A Clash of Titans

[Mushroom Ninja]

So much of our time is taken up by optimizing and pitting powerful classes against each other that we've ignored one of the most interesting questions of all time: Which is more powerful? A Truenamer or a Warrior?

[Tam_OConnor]

That depends. What level? :smallsmile:

[Mushroom Ninja]

How about at 5th, 10th, and 20th?

[arguskos]

5th level: Truenamer. His Truespeak DC's are still low enough to be made.
10th level: I have no idea, toss-up?
20th level: Warrior (ubercharger?)

Just some guesses.

-argus

[Mushroom Ninja]

Hmm... Sounds reasonable. Now, the real question is: Can a lv20 commoner beat a Lv20 truenamer?

[arguskos]

Lv. 20 Commoner has the same amount of feats as the Warrior, so, yes. (ubercharger Commoners ftw?) :smalltongue:

-argus

[Graymayre]

ok:

A rotten bannana peel that has been lieing in a salty marsh for 2 weeks

Vs.

A 20th level Truenamer.

[Mushroom Ninja]

ok:

A rotten bannana peel that has been lieing in a salty marsh for 2 weeks

Vs.

A 20th level Truenamer.

What's its CR? :smalltongue:

[Rei_Jin]

...

Truenamers aren't THAT bad, you know. And if a Warrior or Commoner can be an Uber-charger, then so can a Truenamer. Nothing stopping him from doing it if the Commoner can.

And DC 60 skill checks aren't that hard to come up with at high level. I promise you that. The Truenamer can be played quite effectively, but it requires a lot more fine tuning than some other classes that you can just pick up and win the game with without using too much effort. Sure, it's not equivilent with a wizard, but honestly, what is?

[FoE]

A rotten banana peel that has been lying in a salty marsh for 2 weeks

Vs.

A 20th level Truenamer.

Ooooh ... tough call.

[arguskos]

I vote Banana Peel. It's got the powerful "Slippy Peel" ability, which we all know is a deal-breaker at times.

-argus

[Mushroom Ninja]

...

Truenamers aren't THAT bad, you know. And if a Warrior or Commoner can be an Uber-charger, then so can a Truenamer. Nothing stopping him from doing it if the Commoner can.

And DC 60 skill checks aren't that hard to come up with at high level. I promise you that. The Truenamer can be played quite effectively, but it requires a lot more fine tuning than some other classes that you can just pick up and win the game with without using too much effort. Sure, it's not equivilent with a wizard, but honestly, what is?

But to get a DC 60 check, you have to blow most of your WBL on items which Kind of sucks

[Rei_Jin]

Do you? Do you really? Because that's news to me...


Let's assume a standard power campaign. A truespeaker starts with 14 Intelligence, adds +5 to it from level increases, and ends up with a base 19 Intelligence. That's +4 to Truespeak

You have maximum ranks in Truespeak. That's +23 to Truespeak, +27 in total so far

You pick up Skill Focus: Truespeak for +3. We're up to 30 without spending any cash.

Now, you will start spending cash.

Vestment of the Silver Tongue grants +10 enhancement bonus to Truespeak. +40 total now.

Amulet of Truespeak +10. +50 now



I've only spent 25,000gp

If I want to, I can buy a Headband of intellect +6 for 36,000gp. That adds another 3 to the check.

And if I really want to go all out, I can buy a Tome of Intelligence +5, for a total Intelligence of 30 with the Headband on. That adds another +3.

That's Truespeak 56 before I roll, without any Prestige classes (like Exemplar) or spells to add to it (cast by another member of the party)

It's not that hard, really.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Do you? Do you really? Because that's news to me...


Let's assume a standard power campaign. A truespeaker starts with 14 Intelligence, adds +5 to it from level increases, and ends up with a base 19 Intelligence. That's +4 to Truespeak

You have maximum ranks in Truespeak. That's +23 to Truespeak, +27 in total so far

You pick up Skill Focus: Truespeak for +3. We're up to 30 without spending any cash.

Now, you will start spending cash.

Vestment of the Silver Tongue grants +10 enhancement bonus to Truespeak. +40 total now.

Amulet of Truespeak +10. +50 now



I've only spent 25,000gp

If I want to, I can buy a Headband of intellect +6 for 36,000gp. That adds another 3 to the check.

And if I really want to go all out, I can buy a Tome of Intelligence +5, for a total Intelligence of 30 with the Headband on. That adds another +3.

That's Truespeak 56 before I roll, without any Prestige classes (like Exemplar) or spells to add to it (cast by another member of the party)

It's not that hard, really.

Not bad, not bad at all! It appears that I have been just proven wrong.

[The_Snark]

Level 20* truenamers are being underestimated here—they have Gate available as an utterance. No XP cost; not even a particularly difficult Truespeak check**. That alone gives them the ability to abuse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/genie.htm#efreeti) the (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelSolar) game (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/formian.htm#queen) in ways a warrior can't dream (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm) of doing.

*Truenamers of level 19 or below do not. Quite the capstone.
**So far as I can remember; the book is really bad about telling you what the DCs for the Lexicon of the Perfected Map are. Does anyone know what page that's on?

[Rei_Jin]

That's because they omitted it from the book. It's in the Errata HERE (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/TomeMagic_Errata03282006.zip) and reads as follows:


To speak an area’s truename (using the Lexicon of the
Perfected Map), you must succeed on a Truespeak check
with a DC equal to 25 + 5 per level of the utterance. If
the area is a magical location, increase the DC by an
additional 5.