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DiscipleofBob
2008-09-03, 11:06 AM
I had this idea and wondered how well it could be implemented.

What would be the best way to get the most damage out of a single unarmed attack as possible. Not multiple attacks, not a weapon attack, but just unarmed attack, straight up. The amount of damage is really more important than anything else.

So, any takers?

Frosty
2008-09-03, 11:09 AM
You'll probably want a way to get lots of size increases, or effective size increases, take Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike, wear a monk's belt...maybe take the Kensai class so you can increase your strength by metric tons.

Oh yeah, take the Decisive Blow ability instead of Flurry of Blows so you can deal double the damage in one attack.

Mark Hall
2008-09-03, 11:17 AM
There's the Hammer Fist feat from Races of Faerun which lets you inflict *1.5 Str Bonus damage if you only make a single strike (as if it were a two-handed weapon).

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-03, 11:22 AM
Large Unarmed Swordsage with LA bought-off using Mountain Tombstone Strike while under the effect of a modified Expansion, with INA and a Monk's Belt. Get Colossal size on your 2d10 damage, and add the benefits from Maneuvers and Stances, and you'll be good. Don't forget a Holy Bane Vicious(and +6 other enhancements) Necklace of Natural Attacks, and GMW or GMF. I'm not sure what the final damage is, but it's pretty good.

Frosty
2008-09-03, 11:24 AM
Would a Leap-attacking charger count?

Burley
2008-09-03, 11:26 AM
Nitpick @ Sstoopidtallkid: Unarmed Attacks are not Natural Attacks. They are not resolved the same way, and feats do not cross over to apply to the other.

Darrin
2008-09-03, 11:37 AM
Nitpick @ Sstoopidtallkid: Unarmed Attacks are not Natural Attacks. They are not resolved the same way, and feats do not cross over to apply to the other.

The unarmed swordsage variant uses the monk's unarmed strike ability, so yes, it would count as a natural attack.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-03, 11:38 AM
Nitpick @ Sstoopidtallkid: Unarmed Attacks are not Natural Attacks. They are not resolved the same way, and feats do not cross over to apply to the other.Unarmed Swordsage. Monk Unarmed damage. From the Monk description:
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Chronos
2008-09-03, 11:44 AM
Nitpick @ Sstoopidtallkid: Unarmed Attacks are not Natural Attacks. They are not resolved the same way, and feats do not cross over to apply to the other.A monk's unarmed attacks do count as natural attacks, if it's advantageous to do so, and an unarmed swordsage's natural attacks work like a monk's.

Artanis
2008-09-03, 11:47 AM
I imagine that a Warforged with a Battlefist might be a good place to start. You attack as though you were a size category larger, AND you get that tasty +5 and extra-damage enchantments. Throw in Expansion, and that's another size category. If you can BS the DM into letting Righteous Might stack with that ("multiple magical effects that increase size don't stack", but Expansion is Psionic), that's yet another size category.


[thinking out loud]

Add Monk's Belt, the Hammer Fist feat that Mark Hall mentioned, and Decisive Blow and you get a bunch more damage. I have no idea whether Kensai and/or Leap Attack + Shock Trooper would work, but worth looking into. Psionic Lion's Charge would help if you need the benefits of both a charge AND a full attack. Dissolving Touch/Weapon and Claw/Weapon of Energy comes to mind, and there's a couple feats in Eberron (ECS, I think) that add some damage on a charge.

Hrm, and that spell from the Draconomicon...Greater Wallop? Something like that. Might be worth looking into.

[/thinking out loud]


And no, I don't have enough knowledge to pull out much more than the SRD plus a few other things off the top of my head. I'm sure there's stuff out there that blows this out of the water, but it's the best I can come up with at the moment.

Eldariel
2008-09-03, 11:51 AM
3 levels of Fist of the Forests for 2 more dice increases (with Superior Unarmed Strike), one level of Decisive Strike-variant Monk, CL 20 Greater Mighty Wallop and you're pretty good off. I think Decisive Strike can be more damaging than most maneuvers, although I suppose Diamond Nightmare Blade would deal even more (assuming successful Concentration). Hmm, so 2d10 with four increases from Giant Size, two increases from Fist of the Forests, five from Greater Mighty Wallop. Since virtual increases don't stack, I think that's all we can cram in there as Greater Mighty Wallop is the largest virtual increase possible. That would get us core damage die of 2d10 in Colossal+++++++. Since we have Giant Size cast on us, our Str is +32. With base 22, +5 book, +5 levels, +6 enhancement, +32 giant size, that's 70 (I suppose Template Stacking could go higher). Diamond Nightmare Blade quadruples the damage so we have 2d10 with 11 size increases + 45 Str (Hammer Fist for *1.5) + 20 Power Attack x 4 (Diamond Nightmare Blade). Since I don't want to count the size increases myself, I can't give you the actual result, but it's "big".

EDIT: The weapon damage would be 12d8 at Colossal. Doing increases from there would probably be 16d8 > 20d8 > 28d8 > 36d8 > 44d8 > 60d8 > 76d8. That averages at 342. So the average damage would be 407*4 = 1628. That's without magic properties or such, mind you. It could be much higher.

ocato
2008-09-03, 11:57 AM
Huh, I was thinking Monk/Cleric (Law and Strength)/Enlightened Fist. Superior Unarmed Strike, Improved Natural Weapon, Monk Belt, cleric buffs (divine power, righteous might, greater magic weapon, Enlarge Person, and all the little ones that stack) and maybe if you can fit it in a dip in swordsage (or preferably just a feat to keep casting up) so you can drop an Irresistable Mountain Hammer (+4d6) while delivering the 'touch' attack of a Harm spell. Grab Law Devotion to add +5 (if 10th level) or +7 (if 17th level) to your attack bonus and power attack it off, use up all your stunning fists to add various 1d6 bonuses (fist of iron, fiery fist).

That's with like, 6-7 feats listed, so probably a higher level human build, but you're looking at pretty good punch.

Burley
2008-09-03, 12:01 PM
Thanks for all those corrections. I have a few DMs who need I now need to have a few... conversations... with.

Mando Knight
2008-09-03, 12:01 PM
It's simple! You grab a Nintendo Wii, boot up Brawl, play as Capt. Falcon, and press "B"!:smalltongue:

You probably would want either a human or a massively Strength-oriented race, yeah...

Person_Man
2008-09-03, 12:05 PM
Try this:

Shifter Monk 3/Psychic Warrior 4/Fist of the Forest 3/Warshaper 1

Take Monastic Training and Tashalatora feats so that your Psychic Warrior levels stack with your Monk levels for unarmed damage.

You get a 4 or 5 level bump out of a Monk's Belt or Superior Unarmed Strike (though they don't stack). Let's go with the Monk's Belt.

Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) increases your unarmed Monk damage by two steps up the Monk scale. Since you're effectively a 12th level Monk, this increases your unarmed damage from 2d6 to 2d10. If you're in a higher level game with more Psychic Warrior or Monk levels, you can skip this.

Improved Natural Attack increases your effective size for one natural weapon size by one step, from 2d10 to 4d8.

One level of Warshaper increases your effective size of all natural weapons by one step, from 4d8 to 6d8.

Use the augmented version of the Expansion power to increase your size by two steps, increasing your unarmed damage from 6d8 to 8d8 to 12d8. If you're playing a mid level game and don't have enough Psychic Warrior levels to use the augmented version, consider picking up the Overchannel and/or Practiced Manifester feats.

Take Scorpion's Grasp from Sandstorm. Now whenever you hit an enemy, you get a free Grapple check. If you succeed, you deal Unarmed Strike damage (again) and can finish out your full attack with opposed Grapple checks (which are easier then normal To-Hit rolls), dealing unarmed strike damage every time you win.

If you can't be a Shifter, take Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis) instead, which also lets you qualify for Warshaper.


This is just one method, there are many others. Here's the list of stuff (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=662842). Scroll down to Increasing Monk Damage. Combine anything that gives you high unarmed damage with a high Grapple mod. You could probably get it even higher by ECL 20. But IMO, 12d8 is probably the limit of what a reasonable DM would allow.

playswithfire
2008-09-03, 12:39 PM
Level 20, very non optimal

Unarmed Swordsage 15/Master of 9 5

Items:
Monk's Belt
Necklace of +5 Collision Unarmed Strike

Feats:
Shadow Blade

get unarmed strike to colossal (get greater mighty wallop cast by wizard, whatever)

So 12d8 +10 base (+5 enhancement +5 collision)
swift action for Inferno? Blade for 3d6+20 more
use Feral Death Blow and it makes it's save +20d6
Be in a shadow hand stance + DEX
Have insightful strike(Tiger Claw) + WIS
know maneuvers from 9 disciplines + 9

12d8+23d6+39+STR+DEX+WIS = 173+STR+DEX+WIS, unless I missed something

Human Paragon 3
2008-09-03, 01:18 PM
You could also throw in level 10 of war mind to add 10d6 to the attack. If you start as a monk with decisive strike you can double your damage, as somebody above stated already. The combat form feats will also give you a temporary +6 to hit and +6 to damage boost. Or, you could go with Psionic Fist feats for an extra 4d6, or go with unavoidable strike to make the entire thing a touch attack. So, you could do what somebody said above, but doubled and with 10d6 thrown on top, as a touch attack with virtually no chance of missing. Go invisible if you need them to be flat footed, too.

Arros Winhadren
2008-09-03, 01:21 PM
Let's not forget Smiting. I realize that kind of narrows the range of targets, but maybe you could convince your DM to homebrew a Smite that hits "lame, non-captain people". I could swear I heard of a build that could smite for ~700 damage, so just apply it to your PAUNCH.

Victor Thorian
2008-09-03, 01:26 PM
{Scrubbed}
It had to be done.

ocato
2008-09-03, 01:39 PM
It had to be done.

I submit that no, no it did not have to be done.

Chronos
2008-09-03, 02:10 PM
Be in a shadow hand stance + DEXDon't forget to make that stance Assassin's Stance, for an extra 2d6 if you can qualify for Sneak Attack.

monty
2008-09-03, 05:46 PM
I submit that no, no it did not have to be done.

You're lying.

fractic
2008-09-03, 05:48 PM
It had to be done.

Someone has been playing to much super smash bros.

Inhuman Bot
2008-09-03, 06:01 PM
{Scrubbed}

It had to be done.

that is terrable.... {Maybe if it's terrible, you could refrain from quoting/reposting it. :smallannoyed:}