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Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-03, 12:53 PM
I'm the optimizer of my group, so they come to me for advice on stuff like this, but I'm stumped. What PrCs are good for a Warmage? We're not hugely optimized, my Malkonvoker and the Duskblade are the best, but I can't think of one other than a dip in Wild Mage or taking Incantrix. He's playing a LG Illumian, and rolled fairly well for stats, but I'm drawing a blank on Evocation PrCs. Help?

Frosty
2008-09-03, 12:55 PM
Why not take Rainbow Servant? Gaining spontaneous access to all cleric spells is a good thing.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-03, 12:58 PM
Wis was his dump stat. Not horribly low, but 10 or so, IIRC.

Frosty
2008-09-03, 01:00 PM
Does Rainbow Servant require you to actually use Wis to cast those spells? I think it just adds all cleric spells to your list of spells KNOWN, so you can cast them normally.

Eldariel
2008-09-03, 01:00 PM
Incantatrix is of course the most powerful option. That said, it's too powerful for 99% of the games. I personally like Sand Shaper (Sandstorm) to expand the spell options by quite a bit. Recaster is also pretty sweet, but Changeling-only. Wild Mage is kinda meh - rolling poor for CL when it counts sucks.

AmberVael
2008-09-03, 01:01 PM
Wisdom isn't actually required for use of Divine spells with the Rainbow Servant PrC. It should be a fine option.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-03, 01:03 PM
Didn't think of Sand Shaper. Thanks. The problem is, though, he doesn't really want more options, he wants to deal more dice. He wants better Evocations, and since I have the actual caster stuff held down, it doesn't matter much that he's 0-dimensional. I'll mention Sand Shaper though, that may work well.

The_Snark
2008-09-03, 01:06 PM
Rainbow Servant doesn't need Wisdom at all; however, most DM's I've used have used the table's spellcasting progression over the text's, since the class does give some fairly powerful benefits and they ought to cost something. It might be worth it by level 10, but until then a character who takes it will be feeling those lost levels.

Eldariel's suggestions are all good too. Incanatrix is far less broken in the hands of a non-optimizer (not to mention with a Charisma-based spellcaster).

AmberVael
2008-09-03, 01:12 PM
Another suggestion that might be interesting for an evoker/warmage type is Frostmage from the Frostburn book. It's not a terribly amazing class, but the natural armor ability, along with the power to pierce through cold resistance/immunity with any of his cold spells might be enticing.

Frosty
2008-09-03, 01:29 PM
Go with Incantatrix then and pile on the metamagic if you want more damage.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-03, 01:30 PM
Another suggestion that might be interesting for an evoker/warmage type is Frostmage from the Frostburn book. It's not a terribly amazing class, but the natural armor ability, along with the power to pierce through cold resistance/immunity with any of his cold spells might be enticing.That works, as does Incantrix. I'll mention both to him. He snagged Eschew Materials, so even the Ice or Snow components won't be a problem. Thankee.

Burley
2008-09-03, 01:55 PM
Why don't you just change the Rogue around a bit? Take away a few of the big perks and add in casting progression. As a Warmage, he's probably throwing Orbs and Rays around a lot. Give him some Sneak Attack Dice.

Or, if he don't like that: There's the Eldritch Theurge, which I think lets you mix spells and invocations. I never really looked at it much, though...

Frosty
2008-09-03, 01:59 PM
How about using feats to get a Stance to give you Sneak attack, and then entering Arcane Trickster?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-03, 02:04 PM
Nowhere near enough skills, though we could use a trapmonkey besides captured Kobolds(we're an all-good group and managed to justify this in-character:smallbiggrin:). I may be able to get him to go for a skillmonkey class that advances casting for the good of the group. Any other suggestions for those?

TeeEl
2008-09-03, 02:04 PM
Spellwarp Sniper from Complete Scoundrel gives you 2d6 pseudo-sneak attack dice and a few other decent perks. It doesn't explicitly say it counts as sneak attack for meeting prerequisites, but you may be able to get your DM to let you do so.

Frosty
2008-09-03, 02:05 PM
Unseen Seer? He'll want the feat Practiced Spellcaster though as well.

overduegalaxy
2008-09-03, 02:08 PM
He could always grab a level of fighter and then go into Spellsword.

Burley
2008-09-03, 02:30 PM
Is spellsword an actual 3.5 class/PrC?

Frosty
2008-09-03, 02:34 PM
Yes, but I don't recommend it for the Warmage.

Person_Man
2008-09-03, 02:38 PM
Stormcaster + Born of Three Thunders feat + Quick Recovery feat

Cast any area of effect spell with an Energy descriptor.
Born of Three Thunders turns it into 50% sonic, 50% electricity damage.
Stormcaster forces any enemy damaged by it to Save or be Stunned.
Born of Three Thunders forces any enemy damage by it to Save or be Stunned.
Born of Three Thunders forces any enemy that is Stunned by your spell to Save or be knocked Prone.
Born of Three Thunders would normally force you to be Dazed for 1 round as a side effect of using it.
Quick Recovery allows you to use a Move action to Save against any Stun or Daze effect, including effects that did not initially allow a Save. Thus you can usually take another Standard action the round after using your cool combo.

Stormcaster is in Stormwrack.
Born of Three Thunders is in Complete Arcane.
Quick Recovery is in Lords of Madness.

Although this doesn't add any damage, it basically screws any enemy that isn't immune to Stun. If you want increased damage, take Energy Gestalt from Complete Mage. If you damage an enemy with a cold spell on one round and a sonic spell on the next round, they take 50% more damage from the sonic spell (which you can also Empower or whatnot with a rod or metamagic). There's also a spell out there that causes vulnerability to energy out there, though I forget the source.

The HUGE weakness of any blaster build is anything with Evasion and/or a high Reflex Save. A Wizard would just back it up with some Summon spells and Solid Fog. But a Warmage is pretty boned unless they take a PrC that expands your spell list. So I strongly suggest taking the Draconic feats, Forgotten Realms racial feats, Sandshaper, Dracolexi (Races of the Dragon), or something similar.

The_Snark
2008-09-03, 02:41 PM
Unseen Seer would require a bunch of skills he doesn't have as class skills too (like Hide, Search and Spot). There aren't really any skill monkey/spellcaster prestige classes that don't require you to already be fairly skilled.

Frosty
2008-09-03, 02:43 PM
Then take a level of Beguiler or Factotum or Bard or something.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-03, 02:47 PM
The HUGE weakness of any blaster build is anything with Evasion and/or a high Reflex Save. A Wizard would just back it up with some Summon spells and Solid Fog. But a Warmage is pretty boned unless they take a PrC that expands your spell list. So I strongly suggest taking the Draconic feats, Forgotten Realms racial feats, Sandshaper, Dracolexi (Races of the Dragon), or something similar.So far he's using Magic Missile and Orbs against those. At later levels, when we face more enemies, he can take the heavy-armors with the Duskblade and I'll grapple the Rogues. I'm not sure dipping is an option, as losing a caster level when already behind due to being Spontaneous isn't usually worth it.

Frosty
2008-09-03, 02:48 PM
Just take incantatrix. Really. Depending on the cheese, he can Chaos Shuffle his Sudden feats into more useful metamagic feats.

ocato
2008-09-03, 02:48 PM
The HUGE weakness of any blaster build is anything with Evasion and/or a high Reflex Save.

I think this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html) taught us a valuable lesson about that issue.

Well, a lesson we already knew, but it stands!

AstralFire
2008-09-03, 04:02 PM
Anything that gains spells known without dropping more than two caster levels is good. Exalted Arcanist from BoED gives you some fun options with Consecrate/Purify spells.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-03, 04:14 PM
That might work, he is LG(though nowhere near exalted), so I could see it.

The_Snark
2008-09-03, 04:46 PM
LG warmage? Actually, that reminds me of the Holy Scourge class in Complete Mage. It's not really very good, but it sounds like it might fit the player, and in an unoptimized campaign it'll do all right. It's focused around killing evil creatures with damaging spells, essentially; you lose one caster level, but get bonus (holy) damage against evil creatures, a smite evil-esque ability that works with spells, and the ability to overcome evil spell resistance more easily.

mabriss lethe
2008-09-03, 05:21 PM
If it weren't for that Lawful Good thing, I'd say pick up a level of Binder, Take the Improved Binding feat and go into Anima Mage. That could be fun.