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MeklorIlavator
2008-09-08, 04:48 PM
So, I'm thinking about joining a campaign, and for once its accepts homebrew(after dm review, of course), so I apply and ask if the Hunter is okay. The Dm says yes, but now I have a problem: my stats. They aren't really too bad, being 14, 14, 14, 11, 10, and 10, but they do make things difficult for a archery based character: besides point blank shot, precise shot, and rapid shot all the feats require either high dex or str. So with those scores, what would you do? The sheet is currently here (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=893).

Eldariel
2008-09-08, 05:33 PM
Due to the crappy HD, the only real variable is the 11. Your 14s will be Dex, Con and Wis in that order (powers, HP, to hit/everything). I'd put the 11 in Str simply because it increases your carrying capacity before going over light load. Then I'd pointdump into Dex.

The one easy answer would of course be race though. Since Hunter seems pretty well-endowned Feat-wise, you can afford a race without bonus feat. Lesser Tiefling, Snow Elf, Whisper Gnome, Strongheart Halfling, etc. could help with the stat spread - 16 Dex looks much more manageable already. Of course, a naturally psionic race could help make the powers work out better with the racial power points early on.

MeklorIlavator
2008-09-09, 12:04 AM
Perhaps a Xeph (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicRaces.html)? That would give a str of 9, but it would net a bonus to saves and a power point. Plus the bonus to landspeeds, which could be very handy, what with the main class power being based on movement.

Oh, just to be clear this is a level 5 campaign with normal WBL. I was thinking of just getting a Masterwork Composite Longbow(using my 4th level point on STR), but that might not be the best move at this point. Should I go for a +1 longbow, a dex boosting item, and a HHH? Or would their be better options?

Edit: Also, I can take one trait and on flaw. I was thinking of taking noncombatant and possibly extend power. Right now I have Up the walls and Speed of though, but can anyone think of anything that would really be better in those slots?

bigbaddragon
2008-09-09, 02:27 AM
Kalashtar gives one power point per character level which may come in handy and Elan gives very nice abilities (can add +4 to saves as immediate action and can ignore 2 damage per power point spent also as immediate action) and 2 power points at first level. Depending on material available to you try to get Earthbound (I think that is its name) enchantment from ECS to your bow. It counts as +1 bonus and it gives you +2 to hit and damage with ranged weapons as long as you are touching the ground (or maybe its with all weapons).

All your ability points should definitely go into dex and as far as your str goes you could just purchase +1 str item if your DM is okay with that (the same goes for dex at your current level).

Since the description of the class says its proficient with ALL bows I wonder if you could (ab)use this to get Greatbow (d10 damage and slightly greater range I think).

Also there is an option to go with Whisper Gnome (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3) which would give dex and con bonuses and str and cha penalties and +1 size bonus to attacks. With small sized greatbow (I know, it sound funny :smallsmile:) you would still have d8 damage, your speed wouldn't suffer since Whisper Gnomes retain 30 ft movement speed and your stealth would be greatly boosted which is nice if you planned on sniping your enemies.

Hope any of this helped.

Talic
2008-09-09, 04:13 AM
Meh, I'm all for halfling, with a 1 level dip into Halfling rogue (Racial substitution). With that, you'll get a bit more damage (+2d6 sneak attack with slings and thrown weapons). Most combats occur at reasonable ranges, so it's quite possible to get the benefits of this regularly. There is a movement penalty for halfling, but you still get competitive stealth bonuses (+4 size for hide, +2 racial move silent), along with a +1 to all saves, to offset the low bonuses.

This will get your Dex up to 16, which is good, and throw an additional +1 to hit for size. From there, level boosts into dex primarily.

Lord Denyuar
2008-09-09, 10:16 AM
Meh, I'm all for halfling, with a 1 level dip into Halfling rogue (Racial substitution). With that, you'll get a bit more damage (+2d6 sneak attack with slings and thrown weapons). Most combats occur at reasonable ranges, so it's quite possible to get the benefits of this regularly. There is a movement penalty for halfling, but you still get competitive stealth bonuses (+4 size for hide, +2 racial move silent), along with a +1 to all saves, to offset the low bonuses.

This will get your Dex up to 16, which is good, and throw an additional +1 to hit for size. From there, level boosts into dex primarily.

I thought sneak attack could only happen within 30'. Am I wrong?

MeklorIlavator
2008-09-09, 03:58 PM
I thought sneak attack could only happen within 30'. Am I wrong?

Nope, but I could get within 30' for the attack easily enough. Of course, the +2d6 would only work if I used thrown weapons, and I would rather use a bow for this. Thus, no rogue dip.

In any case, I think Halfling is my best core choice here: the str penalty isn't as bad if I get reduced weights on most objects. I'm gonna ask for whisper gnome, though.

Also, I can't have both Str and dex boosting items as they take the same slot (and would be 8k out of the 10 I have, and with this str score I need a HHH), so I think I'll put my first score in STR and then leave it. A dex booster does make sense, but I wonder what to do with the remaining 5,500. Any good ideas? At this point I'm thinking one of the skill boosters(boots of elvenkind or eyes of the eagle), but beyond that, I'm stuck. Perhaps a magic weapon? Of course, right now that would overlap with metaphysical weapon.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-09, 04:05 PM
Masterwork Tools, of course.

Triaxx
2008-09-09, 08:45 PM
I have to suggest Wood Elf. (+2 STR +2 DEX -2 CON -2 INT) Since you are a sniper, you can afford to loose the Con if you make it the eleven, and then raise it at four for no negative modifier.

MeklorIlavator
2008-09-09, 09:27 PM
I have to suggest Wood Elf. (+2 STR +2 DEX -2 CON -2 INT) Since you are a sniper, you can afford to loose the Con if you make it the eleven, and then raise it at four for no negative modifier.

That doesn't really give me anything, however. Sure, +1 damage, but that really shouldn't matter in the long run, and it would make me easier to his, have a lower AB and have lower skills.

bigbaddragon
2008-09-10, 02:54 AM
Also, I can't have both Str and dex boosting items as they take the same slot (and would be 8k out of the 10 I have, and with this str score I need a HHH), so I think I'll put my first score in STR and then leave it.

Those items don't have to take the same slot. For example you could have DEX bonus on your boots/gloves/bracers and STR bonus on your belt, just work with your DM on that. The reason why I suggested both STR and DEX boosting items is so you can use a +1 STR item to fix your STR penalty (assuming that you put 11 into STR) and avoid putting ability bonuses into STR, plus you could then put 4th level ability point into DEX and with +1 DEX boosting item you would be at 18 DEX at 4th level.

The DMG lists only even number bonuses for ability boosting items, but the rules say the cost for creating is (bonus squared) x 1000gp so those two items would cost you mere 2000. Although odd-numbered bonuses aren't listed in the book they are quite reasonable (at least to everyone I've gamed with) and make things easier for the players so you should also check this with you DM.

For the items:
- Everlasting Rations, never buy trail rations again (MIC, 350 gp or something like that)
- Everfull Mug, never be thirsty again (MIC)
- Skill boosting items (hide, move silently, spot listen)
- Augment Crystals (MIC, lesser energy assault crystal; this one can only be attached to +1 weapon so it will most likely be to expensive overall at the moment but you can save some money and purchase it level or two later)
- Mithral chainshirt +1 (no ACP, +4 AC, +6 max dex, 2100 or 2150 gp)
- Cloak of Resistance +1
- Scout's Headband, has charges that can be used to detect invisible foes (MIC)
- Antitoxin
- Alchemist fire, acid flasks

Talic
2008-09-10, 04:01 AM
Nope, but I could get within 30' for the attack easily enough. Of course, the +2d6 would only work if I used thrown weapons, and I would rather use a bow for this. Thus, no rogue dip.

In any case, I think Halfling is my best core choice here: the str penalty isn't as bad if I get reduced weights on most objects. I'm gonna ask for whisper gnome, though.

Also, I can't have both Str and dex boosting items as they take the same slot (and would be 8k out of the 10 I have, and with this str score I need a HHH), so I think I'll put my first score in STR and then leave it. A dex booster does make sense, but I wonder what to do with the remaining 5,500. Any good ideas? At this point I'm thinking one of the skill boosters(boots of elvenkind or eyes of the eagle), but beyond that, I'm stuck. Perhaps a magic weapon? Of course, right now that would overlap with metaphysical weapon.

If range is the issue, halfling rogue sub can also use slings, which are launched weapons, and get the bonus, while having a bit of extra range. From there, if really necessary, you could always go for far shot, and get 100' range increments.

LemonSkye
2008-09-10, 05:56 AM
Looking at the Hunter class, I'm not sure putting all of your points into Dex will help you in the long run. The class seems to run off of Wis, and if you pick up Zen Archery (Complete Warrior), you'll have all of your class abilities running off of one stat. If you're not familiar with the feat, it allows you to substitute Wis for Dex on your ranged attacks. If you want to pick up a level of something stealthy, I'd say Scout's a better choice. They're built for ranged combat, unlike the rogue, and have a better hit die to boot.

jcsw
2008-09-10, 06:47 AM
Spend some money on five or six spell or power storing arrows?

Triaxx
2008-09-10, 07:34 AM
HP is not all it's cracked up to be, and given the nature of this character as a sniper, it's not really needed. STR gives damage if you're using a composite bow.

Skills? As a sniper, you need move silently and hide. Boots and Cloak of Elvenkind give you that. As an elf you get a +2 on Search, Spot and Listen. All important for seeing and shooting first. Plus all the things that being Psionic grants. So you're only loosing a bit of skills on a character that doesn't need to rely on them.

MeklorIlavator
2008-09-10, 11:43 AM
If range is the issue, halfling rogue sub can also use slings, which are launched weapons, and get the bonus, while having a bit of extra range. From there, if really necessary, you could always go for far shot, and get 100' range increments.

Slings, however, take a move action to reload, so are pretty much incompatible with the Strafe ability. It's a good idea, and if I was gonna go more for thrown weapons I would definitely look into it, but at this point I want a more traditional archer.


Looking at the Hunter class, I'm not sure putting all of your points into Dex will help you in the long run. The class seems to run off of Wis, and if you pick up Zen Archery (Complete Warrior), you'll have all of your class abilities running off of one stat. If you're not familiar with the feat, it allows you to substitute Wis for Dex on your ranged attacks. If you want to pick up a level of something stealthy, I'd say Scout's a better choice. They're built for ranged combat, unlike the rogue, and have a better hit die to boot.
I know the feat, but what it doesn't let you do is use Wis for feat prerequisites, so it's of limited usefulness unless you have a high enough dex to easily qualify for the other feats, and high stats are something this character lacks. Plus, it only needs wisdom a bit more than Rangers do.



HP is not all it's cracked up to be, and given the nature of this character as a sniper, it's not really needed. STR gives damage if you're using a composite bow.

Yes, damage is nice, but +1 damage isn't that great, especially since this is a precision damage character, so I'll get more damage from the extra dice. Plus, it would give me -1 to attack, AC, and saves.



Skills? As a sniper, you need move silently and hide. Boots and Cloak of Elvenkind give you that. As an elf you get a +2 on Search, Spot and Listen. All important for seeing and shooting first. Plus all the things that being Psionic grants. So you're only loosing a bit of skills on a character that doesn't need to rely on them.
Actually, this class should have Spot, Listen, MS, Hide, and Survival. But that's besides the point. Halfling gives me +2 to MS and Listen and +4 to hide(all key abilities) in addition to +2 to jump and climp, which could be nice to have. Also, what, pray tell, does being psionic give me?


Those items don't have to take the same slot. For example you could have DEX bonus on your boots/gloves/bracers and STR bonus on your belt, just work with your DM on that. The reason why I suggested both STR and DEX boosting items is so you can use a +1 STR item to fix your STR penalty (assuming that you put 11 into STR) and avoid putting ability bonuses into STR, plus you could then put 4th level ability point into DEX and with +1 DEX boosting item you would be at 18 DEX at 4th level.

The DMG lists only even number bonuses for ability boosting items, but the rules say the cost for creating is (bonus squared) x 1000gp so those two items would cost you mere 2000. Although odd-numbered bonuses aren't listed in the book they are quite reasonable (at least to everyone I've gamed with) and make things easier for the players so you should also check this with you DM.
I'm a bit nervous using the item creation rules as they usually are considered badly thought out. Plus, it feels that one's taking advantage of the rules. I'll bring it up, but I'm not hopeful.


For the items:
- Everlasting Rations, never buy trail rations again (MIC, 350 gp or something like that)
- Everfull Mug, never be thirsty again (MIC)
- Skill boosting items (hide, move silently, spot listen)
- Augment Crystals (MIC, lesser energy assault crystal; this one can only be attached to +1 weapon so it will most likely be to expensive overall at the moment but you can save some money and purchase it level or two later)
- Mithral chainshirt +1 (no ACP, +4 AC, +6 max dex, 2100 or 2150 gp)
- Cloak of Resistance +1
- Scout's Headband, has charges that can be used to detect invisible foes (MIC)
- Antitoxin
- Alchemist fire, acid flasks
Unfortunately, I don't have the MIC, thought I remember that it does have some good options.