oots storyline could have taken 3 years since Roy and co entered the dungeon

[Chrismith]

I havn't read WaXPs, but the oots storyline could have taken 3 years since Roy and co entered the dungeon

I doubt it...the character's ages have remained consistent throughout, with the exception of Roy, who just had a birthday not too long ago.

[DraPrime]

Actually I recall Roy saying something like "it's been 3 years since I last met you" to Nale back in Cliffport.

[hamishspence]

He was speaking of julia "Just because its been 3 years since we've met doesn't mean I won't fight to save her" Nale isn't present at the time, but Sabine is.

I would not put it past Xykon to lie about his age to people he's just met.

SoD:
The scene is slightly more plausible, with him and the recruiter, for him to be a teenager rather than 12.

[Chrismith]

Actually I recall Roy saying something like "it's been 3 years since I last met you" to Nale back in Cliffport.

I assume you're thinking of this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0342.html), in which Roy states that he hasn't seen Julia in the past three years. This is unsurprising, as Roy had been searching for Xykon for about that long and Julia was (presumably) in school.

Edit: Ninja'd!

[NerfTW]

Considering he listed Durkon's (or was it V's?) age wrong in the initial printings of Origin, I would go with "mistake". Or a retcon, to make the ages for the first few scenes work better.

Plus, three years is a ridiculously small amount when talking about a 110 year old.

[Lira]

Offtopic, but:

Considering he listed Durkon's (or was it V's?) age wrong in the initial printings of Origin, I would go with "mistake". Or a retcon, to make the ages for the first few scenes work better.I don't remember Durkon's age being mentioned anywhere in Origins, but I do remember's V's age as 103 in my copy Origins and 130 in No Cure and the card game. You said "initial printings of Origin", so out of curiousity, could you tell me where you found out it was fixed? Or could someone with Origins tell me if their copy says 130 for V's age?

[teratorn]

I don't remember Durkon's age being mentioned anywhere in Origins, but I do remember's V's age as 103 in my copy Origins and 130 in No Cure and the card game. You said "initial printings of Origin", so out of curiousity, could you tell me where you found out it was fixed? Or could someone with Origins tell me if their copy says 130 for V's age?

I have the third printing and it says 103.

[d'Bwobsling]

I doubt it...the character's ages have remained consistent throughout, with the exception of Roy, who just had a birthday not too long ago.

Durkon says in the latest strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html) that V's been getting under there skin for six months, and we know before that Haley says here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0412.html) that she lost her voice six weeks ago, so the entire story has probably taken place in around 7 to 8 months

[Lissou]

Durkon says in the latest strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html) that V's been getting under there skin for six months, and we know before that Haley says here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0412.html) that she lost her voice six weeks ago, so the entire story has probably taken place in around 7 to 8 months

That's not possible. When Roy died, the graph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html) showed that he had known Belkar for around a year.
We know he met him pretty much right before the beginning of the strip.
After Roy's death, 3 to 4 months passed (most characters say "almost four months" in the strip, even though most readers seem to say "3 months"), and Kazumi was 8 weeks pregnant (so, less than 2 months).
In the most recent strip, Kazumi's baby is kicking, which, according to this quote:


You should feel your baby's first movements, called "quickening," between weeks 16 and 25 of your pregnancy. If this is your first pregnancy, you may not feel your baby move until closer to 25 weeks.

means that it's been something like 8 more weeks at least, if Rich tried to be consistent with human biology. Vaarsuvius's evolution also seems to point towards it, he didn't look THAT bad after 4 months, when we saw her again, yet she looks so much worse right now that it's hard to imagine he got that much worse in less than at least a couple of months.

So, I'd day we're at something like a year and a half after strip one right now, possibly more.

EDIT: Oh, and Durkon's remark about "six months" lead me to believe that the Order split six months ago. That's consistent with the rest.

Second edit: so, if it's been a year and a half, why is there a year-and-a-half difference in Xykon's age? That's easy:

The scene that happened "30 years ago" actually happened "29 and a half years ago", but was rounded up to 30.
Xykon was not 78 yet, so he said he was 77, even though it's possible he was going to turn 78 in only a few months
(so far we're already a year older for Xykon, possibly even more)
And finally, Rich said he's 110 because he didn't want to say "109 and so many months".
So here you go. No discrepancies.

[NerfTW]

Offtopic, but:
I don't remember Durkon's age being mentioned anywhere in Origins, but I do remember's V's age as 103 in my copy Origins and 130 in No Cure and the card game. You said "initial printings of Origin", so out of curiousity, could you tell me where you found out it was fixed? Or could someone with Origins tell me if their copy says 130 for V's age?

That's what I must have been remembering. All I remembered was a post by Rich that he changed someone's age to be older, and for some reason I thought it was Durkon.

And I don't know where I got the "changed in second printings" thing, since mine also says 103.

[Chrismith]

That's what I must have been remembering. All I remembered was a post by Rich that he changed someone's age to be older, and for some reason I thought it was Durkon.

And I don't know where I got the "changed in second printings" thing, since mine also says 103.

Actually, Durkon's age in No Cure for the Paladin Blues was listed as 39, and Rich raised it to 54 after realizing that a 39-year-old dwarf wouldn't even be an adult.

[d'Bwobsling]

That's not possible. When Roy died, the graph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html) showed that he had known Belkar for around a year.
We know he met him pretty much right before the beginning of the strip.
After Roy's death, 3 to 4 months passed (most characters say "almost four months" in the strip, even though most readers seem to say "3 months"), and Kazumi was 8 weeks pregnant (so, less than 2 months).

True, but Kazumi's baby wasn't concived till 2 months (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html)after they left Azure City, and two more months could have taken place since Eugeen scryed on Elan and Co, and they fought the big red Demon on the most recent island.

[Lissou]

True, but Kazumi's baby wasn't concived till 2 months (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html)after they left Azure City, and two more months could have taken place since Eugeen scryed on Elan and Co, and they fought the big red Demon on the most recent island.

I know that. I'm using the fact that she was 8 weeks pregnant as the base there: 3-4 months after Roy's death, she was less than 2 months pregnant. Right now? She's double that or more. So around 6 months have passed since Roy died.
Add that to the year that passed BEFORE Roy died and you get a year and a half.

I'm not sure what you mean here, unless you mean Xykon's age in War and XPs is supposed to be the age at the beginning of the book rather than at the time when the reader will be likely to have the compilation (as in, right now).

If you think (or know... I don't have the book yet) the ages are at the beginning of the War and XP compilation rather than right now, than yeah, I guess a year only, not a year and a half. Still more than the 8 months you suggested, though.

[katkin]

Two words- Time Travel.

OR

Lissou's right. And I'm more inclined to believe the second.

[Chrismith]

I'm not sure what you mean here, unless you mean Xykon's age in War and XPs is supposed to be the age at the beginning of the book rather than at the time when the reader will be likely to have the compilation (as in, right now).

If you think (or know... I don't have the book yet) the ages are at the beginning of the War and XP compilation rather than right now, than yeah, I guess a year only, not a year and a half. Still more than the 8 months you suggested, though.

Even assuming that Xykon's age as listed in War and XPs is supposed to be his age right now, in comic 588 (which doesn't make much sense, as the book is a compilation of earlier comics) then he would be either 108 or 109 -- not 110, which is a discrepancy of three years.

[hamishspence]

Hence theory that his age 77 (only mentioned once, when talking to people he's just met, and never met before) might not be true.

SOD:
"Even more fun fact: I'm a total liar!"

[Chrismith]

Hence theory that his age 77 (only mentioned once, when talking to people he's just met, and never met before) might not be true.

SOD:
"Even more fun fact: I'm a total liar!"

I'm actually more inclined to believe Xykon there -- he doesn't have any particular reason to lie. He doesn't seem like the kind of person who cares about age enough to fudge it (and saying he's 77 instead of 80? If he did care enough to lie, he would have said 70 or 65) and when he mentions his age he's actually making the point that he's been around for a long time. Add that to the fact that SoD is the only in-comic mention of his age and that Rich has made mistakes in those summaries before, and I would bet that 107 (or maybe 108 by now) is Xykon's true age.

[d'Bwobsling]

I know that. I'm using the fact that she was 8 weeks pregnant as the base there: 3-4 months after Roy's death, she was less than 2 months pregnant. Right now? She's double that or more. So around 6 months have passed since Roy died.
Add that to the year that passed BEFORE Roy died and you get a year and a half.

I'm not sure what you mean here, unless you mean Xykon's age in War and XPs is supposed to be the age at the beginning of the book rather than at the time when the reader will be likely to have the compilation (as in, right now).

If you think (or know... I don't have the book yet) the ages are at the beginning of the War and XP compilation rather than right now, than yeah, I guess a year only, not a year and a half. Still more than the 8 months you suggested, though.


Yeah, there were a few times in oots where a year and a half could have passed (when Miko brough them to Azure City, or after their trial and before they left for the oracle) but the graph noted earlier disproves that. As I see it the only two options are the Giant messed up which is bound to happen from time to time like anyone else, or ,as noted above me, time travel

[Lissou]

Let me just repeat it: if his birthday was in two month, Xykon would have said "I'm 77", not "I'm 78" (Not that he said it this way, of course)
And as the dates in SoD are only years, without any mention of months, it's hard to say, but... let me try to explain something to you.

I have a brother who was born in 81, and another who was born in 83. They're "two years" apart, as they usually say. But that's not true. They're a year and 4 months apart.

A friend of mine was born in 1984. Her brother was born in 1985. They're "a year" apart. Even though they're actually a year and ten months apart.

So yeah, two people who are "a year" apart actually have a bigger age difference than two people who are "two years" apart. That's what happen when you count stuff in years rather than months, or days.

For all we know "30 years ago" meant "in 1153".

The beginning of 1153? The end of 1153? We don't know that.
Was Xykon just 77? Was he almost 78? We don't know that either.
If it was the beginning of 1153 and he was going to turn 78 in two months, it means he was born in the third months of 1075. (Let's assume there are 12 months, and call them the same way we do on Earth. So, March 1075)

If it was the end of 1153 and Xykon had just turned 77, then he would have been born in November-December 1076.

Between March 1075 and December 1076, there are 21 months. It's only 3 months short of a 2-year difference.

Add to that the year and a half that has elapsed, and really, that 3 year "difference" isn't one anymore.

(And let's not forget about the two calendars. If he was born in the beginning of 1075, it was still 1074 in Azure City. So there. It's 1184 and he's 110. Or about to turn 110. Really what if Rich just looked at it, saw that Xykon was born in 1074 and said he was 110, without realising his birthday is at the end of the year? That can happen.)

[Lissou]

Ok, ok, I thought about it again.

Strip one takes place in March, 1183 (I'll keep using "our" months for simplicity's sake).

"30 years ago" would probably be in 1152. Because March is just the beginning of the year. I'm not sure if you know what I mean, but it's like saying "last year" when you're talking about something that happened a year and a half ago.
It wouldn't be the beginning of 1152, though, because otherwise it would be "31 years ago".

So at some point in 1152, after March but before December, Xykon was 77
At some point in 1184, Xykon is 110.

If Xykon was born in 1074, he turned 78 in 1152. So the scene takes place before he does.

Conclusion, Xykon was born in 1074, probably in the second semester of the yer. He'll turn 110 soon or already did recently.

I think it works. It's possible Rich ended up rounding it up, and that Xykon is actually 109 right now, but because it's 1184 Rich thought "1184-1074 is 110, Xykon is 110".

That's the way I see it at least. I don't think it's a mistake on his part. I mean, unless the "30 years ago" rather than "30 years and 5 months ago" or something was a mistake in your mind.

[d'Bwobsling]

Ok, ok, I thought about it again.

Strip one takes place in March, 1183 (I'll keep using "our" months for simplicity's sake).

"30 years ago" would probably be in 1152. Because March is just the beginning of the year. I'm not sure if you know what I mean, but it's like saying "last year" when you're talking about something that happened a year and a half ago.
It wouldn't be the beginning of 1152, though, because otherwise it would be "31 years ago".

So at some point in 1152, after March but before December, Xykon was 77
At some point in 1184, Xykon is 110.

If Xykon was born in 1074, he turned 78 in 1152. So the scene takes place before he does.

Conclusion, Xykon was born in 1074, probably in the second semester of the yer. He'll turn 110 soon or already did recently.

I think it works. It's possible Rich ended up rounding it up, and that Xykon is actually 109 right now, but because it's 1184 Rich thought "1184-1074 is 110, Xykon is 110".

That's the way I see it at least. I don't think it's a mistake on his part. I mean, unless the "30 years ago" rather than "30 years and 5 months ago" or something was a mistake in your mind.

That make a lot more sence

[Vest Man!]

Well there is the off chance that a Chaotic Evil being such as Xykon, a lich, could lie. So there is the possibility that he is in fact older than that and lies about his age to make himself feel better that he isn't that old.
But in all fairness if it has in fact been approximately one year since the dungeon events took place. I would assume since his body was destroyed and his spirits is still alive that he is in fact 1 year old.
Though not spiritually.

[Chrismith]

Ok, ok, I thought about it again.

Strip one takes place in March, 1183 (I'll keep using "our" months for simplicity's sake).

"30 years ago" would probably be in 1152. Because March is just the beginning of the year. I'm not sure if you know what I mean, but it's like saying "last year" when you're talking about something that happened a year and a half ago.
It wouldn't be the beginning of 1152, though, because otherwise it would be "31 years ago".

So at some point in 1152, after March but before December, Xykon was 77
At some point in 1184, Xykon is 110.

If Xykon was born in 1074, he turned 78 in 1152. So the scene takes place before he does.

Conclusion, Xykon was born in 1074, probably in the second semester of the yer. He'll turn 110 soon or already did recently.

I think it works. It's possible Rich ended up rounding it up, and that Xykon is actually 109 right now, but because it's 1184 Rich thought "1184-1074 is 110, Xykon is 110".

That's the way I see it at least. I don't think it's a mistake on his part. I mean, unless the "30 years ago" rather than "30 years and 5 months ago" or something was a mistake in your mind.

One thing to keep in mind is that all of this assumes that the age listed in WaXPs is supposed to be his age right now, after the several-month period where the Order has been split up. That doesn't really make much sense, because the book covers events from the trial up to the end of the battle of AC. So even if Xykon is just barely 110 now, there's no reason to list that in this book. In fact, we know that the ages are accurate as of the book's timeframe, because Roy is listed as 28 and not 29.

The chart in 489 shows that there was almost exactly a year between the start of the comic and the end of the battle of Azure City. So even if Xykon were not-quite-78 in SoD, 30 years later he would be not-quite-108, and a year after that he would be not-quite-109. There's still a discrepancy of a year there, now matter how you slice it.

[Lissou]

One thing to keep in mind is that all of this assumes that the age listed in WaXPs is supposed to be his age right now, after the several-month period where the Order has been split up. That doesn't really make much sense, because the book covers events from the trial up to the end of the battle of AC. So even if Xykon is just barely 110 now, there's no reason to list that in this book. In fact, we know that the ages are accurate as of the book's timeframe, because Roy is listed as 28 and not 29.

The chart in 489 shows that there was almost exactly a year between the start of the comic and the end of the battle of Azure City. So even if Xykon were not-quite-78 in SoD, 30 years later he would be not-quite-108, and a year after that he would be not-quite-109. There's still a discrepancy of a year there, now matter how you slice it.

Since I received War and XPs today and checked about that, I kinda agree with you now. I did notive that the ages given where the ages at the beginning of the story, at least for the order. And if Rich is specific enough to say "28" for Roy and not "30", why wouldn't he be specific enough to say "108/109" isntead of "110"?

So, maybe he changed his mind after realising it made Xykon only 12 at the teenage scene.

Or... Maybe the scene when Xykon appears was supposed to be "34 years ago" (the one right before is) or "33 years ago" (just one year afterwards) when Rich wrote it.
Then, he changed the timeline for some reason and forgot to adapt the one line when Xykon gives his age. Sounds believable too.

That also means we don't know Xykon's birth year anymore... >.>

This being said... It's Xykon. "We're lucky he remembers "Xykon"", remember? What if he made a mistake? What if he stopped counting at 77 because it was a cool number? What if he said "I've lived for 77 years" because he decided the years prior to that were not actually "living" or whatever weird thought can cross his mind?

I mean, honestly, sometimes I have to count to remember how old I am, and I'm only in my 20s. I fail to see why Xykon couldn't just forget how old he is or make a mistae in the spur of the moment.

[darktalon]

I'd imagine that once undead humans go beyond a normal human lifespan, they'd be less hesitant to round their ages. 108/110 is a bit of a borderline case because humans can live that long (though it's uncommon) but it could be the case here.

[BRC]

Guys, there is only one feasible explination

Xykon is a time lord.

[Querzis]

30 years ago is a round number

110 years is a round number

or both.

Seriously, we are talking about 1 or 2 years difference here not 10 or 20, it can easely be explained with round rumbers. Hell, even if we dont use rounds numbers, its still possible for him to be 110 now if he was 77 years and 11 months old back then and just had his birthday yesterday.

That or Xykon stopped counting a long time ago and 110 years is just an estimate.

[mikeejimbo]

That or Xykon stopped counting a long time ago and 110 years is just an estimate.

I find this to be a likely scenario too, actually. Personally, I'd stop counting when I became an undead abomination, because after that it hardly matters.

[NerfTW]

For those that don't know, the age "110" is given in the cast listing for War and XPs. Not by Xykon himself. The 107 is decided by information he gave before he became a lich, when he stated he was 77, 30 years before the strip.

Most likely, the age is either a mistake, or Rich decided he needed to make him a bit older, since, as noted, it makes his initial zombie hoard scene a bit more believable.

[Lissou]

Also...
War and XPs starts with the Azure City New Year, which means it's been 1184 for a few months elsewhere.

So it's still possible that even though Xykon is going to turn 110 around the end of the year (I calculated his birthday to be in the end of 1074), Rich did say 110 because it's 1184 and he just did "1184-1074" without thinking about the actual birth day.

After all, the fact that the ages given are before the War doesn't change what I said in my earlier post, as it's already 1184.
Rich knew when Roy's birthday is, as he had it be celebrated while he's dead. So he knew he was still 28 and wrote it that way. Something similar might be the case with the others. Elan, for instance: Nale gives his age when kidnapping Julia, and there was no mention of a birthday since then.

So it still works, I think.