Epic Fail! (University Student Hoax -> Felony Charges)

[Grogah]

Some dude at my University forged an e-mail from the Chancellor as a hoax (http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=1141559) and now is in deep trouble for violating the Honor Code, University regulations, and State and Federal Law. Seems kind of harsh for what it actually was (a prank for Fraternity Rush), but on the other hand, it's a bit like identify theft. What do you guys think? Rake him over the coals as an example, or let him have a second chance?

[thubby]

it's not about examples or another chance. it's about consequence. he knew what he what he was doing, now he faces the consequences. threats are pointless if not backed up.

[TigerHunter]

Hey, you're in Illinois. /wave

That seems a wee bit harsh, but it was a pretty serious offense even if he didn't mean to cause any harm.

[Mr. Zook]

damn, thats pretty harsh but, he shouldnt have done it, all the same, :smalleek:

[celestialkin]

In my opinion, it's a shame the Darwin Awards are only given out if you die. Maybe there should be a category for ruining your future/life?

And all this to showoff to a bunch a random guys at a Fraternity? I hope they throw the book at him.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Why the hell did he do this in the first place?

Sounds like some religious zealot kid who's against fraternities in general (like Rusty's room-mate Dale on TV show Greek). Frats wouldn't do this, more likely the student tried to set it up like it was coming from a frat.

[Grogah]

Hey, you're in Illinois. /wave

That seems a wee bit harsh, but it was a pretty serious offense even if he didn't mean to cause any harm.

Usually, stuck in the god-forsaken lands of California at the moment, though I'll be back to the promised land come January, what part of paradise do you live in?

[Grogah]

Why the hell did he do this in the first place?

Sounds like some religious zealot kid who's against fraternities in general (like Rusty's room-mate Dale on TV show Greek). Frats wouldn't do this, more likely the student tried to set it up like it was coming from a frat.

The GDI tag for the Chancellor seems to indicate this came from a frat member.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Except frats wouldn't do this.

In party fraternities, people with enough computer skills to pull that off wouldn't be doing it just to show off they can, they're more likely to make the message funny or make fun of the dean or something like that. Also, having l337 h4x0ring skillz isn't something that's valued there so they wouldn't be showing off this way.

In nerdy academic frats there would be tons of students able to do that but the students aren't exactly show-off types high on testosterone and wouldn't do senseless pranks. They also don't place that much emphasis on being Greek, they care more about being smart, so they're the least likely to sign it GDI (whatever that means... no-one uses this term at UBC).

In elite uber-achievement oriented frats (like the ones senators and Fortune 500 CEO's probably went to), no one would do something stupid enough to ruin their future career.

[thubby]

Except frats wouldn't do this.

i beg to differ, stupid is everywhere, someone, somewhere, is going to be that dumb, we just found them.
hacking email is easy, painfully so.

[Grogah]

Except frats wouldn't do this.

In party fraternities, people with enough computer skills to pull that off wouldn't be doing it just to show off they can, they're more likely to make the message funny or make fun of the dean or something like that. Also, having l337 h4x0ring skillz isn't something that's valued there so they wouldn't be showing off this way.

In nerdy academic frats there would be tons of students able to do that but the students aren't exactly show-off types high on testosterone and wouldn't do senseless pranks. They also don't place that much emphasis on being Greek, they care more about being smart, so they're the least likely to sign it GDI (whatever that means... no-one uses this term at UBC).

In elite uber-achievement oriented frats (like the ones senators and Fortune 500 CEO's probably went to), no one would do something stupid enough to ruin their future career.

GDI -> Gosh Darned Independent, a derogatory term for a non-greek individual.

And yes, frats would do this. Jocks aren't dumb, and nerds aren't smart. The U of I is one of the top engineering schools in the world. My guess is some freshman or sophmore just thought he'd get a rise, and some cred from his brothers and so flushed his life down the drain.

[Don Julio Anejo]

GDI -> Gosh Darned Independent, a derogatory term for a non-greek individual.

And yes, frats would do this. Jocks aren't dumb, and nerds aren't smart. The U of I is one of the top engineering schools in the world. My guess is some freshman or sophmore just thought he'd get a rise, and some cred from his brothers and so flushed his life down the drain.
Oh, didn't know it's an engineering school. That explains a lot and I take my statement back.

[TigerHunter]

Usually, stuck in the god-forsaken lands of California at the moment, though I'll be back to the promised land come January, what part of paradise do you live in?
Erm.

This makes bringing up the fact that come college, I'm leaving these stupid cornfields behind and never returning slightly awkward.

[Tirian]

I imagine that he figured that he would get that second chance because his prank was "harmless", but in this day and age exposing the vulnerabilities of an organization's communications network is serious stuff. Plugging the hole before the next person decides to spoof an announcement that tomorrow's classes are called off is going to be expensive and might curtail some freedoms that students have heretofore appreciated, which is why having a community of people who agree to follow an Honor Code is hoped to be a better way.

And he hasn't thrown his life away. He'll just graduate a semester late from some other institution is all, and I guess probably kiss a few kilobucks of unrefunded tuition goodbye.

[Grogah]

Erm.

This makes bringing up the fact that come college, I'm leaving these stupid cornfields behind and never returning slightly awkward.

LOL! :) I would give almost anything to live in Chicago one day, but right now after only four months of San Francisco, I'd settle for Decatur, Springfield, or even Carbondale and Danville! California is hands down the worst place I have ever lived (and I've lived in some crappy places [Texas, Virginia, etc], they just don't compare).


I imagine that he figured that he would get that second chance because his prank was "harmless", but in this day and age exposing the vulnerabilities of an organization's communications network is serious stuff.

Well more than that, he's just committed impersonation and identity fraud, not to mention a probable DMCA violation...

[Winter_Wolf]

The question is not, is it too harsh, but rather: why should this guy be treated like a special case? He broke the law, which spells out the consequences of his actions. Ignorance is no excuse either. The guilty should not be coddled.:smallannoyed: If he's truly innocent, he shouldn't be persecuted, but sounds like they got him dead to rights.

[thubby]

And he hasn't thrown his life away. He'll just graduate a semester late from some other institution is all, and I guess probably kiss a few kilobucks of unrefunded tuition goodbye.

getting the boot from college is like getting fired after setting your place of employment ablaze. every time you try to apply, you have to get over that hurdle and hope they ignore it, which many high end ones will not do.

[Don Julio Anejo]

The question is not, is it too harsh, but rather: why should this guy be treated like a special case? He broke the law, which spells out the consequences of his actions. Ignorance is no excuse either. The guilty should not be coddled.:smallannoyed: If he's truly innocent, he shouldn't be persecuted, but sounds like they got him dead to rights.
Because it's a joke. There's a very big difference between committing identity fraud and then using someone's credit to go on a shopping spree at your friendly neighbourhood Ferrari dealership and faking an email address and sending a joke email that's probably what the real dean would have said in such an email anyway.

[Grogah]

getting the boot from college is like getting fired after setting your place of employment ablaze. every time you try to apply, you have to get over that hurdle and hope they ignore it, which many high end ones will not do.

Yeah, thats my thoughts too. Everyone is going to want to know "Why were you expelled?" and by tomorrow this will be all over the University Press circuit, every dean in America is going to hear about this by the end of the week. I see a community college degree in his future.

[celestialkin]

Yeah, thats my thoughts too. Everyone is going to want to know "Why were you expelled?" and by tomorrow this will be all over the University Press circuit, every dean in America is going to hear about this by the end of the week. I see a community college degree in his future.

Are community college degrees really that worthless?

If so, what if you do two years in a community college in order to transfer to a "real" one for your bachelor's?

I am starting to worry that I might have wasted my life.

Then again, the need for teacher's in this country is pretty high.

[RTGoodman]

Are community college degrees really that worthless?

If so, what if you do two years in a community college in order to transfer to a "real" one for your bachelor's?

I am starting to worry that I might have wasted my life.

Then again, the need for teacher's in this country is pretty high.

No, they're certainly not "useless" and no less of a "real" college than anything else. Hell, I'd probably be better off if I had Associates Degree in anything practical from my local community college than I am currently with a BA in History from a major public university, though once I get through with grad school job options will be a lot easier.

If you're wanting to do something that a degree from a community college will let you do, there's no reason NOT to go to a community college instead of trying to go to a 4-year school. And doing two years at one and transferring isn't a bad way to save some money, either, as long as you're sure all of your transfer stuff will work out right. I know there's a lot of elitism about community colleges, but I don't really understand it - I know LOT of people who have a two-year degree (or less) that make more money than folks with a BA could ever hope to make, and are happier to boot.

I think (or, at least, hope) that Grogah's point was that, after seeing this story, no major college (since the school in question is a major engineering school) is gonna let this kid in. A community college is going to be a LOT more lenient on something like that.

[PhoeKun]

Are community college degrees really that worthless?

It depends on who you talk to. Some will be very happy to point out the proven "fact" that 2 year degrees are not only cheaper than 4 year ones, but get you better, higher paying jobs.

...This is not actually true. Rather, the type of degree you want to earn varies greatly with your career goals. A Bachelor's degree will carry you farther in some jobs (it tends to become obvious which ones as you study and talk to professors/alumni/what have you). But at the same time, it will not leave you with the same skill-set as a 2 year degree, and there a large number of good jobs better suited to that skill set. It's a matter of researching what you want to do with you life, and finding what you need to know to be able to do it.

Although, bottom line, you've never "wasted" your life. There's always a chance to go back and get further education. And even for the person mentioned in the OP, while life has gotten significantly harder (always consider the possible consequences of a joke. You'll be happier), there will still be colleges willing to look past his prior acts and give him another chance. Life is, in the end, about not giving up. Try hard enough, long enough, and you'll make it.

But, gods, it's so easy to feel beaten sometimes, isn't it?

[thubby]

community college is mostly a problem for very exclusive careers. NASA, chemical engineer, brain surgeon, stuff like that.
most people don't even get a job related to their degree!

[captain_decadence]

Someone did something very similar to this at my university. It was an email sent out from the President of our uni that talked about how vandalism in the construction on campus had caused thousands of dollars in damage and delayed construction for at least a year. It scared the crud out of some people.

The Dean of Judicial Affairs found out who did it and sent him an email asking him to make an appointment with his secretary. He also gave him links to the school's honor code and code of conduct and asked that he read them and consider what his actions meant in terms of these documents.

EXCEPT THAT THE LINKS WERE A RICK ROLL! Yes, that's right, the Dean of Judicial Affairs at my University Rick Rolled a student who sent out a hoax email. I love my life.

[Grogah]

I think (or, at least, hope) that Grogah's point was that, after seeing this story, no major college (since the school in question is a major engineering school) is gonna let this kid in. A community college is going to be a LOT more lenient on something like that.

My point is mainly that since community colleges don't have admissions standards (they're open to anyone who can pay), he could get in there.

CC degrees are certainly not worthless. They're just accessible. They serve a vital function in our society.

[Don Julio Anejo]

community college is mostly a problem for very exclusive careers. NASA, chemical engineer, brain surgeon, stuff like that.
most people don't even get a job related to their degree!
Chemical engineer is okay as long as you transfer to university after a few years.

Brain surgeon is even easier - you have to get into medical school and get a medical degree first, that's what matters. Granted, you probably won't get into John Hopkins or Harvard Med with a premed major from a community college, but getting into State U shouldn't be a major problem.

Careers and community colleges are more a matter of prestige. No one is going to hire someone who went to a CC as a Fortune 500 CEO simply because it's going to look bad. They'd rather hire a much less able person who went to Harvard. No one is also going to hire a CC alumni to a major, prestigious corporate law firm - it's going to look bad.

But it's not preventing you from being a lawyer, or a neurosurgeon, just that you're not going to work at John Hopkins straight away, you'll probably have to start off at City General Hospital first.

[thubby]

Chemical engineer is okay as long as you transfer to university after a few years.

Brain surgeon is even easier - you have to get into medical school and get a medical degree first, that's what matters. Granted, you probably won't get into John Hopkins or Harvard Med with a premed major from a community college, but getting into State U shouldn't be a major problem.

the problem isn't that you can't get it, or that you are somehow less qualified, it's that you can't find work unless you're one of the top graduates in the country.
threw brain surgeon in mostly because it's so highly regarded :smalltongue:

[Don Julio Anejo]

Neurosurgeons don't specifically train to be neurosurgeons (unless, as you said, they know they're going to be top graduates in the country). They train to be regular surgeons and later specialize.

[Grogah]

Careers and community colleges are more a matter of prestige. No one is going to hire someone who went to a CC as a Fortune 500 CEO simply because it's going to look bad. They'd rather hire a much less able person who went to Harvard. No one is also going to hire a CC alumni to a major, prestigious corporate law firm - it's going to look bad.

It's more than looks though, don't discount someone who went to Harvard and did well. They've excelled, they have a high tolerance to stress, and they'd make an excellent addition to most companies. While your Alma Matter isn't the sole determiner of your capabilities, it is often indicative of it. If I meet someone from a top Engineering school, I know there is probably an 80% chance of them being someone I want. If I meet someone from an unknown school, I'll look, but I'm only expecting maybe a 5-10% chance of them being right for the job. Usually the training they've received is just inferior. Often this materializes as a lack of theoretical fundamentals, or mathematical proficiency.

That being said, there are always exceptions to the rule. The department at the research lab I am working with just picked up several grads from a little known school in Louisiana, and all of them are top notch folks.

The school you go to is generally an indicator of your level of training and proficiency. It's kind of like a name branding that helps potential employers sort you to the short list, or the long list, or sometimes to the "do not call back" list (usually reserved for local Universities with a really bad rap who turn out a lot of unqualified candidates in your area and so need to be filtered). The effect this has is that if someone on the short list wows them, and has other offers, you won't get a shot at the job if you're on the long list.

But if you get an interview, consider yourself on (nearly) even footing. Bias will exist, but you've got your chance to shine, and a chance at the job no matter what name is on your sheepskin.


but getting into State U shouldn't be a major problem

Depending on the State U. In the Midwest, Texas, and the West Coast State Universities often out perform Privates. I would say on the whole UMD, UVA, UNC, GaTech, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, UTexas, UCBoulder, UWash, UCBerkeley, UCLA, and UCSD are equivalent to, or better than Private schools in their discipline. I'm probably forgetting a few too.

[bosssmiley]

I imagine that he figured that he would get that second chance because his prank was "harmless", but in this day and age exposing the vulnerabilities of an organization's communications network is serious stuff.

The student committed a cardinal sin in any hierarchical society; he made the powers that be look foolish. They never treat such a thing lightly, especially in the hothouses of pomposity and egotism known as universities... :smallamused:

[WalkingTarget]

Hey, I got out of UIUC 5 years ago and crap like that happened occasionally back then too (I can think of at least 2 campus-wide email pranks while I was there). This wasn't that original.