OOTS #590 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Monsterknuffel]

Nice strategy Kubota. The langer you talk, the more support will arrive, the harder the fight will be. Nice strip^^

[Totally Guy]

Thought I saw it coming then bam! Reversal of fortune!

[Evil DM Mark3]

I have always said, Elan is The Chick (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChick) for the party.

[Vargtass]

I especially like the Hero with fair companion line! Lots of talking heads, but when what they say is this well-written, at least I don't mind missing out on action.

[Azazel]

Excellent strip. Bravo.

[Repzak]

This one made me laugh, even if I did see Elan being the girl coming from several panels away ^^

[Nevitan]

Well, I'm tired, and I swear my computer was telling me there was a new strip because It wouldn't stop coming out of its sleep mode while I wqs trying to sleep, so I probably missed half of the jokes, aside from the Gender role switching thing so I'll reread it tomorrow.
also:: my thoughts/predictions
Return of the gender belt... what you thought there was more?
leave me alone, I'm tired

[xelliea]

great a lot quicker than the last i loved it

[Coke_Can64]

Kasumi... you know that people can read stuff by the first letter of the words.... :smallbiggrin:
Nice strip, a wall of text with a great ending.

[zyphyr]

Wonderful strip.

I think everyone but Elan himself saw that one coming.

[RMS Oceanic]

Uh-oh, cliffhanger alert!

Somebody's gonna die within three pages. I can feel it.

[dogmac]

Elan, time for some major dashing swordsman now.

Or something...

I wasn't expecting that from Therkla at all though. Very sensible move from her point of view.

[Paragon Badger]

Wonderful strip.

I think everyone but Elan himself saw that one coming.

I didn't. :smallfrown:

[NisseBosseLasse]

Mmpher fnffer!
Just brilliant! Great work.

[hamishspence]

Since I was reading it pretty quickly I didn't have a chance to see it coming, but it is pretty predictable. As well as putting the focus on Therkla rather than Elan.

I forsee that Therkla will be playing a moderately big part for at least a few strips: and that she may get traction. Killing her off would be a little disappointing.

[Jeivar]

HAH! "Fair companion"! I guess that about sums up the amount of respect Kubota has for Elan. :smallbiggrin: And I love how dedicated he is to the whole villainy thing, like how he doesn't entirely blame Therkla for betraying him. Just for not doing it WELL.

Nice one. The end caught me by surprise and actually had me laughing out loud. :)

[Child Conscript]

ah great as usual. :smallsmile:

[Santiago]

Possible alignment shift in 5... 4.... 3.... 2...

[Laurentio II]

Mmmph! Mmpher fnnfer nf fnna frrr fff!

Last word should not be "aff"? Anyway, I prefer this talking to "%$@ers!".
Wow. Great woman. I just DON'T want to be there when she is going to go through the labor. It will be probably Daigo's biggest beating in life.

[warmachine]

This is why Roy is the leader of OotS, not the more charismatic Elan.

[nli10]

Mmmph! Mmpher fnnfer nf fnna frrr fff!

Last word should not be "aff"? Anyway, I prefer this talking to "%$@ers!".
Wow. Great woman. I just DON'T want to be there when she is going to go through the labor. It will be probably Daigo's biggest beating in life.

Zombie Dave approves.

[Aurorax]

Its part of the Dashing Swordsman strategy. Make the villian talk incessantly!....maybe....:smallfrown:

[Grunjon]

"Yeah, it's a big day for gender equality all around"

ROFL. Good strip, Giant. Not just funny (even if we could see Elan's role-reversal coming), but well thought-out, too, in terms of Therkla's being on both sides of the issues and - despite appearances - not actually intending to betray Kubota. Of course, now Kubota's pretty much forcing her hand and making her choose a side, instead of sitting on the fence.

It also shows that Elan's naive in some ways, but not so much in others. "Yeah, give up now and you can...get away with everything you've done so far?" Right there you simply NAILED it, Giant!! How often do we see THAT basic situation crop up in a story, where the bad guy is offered a walk if he only stops what he's in the middle of doing just then? I'm always stunned whenever I see that poor plot device, and I'm glad you called out on it. Thumbs up!

[banjo1985]

Yay, Elan gets to be the girl! Fulfilling some hidden fantasies there I fear. :smalltongue:

Great stuff, it'll be interesting to see which way Therlka will go.

[Santiago]

I wonder what would That Guy With A Halberd do if he was Therkla.....

Naaaah, he's too much of a god to be caught in that situation. :smallcool:

[Estelindis]

Excellent strip. This is exactly what I expected Therkla to do and say... From this point onwards, though, I'm not so sure. If she remains loyal to Kubota, she must know that he might never trust her again.

[Tobrian]

Oh, Therkla. If the villain offers you the Sadistic Choice (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SadisticChoice), take the Third Option (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeAThirdOption)! Come on, Kubota's men hold three hostages, but this only means Kubota himself has left himself completely vulnerable. You're right between him and all his men! He's not even armed! You can simply turn the tables on him and take him hostage! He still thinks you're his thrall and won't dare to lay a finger on him. Prove him wrong and kick his arrogant ass!


I especially like the Hero with fair companion line!
Since Therkla is a half-orc, Kubota probably doesn't consider her "fair" as in "pretty", so not only is he sarcastic here calling her "hero", Elan must fill the role of the "fair companion". :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, though, for once Elan wanted to fight straight away because he knows how things go when the smirking manipulative card-carrying villain (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CardCarryingVillain) agrees to talk... it's always a ruse to buy time. But Therkla was betrayed by her own Lawful alignment and her wish to become "good". *sigh* No good deed goes unpunished.

[SnowballMan]

When I got to the second to last panel, all I could think was : "Why do Kubota's men have giant arrows on their heads pointing to their faces?"

[Electric_Monkey]

Especially when you consider that "fair" can mean "blonde" - and Elan is both blonde and pretty.

[Tobrian]

When I got to the second to last panel, all I could think was : "Why do Kubota's men have giant arrows on their heads pointing to their faces?"
Perhaps they need the pointers (pardon the pun) otherwise they wouldn't be smart enough to know which way to put on their helmets. Hey, qualified henchmen are hard to find these days. :smallwink: And manipulative villains love stupid henchmen, because they can spot any attempt to betray them from a mile away.

[Holammer]

When I got to the second to last panel, all I could think was : "Why do Kubota's men have giant arrows on their heads pointing to their faces?"

Since it's a kabuto helm design it's probably meant to be a mon ornament that denotes clan allegiance. Azure city guards had a similar mon with horseshoe design remember?

[HOLEkevin]

Well, at least we know who wears the ninja-pants in that relationship.

[Cicobalico]

Grat comic as always Giant :smallbiggrin:

[Moonshadow]

Oh hell... Doing that to her when she's already hormonal was NOT a good idea Kubota...


All hell will break loose if Kazumi gets loose >_> I imagine those shortswords going somewhere mighty uncomfortable for Kubota <_<

[Wreckingrocc]

Wow... I can't believe Elan was disarmed and grappled in the same round and he failed both checks :P I thought he was a good fighter...

EDIT: Elan probably can withstand a hit. Watch her stab Kubota and the guards all in the same round (High BAB).

[Deepkicker]

Great strip! The last panel is hilarious. I'm eager to see what happens here, but we're more than likely going to be thrown back to V and Durkon for the next strip. Which is fine by me. I'm eager to see what happens there too.

[Mauve Shirt]

Heehee, role reversal.

I hope Therkla chooses the side of good! And/or that Kazumi breaks loose and kills all of the ninjas.

[Blaznak]

So will there be a mumbled speech translation thread... ;)

[Graymayre]

There was always arguement on whether or not Therkla actually was lawful evil. While I still sit on the fence about it, I have to say that in this strip there is no doubt to me that she is performing a neutral act. If it isn't, then I'm a blueberry and sock sandwich.

However, I doubt this one act will push her to the neutral alignment just yet (though it probably will in the future).

[Green and Red]

Whoa, nice one. didnt see that coming, and had me laughing...

For me, Kubota has just bee upgraded from "lame card-carrying manipulator" to almost "magnificent bastard" That one was simply cool.

[Dacia Brabant]

So will there be a mumbled speech translation thread... ;)

There would be, but we're not allowed to use those words here. :smalltongue:

And yay for Kubota finally doing something respectably villanous. Even money on Therkla turning around and taking him hostage though, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get some kind of a "big reveal" to her by Kubota either--just before she flips out.

[Danukian]

"Awwww, man - I didn't know I was going to be the girl!" :smallbiggrin:

Great Strip

[Sequinox]

That had me laughing really hard. Loved it. Of course, it has a big plot part to, so its a two for one special :smallbiggrin:!

[Remirach]

Daigo's just tied up, but Kazumi appears to have shackles on her wrists and ankles as well. Nice little detail and a reminder of who the really dangerous one is in that pair. Poor, poor Daigo.

My first thought was in line with Tobrian's -- Therkla should attempt to hold Kubota hostage as well. But I guess there would be doubt on Kubota's part that she would be at all willing to go through with the implicit threat. She's still obviously extremely concerned about his well-being... she not only doesn't want him hurt, she doesn't even want him to lose any status!

I still kinda think Therkla will wind up dying... but I hope that's not how it goes down. I really don't hope Daigo or even worse, Kazumi die... but I'd be more than happy with Kubota's death.

[Mad Scientist]

Ha ha! Poor Elan, I'm surprized he didn't see that one coming.
Random thought, does anyone else find it interesting that the characters can have mustaches even though no one has a nose?

[factotum]

Interesting to see that Kubota is as genre savvy as Elan, and a lot more intelligent with it...

[Lord Iames Osari]

For me, Kubota has just bee upgraded from "lame card-carrying manipulator" to almost "magnificent bastard" That one was simply cool.
Ditto. :smallcool:

[silvadel]

It is time for a diago incredible hulk last name moment

Kabuto is actually being dumb here because despite it all Therkla was still loyal. Now it is anyone's guess. Poor girls heart.

[Tundar]

When I got to the second to last panel, all I could think was : "Why do Kubota's men have giant arrows on their heads pointing to their faces?"

Hahaha I was so thinking "wtf, what WoW hunter marked those two?"


Come on Elan, time to show some more swordsman and less dashing!

[Linkavitch]

Nice comic. :elan: Aww, I didn't know I was going to be the girl!:biggrin:

[Underfoot]

I think she'll sneak attack Kubota and then order the guards to release their hostages.

Because she's full of the awesome.

[fractal]

So apparently Kubota, despite (so he says) being an ineffective fighter himself, is pretty good at hiring help. Therkla obviously needs to be at least as powerful as the OotS, and those two samurai easily brought down Kazumi, and together overpowered Elan as well. I'd guess they're at least level 10 warriors or fighters.

[Edit] Poor Therkla, btw. This "I don't want to be the villain or the hero" attitude of hers is just going to get her into trouble.

[Eric]

and those two samurai easily brought down Kazumi, and together overpowered Elan as well. I'd guess they're at least level 10 warriors or fighters.

What you on about, foo'?

Complete surprise, bud. Roll to disarm. Done.

As to Therkla, she'll either give in to Kabuto or Hide and sneak attack Kabuto and tell the guards to give up or their paymaster is for the chop.

She's not overly scrupled except where loyalty is concerned. So is she more loyal to Elan or Kabuto?

[fractal]

What you on about, foo'?

Complete surprise, bud. Roll to disarm. Done.
Even if you somehow argue that Kazumi and/or Elan were surprised, being surprised doesn't make you easier to disarm at all. It denies you your dex bonus to ac, but disarming someone is an opposed attack roll, which is unaffected by ac.

[Trizap]

didn't see that one coming, it built up to that moment of genre savvyness where
Elan says aloud what happens next, then Kubota inverts the trope and takes Elan.

thus depriving Elan of his genre savvy cause know he doesn't possibly know whats going to happen! brilliant! simply brilliant, didn't expect that.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Oh, Kubota, you're the best villain ever. :smallbiggrin:

And I think he's the first Contractually Genre Blind (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContractualGenreBlindness) character in OotS. Nice!

[Warren Dew]

Wow... I can't believe Elan was disarmed and grappled in the same round and he failed both checks :P

Remember, Elan works by plot. As he had just explained, the plot said that he had to get grappled.

Nice to see Kubota act like a actual villain instead of a bumbling fool for once.

Therkla actually has some spine! Could you guys put the predictions in spoiler tags, though?

Kazumi wears some serious hair spray - she's tightly gagged and it doesn't muss her hair a bit!

[chiasaur11]

Yes!
I called Therkla's motives about 3 or four strips ago!

Also, this was really good.

[Warren Dew]

I called Therkla's motives about 3 or four strips ago!

I thought her motives were clear, but actually seeing her stand up to Elan was a bit of a surprise.

[Ganurath]

I like this strip in only that it allows Therkla to have a CMOA in the next one. I'm not which is more likely to come from a villian's reformed protege: Revealing that she didn't come to House Kato's quarters directly just before the troops that House Kato trained storm the room, or revealing that there's a reason she always refered to them as her ninja before the pair that are still alive stick shurikens in the backs of Kubota's samurai before releasing House Kato. Which they'd be cool with, since they never actually attacked anyone and what actions they did take were intended to drop the guard of their true targets.

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Kubota will die, and hopefully its by being run through by Hinjo's katana, perferrably the silver one. If it was really crazy, I would like to have melmen from DnDorks making a cameo by impaling him for making a bad pun, but one can dream, can't he?

[Arlion]

exelent strip.My guess is that the story is gonna change to haley,s group for nine strips.Then,at the big 600,its going to be a double strip,like 422,showing both storylines resolutions

[John Campbell]

I'm kind of disappointed that the mooks didn't nullify Elan just by grabbing him by the Standard Female Grab Area (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardFemaleGrabArea) designated for that purpose.

[Lamech]

I think she'll sneak attack Kubota and then order the guards to release their hostages.
I'm guessing Kubota is about to die as well. Unfortunetly, that will look really bad for Diago and Kazumi. Kubota dead by a ninja? His gaurds captured by said ninja? What will Diago and Kazumi say, "We were being attacked by the ninja's! Thats why a ninja had to save us and Kubota died."? Hinjo won't be able to claim that ninja-girl was working for Kubota with out getting called insane. Kubota will look innocent and Hinjo won't have much choice except to raise Kubota. Besides, I'm betting that imp can get his hands on a rezz spell of some sort.

[Squirrel_Token]

... anyone else wondering why if the entire point of this mission was to "excise the Kato bloodline" (see 589, panel 5), Kubota's henchmen elected to tie-up Kazumi and Daigo rather than simply killing them? When did the plan shift from "end the line of the rival nobles" to "let's bring the hostages back to my ship so that they can eventually escape, sneak around and learn the rest of my plans, and then return to their ship to inform the good-guys"?

[Morty]

Maybe it's wieird, but I love to see Elan's little genre-savvy theatrical delusions brutally shaterred.

[Ganurath]

... anyone else wondering why if the entire point of this mission was to "excise the Kato bloodline" (see 589, panel 5), Kubota's henchmen elected to tie-up Kazumi and Daigo rather than simply killing them? When did the plan shift from "end the line of the rival nobles" to "let's bring the hostages back to my ship so that they can eventually escape, sneak around and learn the rest of my plans, and then return to their ship to inform the good-guys"?Hostage leverage. He'll kill them once he's sure all meddlers have been dealt with.

[SPoD]

... anyone else wondering why if the entire point of this mission was to "excise the Kato bloodline" (see 589, panel 5), Kubota's henchmen elected to tie-up Kazumi and Daigo rather than simply killing them? When did the plan shift from "end the line of the rival nobles" to "let's bring the hostages back to my ship so that they can eventually escape, sneak around and learn the rest of my plans, and then return to their ship to inform the good-guys"?

Once Elan and Therkla enter the room, the math changes. The Katos become leverage against the more powerful characters should the need arise. Killing the Katos is not worth it if Kubota himself can't survive the encounter.

[Danukian]

I'm kind of disappointed that the mooks didn't nullify Elan just by grabbing him by the Standard Female Grab Area (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardFemaleGrabArea) designated for that purpose.

He pretty much did - the mook comes from behind and grabs Elan's arm, causing him to be helplessly pinned and drop his sword.

[Danukian]

Even if you somehow argue that Kazumi and/or Elan were surprised, being surprised doesn't make you easier to disarm at all. It denies you your dex bonus to ac, but disarming someone is an opposed attack roll, which is unaffected by ac.

The mook surprised Elan with a Grapple (which is affected by ac), than used the Disarmed him while he was suffering Grapple penalties to his Opposed Attack roll.

[Blue Ghost]

Well, I can say that my respect for Kubota has just skyrocketed.
Great work, Giant!

[Solara]

Hmm, as much as I like Therkla, she's just showing that she herself can be as naive as Elan...I really don't think she thought this plan through. Both Elan and the Katos now have proof that Kubota is evil, obviously they're going to be telling Hinjo about what he tried so it's not like he can just walk away now and all is forgiven and forgotten. Now that Kubota's tipped his hand he's going to see this thing through to the bitter end because at this point it's the only thing he can do.

[maxon]

I'm a blueberry and sock sandwich.

mmm ... chewy.

[Meshakhad]

Wrong move, Kubota.

Defecting ninja in three, two...

[Eric]

Even if you somehow argue that Kazumi and/or Elan were surprised, being surprised doesn't make you easier to disarm at all. It denies you your dex bonus to ac, but disarming someone is an opposed attack roll, which is unaffected by ac.

However, you DO get a free attack. An attack that can disarm you before you can attack them, thereby making it look like you had no chance.

[Lissou]

Funny, clever, makes me crave for the next strips.

I'm staring to "like" Kubota as a villain. By which I mean, he's more and more characterised in my eyes. There was the "I'm so proud of you" moment earlier when Therkla weaseled out of responsibility, and now the "you could have betrayed me for a man who at least pretends to love you".

Also, it sounds like he does like Therkla, in some father-related sense. Which is nice.

I wonder what's going to happen to Kubota, now.

[Eric]

Therkla actually has some spine! Could you guys put the predictions in spoiler tags, though?

Wilco.

Unless I forget.

'course, it would be nicer to see a tag for "speculation".

[Lostboy]

Without actually writing dirty words, would someone please translate the mumbles? I got the "M____ F____" part, but the rest is a mystery.

[David Argall]

"Yeah, give up now and you can...get away with everything you've done so far?" Right there you simply NAILED it, Giant!! How often do we see THAT basic situation crop up in a story, where the bad guy is offered a walk if he only stops what he's in the middle of doing just then? I'm always stunned whenever I see that poor plot device, and I'm glad you called out on it. Thumbs up!
Actually it's a quite real one. Just about all peace treaties amount to this. It may be morally distressing that the evil one breaks even, or profits, but a lot of people don't die trying to bring him to justice.

From a plot view, the offer, and its routine rejection, establishes the good guys as the "reasonable" party, who now have no choice but to use morally questionable actions to "defend" themselves. It eliminates sympathy for the villain.



as much as I like Therkla, she's just showing that she herself can be as naive as Elan...I really don't think she thought this plan through.
Quite possibly not, but what choice does she have? She retains a great deal of loyalty to Kubota and the hots for Elan. Almost any alternative she might have come up with is bad for one of those. A half-baked idea of just calling the whole thing off at least has the hope that she can satisfy her competing needs.


Now that Kubota's tipped his hand he's going to see this thing through to the bitter end because at this point it's the only thing he can do.
Well, strictly speaking, his hand can get untiped. It is rather a lot of work to get nowhere, but Elan and the Katos can agree to forget about the evening's entertainment and everybody just goes back to normal. Kubota just doesn't see much reason to try it.



My guess is that the story is gonna change to haley,s group for nine strips.Then,at the big 600,its going to be a double strip,like 422,showing both storylines resolutions
Other than making a big deal out of 600, there seems to be little virtue to the idea. And our writer has not been much for leaving us in suspense. Our breaks have been when that particular story had a decent stopping point, not at the dramatic moment.



So apparently Kubota, despite (so he says) being an ineffective fighter himself, is pretty good at hiring help. Therkla obviously needs to be at least as powerful as the OotS, and those two samurai easily brought down Kazumi, and together overpowered Elan as well. I'd guess they're at least level 10 warriors or fighters.
You are assuming here that the pictured NPCs are every NPC. This is obviously dubious, and particularly for our artist, who routinely puts the minimum number of people in any crowd scene. There are two samurai pictured, but there may easily be 20 in the actual scene.
And our expectant mom is only 6th level, so with 2-1 odds, they don't need to be beyond 5th.
Nor does Therkla have to be anything close to PC level here. She has done nothing more impressive than taking out a couple of mooks, and being Kubota's top ninja.



Oh, Therkla. If the villain offers you the Sadistic Choice, take the Third Option! Come on, Kubota's men hold three hostages, but this only means Kubota himself has left himself completely vulnerable. take him hostage! He still thinks you're his thrall and won't dare to lay a finger on him. Prove him wrong and kick his arrogant ass!
We look likely to have some Third Option allright, but I doubt this one. Therkla is still trying to be "loyal" to Kubota, and this choice requires her to dump this highly valued loyalty.


for once Elan wanted to fight straight away because he knows how things go when the smirking manipulative card-carrying villain agrees to talk... it's always a ruse to buy time.
Not at all. The villain can also be exposing himself. Here for example Kubota might have given his long speech, ending with something like "And nobody will know once I kill you." with the answer being "Well, that would be true if Hinjo and the party wasn't standing in the doorway listening."
The basic purpose here is to keep the audience informed. So we can attach any of a number of "reasons" to that.

[Vest Man!]

If Elan is a girl then so am I!

[Warren Dew]

... anyone else wondering why if the entire point of this mission was to "excise the Kato bloodline" (see 589, panel 5), Kubota's henchmen elected to tie-up Kazumi and Daigo rather than simply killing them? When did the plan shift from "end the line of the rival nobles" to "let's bring the hostages back to my ship so that they can eventually escape, sneak around and learn the rest of my plans, and then return to their ship to inform the good-guys"?

The plot requires it. I don't think the fans would stand for both Katos being offed, not to mention they've got four names between them.

[HUMVEE Driver]

Great; now between the long interludes between updates and the cutscenes with the (3? 4?) other storylines I'm going to be eating turkey by the time I find out what Therkla chooses.

Now I know how Beorn felt.

[Ceric]

I like the range of emotion that Elan shows. In order: confused, angry, confused, happy, angry, thoughtful, startled, sad. 7 changes in his 9 panels.


I have always said, Elan is The Chick (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChick) for the party.

And someone already added this to those examples. :smallsmile:

[recluso]

I suddenly realized something...

The success of Hinjo to establish a new city is not essential for the OOTS plot.

So could it be that Hinjo (and maybe Durkon) get killed by the Demon. V runs out of spells again and cowardly invisiblizes again - upon thinking deeper later, this increases V self esteem crisis even more.

The fact Daigo and Kazumi aren't killed right away might mean Kubota will get talked by Therkla into disposing them and Elan in an escapable way.

After a dozen or so comics, we will have Elan, V, Daigo, Kazumi and maybe Durkon left on some island, and Kubota in charge of the whole fleet and disappearing out of the story for a long time.

The party has some very depressed conversation. While having no hope, V will scry once on Haley, just to prove that everything is hopeless. They will get contact.

In other words: the whole Kubota arc will convince this half of OOTS to stop the useless boat travelling. Therkla's just helps Elan to survive.

[David Argall]

Great; now between the long interludes between updates and the cutscenes with the (3? 4?) other storylines I'm going to be eating turkey by the time I find out what Therkla chooses.

Correct if you still have some leftovers from last year, or take advantage of daily specials, but Therkla will choose very soon

[Rev. George]

Here's my guess:

Therlka: Daymio Kubota, what you are saying is that I must choose who dies?
Kubota: Yes.
T: ....<i>thinking...</i>
T: I choose..... You <i> sclurtch</i>


But I have been wrong before.

-+G

[Matuse]

Kazumi has quite a mouth on her, doesn't she? Easy to see why they gagged her, and you can STILL pretty much make out what she's saying.

[Ron Miel]

Well, I can make out m----- f-----, but not the rest. And I'm not even sure if that refers to Elan or Kubota.

[chiasaur11]

Well, I can make out m----- f-----, but not the rest. And I'm not even sure if that refers to Elan or Kubota.


I'm guessing humanity in general.
Kazumi is really angry right now.

[ericgrau]

Nice strip. And as for the would-be assasinated...

Of course! <slaps forehead> He's not gagged, his last name...

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Hahaha...poor Elan. As awesome as he's been doing so far, I guess he kinda had this coming.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

Well, I'm kinda disappointed in this arc. I was hoping this was Elan's time to shine, but it's still really good.

Well, we've seen that Therkla doesn't want anyone hurt, so there's no way she'll let Kubota and his men harm her former enemies.

I'm afraid poor Therkla is going to have to fight her former lord.

[John Campbell]

He pretty much did - the mook comes from behind and grabs Elan's arm, causing him to be helplessly pinned and drop his sword.

Nah, it's... well, it's kind of hard to tell with stick figures, but it looks more like a two-armed bear-hug and lift off the ground than the, "Oh no, someone is gripping my upper arm! I guess I'm totally helpless now!" that characterizes the Standard Female Grab Area.


On an unrelated topic, who else thinks Kazumi needs to pick up some levels in Barbarian?

[Red XIV]

On an unrelated topic, who else thinks Kazumi needs to pick up some levels in Barbarian?
How do you know she hasn't already? :smalltongue:

[Lizard Lord]

This is why Roy is the leader of OotS, not the more charismatic Elan.

See also: Almost every other strip with Elan in it.

[Fernando_wtg]

Elan, poor Elan...
It seems a bad situation to be helpless and being hugged by a man from behind... phew....
hard one...

[chiasaur11]

See also: Almost every other strip with Elan in it.

I question your use of the word "Almost".

[FujinAkari]

Well, I'm kinda disappointed in this arc. I was hoping this was Elan's time to shine,

... Didn't Elan just have a solo arc where he breaks out of prison, befriends an enemy fighter, gets onto an airship, gets trained in the way of the Dashing Swordsman, comes to the defense of his love, and defeat his personal rival in single combat?

[John Campbell]

On an unrelated topic, who else thinks Kazumi needs to pick up some levels in Barbarian?
How do you know she hasn't already? :smalltongue:
Already having some doesn't preclude getting more!

[David Argall]

Elan, poor Elan...
It seems a bad situation to be helpless and being hugged by a man from behind... phew....
hard one...

Yes, if it is a hard one, there is definitely something for Elan to worry about.

[ishnar]

I'm kind of disappointed that the mooks didn't nullify Elan just by grabbing him by the Standard Female Grab Area (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardFemaleGrabArea) designated for that purpose.

No, they grab his boobs instead.

When you think about it, it's also a standard female grab area. Unfortunatly, since Elan isn't really a girl he lacks the auto-response to unwanted groping.

[Ikialev]

...i don't get this striip ;_;

Or, maybe it's too early to read.

[Eric]

Great; now between the long interludes between updates and the cutscenes with the (3? 4?) other storylines I'm going to be eating turkey by the time I find out what Therkla chooses.

Now I know how Beorn felt.

Well if you can't be bothered to wait, why not do what we do: make up what we THINK will happen next.

Or go off and do something less boring instead. Why don't you?

[MyrddinDerwydd]

Mmmph! Mmpher fnnfer nf fnna frrr fff!

Last word should not be "aff"? Anyway, I prefer this talking to "%$@ers!".
Wow. Great woman. I just DON'T want to be there when she is going to go through the labor. It will be probably Daigo's biggest beating in life.

Wait, we actually know exactly what this is supposed to mean?? Other than generalized cursing?

[LuisDantas]

The first word is exactly what it sounds like: an interjection protesting against her gagging.

The three words after that are easy enough to guess, thanks to the initials being the same as a very widespread phrase that is often uttered in such situations.

The last three I fail to recognize.

[brilliantlight]

Wrong move, Kubota.

Defecting ninja in three, two...

Agreed, Therkla is probably going to kick the crap out of him.

[Zolem]

Since it's a kabuto helm design it's probably meant to be a mon ornament that denotes clan allegiance. Azure city guards had a similar mon with horseshoe design remember?

PErsonaly if I had a clan my mon would be a hebbi. And then I'd fool everyone by being loyal. I'd get to freak people out, get a fierce reputation, and not have to do anything illegal. Works for me.

[teratorn]

Therkla is my hero!



Random thought, does anyone else find it interesting that the characters can have mustaches even though no one has a nose?

You lost me there. Do you mean that when I had a moustache I let it grow the wrong way? Was I supposed to let it grow from nose hair?

[Amarsir]

"Yeah, give up now and you can...get away with everything you've done so far?" Right there you simply NAILED it, Giant!! How often do we see THAT basic situation crop up in a story, where the bad guy is offered a walk if he only stops what he's in the middle of doing just then? I'm always stunned whenever I see that poor plot device, and I'm glad you called out on it. Thumbs up!
Same here. One of the worst for it IMHO was the early years of ST: DS9. Every other episode had:

Odo: "Well Quark, you evesdropped on protected Federation channels, forged travel documents, and conspired to smuggle illegal weapons. But in the end you didn't make any profit, so we'll call it even."


However, Therkla's position doesn't really make sense either. If he just walked away, then he's left witnesses (victims) to testify against him him. So he would hardly get away with it.

[Adrilimos]

Elan seems far more concerned about the normal method of 'capturing the girl' being changed than he is about the two large armed men hoisting him off the ground.

There is no way Elan will attemp to escape. Its against his bardic beliefs. So lets see how well Therkla handles this. :smallamused:

[Arcadius798]

i so want to see Therkla go "f___ it" then go ape**** crazy on kabota

but giant, you made my day

my first thought seeing elan taken

"IT'S ROLE REVERSAL TIME"

[Ron Miel]

If he just walked away, then he's left witnesses (victims) to testify against him him. So he would hardly get away with it.

Trouble is you still need proof to take the case before the magistrate. And witness testimony would amount to the word of a Noble Lord versus a foreign ghost and two commoners with ideas above their station. You'll need much stronger evidence than this.

[chiasaur11]

Trouble is you still need proof to take the case before the magistrate. And witness testimony would amount to the word of a Noble Lord versus a foreign ghost and two commoners with ideas above their station. You'll need much stronger evidence than this.

No, if he left now, it'd be the word of the ruler's bodyguard and the rulers of a noble house against his word, not to mention what Quarr said.

Basically, I think the idea was "You give up, we shut up". The other idea would be a bit silly.

[David Argall]

There is no way Elan will attemp to escape. Its against his bardic beliefs. So lets see how well Therkla handles this. :smallamused:

The girl escaping is one of the standard continuations here. Maybe a fighter is told to throw a fight or his girl gets it. She then escapes and may be chased and overcome other problems for some time before she manages to reach the ring before the last round.
Now here we have the Katos as a complication, but maybe something like... Kubota orders our girl to off the Katos, but decides that their bodies need to be found elsewhere for some reason. So they exit, leaving some mooks to take Elan to a prison cell on Kubota's ship. But Elan escapes on the way and then rushes off to tell Therkla that, following which the two rescue the Katos.

[Red XIV]

Trouble is you still need proof to take the case before the magistrate. And witness testimony would amount to the word of a Noble Lord versus a foreign ghost and two commoners with ideas above their station. You'll need much stronger evidence than this.
Daigo and Kazumi are nobles, whether the other nobles like it or not. If that weren't the case, then Kubota would have no reason to bother with having them killed.

[zach12376]

Mmmph! Mmpher fnnfer nf fnna frrr fff!

Last word should not be "aff"? Anyway, I prefer this talking to "%$@ers!".
Wow. Great woman. I just DON'T want to be there when she is going to go through the labor. It will be probably Daigo's biggest beating in life.

I do not get this entire thing:smallfurious: i am realy angry at this, could someone explain:smallsmile:

[Laurentio II]

Wait, we actually know exactly what this is supposed to mean?? Other than generalized cursing?
My guest: "Hey! (1) You that enjoy illicit and amoral intercourse with your female parent, I'm going to improperly use the lower orifice of your body, which name rhymes with "glass" "
1 - or other general non significant vocalization

I do not get this entire thing:smallfurious: i am realy angry at this, could someone explain:smallsmile:
As a male, I'm shamefully evoking a common cliche, that women in labor are exceptional tense and bad mouthed. Legends speak of husbands wounded or harmed while trying to calm them.

[Patashu]

I got a lol out of this one. Good on ya.

[Eric]

I do not get this entire thing:smallfurious: i am realy angry at this, could someone explain:smallsmile:


It means that you'd better go to the hospital because your water is about to break...

:smallbiggrin:

[CaptC]

As a male, I'm shamefully evoking a common cliche, that women in labor are exceptional tense and bad mouthed. Legends speak of husbands wounded or harmed while trying to calm them.

My wife bit me on the leg during our second child's birth. But she said she was sorry right away... :smallbiggrin:

[Lee]

My wife bit me on the leg during our second child's birth. But she said she was sorry right away... :smallbiggrin:

Bit you on the leg o O

[innk]

Huh... what lvl are these samurai?

I mean, if they could just GRAB Elan like this, why this whole situation would even occour? Im talking about this "surrender or die!" thing.. if the evil group there are strong enough to just hold prisioner the lvl, what, 13 PC, why would Kubota do that whole speech? "Physically weaker" and stuff, they are not looks like :P

[Laurentio II]

I mean, if they could just GRAB Elan like this, why this whole situation would even occour? Im talking about this "surrender or die!" thing.. if the evil group there are strong enough to just hold prisioner the lvl, what, 13 PC, why would Kubota do that whole speech? "Physically weaker" and stuff, they are not looks like :P
The speech was to have Elan flatfooted. And it worked.
And about Elan's level... I won't get surprised to found that Elan let the NPC to capture him, just to allow the plot progress.

[RosesOnConcrete]

I'm not sure who's holding the Idiot Ball in this strip, but I can definitely feel its presence.

Someone's going to die within a few panels, I think. Possibly more, should the Giant decide to cliffhang us and go back to Haley and Co in Greysky.

[Nevitan]

, should the Giant decide to cliffhang us and go back to Haley and Co in Greysky.

If he wanted to cliff hang us he would probably skip to Roy in the afterlife, or Redcloak and Xykon

[David Argall]

Someone's going to die within a few panels, I think. Possibly more, should the Giant decide to cliffhang us and go back to Haley and Co in Greysky.

Our writer hasn't been much for cliffhangers. Pretty much everything gets resolved, or at least changed, with the next strip. Even Elan rescuing Haley was a cliffhanger only to the degree it had to be. I don't think we have anything close to a case of the hero a second from disaster and then the camera switching to an unrelated scene for a dozen strips. So we can expect the situation at the fleet to be "resolved" before we see Haley again.

Now we may have to define "die" a bit loosely here. Kubota for example might end up "dead" by being arrested and carted off to trial, never to appear in the comic again. But it does look like we are approaching the end of the Kubota strips.

[CaptC]

Bit you on the leg o O

Too long a story to tell as a digression... but simplified: She wanted to stay home and have the kid on the floor. After talking her out of that I was trying to help her up when a contraction hit. I got bit.

[Tobimaro]

That was a bad turn of events. Maybe now he wished that he would have put a rank or two into Escape Artist. :smalleek:

[Warren Dew]

I don't think we have anything close to a case of the hero a second from disaster and then the camera switching to an unrelated scene for a dozen strips. So we can expect the situation at the fleet to be "resolved" before we see Haley again.

I wouldn't go that far. We switched away from the big demon on the island before that situation was resolved, even if it wasn't exactly a cliffhanger.

I'm not sure the Kubota situation is really about to be resolved. Where is Qarr? Is he acting alone, or on orders? I kind of feel like we're only just starting to learn about that whole faction.

[innk]

The speech was to have Elan flatfooted. And it worked.
And about Elan's level... I won't get surprised to found that Elan let the NPC to capture him, just to allow the plot progress.

Nah, it really doenst sounds like this for me..
This already happened a few strips ago, on the net situation, Rich is way more original than that :P

Im thinking the samurai are just mid level too, like level 8 or 9..


To be honest i just wanted really hard to see a fight there :((

[Hithros]

I think the Kubota situation is going to end soon. Either that, or he completely gets away and lengthens his part by a whole lot.

But I think it's probably going to stop soon.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

I think the Kubota situation is going to end soon. Either that, or he completely gets away and lengthens his part by a whole lot.

But I think it's probably going to stop soon.

I'm afraid so too, Qarr and Daimyo Kubota are becoming really good villans.


... Didn't Elan just have a solo arc where he breaks out of prison, befriends an enemy fighter, gets onto an airship, gets trained in the way of the Dashing Swordsman, comes to the defense of his love, and defeat his personal rival in single combat?

Personally, I prefer it when the PC's, (Elan, V, Durkon, Haley, Roy, and Belkar) do something to get themselves out of trouble. I really don't like it when they depend on the NPC's to bail them out.

I just hope no one comes bursting through the door or something lame like that.

[David Argall]

I wouldn't go that far. We switched away from the big demon on the island before that situation was resolved, even if it wasn't exactly a cliffhanger.

Well, you seem to be already conceding the point. However, the battle with the devil is closely connected with the assassination attempt. Both will be resolved before we move on. Nor is there a vital point that must be resolved in the battle. Nobody has announced something like "This had better work..." or "We have got to come up with something fast..." No, we just have a fight going on. For all we can consider it exciting, it's not cliffhanging exciting. If we go back and find a dead devil and a battered party, we may be disappointed, but we won't think the writer is cheating.


I'm not sure the Kubota situation is really about to be resolved. Where is Qarr? Is he acting alone, or on orders? I kind of feel like we're only just starting to learn about that whole faction.
The Kubota story can be dragged out all sorts of ways, but we have passed a milestone. The secret assassination attempts are over and other problems will be confronted.

[Laurentio II]

Nah, it really doenst sounds like this for me..
This already happened a few strips ago, on the net situation, Rich is way more original than that :P
While I enjoy OotS and admit that Mr Burlew is a great writer, recurring gags dragged in the dust from hilarity to boredom are already present. And Elan NEEDED to be captured, for the plot to proceed. Do you prefer "blade through the chest #3"?

[LuisDantas]

the battle with the devil is closely connected with the assassination attempt. Both will be resolved before we move on.

We don't really know that. You even allow for the battle to be solved off-screen below.


Nor is there a vital point that must be resolved in the battle. Nobody has announced something like "This had better work..." or "We have got to come up with something fast..." No, we just have a fight going on. For all we can consider it exciting, it's not cliffhanging exciting. If we go back and find a dead devil and a battered party, we may be disappointed, but we won't think the writer is cheating.

Cheating, of course it is not. But he did surprise me by taking the point of view away from the island fight. From the perspective of the characters themselves it is quite major; for all they know they are doomed, and we know for a fact that NPCs are dying at an alarming rate there.


The Kubota story can be dragged out all sorts of ways, but we have passed a milestone. The secret assassination attempts are over and other problems will be confronted.

Agreed.

[Holammer]

PErsonaly if I had a clan my mon would be a hebbi. And then I'd fool everyone by being loyal. I'd get to freak people out, get a fierce reputation, and not have to do anything illegal. Works for me.

Lost me there, Hebbi? Googled it and found a lot of Icelandic stuff.



My guest: "Hey! (1) You that enjoy illicit and amoral intercourse with your female parent, I'm going to improperly use the lower orifice of your body, which name rhymes with "glass" "
1 - or other general non significant vocalization


Good show sir! you just "roffle'd my pantoffles!" (crazy expression a Scottish guy used to say all the time).

[Rhuadin]

Great comic! Did anyone else notice that comic #146 is also named Role Reversal?

[Vaarsuvius4181]

huminah huminah this is becomming more hard to follow than pirates of the carribean 3. But its still awesome

[innk]

While I enjoy OotS and admit that Mr Burlew is a great writer, recurring gags dragged in the dust from hilarity to boredom are already present. And Elan NEEDED to be captured, for the plot to proceed. Do you prefer "blade through the chest #3"?

Well, if Elan needed to be captured that much, IMO Rich could find something.. better.. than using the very same thing he used a few strips ago, anything really, like the most obvious there, that the samurai guys are just high enough level to capture him.. this maybe (or maybe not) can put into controversy some other things, like, would the samurais be stronger than most of the saphire guard? I dont know. But it would be better still..

Thats why i think something ELSE will occour, and the explanation to why elan is so easily captured will be something really new, i believe that Rich is that original :)

[spectralphoenix]

All they had to do to seize Elan is succeed at a grapple, which shouldn't actually be all that hard - make a touch attack against him (no AoE because he was flatfooted) and beat him at a grapple check. Kubota probably brought his best soldiers with him, so they're probably level 7 or 8 (in the Katos' neighborhood.)

The catch is that grapple checks are based on BAB, STR, and not a whole lot else. Elan's probably something like a Bard 12/ DS 3, so his BAB is +12 (assuming DS gets full progression.) The guards probably have a higher STR and one was aiding the other. So it's an even contest. Throw in Improved Grapple and the guards have the edge.

Of course, Elan could counterattack on his turn, but what kind of Dashing Swordsman ruins someone else's dramatic hostage scene?

[Kaytara]

I... actually dreamed last night that OotS was updated... I even clicked the title and was about to start reading it... Obsessive much? :smallsigh:

[Trizap]

its obvious: Therkla will somehow take out both of the Samurai at once (they are samurai, they are basically underpowered incarnate) then kill Kubota, Daigo
will kick the ninja holding him in the nuts from behind, showing he still badass, the headbutt the other one, Elan then takes both of the ninja out while spouting puns.

[Borris]

Up to the current comic, Therkla has been doing her best so that Kubota doesn't even get arrested. She certainly will not try to kill him. Even if she chooses to attack his samurai and betray him, she'll probably let him escape alive at least this one time.

[innk]

All they had to do to seize Elan is succeed at a grapple, which shouldn't actually be all that hard - make a touch attack against him (no AoE because he was flatfooted) and beat him at a grapple check. Kubota probably brought his best soldiers with him, so they're probably level 7 or 8 (in the Katos' neighborhood.)

The catch is that grapple checks are based on BAB, STR, and not a whole lot else. Elan's probably something like a Bard 12/ DS 3, so his BAB is +12 (assuming DS gets full progression.) The guards probably have a higher STR and one was aiding the other. So it's an even contest. Throw in Improved Grapple and the guards have the edge.

Of course, Elan could counterattack on his turn, but what kind of Dashing Swordsman ruins someone else's dramatic hostage scene?


Thanks for the explanation on D&D basis, i´ve been far away from it a long time now :P

Point is, they could graple elan as easy as you said, but i really dont think its possible for they to hold hostage a lvl 13-14 pc there in that situation - without this "elan letting himself be captured" thing.


I think something like this


its obvious: Therkla will somehow take out both of the Samurai at once (they are samurai, they are basically underpowered incarnate) then kill Kubota, Daigo
will kick the ninja holding him in the nuts from behind, showing he still badass, the headbutt the other one, Elan then takes both of the ninja out while spouting puns.

Is more viable really :P
Well, not the part that she kills Kubota, but oh well.. i think that a fight is about to happen there, i can think in lots of ways it can go with a fight :P

[Blue_Bear]

Nah. My guess: Kubota's Mom will show up finally, and tell him to let go, come home and do his homework, feed the cat, empty the trash, whatever. :smallsmile:

[demona]

maybe it's time for Linear guild to make a comeback :smallsmile:

i don't know why but seconds after i read the comic i had a vision of Thog bursting in through the window wearing another crazy costume :smallbiggrin:


My wife bit me on the leg during our second child's birth. But she said she was sorry right away... :smallbiggrin:
one word: epidural :smallwink:
and that is why during my labor i was like :smallbiggrin: :smallsmile: :smallcool: :smalltongue: :smallbiggrin:

[Eric]

That was a bad turn of events. Maybe now he wished that he would have put a rank or two into Escape Artist. :smalleek:

Problem is that if you HAVE ranks in a skill, they either need to be maxxed out to work or ignored. Your DM never gives you a lock that can be picked with 4 ranks in pick locks. Move silent is opposed by a level-based roll, so two ranks is worthless when you're 10th level.

It's one of the problems I have with DnD's new 3rd edition style non-weapon proficiencies.

That and the d20 roll swamps any ranks until you're high level. Unless you're allowed to "take 10".

[Kaytara]

Looking back through the archives today, I noticed something. Elan's new magic rapier.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html
Julio Scoundrel: "This +3 keen rapier was mine when I was your level. I fenced the Devil-King of Dinosaur Island with it, and I'd like you to have it."

A battle against a powerful devil on an island of some sorts. The owner of the rapier apparently winning. Subtle foreshadowing?

[factotum]

A battle against a powerful devil on an island of some sorts. The owner of the rapier apparently winning. Subtle foreshadowing?

Except that Elan is nowhere near the devil and didn't manage to hurt it when he was, so if it was foreshadowing, it was pretty rubbish foreshadowing...

[Migue]

Does anyone else noticed that the title of comic #590 is the same as comic #146? :smallconfused:

[factotum]

Does anyone else noticed that the title of comic #590 is the same as comic #146? :smallconfused:

At least one other person who's already posted in this thread, but reading is hard, I suppose...

[Migue]

Just went through the whole thread and just noticed the post ..

[kusje]

Except that Elan is nowhere near the devil and didn't manage to hurt it when he was, so if it was foreshadowing, it was pretty rubbish foreshadowing...


Except it doesn't exactly say he won. Just that he fenced with the devil. He might have had to run like a coward!

[only1doug]

Bit you on the leg o O

During our Ante-natal classes (last night) the midwife took great delight in explaining why we men should do exactly as our wives tell us during labour...

"he was hoverring at his wifes shoulder and i asked him to sit down, he said he'd rather stand... his wife grabbed him by the genitals and squeezed, saying SIT DOWN... he squeeked out a reply that he couldn't... after the baby was born we took him down to A&E"

was one of many of her tales of why we men should keep our womenfolk happy during labour, by doing exactly as we were told and not getting in the way.

our baby girl is due on the 28th of september but first babies are often late so early october is more likely.
I'm not permitted to discuss the name yet.

[CaptC]

one word: epidural :smallwink:
and that is why during my labor i was like :smallbiggrin: :smallsmile: :smallcool: :smalltongue: :smallbiggrin:


Yeah, after going all-natural on the first baby, we had decided on an epidural the second time around. But my wife had the proverbial extremely quick second childbirth. At the time she bit me, we were debating whether or not to make the run to the hospital. We called for EMTs, they recommended trying for the hospital. We ended up delivering in an ambulance in the hospital parking lot. No drugs at all the second time... :smalleek:

[dps]

The Kubota story can be dragged out all sorts of ways, but we have passed a milestone. The secret assassination attempts are over and other problems will be confronted.

Yep, for example, if nothing else, Kubota could simply go back to his ship, and he and his supporters sail away from the main fleet. I don't think that's particularly likely, but it would end the current crisis without ending the threat that Kubota poses to Hinjo, the Katos, and the members of the OotS that are with the fleet.

But what can't happen (at least not in any way that I can see) is to go back to the status quo ante: nobody with a name dies, and Kubota goes back plotting against Hinjo in secret.

[Wolf_In_Exile]

Well done Giant

[AlexanderRM]

How do you know she hasn't already? :smalltongue:
You know, rage IS a really good explanation for how she was able to kill like three+ ninja (we only see three dead bodies, but there were six ninja there and more outside, and the next time we see her there's only one in sight, who then disappears) but was then disarmed with a single attack by a nameless fighter type and tied up by two ninja. She used rage and drank a potion, killed most of the ninja, then the potion and the rage wore off, leaving her fatigued.



Does anyone else noticed that the title of comic #590 is the same as comic #146? :smallconfused:
I'm guessing the giant came up with the same idea (well, a similar one) twice... given the fact that his creative process has presumably stayed the same over almost 600 strips, it's surprising we don't see stuff like this more often.