Im callin' you out, Valve

[Stormthorn]

((Im putting this in media because it isnt about a game, its about a company that makes games, and any games that come up (which they will) is a side effect of that.))

Valve, im calling you out on your unorigional ideas. They say that nothing is really new but you gotta try harder than you are. Look at their new game, Left for Dead thats coming up. Look at the characters in the spoiler below.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/46/L4DP.JPG

Doesnt that girl look familier? Know why? Take a look at this screenshot of a little game called Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction.
http://www2.fileplanet.com/images/140000/143155ss_sm2.jpg

Yea, thats what i thought.
But its not only new stuff. Take a look at portal.
Do you think AperatureSci was the first to make those super-buttons?

http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/6/66/Portal_superbutton.jpg/180px-Portal_superbutton.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/Muphin_Mann/button.jpg


Those two look more than a little alike, even if they arnt a perfect match (the anime is Excel Saga).



And they also steal characters! http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/eganrac1239/sniper.jpg
Thats the TF:2 austrailian sniper. Now, meet a real Aussie sniper.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/weapons-australian/1rar-vc-sniper-rifle.jpg

In that one they even both have watches!

Gordon Freeman himself http://www.techspot.com/gallery/data/504/medium/Gordon_Freeman.jpg
is no more than a Johnny Depp from the future!
YA RLY.
Before he worked at Black Mesa Johnny Freeman had a lucrative demonology career.

http://www.boomerangshop.com/dvdcover/imageweb4/TheNinthGate2000414_f.jpg


Im on to your game Valve. And i have just this to say: Why arnt i in a game yet?

[hanzo66]

I highly doubt Valve went all out to take stuff like that.


Zoey (the girl) was apparently modeled after the person Chell (protagonist of Portal) was modeled after. Doesn't look all that much like Jennifer Mui.

Button-switches that require something rested on them aren't exactly an original concept. It's a good idea for a Puzzle game like Portal.

The Sniper was supposed to look very very Aussie, hat and kukri included. Chances are they probably did use pictures like that for inspiration, but what of it? It looks awesome.

That movie came out (1999) after Half-Life (1998), so another point off.

[SurlySeraph]

...
Is this supposed to be a parody?

[Anteros]

I think he must have wrote this as a joke? I don't get it.

[Myshlaevsky]

This is a joke:smalltongue:.

[Sholos]

It has to be a joke. Otherwise I just lost a lot of respect for the OP. I mean, even if the Left for Dead thing were true, it's still such a minor, minor thing to pick on the game for, especially considering everything else the game is doing (not doing bad, doing well). The rest? Just .... no.

[Tom_Violence]

I too suspect this to be a joke. Perhaps a mocking of some other rampant debate currently taking place in some distant corner of the internet?

[Closet_Skeleton]

The Sniper was supposed to look very very Aussie, hat and kukri included. Chances are they probably did use pictures like that for inspiration, but what of it? It looks awesome.

Kukri aren't australian and I can't see one in either picture. If the Team Fortress 2 sniper has a kukri it isn't because he's an Australian stereotype.


That movie came out (1999) after Half-Life (1998), so another point off.

Not when you're looking at Half-Life 2 art it isn't.

[bosssmiley]

Shorter! and funnier!

Go read the Mass Wild Guessing page of tv tropes. That is how universal syncretism/"Valve ripped off xxx" works.

[Phase]

Word to the wise, sarcasm doesn't travel well over the internet. If you aren't sarcastic, please state so, so that you may be challenged on these accusations.

[Dode]

*cracks knuckles*

its time to get the coffee brewin because i got a lot of e-fightin to do with this poster from gaia online

[Stormthorn]

Go read the Mass Wild Guessing page of tv tropes. That is how universal syncretism/"Valve ripped off xxx" works.

Those Gordon is really ______ bits are getting out of hand on those pages.

And this isnt serious but it isnt really a joke.

My real point is somehting like this: Either no one can be accused of ripping stuff off, or everyone can, because very little is actualy an origional concept.

I chose to illustrate this with Valve because they are so much in the spotlight recently and i already had my final connection (Johnny Freeman) made before i decided to write this.
Honostly, i love Valve.


And i do have a gaia account, but i dont like that site. This avatar is here because OOTS style cant convey what i want in an avatar (and neither can this, but it comes closer).

[Sholos]

Okay, but you probably should have posted your point instead of just "blasting" Valve. I mean, there's no reason to think that anyone here will know what the heck you're doing. I sure didn't.

[warty goblin]

My real point is somehting like this: Either no one can be accused of ripping stuff off, or everyone can, because very little is actualy an origional concept.



This is one piece of faux logic that annoys me no end whenever it crops up, sp prepare for a lot more boolean algebra and set theory than one usually runs across in a day.

Essentially the argument is that the set R of people who rip other people off is the empty set (o or the set of all media, call it m. Thus to disprove this all one needs is to demonstrate that R is non empty (there exists at least one piece of media that rips another off), but is a proper subset of all media R < m, so there exists at least one thing in m that is not in R (a piece of media that doesn't rip others off).

OK, first off a piece of media that doesn't rip others off. How 'bout the Epic of Gilgamesh, arguably the first piece of media? Now we need something that rips something else off, I'm gonna pick Halo 3 as a clear rip off of Halo 2. Q.E.D.

[Rogue 7]

Well, I got that it was a joke but.... it....wasn't....funny. Sorry.:smallfrown:

[Crispy Dave]

no the charicters in left for dead are very cliche you have the black guy, the old guy, the white tough guy and the hot chick

[Poison_Fish]

I give it 7/10.

[Stormthorn]

OK, first off a piece of media that doesn't rip others off. How 'bout the Epic of Gilgamesh, arguably the first piece of media? Now we need something that rips something else off, I'm gonna pick Halo 3 as a clear rip off of Halo 2. Q.E.D.

The circuity of the logic astounds me.

How about this, somewhere the very first piece of media does exist that is origional. My anthroplogy professor thinks its a type of handaxe that appeared over a million years ago but even those are symbolic of animals teeth. So is it really origional? It cant be both stolen and not-stolen.

And your logic also requires sequals, adaptaions, copies, and parodies to be considered rip-offs when they might not be. In the case of Halo 2 and 3, permission clearly existed for the third to be made (being created by the same company) so nothing was stolen.
Seems to me that if we go by your logic that as soon as two of somehting exist, both have "ripped off" the other and niether are valid for origional work.


Well, I got that it was a joke but.... it....wasn't....funny. Sorry.


Thats ok. If a single other person who reads it either agrees or finds it funny than its existance is justified.
The difficulty in my situation if that if i target a beloved company like Valve im going to get a bunch of fanboy hate (preparing reletivistic cannon). If i target an obscure company no one will know what im talking about. Raise your hand if your familiar with the game developer Genki....

[warty goblin]

The circuity of the logic astounds me.

How about this, somewhere the very first piece of media does exist that is origional. My anthroplogy professor thinks its a type of handaxe that appeared over a million years ago but even those are symbolic of animals teeth. So is it really origional? It cant be both stolen and not-stolen.

And your logic also requires sequals, adaptaions, copies, and parodies to be considered rip-offs when they might not be. In the case of Halo 2 and 3, permission clearly existed for the third to be made (being created by the same company) so nothing was stolen.
Seems to me that if we go by your logic that as soon as two of somehting exist, both have "ripped off" the other and niether are valid for origional work.


My logic is the correct interpretation of what you said, so if you don't like it, it's not my problem. Halo 2 was a bad example I admit, so moving on.

A proof of original media The number zero has arrisen independantly in places of utmost remoteness something like two or three times in history I believe. Once or possibly twice in Eurasia, and once in pre-conquest South America. Now there is nothing in the basic concept of a written number system that demands a zero, since plenty of them existed without it, it's appearances were far enough apart in time and space to eliminate the possibility of someone stealing it, and there's nothing in nature to suggest the idea of zero being a distinct entity, as opposed to simply nothing. Hence an original idea.

Now for derivitive media:
Insurrection: Campaigns for Starcraft. Uses the same game engine, animations, units, and was made without permission. There was a law suit about it violating copyright and terms of use as well. By any definition that is remotely sensible a rip off.

Original and non original media exist, hence the set R of rip off media does not equal either the set of all media or the empty set. Hence your hypothesis is incorrect. You actually concede this yourself as well.


because very little is actualy an origional concept.

Q.E.D.

[Stormthorn]

Original and non original media exist, hence the set R of rip off media does not equal either the set of all media or the empty set. Hence your hypothesis is incorrect. You actually concede this yourself as well.

Alright you convinced me. I will no longer express the opinion that nothing is stolen from someone else (my personal beliefs were that nothing is new but nothing is stolen either). My origional post can now be considered a personal attack on Valve for what they have copied, stolen, or drawn inspiration from.

As it is now a rant it does not need to be found funny or agreed with, because rants are self-serving pieces. This is assumed to be effecting all previous events of of now and if you did find it funny, please stop immediatly.

Now, to my victor i must add this:
You like latin it seems, so i leave you with this idea.
quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur
I did not make attempts to prove my origional assumption, thus you didnt need to try and prove me wrong.

[warty goblin]

No offense meant. Your post expressed an opinion with which I disagreed, and provided some evidence. I made a counter arguement which, admittedly, was somewhat more... symbolic than is usual, probably because I'm taking a rather difficult abstract algebra course and tend to think that way right now. Again, I apologize if I offended, that was not my purpose, which was merely to express my opinion and point out what I considered to be flaws in your argument (and your OP plus second post do make an argument), which is, if anything, a sign of respect.

[Stormthorn]

and your OP plus second post do make an argument

Not my intention. My post was just an unusual way of stating the same thing as my second post. It wasnt written as an argument to validate it.

[averagejoe]

It seems to me the real problem is the internet. See, the thing is that there's so much media out there that chances are something you do is going to resemble something that's been done, just by sheer volume of stuff out there. Sometimes this is intentional as, for example, when Tolkien decides to use mythological elements in his work. Sometimes it isn't (though these can be harder to figure out.) The point is that the internet has brought our ability to process, share, and search for information to such unprecedented levels that we're more likely to see anomalous patterns than ever before.

Anyways, even if they did get inspiration for Freeman from Depp, why is this even bad? Originality does not equal quality.

[Holammer]

The jig is up Valve!
Some cool observations, especially the first one. This my friends is how conspiracy theories start. Its very own primordial soup :smallwink:

[Victor Thorian]

/ZOMG

Valve stole Zerg from Tyranids, add that too!

/ZOMG

[mathieumg]

Limbo of the Lost is an original game.

/sarcasm (to make it obvious :smallyuk:)

[Stormthorn]

Some cool observations, especially the first one. This my friends is how conspiracy theories start. Its very own primordial soup

Yes! Im a conspiracy proginator! I should get an Internets for this!

[Albub]

Technically anyone you know, or even just see walking down the street could be Johnny Depp wearing makeup and a costume.

[ufo]

I totally disagree with this rant. I agree that the girl from L4D and Mercenaries look the same, but the other ones aren't very good examples. I've never heard the buttons from Portal being mentioned as especially super, and that design has been used plenty of times before - it's pretty much standardized.

Next, I believe there's a very good reason the Aussie sniper from TF2 resembles an Aussie sniper. TF2 is a parody on everything and the logic behind it.

I don't think Johnny and GOrdon look alike in those picturea at all.

[Mr._Blinky]

Not when you're looking at Half-Life 2 art it isn't.
Except of course that said Half-Life 2 art is based off of the Half-Life 1 art.

[Graymayre]

well, the Left4Dead shots you have are out of date. The character models have been updated and changed since then, particularly "Generic Black Guy" who now has a completely new look.

[tribble]

thing is, a lot of these "stolen" things are archetypes. archetypes=/= ripoffs. Big Red Buttons, Badass Australian (Dundee anyone?), hot chick with flapper hair blowing out brains, all archetypes. and as for the other one, thats simply a cool hairdo/beard. my history teacher has one.:smallcool:

[ericgrau]

I can see the first one, but the rest are a bit of a stretch.