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arguskos
2008-09-04, 09:00 AM
So, I recently managed to start a new campaign, and I have an issue: we're missing some party roles. Like, some fairly major roles. I'm considering adding a NPC to help them balance out the party, but I'm not sure.

The Party (currently level 1):
4 members.

1. Elven Archery Ranger. This character has no interest in spellcasting, and besides, can't cast for awhile. So far, she's been doing the most damage of the whole party (she has an elven double bow for story reasons).

2. Elven Druid. Now, normally, this would cover most issues I would have, but the player wants to enter the Blighter PrC, which means he'll lose cure spells in 5 levels. This is an issue. (NOTE: The player voluntarily gave up wild shape, he doesn't like the ability.)

3. Human Duskblade. The only melee character, the duskblade sorta just charges and whacks stuff. He's fine, though he lacks versatility.

4. Halfling Rogue. Skill/hide monkey. Is bending the Hide rules. Beyond that, no big deal here.


As you can all probably tell, healing and arcane casting is at a premium in this party, leading me to consider adding an archivist/wizard NPC to the party somehow, just to help them with healing, etc. We've had one session so far, and already, their proclivity for charging in and asking questions later has led the Druid to do nothing but prepare CLW's (I gave them a wand of CLW last session, 11 charges left, I hope them make them frikkin' last...)

I'm just curious: should I add a NPC ally to the party for them? Or should I just let them go, and hope that when the druid loses cures they'll survive?

-argus

AstralFire
2008-09-04, 09:08 AM
If he doesn't like the Wild Shape ability for flavor reasons, I'd look for something else he could get to benefit, like the Druidic Avenger from UA. If he doesn't like it because frankly Wild Shape is a pain in the arse for simplicity, then the Aspect of Nature from UA or the Wild Shape variant from PHB II should work great.

I've run parties with no healing before, it's really not that much of an issue TBH unless you really want to throw multiple combats at them day after day. Not having healing access can add a fun new strategic challenge and allows for attrition tactics just a little bit better; just be willing to wing/fudge it for a little bit 'til you get the hang of how differently it works. And it makes the presence of healing when it does occur, all the more magical, special, and so very not "vending machine of life."

arguskos
2008-09-04, 09:29 AM
Well, the other issue I have w/ no healing is that the party doesn't seem to get it. It's not THAT big a deal for me, if they realized how dangerous life is for them right now. I run sandbox games, with full potential for TPK's if the party is stupid and doesn't think before the charge in screaming (something they have yet to realize), and I'm concerned about them not having access to at least in combat cure's.

I'm open to playing w/o party access to cure spells, but then I feel like I might need better rules for regaining hit points w/o them (Heal checks just don't cut it :smallannoyed:)...

-argus

Proven_Paradox
2008-09-04, 09:39 AM
Sometimes, TPKs are a necessary learning tool. Going in without healing is one thing. Going in without healing and being kind of stupid about it is another. If you can swing it, throw them into a combat that will result in them almost but not quite dying so that they can maybe get the hint. If they don't figure it out then, don't feel too bad about a TPK.

AKA_Bait
2008-09-04, 09:43 AM
Well, the other issue I have w/ no healing is that the party doesn't seem to get it. It's not THAT big a deal for me, if they realized how dangerous life is for them right now. I run sandbox games, with full potential for TPK's if the party is stupid and doesn't think before the charge in screaming (something they have yet to realize), and I'm concerned about them not having access to at least in combat cure's.

I'm open to playing w/o party access to cure spells, but then I feel like I might need better rules for regaining hit points w/o them (Heal checks just don't cut it :smallannoyed:)...

-argus

Well, you might want to toss an NPC healer in there, but if you do I'd avoid very powerful classes like a Wizard Archivist, if only to avoid temptation of having the NPC do more than just heal. I'd suggest a hireling Adept, Healer or Cleric.

black dragoon
2008-09-04, 09:46 AM
Agreed. If the NPC is there don't make him the ace in the hole make him the guy with some connections and the teams heal monkey.

Epinephrine
2008-09-04, 09:46 AM
Potions on many badguys should make it doable, if they are careful; it makes sense that many enemies who engage in combats might carry some healing items anyway, especially if they don't have healers around. Belt of healing would be a good investment for everyone, brooch of stabilizations perhaps as well, and one player may want an Amulet of Emergency Healing - to be able to use an immediate action to throw a heal at someone dropping below -9 HP.

If they don't learn to minimise damage by planning and being cautious, they will likely die. Remember how deadly ambushes are, and perhaps encourage them all to spare some points in hide and move silently or good spot/listen, or at least use the rogue to scout ahead well - a surprise round and losing initiative can make even a fair fight into a slaughter, but if they can generally avoid that they may do ok.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-04, 09:49 AM
People are really way, way, way too stuck on the "cleric-wizard-fighter-rogue" mentality. We've never had cleric PCs (outside of a Dark Sun game, and he was an evil Silt cleric with no healing spells of any kind), and very rarely have wizards or other full arcane casters, and we've been doing fine since 3.0 came out.

A party with a druid, duskblade, ranger, and rogue has plenty of everything. There's two healers, even.

Epinephrine
2008-09-04, 09:51 AM
A party with a druid, duskblade, ranger, and rogue has plenty of everything. There's two healers, even.

You did read that the druid is switching to blighter? No more healing.

BardicDuelist
2008-09-04, 09:51 AM
If you feel you need an NPC, make it a Healer.

If you don't really want an NPC (or as an alternate option that I personally prefer), give the druid a magic item that grants him Spontaneous Healing as a bonus feat.

Finally, the party chose their classes and tactics. If they play stupid, let them die. It's a bit harsh, but they will learn not to play stupid, even in a beer and pretzels game. If they start treating everywhere (even outdoors) like its ToH, then maybe you should tone it down a bit. :smallwink:

Mastikator
2008-09-04, 09:55 AM
Wouldn't it be a lot easier if you simply had the encounters they met not be like, several times per day, and instead, once a week or two?

If you TPK them then you're punishing them for not playing optimized for battle, and if you throw them an NPC for survival then you're telling them they are not good enough for not optimizing for battle.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-04, 09:58 AM
You did read that the druid is switching to blighter? No more healing.

No, they'll still have one healer. What's the issue?

AstralFire
2008-09-04, 10:03 AM
Well, the other issue I have w/ no healing is that the party doesn't seem to get it. It's not THAT big a deal for me, if they realized how dangerous life is for them right now. I run sandbox games, with full potential for TPK's if the party is stupid and doesn't think before the charge in screaming (something they have yet to realize), and I'm concerned about them not having access to at least in combat cure's.

I'm open to playing w/o party access to cure spells, but then I feel like I might need better rules for regaining hit points w/o them (Heal checks just don't cut it :smallannoyed:)...

-argus

That's where DM fudgery the first few encounters comes in until you learn to make those slightly less lethal or they learn to compensate.

Starbuck_II
2008-09-04, 10:12 AM
No, they'll still have one healer. What's the issue?

You have a point hand the Ranger a Wand of CLW and they can handle out of combat healing.
At there level having 2 or 3 CLW wands is a steal.

BobVosh
2008-09-04, 10:24 AM
You have a point hand the Ranger a Wand of CLW and they can handle out of combat healing.
At there level having 2 or 3 CLW wands is a steal.

Vigor is better. 11 Hp every time, same cost. At best you get 11 from the CLW with a standard of 5.5 hp.


A Player's Guide to Healing (And, why you will be Just Fine without a Cleric to heal)

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=900334

You have a rogue (UMD healer), druid (Scrolls+wands if he is unable/unwilling to prep heals), and ranger...which has some heals but I'm not too familiar with their spells.

As for arcane spells the duskblade can cover a decent amount of that with scrolls etc, as they count for wizard/sorcerer when using them.

Then the rogue can UMD it too.

arguskos
2008-09-04, 10:25 AM
Thanks for the advice folks.


Well, you might want to toss an NPC healer in there, but if you do I'd avoid very powerful classes like a Wizard Archivist, if only to avoid temptation of having the NPC do more than just heal. I'd suggest a hireling Adept, Healer or Cleric.
I hear that. Wizard/Archivist was just a ballpark on what they may or may not need. If I go with a NPC, it will probably be an Adept or Healer, for stated reasons.


If you don't really want an NPC (or as an alternate option that I personally prefer), give the druid a magic item that grants him Spontaneous Healing as a bonus feat.

Finally, the party chose their classes and tactics. If they play stupid, let them die. It's a bit harsh, but they will learn not to play stupid, even in a beer and pretzels game. If they start treating everywhere (even outdoors) like its ToH, then maybe you should tone it down a bit.
I like that magic item idea. I may use that, though, does that work with blighter casting? If not... it's a waste of WBL.

Also, ToH is awesome, why would I want to tone it down? :smallwink: /silliness


Wouldn't it be a lot easier if you simply had the encounters they met not be like, several times per day, and instead, once a week or two?

If you TPK them then you're punishing them for not playing optimized for battle, and if you throw them an NPC for survival then you're telling them they are not good enough for not optimizing for battle.
See, the thing is that I told them up front this was going to be a dangerous campaign, and that healing was probably going to be needed. They disregarded me anyways. So, do I now rewrite the feel of the world to keep them alive, or do I just show them I was being serious (without being cruel)?


That's where DM fudgery the first few encounters comes in until you learn to make those slightly less lethal or they learn to compensate.
Fair enough. I'll probably have to do this anyway, since they seem to lack the finer points of strategy (like, having one).

Thanks for the advice folks, it's appreciated.

EDIT:

Vigor is better. 11 Hp every time, same cost. At best you get 11 from the CLW with a standard of 5.5 hp.


A Player's Guide to Healing (And, why you will be Just Fine without a Cleric to heal)

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=900334

You have a rogue (UMD healer), druid (Scrolls+wands if he is unable/unwilling to prep heals), and ranger...which has some heals but I'm not too familiar with their spells.

As for arcane spells the duskblade can cover a decent amount of that with scrolls etc, as they count for wizard/sorcerer when using them.

Then the rogue can UMD it too.
1. I don't use Spell Compendium in this game, so Vigor is out. The game is core only, with a few minor exceptions (PHB2 for the duskblade, and that's only for his spells, nothing else; and blighter for that player only [backstory reasons]), so it's cures or bust.

2. That's a handy link, thanks. I'll need to keep that on hand.

3. That's true, I did forget about the rogue's potential for UMD (though I don't know if he's using it, I'll have to ask).

4. Uh, no, I'm pretty sure duskblades don't count as sor/wiz for scrolls. They use scrolls like anyone other caster: their spell list or UMD. If you have something that says otherwise though, I'd love to see it (it's not in the PHB2, from what I see).

-argus

Mastikator
2008-09-04, 10:58 AM
See, the thing is that I told them up front this was going to be a dangerous campaign, and that healing was probably going to be needed. They disregarded me anyways. So, do I now rewrite the feel of the world to keep them alive, or do I just show them I was being serious (without being cruel)?Oh.
Well, then one thing I suggest you could do is throw one encounter at then that defeats them, but leaves them alive. Or almost TPKs them. Or you could just out right tell them that you won't fudge in their favor and if they get themselves killed it will be on them.
Just something to scare them into trying to avoid lethal conflicts.

I still think it's bad to punish them to make their characters focused on battle if that's not what they want. It's kinda iffy to say that hack'n'slash is the only right way to play the game.
And you can play in a dangerous world without minmaxed players, in fact it makes the feel of it even stronger, at least in my experience.

arguskos
2008-09-04, 11:02 AM
Oh.
Well, then one thing I suggest you could do is throw one encounter at then that defeats them, but leaves them alive. Or almost TPKs them. Or you could just out right tell them that you won't fudge in their favor and if they get themselves killed it will be on them.
Just something to scare them into trying to avoid lethal conflicts.

I still think it's bad to punish them to make their characters focused on battle if that's not what they want. It's kinda iffy to say that hack'n'slash is the only right way to play the game.
And you can play in a dangerous world without minmaxed players, in fact it makes the feel of it even stronger, at least in my experience.
Oh, for sure! I agree totally that it makes the world feel more realistic. The thing is, it's not really min/maxing to ask them to not be stupid and to try and get some method of healing. I mean, yes, I can technically rely on the anti-casting ranger and the UMD rogue, but it seems like that's a longshot. I wasn't really saying they should min/max (in fact, I dislike optimizing for the sake of it; I prefer they play people, not builds), I was just asking if a NPC healer is a fair thought.

Thanks though, I may try the whole, "overpowering, but not everyone dies" moment, and see if they catch the message.

-argus

Blackfang108
2008-09-04, 11:16 AM
...
3. Human Duskblade. The only melee character, the duskblade sorta just charges and whacks stuff. He's fine, though he lacks versatility.
...
-argus

If he's not versatile, he's playing it wrong.

I've had two Duskblades. The only thing my Epic one can't do on his own is heal, and the non epic one was a force to be reckoned with in his own right.

He may be overwhelmed by the amount of options he has in combat.

Remind him of his spells, and encourage him to take at least one touch spell per level. Also, remind him that he can wear light armor without Arcane Spell Failure and, depending on his level, shields and medium armor as well.

remind him of the arcane channeling ability, and the SR bonus when he hits something.

Also, if you go to Epic levels, recommend Improved Combat Casting. It helps. A LOT.

Remember, the Duskblade obtains obscene amounts of spells per level, and their attack spells are powerful. Two of the Duskblade's 5th level spells (Chain Lightining and Disentegrate) are lvl 6 Sor/Wiz, and Polar Ray is a level 8 Sor/Wiz spell.

Have him look at his spell list and remind him to use it. He'll never be an outstanding Straight Melee, but he can be a great Damage dealer when he channels touch of Fatigue or Vampiric touch through his weapon.

Mastikator
2008-09-04, 11:17 AM
Oh, and another thing to think about is that if you add an NPC healer to their party then it might be like as if you're holding their hand, which might ruin the feel of the world. So you'll have to make the NPC very weak, or make the NPC a mercenary who wants to be paid for healing.

Good luck with the campaign.:smallsmile:

arguskos
2008-09-04, 11:21 AM
If he's not versatile, he's playing it wrong.

I've had two Duskblades. The only thing my Epic one can't do on his own is heal, and the non epic one was a force to be reckoned with in his own right.

He may be overwhelmed by the amount of options he has in combat.

Remind him of his spells, and encourage him to take at least one touch spell per level. Also, remind him that he can wear light armor without Arcane Spell Failure and, depending on his level, shields and medium armor as well.

remind him of the arcane channeling ability, and the SR bonus when he hits something.

Also, if you go to Epic levels, recommend Improved Combat Casting. It helps. A LOT.
Dude... we're level one. He hits stuff. And casts Kelgore's Fire Bolt every now and then (but not much).

Also, I'll keep that advice in mind for him. Let's hope he makes it that long! :smallwink:


Oh, and another thing to think about is that if you add an NPC healer to their party then it might be like as if you're holding their hand, which might ruin the feel of the world. So you'll have to make the NPC very weak, or make the NPC a mercenary who wants to be paid for healing.

Good luck with the campaign.
Who said it was going to be a free NPC? :smallwink:

Also, thanks man, I'm hoping this one goes well. I'm stoked, and they seem to be too.

-argus

Blackfang108
2008-09-04, 11:31 AM
Dude... we're level one. He hits stuff. And casts Kelgore's Fire Bolt every now and then (but not much).
...
-argus

At level one, the cantrips are invaluable.

Also, what is his INT? He should (theoretically) have a high enough INT bonus to know at least three of the level 0 spells. which he can cast three times a day, and level one spells at least 2 times (depending on INT score).

That's one more spell per day than a wizard of level one with the same INT can cast, and the Duskblade isn't useless in combat after his last spell is cast.

I don't see how the Arcane casting is suffering.

EDIT: Also, if he isn't using a Greataxe or Halberd, Recommend them. The Halberd's nice because of the S/P type. (My favored weapon in the Epic Campaign. Go Improved Critical!)
If he does Use a slashing or piercing weapon, I recommend he at least picks up a club or Mace, in the event he comes across something resistant to the damage type.

Edit 2: just ran the numbers. In terms of total spells, A duskblade will have 10 more than a wizard with the same INT modifier at level 20.

With a modifier of 0:
Wizard: 40(4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4)
Duskblade: 50 (6,10,10,10,8,6)
Sorceror: 60 (6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6)

How are Wizards overpowered again? Oh, right, Metamagic doesn't increase casting time for them.

(Another thing for him to keep in mind when choosing feats, assuming he survives long enough; Metamagic, except for Arcane Thesis(I heartily recommend, +2 to CL for spell, lowers spell slot for Metamagicked by 1) increases the casting time of a spontaneous spell)

Tallis
2008-09-04, 11:32 AM
You told them what the world was like and they chose not to have a healer. That's their choice to live or die by. I would let them know that there's the option to hire a healer, but leave it up to them if they want to do it. If it was my game I'd drop the hint about it in game rather than flat out telling them, but that's just me. I like to have my players figure things out on their own.

Starbuck_II
2008-09-04, 12:38 PM
Vigor is better. 11 Hp every time, same cost. At best you get 11 from the CLW with a standard of 5.5 hp.


Then the rogue can UMD it too.

Even if they had access ton Vigor; Ranger can't cast it, Blighter can't either, and while Rogue could UMD (he isn't made it I bet).

Dr Bwaa
2008-09-04, 12:39 PM
I agree with the people in the "let them deal with it" camp. I've just recently started up a game on mythweavers with a party of four: Fighter, Fighter, Rogue, Bard. I told them they could do whatever they wanted and I'd figure it out, which I will. They've got a little bit of healing from the bard (if he takes healing spells), and otherwise they're just going to have to be smart about it. I'll let them kill themselves if they're stupid about it, but if they are playing it smart or at least RPing their characters' intelligence scores, I won't punish them unduly for that. Having the low-wis/int guy go charging in ahead of the group and forcing the clever one to come up with a brilliant plan to save his ass on the spot is just fun RPing. Having the whole party, however, go charging headlong into a battle they've been warned "is a suicide mission" will probably be a suicide mission.

If you are in the abovementioned campaign, quit reading now.

Example:

They (again, Fighter, Fighter, Rogue, Bard) were all asleep in a fort on the border between one of the human countries and the last Goblin country, when they smelled smoke and began to hear screams. Looking outside, they see the fort beginning to go up in flames (fort has stone walls, but most everything inside is wooden as there really wan't much stone to be had around here when it was built.) After some exploration/helping/looting (depending on who you are), they discover that the fort's soldiers are on the rooftops in the east and west, shooting arrows and trying to put out fires, while the citizens are fleeing out the south gate. They then discover that there's a gang of goblins right outside the gate, knocking them out and hauling them away: slavers. So after a group of horses, freed from the burning stable, goes charging through the small south gate (really just a door) and surprises the gobbos, the party follows and gets the remaining citizenry, as many soldiers as they could find, and so forth, to come with them (as the soldiers can't see what's actually going on from where they were). Now they have joined battle with about 50 goblins, trying to escape and protect all the commoners. Their assets: besides the party (level 1), they have several actual soldiers, and a few commoners who have grabbed weapons of some kind, and the element of surprise thanks to the horses. This is an overpowering encounter, but they won't die, because they prepared themselves as best they could for it and didn't really have any other choice. What exactly does happen to them depends on their actions over the next few rounds.

Crow
2008-09-04, 12:46 PM
If you've got 4 players already, just roll with it and see how it works first. We hardly ever had a cleric in 3.5. If it doesn't work, then you can consider it.

You'd be surprised how your players may compensate.

Koalita
2008-09-04, 12:52 PM
If you want to give them some healing potential, give them 1 (or more) healing belts. That should suffice to cover their healing needs for a loooong way. If you are generous enough to give them 1 per PC, with some potions, CLW/Vigor wands, and some scrolls, there should be no need for a healing bot.

ghost_warlock
2008-09-04, 01:22 PM
Why don't you ask the PCs what kind of support character they want? Let them help build it - think of it as a collaborative construction.

You may never really need worry about the NPC overshadowing the PCs if you simply allow the PCs to take turns dictating the NPCs actions in combat rather than running the character yourself. The strengths of the NPC become the player's strengths/ideas.

This would allow your players to branch out a bit. Maybe one of them has never played the sort of character/class your NPC is going to be. Many players tend to specialize in one sort of character (the guy who always plays a halfling rogue) and this would give them a taste of something different, if only for a few turns during every combat. Who knows, maybe one of the specialists will find something to love about the character and decide to play something like it next time rather than a reprise of his/her usual role.

Also, if one of the PCs should happen to meet an unhappy end, the player can assume semi-permanent control of the NPC (and already be somewhat familiar with the NPCs capabilities). This might last until his/her character get rez'd, the player makes a new character, or maybe the player will simply take over playing the NPC as a PC (which would allow the group to come up with a new filler/collaborative NPC).

arguskos
2008-09-04, 04:00 PM
At level one, the cantrips are invaluable.

Also, what is his INT? He should (theoretically) have a high enough INT bonus to know at least three of the level 0 spells. which he can cast three times a day, and level one spells at least 2 times (depending on INT score).

That's one more spell per day than a wizard of level one with the same INT can cast, and the Duskblade isn't useless in combat after his last spell is cast.

I don't see how the Arcane casting is suffering.

EDIT: Also, if he isn't using a Greataxe or Halberd, Recommend them. The Halberd's nice because of the S/P type. (My favored weapon in the Epic Campaign. Go Improved Critical!)
If he does Use a slashing or piercing weapon, I recommend he at least picks up a club or Mace, in the event he comes across something resistant to the damage type.

Edit 2: just ran the numbers. In terms of total spells, A duskblade will have 10 more than a wizard with the same INT modifier at level 20.

With a modifier of 0:
Wizard: 40(4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4)
Duskblade: 50 (6,10,10,10,8,6)
Sorceror: 60 (6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6)

How are Wizards overpowered again? Oh, right, Metamagic doesn't increase casting time for them.

(Another thing for him to keep in mind when choosing feats, assuming he survives long enough; Metamagic, except for Arcane Thesis(I heartily recommend, +2 to CL for spell, lowers spell slot for Metamagicked by 1) increases the casting time of a spontaneous spell)
His INT is not amazing. He has the arcane talent cantrips 6/day, and only 3 1st levels per day (he took Fire Bolt and Blade of Blood). The thing with duskblades is that their list really sorta lacks that many problem solver spells, so if they get in deep, they might not have an answer. Of course, they ARE PC's, so that means they'll figure something out (or die). :smallwink:

Also, he really likes his dwarven waraxe and shield. REALLY likes them. To the point that he asked me if he can make it into a throwing weapon so he doesn't need anything else ever. *shrug* Iunno why, but hey, he digs it, so awesome.


You told them what the world was like and they chose not to have a healer. That's their choice to live or die by. I would let them know that there's the option to hire a healer, but leave it up to them if they want to do it. If it was my game I'd drop the hint about it in game rather than flat out telling them, but that's just me. I like to have my players figure things out on their own.
I'll probably do that. I dislike railroading my PC's over much (I feel a little here and there is useful to get them going some days), so telling them about the NPC healer their favorite barkeep (a character they love immensely, actually; he's a dwarf hill giant with a thing for art) heard about might just be a good call.


They (again, Fighter, Fighter, Rogue, Bard) were all asleep in a fort on the border between one of the human countries and the last Goblin country, when they smelled smoke and began to hear screams. Looking outside, they see the fort beginning to go up in flames (fort has stone walls, but most everything inside is wooden as there really wan't much stone to be had around here when it was built.) After some exploration/helping/looting (depending on who you are), they discover that the fort's soldiers are on the rooftops in the east and west, shooting arrows and trying to put out fires, while the citizens are fleeing out the south gate. They then discover that there's a gang of goblins right outside the gate, knocking them out and hauling them away: slavers. So after a group of horses, freed from the burning stable, goes charging through the small south gate (really just a door) and surprises the gobbos, the party follows and gets the remaining citizenry, as many soldiers as they could find, and so forth, to come with them (as the soldiers can't see what's actually going on from where they were). Now they have joined battle with about 50 goblins, trying to escape and protect all the commoners. Their assets: besides the party (level 1), they have several actual soldiers, and a few commoners who have grabbed weapons of some kind, and the element of surprise thanks to the horses. This is an overpowering encounter, but they won't die, because they prepared themselves as best they could for it and didn't really have any other choice. What exactly does happen to them depends on their actions over the next few rounds.
See, with my party, that's a recipe for "TPK, roll new characters." They already charged a bandit camp that they were sent to break up. Rather than sneaking in, or using strategy to pick people off... they charged in, burned the whole place down, and retreated before the wizard (the duskblade was originally a wizard... who later died due to idiocy and was replaced) got killed horribly. They are still gauging their durability I think, so I expect they will shape up in the next few sessions, as they realize how squishy they truly are.


If you've got 4 players already, just roll with it and see how it works first. We hardly ever had a cleric in 3.5. If it doesn't work, then you can consider it.

You'd be surprised how your players may compensate.
Very possible. Since I'm probably going with the suggestion of "mention a Healer, but don't do anything else" it's all good.


If you want to give them some healing potential, give them 1 (or more) healing belts. That should suffice to cover their healing needs for a loooong way. If you are generous enough to give them 1 per PC, with some potions, CLW/Vigor wands, and some scrolls, there should be no need for a healing bot.
I'm running a low-magic campaign, so this won't work. Also, where is the healing belt from?


Why don't you ask the PCs what kind of support character they want? Let them help build it - think of it as a collaborative construction.

You may never really need worry about the NPC overshadowing the PCs if you simply allow the PCs to take turns dictating the NPCs actions in combat rather than running the character yourself. The strengths of the NPC become the player's strengths/ideas.

This would allow your players to branch out a bit. Maybe one of them has never played the sort of character/class your NPC is going to be. Many players tend to specialize in one sort of character (the guy who always plays a halfling rogue) and this would give them a taste of something different, if only for a few turns during every combat. Who knows, maybe one of the specialists will find something to love about the character and decide to play something like it next time rather than a reprise of his/her usual role.

Also, if one of the PCs should happen to meet an unhappy end, the player can assume semi-permanent control of the NPC (and already be somewhat familiar with the NPCs capabilities). This might last until his/her character get rez'd, the player makes a new character, or maybe the player will simply take over playing the NPC as a PC (which would allow the group to come up with a new filler/collaborative NPC).
That's... pretty interesting, actually. Do you use this yourself? If so, how does it work out? Does it take longer in combat? Do things go smoothly?

Your suggestion makes me want to make a Healer available to the party, in case they go for it, just so if someone dies, we have a good precedent for what to do.

-argus

Eldariel
2008-09-04, 04:16 PM
Healing Belt is a Magic Item from Magic Item Compendium - at 750gp a piece, they're pretty much musts for every PC ever (really sort of gives you Healing Surges in 3.5). Great for campaigns without healers, and even with them so that they can preserve their actions and you can keep yourself alive if you risk going down under.