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Phantom.exe
2008-09-09, 12:15 AM
Hey. I just started playing Warmachine, this great little tabletop game from Privateer Press. It's a load of fun, and I was just so intrigued with the so-called "full-metal fantasy" setting.

I looked it up, and it has, as you may know, a companion game, called Hordes.
Both take place in a great setting,g the eponymous "Iron Kingdoms."

It's a really unique, interesting setting. A darker, much less magical Eberron. In Eberron, technology advanced though magic. In the real world, technology advanced without fictional magic.

In the Iron Kingdoms, the realms of men advanced to late Renaissance-era technology alongside low-power magic.

It's really, very interesting. I guess Privateer Press started out by making this "Witchfire Trilogy" campaign, as well as the other campaign-related books. It's really awesome.

Anyway, has anyone else heard or read about it? I can't find the books at a decent price anywhere, even though I heard some amazing things about it.

Furthermore, how many people would be interested in a campaign in this setting?

Attilargh
2008-09-09, 01:18 AM
All you need to know about Iron Kingdoms (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IronKingdoms).

It truly is an awesome setting. The book you need is the Iron Kingdoms Character Guide, which is, I've understood, out of print and thus filthy expensive. Another sweet, really useful book is the Iron Kingdoms Campaign Guide, which is in the same bind as the CG.

However. While the Warmachine rules are sweet, fast and uncomplicated, I don't think any of the desginers worked on the Iron Kingdoms. Many of the rules are either pointlessly fiddly, dubiously balanced, or both. As many people on this board have probably already noticed, my favourites are the gun rules. I'll be brief:
They cost a ton.
They take a long while to reload.
They are fiddly to reload.
They get outperformed by bows.
They are Exotic.
Now, to me this don't exactly sound like the gun rules of a setting where gorram near everyone and their dog is packin' a piece. :smallannoyed:

only1doug
2008-09-09, 03:58 AM
All you need to know about Iron Kingdoms (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IronKingdoms).

It truly is an awesome setting. The book you need is the Iron Kingdoms Character Guide, which is, I've understood, out of print and thus filthy expensive. Another sweet, really useful book is the Iron Kingdoms Campaign Guide, which is in the same bind as the CG.

However. While the Warmachine rules are sweet, fast and uncomplicated, I don't think any of the desginers worked on the Iron Kingdoms. Many of the rules are either pointlessly fiddly, dubiously balanced, or both. As many people on this board have probably already noticed, my favourites are the gun rules. I'll be brief:
They cost a ton.
They take a long while to reload.
They are fiddly to reload.
They get outperformed by bows.
They are Exotic.
Now, to me this don't exactly sound like the gun rules of a setting where gorram near everyone and their dog is packin' a piece. :smallannoyed:

Seconded; Brilliant setting.

More on Guns:
Firing a gun costs you a fortune (gunpowder is expensive)
Some guns act as a focus for magic
magic wielding gunslingers are scary


steampunk setting:
magic and technology are fused together, some items work just by magic, others just by technology but the very best of items are use both to work.

Randalor
2008-09-09, 10:34 AM
For the guns, yes they're expensive, and yes they require training before use, but because of the way the range modifiers are set, and the enhancements you can build for the guns... it's entirly possible to have a rifleman shooting into combat when he isn't close enough to be on the map. If I recall correctly, the absolute maximum range you can get is 400 yards.

Also, guns get better when you factor in things like the gunmages, who get to use their guns to enhance the range, or scibe the bullets with their spells.

Edit: As for the books, they're now out of print, and PP has pretty much discontinued support for it. It's a shame *except for those who have the books >_>*, because it was one of the better settings, IMO.

nightwyrm
2008-09-09, 11:20 AM
But the bullets are so..so expensive. I feel like I was throwing money at the enemies. My gunmage was basically a bum with a "will work for bullets" sign.

I think you can still find pdfs of the character guide on the net.

only1doug
2008-09-10, 05:13 AM
But the bullets are so..so expensive. I feel like I was throwing money at the enemies. My gunmage was basically a bum with a "will work for bullets" sign.

I think you can still find pdfs of the character guide on the net.

I remember thinking it would be cheaper to enchant gold coins and fire them from a sling than to use a gun.

Attilargh
2008-09-10, 05:45 AM
it's entirly possible to have a rifleman shooting into combat when he isn't close enough to be on the map.
I don't know about you, but I don't feel allowing one character build to engage enemies without fear of retribution doesn't scream "great game design" to me.

Also, I'm pretty sure however many healing potions the frontliners have to chug or donations they have to make to the nearest church, it'll still be less expensive, fiddly and inefficient than owning and using a rifle. :smalltongue:


Also, guns get better when you factor in things like the gunmages, who get to use their guns to enhance the range, or scibe the bullets with their spells.
Funny you should mention them, for I have vocal opinions on some of their rules as well.

For example, the scribing bullets thing. Now, it's a cool mechanic, I give you that, but whose bright idea was it to have the process cause a -2 eyestrain penalty to all attacks for one hour? Even if the party wizard studies under the moonlight on an overcast night, he doesn't get eyestrain. Furthermore, when will this mechanic ever even come to play? How many enemies do characters face on their downtime in the same hour the gunmage has been doing some arts and crafts? I know there are some wacky rules in 3.5, but this one ranks around lava damage in its uselessness.

Or hey, how about that "channeling spells through their guns" thing? Yeah, the one that eats away at the hardness of the gun. Who in the world keeps track of their equipment's hardness, anyway? But okay, maybe the PP guys like to Sunder or something. It still means that unless an army has enough magelock firearms to distribute to all of their gunmages, their monthly wages have to be paid in gold bullion.

Leon
2008-09-10, 09:12 AM
Furthermore, how many people would be interested in a campaign in this setting?

I'd Love too

Tis Funny all the wailing and moaning about small arms, the price of things, the mechanics etc.
If for your game you don't like the way it is, change them to something that suits.
I have no problem with how it works, for my game the price of bullets is on the low cost suggested, I've let the Gun Mage start with a small pistol (Because of what he's a member of) and they've also found another.

While there may be a few items that don't sit well with some people there is much much more to the great setting and plenty work with

Phantom.exe
2008-09-10, 11:41 PM
Well... when you get down to it, bullets are a luxury for a reason. Think about it; who, in Immoren world, seems to be using the most bullets? The military.

While the oh-so-awesome Witchfire Trilogy does not usually involve the characters in the employ of, say, Cygnar, it does involve them working in places where they could buy bullets.

As far as the many, many, many rules go... some are good, some aren't. For example, it helps to contribute to the setting when the developers give stringent rules for resurrecting comrades. Maybe the gun mage rules are a bit stingy... so what?
Why can't a forgiving DM say, "Hey, ignore that."

However, yes, the fact that they are there is a problem. But, at the same time, sometimes people just like writing rules. They might be cumbersome, but you're on a roll, and you think these are good, tasty ideas.

Then you realize they aren't.

nightwyrm
2008-09-11, 01:12 AM
I remember thinking it would be cheaper to enchant gold coins and fire them from a sling than to use a gun.

I was reminded of certain video games where you threw coins at enemies to damage them and then your gp count would decrease by an amount equal to the damage dealt.

Leon
2008-09-11, 05:17 AM
I remember thinking it would be cheaper to enchant gold coins and fire them from a sling than to use a gun.

The Gear Bow, uses clockwork gears for ammo and with a clockwork mechanism can keep firing for 10 shots
There is also a wrist version that is smaller and shoots less shots but can be dual wielded
I think its cost is 10 gears for a 1gp

Pendragonx
2008-09-11, 09:57 PM
funny this thread comes up.. I just got my copy of Liber Mechanika in the mail today.. I found the very last copy in the area's Barnes&Noble .. had it shipped from New Hampshire right to my door! I've now collected all of the out-of-print books .. it's definitely a very awesome setting.. it's even got 'sword-guns' :smallbiggrin:

Phantom.exe
2008-09-13, 09:09 AM
Ach. The only place I can even find the books now is to dive into the annals of the older gaming stores in town.

They've got 'em, yeah, but they're nuzzled between copies of the eternally-unfinished Farscape RPG.

Randalor
2008-09-13, 10:03 PM
I don't know about you, but I don't feel allowing one character build to engage enemies without fear of retribution doesn't scream "great game design" to me.

I'm... biting my tounge on the whole "Wizards in general" thing. It would really only be an advantage in situations where you have an ambush planned, but just felt like mentioning it.

Funny you should mention them, for I have vocal opinions on some of their rules as well.


For example, the scribing bullets thing. Now, it's a cool mechanic, I give you that, but whose bright idea was it to have the process cause a -2 eyestrain penalty to all attacks for one hour? Even if the party wizard studies under the moonlight on an overcast night, he doesn't get eyestrain. Furthermore, when will this mechanic ever even come to play? How many enemies do characters face on their downtime in the same hour the gunmage has been doing some arts and crafts? I know there are some wacky rules in 3.5, but this one ranks around lava damage in its uselessness.

To be fair, it does seem a bit unreasonable and may only come into play once in a session, but it does make some sense. After all, you're writting out a magic formula that can take several pages in a book... onto a single shell casing.


Or hey, how about that "channeling spells through their guns" thing? Yeah, the one that eats away at the hardness of the gun. Who in the world keeps track of their equipment's hardness, anyway? But okay, maybe the PP guys like to Sunder or something. It still means that unless an army has enough magelock firearms to distribute to all of their gunmages, their monthly wages have to be paid in gold bullion.

Eh, true on the hardness bit, but that could just be to make the usage of it rarer early on.

Cygnar has entire acadamies dedicated to teaching Gunmages. Three guesses on what the graduation gift is :smalltongue:

But yeah, the magelock pistols are supposed to be rare and hard to get ahold of, but that's more along the lines of why automatic weapons are hard to get ahold of. And note that there are both pistols and rifles, and they never specify what the metal used to make the magelock weapons are.