Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine: Emperor's Teeth!

[SAMAS]

Holy SH*T! (http://www.vgblogger.com/?p=3731#comment-24282)

About the only thing wrong with this is the bolter. Otherwise...

[Rogue 7]

There's a 40K MMO? Since When?! And a Shooter would kick seven kinds of ass.

[Hunter Noventa]

That is pretty frakkin awesome. And it's probably a Bolt Pistol, considering a Bolter is normally a two-handed weapon.

And the MMO has been in development for a while now, but not much has been said about it other than that it's being worked on.

[holywhippet]

There's a 40K MMO? Since When?! And a Shooter would kick seven kinds of ass.

The MMO is still in development.

[warty goblin]

If there is not a PC system the unclean shall suffer my wrath. Doesn't look like the deepest thing ever and could quite possibly use more blood, but hey, Space Marine, chainsword, what more can a guy ask for?

[Kane]

After all, we all know how hard it is to get the Adeptus Mechanicus to bless 360s.

I think the guns should actually do something, but then, I'm a Tau player. I think the enemies should be a bit more intelligent, and maybe they should give you either A, occasional command of a squad, when available, or B, a jetpack. (Veteran sergeants or assault marines wield BP+Chainsword, right?) And it had better have a plot. A good one.

Also, am I the only one who's disappointed with the 'go to this area, do this fight, go to the next area, do that fight' type gameplay we saw?

[warty goblin]

After all, we all know how hard it is to get the Adeptus Mechanicus to bless 360s.

I think the guns should actually do something, but then, I'm a Tau player. I think the enemies should be a bit more intelligent, and maybe they should give you either A, occasional command of a squad, when available, or B, a jetpack. (Veteran sergeants or assault marines wield BP+Chainsword, right?) And it had better have a plot. A good one.

Also, am I the only one who's disappointed with the 'go to this area, do this fight, go to the next area, do that fight' type gameplay we saw?

I agree, I confess my mental fantasy WH40K shooter is a bit different.
1) First person, with melee ala Dark Messiah, only with Chainswords. Space Marines should be fast and coordinated after all.
2) Guns that blow unarmored people into gibs, and preferably rather large pieces out of the landscape as well.
3) Open battlefield with objectives granted from on high- "Go here and plant a bomb", how you get there is up to you.

Now granted Space Marine could have a lot of those things, from the demo it sounded like that was the opening level, or at least close to the start of the game, in which case a bit of linearity is forgivable.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Hum... I think I'm going to summon Yahtzee's argument, and say that while a close-up cinematic kill is VERY COOL, have it done FOR EVERY SINGLE KILL makes it boring halfway trough the introduction.

The bolter gun looks like a pansy gun, seriously. "Stun them"? A BOLTGUN THAT STUNS?! What's next, the Meltagun gives you a nice tan?

Why do they feel the need to keep the models in 1 piece? If I am attacking with a chainsword, I expect to see parts flying around.

I loved when he smashed the guardman's head with his foot.

The close-up "overkill" combat system looks... boring and useless. He's on the ground! Why punching him when you can open his troath with your sword/bolter? If you telling me "because it became personnal", well a Space Marine is a professional before anything else. He does not take stupid risk for personal reason :smallamused:

Except for this, I love the art. I love the feeling. I love the blood. The Space Marine himself is super cool.

[Talkkno]

The close-up "overkill" combat system looks... boring and useless. He's on the ground! Why punching him when you can open his troath with your sword/bolter? If you telling me "because it became personnal", well a Space Marine is a professional before anything else. He does not take stupid risk for personal reason :smallamused:


Well chapters apprently do, as im Crimson Tears, the Crimson Tears sent a company, that after their initail mission, they went off in their chase of the Soul Drinkers chapter which made Lord General Xariuses(sp?) much harder then it would have been and probarly was a tipping point that had the planet fall to chaos anyways in where they didn't follow orders.

[Holammer]

Graphics are great and so, but holy crap, the gameplay looks like a steaming turd! One that AVGN might have a colourful description of. They're really going overboard with these cut scenes and it seems to totally break the flow of combat. I like violence as much as the next guy but when he does a flashy finishing move on every little two-bit opponent it's just stupid.
Being shot at by 3 guys? Np, just gonna eviscerate this guy in a shocking and unnecessary manner. But hey, it's apparently early on so they might fix glaring gameplay issues.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Graphics are great and so, but holy crap, the gameplay looks like a steaming turd! One that AVGN might have a colourful description of. They're really going overboard with these cut scenes and it seems to totally break the flow of combat. I like violence as much as the next guy but when he does a flashy finishing move on every little two-bit opponent it's just stupid.
Being shot at by 3 guys? Np, just gonna eviscerate this guy in a shocking and unnecessary manner. But hey, it's apparently early on so they might fix glaring gameplay issues.

These kind of shot is to attract blood-thirsty gamers, which will increase their company share price, so they'll actually have the money to buy the share.

[Kizara]

I seriously hope you can turn off the stupid mini-cutscenes. That kind of thing should ethier be a) a rare special move or b) togglable.

Right now, you are invulnerable as you do it and it totally takes you out of your "orchastration of combat". So its unrealistic, makes for bad gameplay and is more then a little silly. Good call.

Also, the repetition of stupid buzzwords and self-praise pissed me off in the demostration.



I'm fine with how they empathsized melee combat, it IS consistant with the setting and space marines in general; but ranged combat shouldn't be frivilous and only mildly annoying. Furthermore, I hope that was on "demo mode easy" cause it looks like he could just stand there and get attacked and only be minorly inconvienced.
The setting and general graphics seemed to capture the setting and were generally quite good, but I'm not going to care much about that if the game is **** to play.

[Inhuman Bot]

The link didn't work, for me.

So it's about the WH 40k MMO?

[SmartAlec]

It's about Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine, a third-person shooter/close combat game being made by the Dawn of War guys.

I know, I'd not heard of it either.

[Holammer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrqJHqIN4a0

^
File linked in the article.

[Bryn]

Funny, I saw this on Warseer just this morning. Agreed with everyone who says the bolter and other guns are too weak, and the gameplay may be too forgiving; also in that the mini-cutscenes would get repetitive fast. They have done a stellar job of portraying the Imperial city, though, and the Thunderhawks and Valkyries all look very well-portrayed indeed.

It would be great if, once, just once, we had a game featuring, say, the Inquisition, eh? :smallamused: Though for this type of gameplay, Space Marines are certainly much more appropriate

[SmartAlec]

Anyone know the Chapter the Marine is from? I don't recognise the colours or the insignia.

[warty goblin]

Anyone know the Chapter the Marine is from? I don't recognise the colours or the insignia.

Looks sort of...blue so I'd go with Ultramarines, or some non-codex chapter.

[Oslecamo]

BOLTERS DON'T WORK THAT WAY!

Seriously, only stuning? Chaos space marine, I can admit it, but traitous guardsmen only being stuned by bolt shots? What were those guys thinking?

I know that close combat is very important in Warhammer 40k, but ranged combat also is.

I guess the Tau won't make an apearance in this game.

[Victor Thorian]

Funny, I saw this on Warseer just this morning. Agreed with everyone who says the bolter and other guns are too weak, and the gameplay may be too forgiving; also in that the mini-cutscenes would get repetitive fast. They have done a stellar job of portraying the Imperial city, though, and the Thunderhawks and Valkyries all look very well-portrayed indeed.

It would be great if, once, just once, we had a game featuring, say, the Inquisition, eh? :smallamused: Though for this type of gameplay, Space Marines are certainly much more appropriate

This. Master Axis speaks true. Gotta love the Art.

[SmartAlec]

traitous guardsmen only being stuned by bolt shots? What were those guys thinking?

Something along the lines of 'I would like this game to be more about close combat', I think.

I can see where they're coming from. After all, we've already had a 40K shooter in the form of Fire Warrior. Time for something different.

As to the lethality of a boltgun, although they're practically self-propelled grenade launchers in the fiction, in-game they still have a 1 in 3 chance of missing, a 1 in 3 chance of failing to cause crippling damage and, against anyone wearing carapace armour (Blood Pact, Stormtroopers etc), a 1 in 2 chance of failing to get through the armour.

EDIT: Fixed. I knew what I was trying to say, but somehow it came out garbled...

[hamishspence]

In game, chance of a S4 bolter wounding (killing for 1 wound guys) a T3 guardsman is 2/3, not 1/3. 1/3 chance of killing a Plague Marine.

[Oslecamo]

As to the lethality of a boltgun, although they're practically self-propelled grenade launchers in the fiction, in-game they still have a 1 in 3 chance of missing, a 1 in 3 chance of failing to cause crippling damage and, against anyone wearing carapace armour (Blood Pact, Stormtroopers etc), a 1 in 2 chance of failing to get through the armour.


They also have the chance of sending an ork trukk/chimera/rhino/sentinel go boom, so I wouldn't call them so weak.

[ufo]

Wow. What did they do to the bolter?

From what I can see in the video, this seems pretty ridiculous in my opinion. It's too cinematic. It looks more like a video than a game.

I know that it's early in development, but the animations seem very stiff. It feels as if they made Warhammer 40k into any generic console action game.

To be honest, I hope this will get no where. I feel that it will give newcomers to the universe a very wrong impression of how it works. But as mentioned, they did a good job on the art. You can really see how big a Space Marine is compared to a human - and the city, my gawds!

[SurlySeraph]

I'm not entirely sure that this is legitimate, but I really hope that it is. Weak bolter, too cinematic, yadda yadda, but it's still awesome.

[Renegade Paladin]

The only content of the link is: "Sorry guys, we had to pull this down this morning." I don't suppose anyone has an alternate link?

[SmartAlec]

They also have the chance of sending an ork trukk/chimera/rhino/sentinel go boom, so I wouldn't call them so weak.

And so does a regular close combat attack from a Space Marine, so the whole focus on close combat doesn't seem that weird.

[Oslecamo]

And so does a regular close combat attack from a Space Marine, so the whole focus on close combat doesn't seem that weird.

Actually no. The close combat weapon has AP-, so it gets a -1 in the damage table, that with combined with scoring only glancing hits at best, means it can't make the vehicle go boom.

[Dragor]

Obviously still being in Alpha, we can't judge this game on its merits already. But they've stated their intentions for the bolter and I'm kinda angry. Not because it betrays the fluff (I've never been too concerned about the fluff, as long as they don't do a merry dance on it and go crazy), but the way they've slimmed down the gameplay.

In Gears of War, for example, it was fun and satisfying to melee a lot, but it was also sensible to fight at range. For any Space Marine, we can guess the same applies, especially when you've got a bolter. I think they should've at least tried to mix it up a little, rather than keeping it on one type of gamestyle.

The city looks great, the Marine looks great. It's early days yet, but on the whole I'm actually pretty optimistic.

[Jimp]

Other posts have explained the reasons why I don't have much faith in this game.
Oh well.

[Bryn]

Actually no. The close combat weapon has AP-, so it gets a -1 in the damage table, that with combined with scoring only glancing hits at best, means it can't make the vehicle go boom.

I'm pretty sure close combat attacks work outside the AP system, because there are only two AP values for close combat weapons: "No AP" and "Ignores everything". I suppose it is possible to count power weapons as AP1 and normal close combat attacks as AP-, but I'm fairly sure that would be a house rule, and that normally close combat attacks would have no additional modifiers on the damage table.

If I'm wrong in this, please correct me.

In any case, though, the second point is right: a Marine fist/bolter can not destroy a vehicle as of 5th Edition, because (unless they're AP1), glancing hits can immobilise at best. Even in 4th edition, you'd have to hit the weak rear armour of many tanks, or be shooting at something fragile like a Sentinel or Rhino, to even have a chance of glancing.
--
The thing that concerned me with the animations was the sudden stops that the Marine came to: at several points he would stand bolt upright in an idle position that doesn't really fit in a warzone. Otherwise, the animations seemed alright to me, although the chain-sword stabs didn't show much sign of piercing armour or flesh when they were done in the finishing moves.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Gak! The video is gone!

Wish I'd seen it. . . :smallfrown:

[Holammer]

Gak! The video is gone!

Wish I'd seen it. . . :smallfrown:

Too bad, hope they pulled it down quickly due to negative feedback about the ridiculous focus on melee and those annoying cut scene kills.

[YPU]

I'm pretty sure close combat attacks work outside the AP system, because there are only two AP values for close combat weapons: "No AP" and "Ignores everything". I suppose it is possible to count power weapons as AP1 and normal close combat attacks as AP-, but I'm fairly sure that would be a house rule, and that normally close combat attacks would have no additional modifiers on the damage table.

If I'm wrong in this, please correct me.



In 5 th, hm, you know im not sure how to read it, the rules say that damaging a vehicle works the same way as shooting thus being strength + 1d6 as it mentions in brackets. You know I don’t think that the AP rules apply at all here, power weapons don’t have AP1, but don’t have AP – either. Note that the “AP – weapons“ rule says and I quote: weapons that are shown as “AP-“ suffer….” Now I cant find no place that shows melee weapons as AP- so I think that doesn’t count here.
Thus a power fist marine, strength 8 +1d6 (from 9 to 14) and always counting against rear armor even. So unless your fighting a landraider or necro’s you will have a glancing hit on a 2 and a full hit on anything higher, so powerfist damn well will bring down a vehicle.

then a normal asault weapon marine? strength 4 +1d6 you need a 6, and that would seem logical, tough we have all seen movies of sombody taking on a tank with a katana, but thats on the web peeps, doenst work in warhammer.

[LordVader]

...
It's...it's gone?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
*sobs*

[warty goblin]

You know, I watched it again today just before it was pulled, and it was really kinda growing on me. The little in-game cutscene kills really never bothered me that much, and after a few watching the animations started looking a lot better, there's a real power to the blocks and attacks for example. Still doesn't look like the deepest thing ever, and ideally they would do something different with the bolter (like say limit the ammo, but make it pretty much an insta-kill against anything without some major armor), but other than that it looked pretty good.

Also, as I said before, the combat just didn't quite feel lethal enough to me for a Space Marine game- hitting unarmored people with chainswords should cause limbs to fly, not stun them momentarily. The combat against the Chaos Marines looked pretty good though.

[LordVader]

I never saw it...GAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!! :smalltongue:

Still, they are probably still in basic development stage and need a LOT more time.

And anyways, in terms of lethality, WoW weapons are just as capable of slicing the limbs off of humans, as are weapons in any other RPG, and yet most of the time they don't so I don't really see that as an issue.

[warty goblin]

I never saw it...GAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!! :smalltongue:

Still, they are probably still in basic development stage and need a LOT more time.

And anyways, in terms of lethality, WoW weapons are just as capable of slicing the limbs off of humans, as are weapons in any other RPG, and yet most of the time they don't so I don't really see that as an issue.

And if it was an RPG I wouldn't mind. I after all love Dawn of War, even though Assault Marines don't gib Gretchen and Imperial Guard with every swing of their blades, that's just the way the genre works.

This however is a game about playing a single incrediebly badass Space Marine- in the few minutes of gameplay he kills about four Chaos Marines in melee. There's no reason for the combat not to be sufficiently lethal that you can one-shot, or very nearly one-shot weenie guys. Look at what Gears of War (the best non WH40K WH40K game ever) manages to do with Wretches. The little bastards are quite lethal, and still a threat, but can be killed with just a few shots from any of the guns, and melee killed quite quickly.

[LordVader]

Wait, I thought this was the 40k MMO?

[warty goblin]

Wait, I thought this was the 40k MMO?

No, entirely new beasty. A third person action game called Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine, (you can just tell the title people worked all night on that one...) where you run around with a chainsword and the world's least powerful bolt pistol and crush people's heads under your power armored boot.

[LordVader]

Oh, cool.

Well, I'll buy it anyways. :smallbiggrin:

[SurlySeraph]

The video was up on Youtube for a few hours, but when I went to the link it said it had been taken down by THQ's request.

[SolkaTruesilver]

I think they would win more point with everyone if they called it with a fancier name than "space marine".

Warhammer 40,000: Adeptus Astarte

[warty goblin]

Ahem. To whom it may concern, they've still got the video up over at Rock Paper Shotgun.

Now curbstomp those heretics like you mean it!

[DariusAPB]

Bolters can still kill open topped vehicles juuuuust fine thankyouverymuch mr +1 (or is it +2?) to damage table.

[hamishspence]

And glancing hits can kill a vehicle given time: they kept the rule that says With enough weapon destroyed/immobilized results, a duplicate wrecks the vehicle.

Rhino:
Fire 1: Weapon Destroyed
Fire 2: Immobilized
Fire 3: weapon Destroyed/Immobilized converts to Vehicle Wrecked.

[chiasaur11]

I think they would win more point with everyone if they called it with a fancier name than "space marine".

Warhammer 40,000: Adeptus Astarte

You're right. That would be cooler.

[Justyn]

The video is still up on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbjbbzOrCIg).

[DariusAPB]

Also if said space marine for whatever reason has the tank buster special ability, he can easily penetrate the rhino APC(which is basically a real world M113). You seem to be playing a space marine vet in the game so please consider that if it can penetrate an APC... it can mess up a guardsman, more than just stun.