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View Full Version : Lack of useful Intelligence (4th Edition)



Haakon
2008-09-05, 10:59 AM
The post may seem disjointed, but I promise there is a point at the end.

In reviewing the 4th edition Players Handbook and reading a few comment on these forums, I tend to agree that besides the few classes that rely on Intelligence for the class powers (Primary - Wizards, Secondary - Warlord & Warlock), that is has become the "dump" stat for 4th Edition (replacing charisma).

For those classes that don't have it fueling their powers, it really doesn't do anything (sure, it can be used instead of dexterity to add to your AC and Reflex saves, but most of the other classes besides the ones mentioned require a moderate amount of dexterity).

One of the other elements I found odd was the fact you add half your current level to your modifier for skill checks, for ALL skills. I people evolve and learn, but it seems odd that someone who is used to casting spells or smashing down doors, would instead know a fair bit about picking locks (better then a low level rogue would). I drive a car everyday, but know almost nothing about how it functions (besides enough to make it function).

An idea I came up with is this:
-Classes no longer receive a level bonus to skills.
-The skills available for each class don't change, neither does the initial selection process.
For example: a first level Cleric gets Religion and then 3 more trained skills (in this case, Arcana, Diplomacy and Heal). Each of these skills is determined the normal way: Total = 1/2 level + trained + feat + race + stat).
-The cleric also has an intelligence of 14, which gives a +2 modifier.
-Because of the +2 modifier, the cleric is allowed to choose 2 more skills from their list, but they aren't considered to be "trained" in them. They don't receive the +5 bonus.

At the end, the cleric has 3 sets of skills:
-Ones that are trained (and most likely have the highest bonus)
-A second group that were chosen at creation from the class list (due to a higher intelligence), but simply don't have a "trained" bonus.
-Every other skill, calculated normally, but lacking the level bonus.

There is one little issue that would pop up: a Warlord with an intelligence bonus higher than 16, a Warlock with 18 or higher intelligence or a Wizard with an intelligence higher then 18 would have no additional skills to choose from on their class list (because they have a large enough stat modifier to choose them all). They could be allowed to choose an additional skill beyong that of there class list or simply be limited to it.

Thoughts? Comments?

AgentPaper
2008-09-05, 12:35 PM
I don't know about you, but when my players make a 4 int character, I make sure they're playing a 4 int character. One notable occasion, between a gnome wizard and a human ranger:

Wizard: "I walk down the stairs to the level he is on"
Ranger: "SPY! I attack him!"

Starsinger
2008-09-05, 04:09 PM
1. The constant "Int is the New Charisma" thing amuses me because noone cared nearly as much when Charisma was the dumpstat.

2. That's horrible, right back to every class wanting Int.

3. A decent fix would be to make Int or Dex add to initiative. Which will put Charisma back in its place as least desirable stat unless you actually need it for your class.

Shadow_Elf
2008-09-05, 04:33 PM
I think one of the things that has improved charisma is the ability to use Bluff as an encounter power. On a successful Bluff check against a nearby enemy, you gain combat advantage against them. I believe the DC is their Will defence, but I can't remember. Even Brutal Scoundrel Rogues should Charisma as their third, if only for this power. And its handy for any other striker too, although it typically ends up as a dump stat for Rangers.
I think one should be able to use Intelligence for a homebrew skill I thought of just now: Mathematics. Allows you to calculate the trajectory of traps, the range of siege weapons, the strength of a bow etc. with a few calculations. Would this make INT more useful?

mroozee
2008-09-05, 08:04 PM
1. The constant "Int is the New Charisma" thing amuses me because noone cared nearly as much when Charisma was the dumpstat.

2. That's horrible, right back to every class wanting Int.

3. A decent fix would be to make Int or Dex add to initiative. Which will put Charisma back in its place as least desirable stat unless you actually need it for your class.

In the "real world", I suspect that Intelligence WAS the dump stat among medieval adventuring types. Strength and Constitution were must-haves. Dexterity for anyone not wearing massive amounts of armor was required. Wisdom and Charisma to get by on a day-to-day basis... ok. But for MOST adventuring types, would they be brainy? Probably not that often aside from the occasional smart Rogue.

In a "fantasy world", Wizards, Artificers, Psions, and maybe a clever Bard might be bright... a Warlord (not sure if they should be categorized as an adventurer) could be, too. So maybe it SHOULD be the dump stat for everyone else?

Kizara
2008-09-05, 08:34 PM
Use the 3.5 skill system. It really is a great system.

If you feel it makes people a bit too unskilled, give everyone 2 free skill points (increase all class progressions by 2). This lowers the power of the human racial choice a bit, but they are good enough anyways.