View Full Version : [4e] Making Constitution Last

2008-09-02, 12:09 PM
In 4e, Constitution is extremely important at level 1 for your HP. And then as you gain levels, it becomes less and less important.

It is probably too important at level 1 -- but I also think it isn't important enough by level 10+.

So, here is an attempt to make constitution last the test of levels:
Hit Points:
At level 1, you have your constitution stat, plus your class based HP. Each level you gain you are given more HP based off of your class.

At level 4, you add 1.5x your Con instead of 1x your Con you have had since level 1.
Level 8, 2x your con
Level 14: 2.5x your con
Level 18: 3x your con
Level 24: 3.5x your con
Level 28: 4x your con

At level 1 your HP are 15+Con.
At level 28, your HP become 177+4*Con, or 4*(44.25+Con)

As you can see, the importance of Con as a percentage of your HP falls to 1/3 that it was at level 1.

Wizards go from 10+Con at level 1 up to (118+4*Con) at level 28, or (29.5+Con)*4. Once again, Con falls in importance (per point) to 1/3 as much at the high epic.

This generates a gradual reduction of the importance of con to your HP, without it becoming utterly unimportant at high levels.


A very similar alternative would be to add your con bonus to your HP at level 4, 8, 14, 18, 24, 28. In a funny way, it actually results in con being more important! Note that twice your con bonus is about equal to your con stat, minus 10. (this is accurate to within 1).

So Wizards 10+Con at level 1 up to ~(98+4*Con) at level 28, or (24.5+Con)*4.

And Fighters go 15+Con at level 1 up to (157+4*Con) = (39.25+Con)*4.

Con is 2.5 times less important by high-epic if you add your Con modifier rather than 1/2 your con stat at 4/8/14/18/24/28.


One downside is that this reduces the advantage of the "High HP" classes have over the "low HP classes". It also reduces the threat that a given monster can kill a player quickly, because it causes a bit of HP inflation.

Mando Knight
2008-09-02, 12:35 PM
I think that adding in that many level-based changes is a little ungainly for 4E. Perhaps implementing a +Con score to HP each tier change... it's not a lot, but it is about 2-3 levels worth of HP, and about 2 to 4 times as much as Toughness...

2008-09-02, 02:01 PM
*nod*, this works out to a bit more than +Con at each tier.

I chose 4/8/14/18/24/28 instead of 11/21 because, well, 4/8 and +10 on each of those are relative dead levels in 4e (look at the advancement chart).

If you do grant 1/2 con stat at each of those levels, you don't end up with con becoming massively more important than it is under core at level 1 -- it ends up with a gradual reduction in importance.

Granting full con-to-HP at 11 and 21 causes a larger swing in the relative importance of con to your HP, and loads even more power into the 11 and 21st level, while the dead levels of 4/8/14/18 and (to a lesser extent) 24/28 continue.

Using the fighter, we have as on-con based HP:
1: 15 / 1x con = 15
4: 33 / 1.5x con = 22
8: 57 / 2.0x con = 28.5
14: 93 / 2.5x con = 37.2
18: 117 / 3.0x con = 39.0
24: 153 / 3.5x con =~ 43.7
28: 177 / 4.0x con = 44.25
30: 189 / 4.0x con = 47.25

And low-water marks of:
3: 27 / 1x con = 27
7: 51 / 1.5x con = 34
13: 87 / 2.0x con = 43.5
17: 110 / 2.5x con = 44
23: 147 / 3.0x con = 49
27: 171 / 3.5x con =~ 48.9

This is an attempt to see if there are any sharp swings in the importance of con to the player's HP. The value to the right of these is the ratio of HP per multiplier of con. The higher it is, the less important your con is to your HP.

To give you an idea, under standard rules this goes from 15 at level 1, up to 189 at level 30 -- in essence, it says that your con has basically zip impact on how many HP you have by level 30.

2008-09-02, 05:34 PM
I chose 4/8/14/18/24/28 instead of 11/21 because, well, 4/8 and +10 on each of those are relative dead levels in 4e (look at the advancement chart).

Those are the levels you get +1 to two stats and one feat, I believe. I hardly consider that a "dead level".

2008-09-02, 05:42 PM
Maybe the high-hp classes having less of an advantage could be countered by bumping 15 hp to 13 hp, 12 hp to 10 hp, and 10 hp to 8 hp per level. So, -2 hp per level, at level 4 the character would be 8 hp lower, and if they get 1.5*CON to hp at level 4, 16 Constitution characters end up being unaffected, with lower CON characters taking a penalty and higher CON characters getting bonus hp.